Potential haste nerf thread

[Drew]

Just to get it out of the GM posts thread. As of now Izzea has effectively quashed all debate.

[BriarFox]

All I have to say is that I wish they'd focus on making new things, not nerfing old things.

[Donquix]

BUT WARMAGES ARE RUINING MY TREAURESSZONEONEeleven!!One!

[Shattered Dreamer]

It's called personal vendetta by a current GM.

[IorakeWarhammer]

it's called monks will be OP with the current haste

[IorakeWarhammer]

love the quote btw

[Methais]

it's called monks will be OP with the current haste

If you read the thread you'd realize that they were mainly referring to self cast haste along with the ridiculous claim that warmages are insanely OP because of haste, then went on to claim that it ruins others' enjoyment of the game because they apparently rape so hard with 0 risk and 0 sacrifice that it ruins the treasure in the area.

Nevermind the fact that pure wizards are still better than warmages. Or the fact that I rape the shit out of Temple Nelemar as a pure wizard, usually the only capped wizard on Teras, and yet the treasure still sucks ant balls.

Conclusion: Other classes are hunting Nelemar, and it's ruining my enjoyment because they're making the treasure shitty.

Solution: Nerf all other classes so that I'll be the only one hunting Nelemar and can keep all the phat loot for myself.

[audioserf]

Some GM's PC probably got their shit pushed in by a warmage and boom, Haste on the chopping block.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Conclusion: Other classes are hunting Nelemar, and it's ruining my enjoyment because they're making the treasure shitty.

Solution: Nerf all other classes so that I'll be the only one hunting Nelemar and can keep all the phat loot for myself.

You'd just be told to hunt elsewhere!

(PS The treasure is shitty there too.)

[Sam]

Some GM's PC probably got their shit pushed in by a warmage and boom, Haste on the chopping block.

Haha. I always wonder how big of a motivating factor that is in "balancing" the game.

[Ceyrin]

Frankly I think it's all about Naos not wanting everyone to think his elore review is as useless as alchemy was/is... so nerfing all other wizard builds is the best way to achieve that.

[Methais]

You lightly tap Gnimble on the shoulder.

Gnimble says, "Wut."

You ask, "Wanna see me ruin treasure?"

You say, "Watch this..."

You recite a series of mystical phrases while raising your hands, invoking Haste...
Your spell is ready.

You gesture.
You begin to notice the world slow down around you. Strange.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)

[ Haste: +0:01:07, 0:01:07 remaining. ]

You nod to Gnimble.

Gnimble wildly flails his arms about, momentarily obscuring himself in a cloud of volcanic soot and ash.

Gnimble wildly flails his arms about, momentarily obscuring himself in a cloud of volcanic soot and ash.

Gnimble wildly flails his arms about, momentarily obscuring himself in a cloud of volcanic soot and ash.

Gnimble exclaims, "WHY DO YOU HATE TREASURE?!"

[HouseofElves]

So no one actively complained about class/path balance? It was just casually brought up like "btw, we're considering nerfing haste, enjoy"?

[Fallen]

You lightly tap Gnimble on the shoulder.

Gnimble says, "Wut."

You ask, "Wanna see me ruin treasure?"

You say, "Watch this..."

You recite a series of mystical phrases while raising your hands, invoking Haste...
Your spell is ready.

You gesture.
You begin to notice the world slow down around you. Strange.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)

[ Haste: +0:01:07, 0:01:07 remaining. ]

You nod to Gnimble.

Gnimble wildly flails his arms about, momentarily obscuring himself in a cloud of volcanic soot and ash.

Gnimble wildly flails his arms about, momentarily obscuring himself in a cloud of volcanic soot and ash.

Gnimble wildly flails his arms about, momentarily obscuring himself in a cloud of volcanic soot and ash.

Gnimble exclaims, "WHY DO YOU HATE TREASURE?!"

Hahahahaha.

[Fallen]

So no one actively complained about class/path balance? It was just casually brought up like "btw, we're considering nerfing haste, enjoy"?

Oscuro popped in a thread discussing haste and warwizards to add his .02 about how he thinks warwizards are OP. Many pointed out that as the guru of the most OP profession, perhaps he shouldn't throw stones.

