Brawling/Shield/Dodge vs Runestaff

[Darcthundar]

Just a silly question to see if anyone has an answer.

In the post capped sorc, when does the runestaff out DS the brawling/shield/dodge sorc?

My best guess is somewhere around 23 - 25 mil in experience. But that is only my best guess

Anyone have a better guess?

Thanks

[crb]

This is the first I've ever heard of a brawling/shield/dodge sorc

Generally, for a pure, the best shield is going to be a tower shield, but tower shield use means you get the least DS from dodge ranks.

People who get the most DS from dodge ranks are those who use no shields... like runestaff users.

[Morph]

I do runestaff+dodge and like it, but I haven't done any real tests with anyone.

[Darcthundar]

Perhaps if we posted some numbers for comparison. I realize this is not the most scientific approach, with people training in different spell training, character states and just overall skill training. However, if there is a rather significant difference, then maybe tests can be done.

With about 20 spell levels yet to learn, self spellup and 4x shield and armor, I can muster just over 650 DS in guarded. And with my style of hunting I am also very comfortable with my build

[Morph]

Perhaps if we posted some numbers for comparison. I realize this is not the most scientific approach, with people training in different spell training, character states and just overall skill training. However, if there is a rather significant difference, then maybe tests can be done.

With about 20 spell levels yet to learn, self spellup and 4x shield and armor, I can muster just over 650 DS in guarded. And with my style of hunting I am also very comfortable with my build

Well I have my own empath and wizard, so I usually give myself thurfels, blurs, strength and dims, in addition to my spells. In the temple my guarded DS like this is 766 (866 with walls), but I have 8x armor, 10x DB, and a 4x runestaff. Also, I only have 85 ranks of dodging so far.

I'm surprised your DS is 650 with just 4x gear and your own spells, unless you are counting walls. Siphere and I did some testing a while back when I only had like 40 ranks of dodging, and with him using a 9x shield, 8x armor and the same spells as me, and our DS's were close enough that I decided not to switch to shield. Also, I took off my DB for those tests.

[Fallen]

No point in testing DS of the builds in guarded. Test in Offensive. That's where the DS advantage of shield/Brawl shines, and that is where you're going to end up in high levels...probably prone in heavy RT.

[Morph]

if you're on teras we can do some real tests.

[crb]

Well I have my own empath and wizard, so I usually give myself thurfels, blurs, strength and dims, in addition to my spells. In the temple my guarded DS like this is 766 (866 with walls), but I have 8x armor, 10x DB, and a 4x runestaff. Also, I only have 85 ranks of dodging so far.

I'm surprised your DS is 650 with just 4x gear and your own spells, unless you are counting walls. Siphere and I did some testing a while back when I only had like 40 ranks of dodging, and with him using a 9x shield, 8x armor and the same spells as me, and our DS's were close enough that I decided not to switch to shield. Also, I took off my DB for those tests.

Slacker. Only 85 ranks of dodging, sheesh, try harder!

[Asrial]

What armor is the average one used by a sorcerer? Until I get a better answer I'll assume full leather.

Data post incoming...

[Fallen]

What armor is the average one used by a sorcerer? Until I get a better answer I'll assume full leather.

Data post incoming...

Brig!

Yeah, probably Full leathers, followed closely by doubles, then either robes or LBP.

[Morph]

I use doubles

[Asrial]

SHIELD: 0x SMALL shield (the best for this situation)
ARMOR: 0x FULL LEATHER
WEAPON: fist
RUNESTAFF: 0x

AGILITY BONUS: 40
INTUITION BONUS: 25
STRENGTH BONUS: 25
DEXTERITY BONUS: 30

OFFENSIVE MELEE DS: 137 (shield/dodge) + 22 (brawling)
OFFENSIVE RANGED DS: 190 (shield/dodge) + 0 (brawling)

TOTAL MELEE DS: 159 (see below; 161 with runestaff)

GUARDED MELEE DS: 225 (shield/dodge) + 68 (brawling)
GUARDED RANGED DS: 258 (shield/dodge) + 0 (brawling)

TOTAL MELEE DS: 293 (see below; 334 with runestaff)

.

Here's data for dodge WITHOUT a shield (so that it can be combined with runestaff DS)...

OFFENSIVE MELEE DS: 110 (dodge)
OFFENSIVE RANGED DS: 165 (dodge)

GUARDED MELEE DS: 179 (dodge)
GUARDED RANGED DS: 249 (dodge)

.

..and finally.. some runestaff DS..

OFFENSIVE MELEE DS @ 15 RANKS PER LEVEL: 51
GUARDED MELEE DS @ 15 RANKS PER LEVEL: 155

[Darcthundar]

I'm surprised your DS is 650 with just 4x gear and your own spells, unless you are counting walls. Siphere and I did some testing a while back when I only had like 40 ranks of dodging, and with him using a 9x shield, 8x armor and the same spells as me, and our DS's were close enough that I decided not to switch to shield. Also, I took off my DB for those tests.

Nope, I do not use walls or have any DB items, just the standard sorc spells. I did forget to mention the 650 DS does include CoL signs.

At the time of your testing did Siphere also have any ranks in dodging?

BTW, I use double leathers to hunt in. I need the head and neck protection.

[Morph]

My 766 also includes COL signs, and Siphere did not have any ranks in dodging. Which CM skills do you have? If your DS really is that high with just 4x gear then I should prolly change to shield, which is so boring :(. If I take away all my fancy stuff then I'm basically just at 650 also, and dodging is a lot more expensive than shield + brawl.

[Darcthundar]

Siphere and I did some testing a while back when I only had like 40 ranks of dodging, and with him using a 9x shield, 8x armor and the same spells as me, and our DS's were close enough that I decided not to switch to shield. Also, I took off my DB for those tests.

I think I see the problem here. This is about brawling/shield/dodge, and I do have training in dodging.

However, if you and Siphere had roughly the same amount of DS with your 40 trains of dodging, then if you both had 100 trains in dodging, Siphere would have about 50 additional DS then you (possibly a little more or a little less since this is only a SWAG and depending how close your DS' were). The question is, is will 3000 tp's placed in magical skills make up for the additional DS. And the second and most important question as pointed out by Fallen, how big will the DS difference be in offense and prone.

[Fallen]

And the second and most important question as pointed out by Fallen, how big will the DS difference be in offense and prone.

Being prone wont create a difference between the two training styles, it just drops you by a flat 50 (I believe). Being disarmed certainly makes a difference, though. You CAN get disarm training, and I suppose if you're already talking about 1x dodge, you certainly will have enough points to consider 1x CM as well. Between Rank 5 of Disarm and rank 5 of CDefense, it should just about require an open roll for it to take place. Open rolls DO happen, though.

[Morph]

How much dodging do you have?

[Asrial]

The question is, is will 3000 tp's placed in magical skills make up for the additional DS.The answer is in my post. If the wall of numbers is too much.. the TLDR version is...

"If you get your ranks per level to 15."

[Fallen]

How much dodging do you have?

Me? None. That shit is a waste of TPs.