Worst Weapon Base

[Fallen]

I'm never one to claim great knowledge of the weapons in GS, but from my observations I would have to say Whipblades have to be one of the worst bases in GS. I can't say as I have ever seen someone use one as their primary weapon, EVEN for RP purposes. They cannot be dual-wielded even though they are portrayed as such in DE lore. I don't think there are any remotely high-end ones, so no one would bother using one for the stats.

Can anyone suggest a worse weapon base? Quarterstaves are supposed to be pretty terrible, but there are atleast those MCW ones floating about.

[Asha]

I thought rapiersand scimitars were supposed to be wet noodles.

[Fallen]

I thought rapiersand scimitars were supposed to be wet noodles.


True, though there are both people who use them, as well as high-end versions of both. Most of the brawling weapons are pretty bad. Paingrips and razorpaws come to mind.

[Archigeek]

Easy: nets. They'll make your whip blade look like a claid.

[Mogonis]

Backswords are up (or down) there.

[Fallen]

Easy: nets. They'll make your whip blade look like a claid.

Hah. That's true. Nets are pretty bad. Darts too. There are a few decent returning tangle-flare nets that are usable. Same with bolas.

[Drew]

I'd say cudgel but I think there is a vial flaring cudgel. There are definitely some decent rapiers and scimitars.

I don't think there is a single decent paingrip out there, in fact I've never once seen a player use it. I don't even know where you could buy one. But I think the razorpaw is actually worse since it only does slash damage, at least the paingrip does all 3 types.

[Androidpk]

Curious now, do weapons like the whip and paingrip have their own unique coup crits?

[WRoss]

I found a 5x DCW whipblade once. Think I ended up pawning it. I also found a temp MCW golvern dart. That thing was insane on eyes when using it as an OHE. Though the worst base for me would be pilum.

[Asha]

I loved my black rolaren backsword! :(

[Drew]

I found a 5x DCW whipblade once. Think I ended up pawning it. I also found a temp MCW golvern dart. That thing was insane on eyes when using it as an OHE. Though the worst base for me would be pilum.

There are a few decent auction pilums believe it or not.

[IorakeWarhammer]

CROSS POSTING TROLL ALERT!

but hell, it's relevant.

You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a vultite and leather whip at Bad!
AS: +515 vs DS: +193 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +81 = +425
... and hit for 64 points of damage!
Neck broken.
Bad twitches several times before dying.

* Bad drops dead at your feet!

[Donquix]

I can't say as I have ever seen someone use one as their primary weapon, EVEN for RP purposes. They cannot be dual-wielded even though they are portrayed as such in DE lore. I don't think there are any remotely high-end ones, so no one would bother using one for the stats.

I know at least one person used only whip-blades, i think it was a female dhe'nar. The complaint about being unable to dual wield them was brought up by them pretty often on the boards. This was a few years back.


Curious now, do weapons like the whip and paingrip have their own unique coup crits?

Doesn't look like it. The coup messaging is pretty generic, in that it's based on the damage type of the weapon not so much the base.


>glance
You glance down to see a red and white pierced heart paingrip in your right hand and a red and white pierced heart paingrip in your left hand.

>cman coup
[Roll result: 143 (open d100: 13) Bonus: 3]
You lunge towards the krolvin warfarer, intending to finish him off!
You make a vicious cross-slash at the krolvin warfarer's neck!
The krolvin warfarer's head flies off as blood sprays from the resulting gaping wound!
The krolvin warfarer rolls over on the floor and goes still.
The deep blue glow leaves a krolvin warfarer.

A nearby krolvin warrior looks a little bit more wary after that display!
Roundtime: 8 sec.

Pretty awesome to decapitate the target with a pair of gloves though, heh.

[Archigeek]

Hah. That's true. Nets are pretty bad. Darts too. There are a few decent returning tangle-flare nets that are usable. Same with bolas.

Have you ever used one? Even with the added tangle-flare and returning they're still weak. The saddest part is that they COULD be awesome weapons.

[Fallen]

Have you ever used one? Even with the added tangle-flare and returning they're still weak. The saddest part is that they COULD be awesome weapons.

D sometimes hunts with both when she is bored. The bola especially does a good job killing Ithzir, critting the necks.