[Methais]

This was both the funniest and most sad part of the thread:


>>nothing a warmage does detracts from the fun of any other player


Unbalanced characters most certainly do detract from the fun of others, albeit often indirectly. One example: When a character is far more adept at killing creatures without risk, then they skew the treasure results of creatures. Hard creatures will produce higher rewards, but if these creatures become trivial for some, it reduces their treasure output, making those creatures pointless to attempt for people who are not as skilled as the risk vastly outweighs the now piddly reward.

This one is definitely Worf worthy:
http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/facepalm.gif

[Swami71]

So would tonis be nerfed soon after? Or is Tonis okay since its only 3 seconds and costs more mana?

MAers skew the treasure system plenty already I would think.

[Methais]

MAers skew the treasure system plenty already I would think.

The whole MA thing was brought up too and things shifted towards something like "Ok, what about just making Haste self cast then?" and Oscuro was still waving his nerf bat around saying that warmages are severely OP and will be the cause of both the GS and real life apocalypse.

[AMUSED1]

<< RIMALON's post about general spell changes versus lore review changes. >>

I just spent way more time than I ever wanted to reading every post I've ever made about elemental spell- and lore-related topics. I have learned that I used to be a much happier, and nicer GameMaster. :l

While I didn't find anything along the lines of only lore benefits being adjusted as part of the lore review, I'm not doubting I said something to that effect. The meaning of such a statement would be "the purpose Elemental Lore Review is to review the benefits of elemental lore skills for elemental spells rather than doing a top-to-bottom in-depth review of every existing elemental spell." This doesn't imply that spells can not or will not be closely reviewed while the lore review is in progress.

The fact that I mentioned that changes may be on the horizon, and they may find their way into the game alongside the lore review doesn't mean anything other than it would be a convenient time to release changes to spells while changes to other spells were also being released.

Also, what makes you think that thees potential changes to Haste or Immolation aren't strictly related to the lore benefits?

--
Naos

I'm immune to fire! Now with more banhammer! You sense the bond between you and your grey cat grow stronger.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=31&topic=11&message=8684

[Methais]

Also, what makes you think that thees potential changes to Haste or Immolation aren't strictly related to the lore benefits?

One reason for Immolate, and it's really the only reason you need, is that the spell is pathetically terrible without lore. If it cost 5 mana like Bone Shatter or something, then it might be ok. But for 19 mana, it's fucking terrible without tons of fire lore.

There was a post somewhere in that thread where Naos said something like "Btw, immolate is WAY too good. Take that as you will."

This is a complete bullshit statement. I have 202 fire lore, and yeah I do rape shit pretty hard with it, but even factoring in mana leech, the high mana cost of the spell alone keeps it in check.

Bone Shatter with lore isn't really much different than Immolate as far as killing power, yet it only costs 1/4 as much mana, and apparently no GMs think it's OP at all.

I don't have a problem with Bone Shatter being as strong as it is. What I do have a problem with are these retard GMs saying Immolate is OP but Bone Shatter is fine, when Bone Shatter is even more OP than Immolate in almost every case except maybe when used against trolls, which that's an issue with trolls and not the spell itself.

I really don't understand what Oscuro and Naos' problem is with Haste and Immolate. Unless they're just big fags or something.

[Fallen]

>Also, what makes you think that thees potential changes to Haste or Immolation aren't strictly related to the lore benefits?

Tweaking these is all it would take to nerf the two spells.

[audioserf]

Do what I'm doing, folks. Roll a pure-caster empath and wait out the Haste changes. I'm not dumping more man-hours into my warmage without knowing what's going to happen. Time to abuse the shit out of dwarven spirit regen/wracking/1106.

[Silvanostar]

link to officials please?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

LOL, haste before it's current incarnation was OP, I'll give him that.

Haste is really only super beneficial for higher level mages (war mages I mean), isn't it? At lower levels you didn't have the mana, and mid range IIRC your AS wasn't scaled enough yet.

Make it self cast only and that'd fix a lot of things, IMO. MAs who run around with a slave mage casting ewave/haste like I used to do, wreck shit.

[Silvanostar]

no, haste is beneficial at all levels. low level warmages especially since you only need mana to upkeep society stuff and haste.

[audioserf]

Yeah I hunted perma-hasted from level 6 on.

[AnticorRifling]

So who's the mage in question that's ruining it for everyone?

Obviously I wasn't capped but when I went to the keen/skull temple in my 60s I could stay out picking up boxes until my round time with my godendag was a hasted 7 seconds, hell even then I could keep trucking killing with 415 and I had .0000001% chance of something bad happening.

[Jace Solo]

I've heard of other mages who keep haste up for defensive reasons. If they get maneuvered or stuck in RT those couple seconds usually make or break your survival chance.

Still not OP, just part of the class. If you're a warmage you're a little better protected from cmans cause your probably pretty close to 1x but still not immune by any feat...even with tremors or weave stuff could still pose a problem.

Thank God there is some variety in it.

[Celephais]

I've heard of other mages who keep haste up for defensive reasons. If they get maneuvered or stuck in RT those couple seconds usually make or break your survival chance.

Still not OP, just part of the class. If you're a warmage you're a little better protected from cmans cause your probably pretty close to 1x but still not immune by any feat...even with tremors or weave stuff could still pose a problem.

Thank God there is some variety in it.

Mages have the worst spell hinerance, and consequently wear the weakest armor of all of the pures. I think being able to reduce some of the induced RT from maneuvers is part of the consolation. ... Maintaining haste is a pain in the ass though. (I ran it constantly for defensive purposes when running bandit tasks, I'd still get RT locked occasionally, but it helped).

[Methais]

So who's the mage in question that's ruining it for everyone?

That's the thing...there isn't one. It's nothing more than a straw man argument by a couple GMs who for whatever reason, have a hardon for haste/warmages.

I use haste for defensive purposes in Nelemar. It's saved my ass a lot from getting pwned after being disarmed or maneuvered. But since they're wanting to nerf immolate too, I'll be double fucked if they get their way, those cockmongers.

[Danical]

I had a claid warmage having 1 RT aimed strikes. I would aim for the leg (easy to aim for) and then aim for the head (much easier to aim for when the creature is proned). For creatures with low bolt AS but high melee DS, I could tonis bolt to prone. For creatures with high bolt AS and melee DS but low CS, I could eBlast (or eStrike) to prone. For creatures with all 3 high defenses, I would ewave. And feint for all three scenarios when needed, or disarm for a ridiculously high RT exchange (1 personal RT to possibly 20 imposed RT). I'd stack 4 minutes of rapid fire, then go hunt and cast the appropriate spells when needed and release if needed to.

It was just stupid good. However, 1030 > all mage builds. If I were to become GM, that's the first thing I would nerf because a semi shouldn't have the best CS spell in the game, let alone mass CS spell.

[Danical]

But since they're wanting to nerf immolate too, I'll be double fucked if they get their way, those cockmongers.

I'm almost certain they'll boost the baseline for the spell, and reduce the benefit for fire lore. I'm not sure you'll see a difference at cap with 202 fire lore.

At least, that's how I'd handle it if I was GM because having no fire lore makes 519 pretty stupid.

[Methais]

I'm almost certain they'll boost the baseline for the spell, and reduce the benefit for fire lore. I'm not sure you'll see a difference at cap with 202 fire lore.

At least, that's how I'd handle it if I was GM because having no fire lore makes 519 pretty stupid.

You also have to consider the fact that you're not a fucking retard like most of the GMs who blindly swing the nerf bat around all over the place though.

[Fallen]

I had a claid warmage having 1 RT aimed strikes. I would aim for the leg (easy to aim for) and then aim for the head (much easier to aim for when the creature is proned). For creatures with low bolt AS but high melee DS, I could tonis bolt to prone. For creatures with high bolt AS and melee DS but low CS, I could eBlast (or eStrike) to prone. For creatures with all 3 high defenses, I would ewave. And feint for all three scenarios when needed, or disarm for a ridiculously high RT exchange (1 personal RT to possibly 20 imposed RT). I'd stack 4 minutes of rapid fire, then go hunt and cast the appropriate spells when needed and release if needed to.

It was just stupid good. However, 1030 > all mage builds. If I were to become GM, that's the first thing I would nerf because a semi shouldn't have the best CS spell in the game, let alone mass CS spell.

Any time you cast a spell to set up the kill, that's 3 seconds of soft RT you have to wait out until you can swing, right? So that 4th second would be the kill shot from haste, but lets say that it takes you 2 shots on average to get the job done. So..5 second kills there.

>>I'd stack 4 minutes of rapid fire, then go hunt and cast the appropriate spells when needed and release if needed to.

Sounds like this is more of an abusive situation than anything else. I doubt too many would cry if RF wasn't stackable.

[Danical]

Any time you cast a spell to set up the kill, that's 3 seconds of soft RT you have to wait out until you can swing, right? So that 4th second would be the kill shot from haste, but lets say that it takes you 2 shots on average to get the job done. So..5 second kills there.

No. Zero RT for casting the spell a la Rapid Fire. 2 seconds. That's provided I even needed the setup.

[Methais]

No. Zero RT for casting the spell a la Rapid Fire. 2 seconds. That's provided I even needed the setup.

Incorrect.

>incant 410
You trace a simple rune while intoning the mystical phrase for Elemental Wave...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a jungle troll chieftain.
A wave of dark ethereal ripples moves outward from you.
A jungle troll chieftain is buffeted by the dark ethereal waves and is knocked to the ground.
[Spell re-prepared]
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
>att chief
Wait 2 seconds.

[Fallen]

Incorrect.

>incant 410
You trace a simple rune while intoning the mystical phrase for Elemental Wave...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a jungle troll chieftain.
A wave of dark ethereal ripples moves outward from you.
A jungle troll chieftain is buffeted by the dark ethereal waves and is knocked to the ground.
[Spell re-prepared]
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
>att chief
Wait 2 seconds.

Good stuff.

[Danical]

Incorrect.


Good stuff.

Still No. I cast it before getting to the hunting grounds. It reloads. I go hunt. I choose 1 of the 3 spells based on what I'm hunting. I don't switch between them. Otherwise, what's the point? I thought that was obvious. It does blow having to lose 3 seconds to re-up haste if I'm using 410.

Edit: Alternatively, the first cast in the hunting ground.
Edit2: Almost invariably, I use 410 since that seems to have the best success anyway.

[Fallen]

Still No. I cast it before getting to the hunting grounds. It reloads. I go hunt. I choose 1 of the 3 spells based on what I'm hunting. I don't switch between them. Otherwise, that's the point? I thought that was obvious. It does blow having to lose 3 seconds to re-up haste if I'm using 410.

Edit: Alternatively, the first cast in the hunting ground.
Edit2: Almost invariably, I use 410 since that seems to have the best success anyway.

So again, how does this point tp anything other than a RF problem? If you cast, you have a 4 sec min kill. If you use CM you have stamina limitations, and if you're aiming for limbs first, you're talking about multiple shots per kill. None of these equal one second kills. A pure caster will have better results. Seems like it is just a matter of making squares feel slow than kill rates.

Solution: Boost squares

[Jace Solo]

So again, the whole purpose is to slow the gringo time down...I like that idea of over clocking the system so square and hybrid weapon swing times come down. Then Haste probably wouldn't be so abused.

[Fallen]

So again, the whole purpose is to slow the gringo time down...I like that idea of over clocking the system so square and hybrid weapon swing times come down. Then Haste probably wouldn't be so abused.

If they think squares are killing at the right speed, then going after warmages instead of pure hunters is like sending the class retard to detention for running in the halls.

[Danical]

So again, how does this point tp anything other than a RF problem? If you cast, you have a 4 sec min kill. If you use CM you have stamina limitations, and if you're aiming for limbs first, you're talking about multiple shots per kill. None of these equal one second kills. A pure caster will have better results. Seems like it is just a matter of making squares feel slow than kill rates.

For the majority of the game, characters don't even need setup creatures. Similarly, depending on what you hunt, you don't even need to leg the creature first! You can just swing your beastly claid at the head of a creature, do a rank 1+, and let the weighting do the rest, and hope you don't get randomized to a rank 5 slash. Of course, you won't be hitting the head all the time without sufficient ambush/CM ranks.

The problem, I guess(?), when compared to pure casting is that you can't aim your spells. Even with Gnimble, I can go through 3 casts of 1030, all achieving a rank 9, but not hit a vital area so I won't kill the creature. I don't think there's anything that wrong with self-cast haste mages. They're fine.

Although, I do think Rapid Fire needs to be non-stackable, self-cast, and remove the 3 second soft RT to cast or after it's up for any new spell being cast. Just like I think it's super retarded to have 3 RT when casting 240; you're losing 10% of the spell duration just putting the spell up.

EDIT: The last thing you want to do when using a situational spell like 515 and 240 is wait to actually use the effect.

[Danical]

If they think squares are killing at the right speed, then going after warmages instead of pure hunters is like sending the class retard to detention for running in the halls.

I agree. I don't think comparing warmages to pures is a reasonable argument by any means. It's just play stupid. However, what the GMs seemed to be arguing is that pures aren't designed to swing (lulululululuz empaths) and that the haste mage breaks that paradigm? I do think that comparing haste mages to warriors and rogues paints a pretty sad picture, though. Squares need some love still before I'd want to play one over a haste mage. Mostly, I think it's an issue with melee combat. There's not reason to use an RT 2 or 4 weapon really when most of the 3, and 5+ ones are better and have the same ATTACK min RT breakpoints. Eh, I'd change a shitload about the melee system, actually.

[Methais]

Still No. I cast it before getting to the hunting grounds. It reloads. I go hunt. I choose 1 of the 3 spells based on what I'm hunting. I don't switch between them. Otherwise, what's the point? I thought that was obvious. It does blow having to lose 3 seconds to re-up haste if I'm using 410.

Edit: Alternatively, the first cast in the hunting ground.
Edit2: Almost invariably, I use 410 since that seems to have the best success anyway.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it looked like what you were saying is that if you cast ewave with rapid fire up, you don't have to wait out the cast rt before you can swing. I'll have to check that out when I get home cause I could swear that any rapid fire cast makes you wait out the cast rt unless you're casting that same spell again.

[Danical]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it looked like what you were saying is that if you cast ewave with rapid fire up, you don't have to wait out the cast rt before you can swing. I'll have to check that out when I get home cause I could swear that any rapid fire cast makes you wait out the cast rt unless you're casting that same spell again.

I thought that only happened after you cast the spell to "load" it, otherwise, how could you cast again if you have the soft RT generating? It's been since 2005 when I did this, so I could be wrong.

[Fallen]

I thought that only happened after you cast the spell to "load" it, otherwise, how could you cast again if you have the soft RT generating? It's been since 2005 when I did this, so I could be wrong.

You can't swing in soft rt, and you get pseudo soft rt from RF. No cast RT.

[Methais]

I thought that only happened after you cast the spell to "load" it, otherwise, how could you cast again if you have the soft RT generating? It's been since 2005 when I did this, so I could be wrong.

Rapid fire ignores cast RT only for the spell you're rapid fire casting. Everything else, you still have to wait it out, be it swinging, casting a different spell, fapping, etc.

[Danical]

You can't swing in soft rt, and you get pseudo soft rt from RF. No cast RT.

I know you can't swing in Soft RT. What's the diff between soft RT and cast RT, then? Honestly. Aren't they the same?


Rapid fire ignores cast RT only for the spell you're rapid fire casting. Everything else, you still have to wait it out, be it swinging, casting a different spell, fapping, etc.

Right. When you have the spell (in this case 410) "loaded" so you no longer get Cast/Soft RT, you don't have to wait it out. Correct?

[BigWorm]

I thought that only happened after you cast the spell to "load" it, otherwise, how could you cast again if you have the soft RT generating? It's been since 2005 when I did this, so I could be wrong.

Always get the soft RT. Basically just makes it so CAST ignores soft RT.


You recite a series of mystical phrases while raising your hands, invoking Rapid Fire...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture.
You feel the magic surge through you.
(Your next spell will be re-prepared upon its casting.)
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>
[ Rapid Fire: +0:01:00, 0:00:59 remaining. ]
>410
[voodoo]>incant 410
You trace a simple rune while intoning the mystical phrase for Elemental Wave...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a three-toed tegu.
A wave of dark ethereal ripples moves outward from you.
A three-toed tegu is buffeted by the dark ethereal waves and is knocked to the ground.
[Spell re-prepared]
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>cast
You gesture.
A wave of dark ethereal ripples moves outward from you.
[Spell re-prepared]
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>at
Wait 2 seconds.
>cast
You gesture.
A wave of dark ethereal ripples moves outward from you.
[Spell re-prepared]
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>at
Wait 2 seconds.
>

[ZeP]

Even on subsequent casts it gives you Cast Roundtime 3 seconds and won't let you swing. Although it would let you keep scrolling 410 it won't let you swing without the wait.

yeah, my post was way too slow.

[BigWorm]

CAST gives the RT, not PREP. And PREP doesn't ignore soft RT with rapidfire up which is why you have to wait it out.

[Danical]

God damnit, then I totally miss-remembered my warmage. Yeah, I'm not seeing a whole lot of upside to being a warmage over other profession/melee builds.

[Firestorm Killa]

If they think squares are killing at the right speed, then going after warmages instead of pure hunters is like sending the class retard to detention for running in the halls.

GMs comparing apples to oranges still?
Shocker.
I wonder if they will ever learn that nerfing the game mechanics is not a good business strategy?

[Durgrimst]

Solution: Boost squares

If I ever became a GM, I would let warriors 3x CMans or something, they should have the highest AS IG period.

[Fallen]

God damnit, then I totally miss-remembered my warmage. Yeah, I'm not seeing a whole lot of upside to being a warmage over other profession/melee builds.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Danical again."

[Firestorm Killa]

If I ever became a GM, I would let warriors 3x CMans or something, they should have the highest AS IG period.

By the time you become GM there will probably only be like 3 people playing still.

[TheLastShamurai]

God damnit, then I totally miss-remembered my warmage. Yeah, I'm not seeing a whole lot of upside to being a warmage over other profession/melee builds.

Style has to account for something, right!?

[Donquix]

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Danical again."

Got him for you!


Style has to account for something, right!?

it really does. my warrior isn't trained optimally but he's totally my most fun.

but my warmage is way more balacned and like the 2nd most fun...so yeah.

[Ceyrin]

This was both the funniest and most sad part of the thread:





This one is definitely Worf worthy:
http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/facepalm.gif

That was me... and it's called - "Give them plenty of rope"

[Methais]

Right. When you have the spell (in this case 410) "loaded" so you no longer get Cast/Soft RT, you don't have to wait it out. Correct?

Incorrect. The only thing you don't have to wait out the cast RT for is casting that same spell again. When you cast the spell, with or without rapid fire, you still get the soft RT/cast RT, which cast and soft RT are the same thing for the most part, except for stuff like quartz orbs, since you're not technically casting, but still get the soft RT but that's just semantics.

I'm guessing by "loaded" you mean having the spell already prepped and ready to go with rapid fire up, in which case the only thing that will ignore the cast RT is casting that same spell again.

So if you're running around with rapid fire stacked and ewaving the room, you still have to wait out the cast RT before you can do anything other than cast ewave again.

EDIT: Bah..


God damnit, then I totally miss-remembered my warmage. Yeah, I'm not seeing a whole lot of upside to being a warmage over other profession/melee builds.

Correct.

All that said, once I finish maxing out my spell ranks and then pick up pick/disarm again, I'm gonna work on 2H weapons + CM next. I fixskilled into it in May just before the next fixskills rolled around to try it out, picked up a claid and went pwning. It was fun, but my immolate build was still far superior in Nelemar. To be fair though, I was only using a 0x claidh from the shop. Pretty sure I was just using my self cast AS too, and there were plenty of times where my AS was just too low to hit some of the critters and I ended up having to bolt them down anyway.

Seems to me that Oscuro and Naos are looking at warmages under level 20 and judging the entire build and haste based on that. They're definitely not better than a pure wizard at cap, at least not without expensive gear and AS boosting items. Fun and viable? Sure. Overpowered? Not even close.

[Celephais]

Sounds like this is more of an abusive situation than anything else. I doubt too many would cry if RF wasn't stackable.

Hey. Fuck you.

[audioserf]

Making Haste self-cast would be plenty. As has been said, being a warmage isn't really advantageous, mechanically, once the low-level mana concerns are gone. It's insanely helpful at low levels because of that factor. My warmage is 46 and honestly, whenever I've gone bolt hunting (undead bounties), I've remarked at how quickly and more safely I am killing shit. I just find haste-swinging more fun, so I'm sticking with it. The idea of playing a pure mage never appealed to me, in GSIII or GSIV. Weapons are fun.

[Jace Solo]

Weapons are fun, I hate the idea of getting one disarmed and losing it forever though. Sold my +14 (+9 str bonus/1 Mana Regen) claid for that reason then went Pure. I love being pure, it owns.

I'd be sad if the made haste self only...I love giving it to rogues when I feel impatient or have a shit ton of boxes.

[Celephais]

I'd be sad if the made haste self only...I love giving it to rogues when I feel impatient or have a shit ton of boxes.

Agreed... it's also fun when I occasionally group with someone to be able to haste them. I really don't see it causing a massive issue, it's been in the game, nerfed as it was, for quite some time, not causing an unbalancing issue.

It's not like big MA crews wouldn't pump out haste amulets if it were just made self cast.

[audioserf]

I think the ideal fix is to not touch Haste, at all, because it's really not a problem in the big picture.

But the GMs have it up their ass to do something to the spell, and here we are. Waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Celephais]

But the GMs have it up their ass to do something

Do they? Have they said that? I thought discussion on the officials had stopped (I don't read the officials and didn't see any of the original leading up to this thread)

[audioserf]

It was stopped, but Naos said Haste is part of the Lore review (and it sure as shit isn't going to be an upgrade, right?)

[Fallen]

The haste nerf will likely make it harder to be a warmage at an early level...you know, when it's actually fun to be one. Right as it starts to suck, that's when they will allow you to drop down to the RTs you're used to. Balance for all!

[BriarFox]

Yeah, watch. Pretty soon you'll need 1x air lore for the current benefits of Haste.

[Donquix]

Agreed... it's also fun when I occasionally group with someone to be able to haste them. I really don't see it causing a massive issue, it's been in the game, nerfed as it was, for quite some time, not causing an unbalancing issue.

It's not like big MA crews wouldn't pump out haste amulets if it were just made self cast.

Nope, it's been totally unbalancing this whole time. If haste had been changed sooner, treasure wouldn't be so ruined by warmages. And if treasure wasn't ruined, the game would still have 2k players on every night. They all left because warmages ruined their treasurez.

A gm said it. It has to be true.

[Jace Solo]

But but...I was a warmage and didn't get ANY PHAT LOOTZ!!1! I demand compensation under the "Warmages PWN PHAT LOOTSzzS" clause of Simutronicz1!

[DaCapn]

But but...I was a warmage and didn't get ANY PHAT LOOTZ!!1! I demand compensation under the "Warmages PWN PHAT LOOTSzzS" clause of Simutronicz1!

After the haste changes roll out, you should be able to get your stimulus note by going to the bank and using DEPOSIT ALL.

[Firestorm Killa]

If they are talking about nerfing haste because it is overpowered and gives them an advantage over squares, then I would argue that a warrior's 'overpowered' early AS, DS, and Health is doing the same. It is a hell of alot easier to level a warrior through hunting then anything else. Or perhaps instead of 3 mana for 1 rank of HP, then 1 mana for the second per level could be increased? Like I dunno maybe make it 3 mana for each rank? I would say that would probably make it a more even playing field.

[Tgo01]

Man I can't wait for the haste nerf. Finally I'll be able to make millions a night hunting without all those overpowered warmages killing everything in 2 seconds.

[Tolwynn]

Who knows, if they wanted treasure to stop sucking so much, maybe they could make the treasure system just not suck in the first place.

[Methais]

Who knows, if they wanted treasure to stop sucking so much, maybe they could make the treasure system just not suck in the first place.

^ This.

I rape Nelemar with an immolate build, and 90% of the boxes I get have like 800 coins and a clear zircon.

I'm sure that if I respecced into a warmage build, every box would have at least 3 diamonds and an enhancive.

[Firestorm Killa]

^ This.

I rape Nelemar with an immolate build, and 90% of the boxes I get have like 800 coins and a clear zircon.

I'm sure that if I respecced into a warmage build, every box would have at least 3 diamonds and an enhancive.

Think they just don't like people who cast?

[Methais]

Think they just don't like people who cast?

They love Bone Shattering empaths, so pretty sure that's not the case either.

They probably got schooled on the boulder by a warmage once and are still mad over it.

[Drunken Durfin]

Think they just don't like people who cast?

Spellburst.

They don't like people who don't cast either.