[Stanley Burrell]

Quarterstaff and tiger-claw.

[Stanley Burrell]

Oh and bola.

[WRoss]

Bola acts like a flail, so it's not all that bad. Quarterstaves are amazing for a THW ambusher. They have a small cult following these days, but those MCW ones are absolutely amazing. Crush damage only, easy to aim, and fast.

[Stanley Burrell]

That's true, they are pretty good if they have masterful crit weighting and are 5x translucent whatevers. But, they still suck ass. But they are good, that's true.

[AestheticLife]

Based on every factor available, I would suggest halberds are far and away the worst weapon base in the game.

Whips, brawlers, scimitars, rapiers... even darts are all plausible with the right flares.

Halberds are weak, slow, and can't even exploit flaring with fast swings short of use by a warmage or bard (and really, what bard would ever use one?). Pilums earn a second simply due to the amount of TPs required to effectively use them, and more or less hit as hard as a dagger without the ease of aiming.

Quarterstaves are amazing ambushers, paingrips - yierka spurs - anything of that sort can be spammed via mstrike for solid flaring, darts are still just daggers, and backswords are iffy, but workable. The only other weapon base even close to truly useless is the cudgel, and that has plenty of applications.

[WRoss]

Cudgel is easy to aim and crush only. Great for an ambusher.

[peam]

Are javelins their own base?

If so, they'd assuredly shitty for anything other than hurling, correct?

[WRoss]

there are quite a few high end javelins, and yes, they are good for hurling, but no returners are out there that I know of, unless through bonding.

[droit]

I don't really consider flare-spamming to be a viable hunting option by itself. If your weapon is doing only 5 damage per hit and flares average, what, 15 per flare every 3 to 5 swings?, its gonna take a long-ass time to take something even moderately high level down, even with tonised mstrikes.

I'd probably choose the paingrip as the worst weapon base. Super low DF and AvD (0.030 and -43 vs plate??), plus they do all three damage types, so they're useless as ambushing weapons.

EDIT: Lawl. I just ran the numbers and it would take an endroll of 467 to even achieve the first crit rank (11 damage) vs plate with a paingrip.

[droit]

I've actually toyed with the idea of a javelin ambushing build. Punture-only strikes to the eye with ambush crit weighting and a decent DF would pwn.

[Donquix]

Small weapons and flares only is quite workable. how my warrior hunts, not the most useful but it's fun.

requires hefty amounts of MoC. Don't get me wrong, when I can hunt something in robes I pick that over armor every time, but it's not as painful as you might think. And when you're hitting 8-10 times in 5 seconds, even with standard flares, you'd be surprised how often you actually get crit kills/disables.

[droit]

Post some logs.

[Drew]

Small weapons and flares only is quite workable. how my warrior hunts, not the most useful but it's fun.


Yeah I've seen people do them with tiger's claws and such, but never dual paingrips.

[Baelog]

I'm on the boat with Droit on this one, no way any amount of flaring is going to make up for an incredibly crappy weapon base

[Latrinsorm]

Almost every weapon base is good for something. Halberds, for instance, are the best vs. scale of polearms under 7 second base. Paingrips, while lousy against metal armor, are near the top of base 1 brawlers against everything else, and so on. I can't really say what the market is for any good version of any given base is, but mechanically almost every base has its place, besides the ball & chain. The ball & chain is bullshit.

[Danical]

The ball & chain is bullshit.

Fact.

[Baelog]

Hey Latrin, wouldn't you just use a Nagi against everything that'd you use a Halberd for and come out way more on top?

[Donquix]

I'm on the boat with Droit on this one, no way any amount of flaring is going to make up for an incredibly crappy weapon base

I never said it was as effective as superior weapon bases. That would be a stupid claim. I said it was perfectly viable and not as bad as you might think. It's certainly not for everyone and isn't the most effective means of hunting, by any stretch.

I do avoid anything in plate like the plague. If I have to kill something in heavier armor I'm in voln so I had fu to fall back on but I preferred my weapons. Screen scroll is fun.

I don't have any recent logs since I've been playing shattered (and i don't keep logs to begin with :) but I know i've posted some clips around here. I'll see what I can dig up.

edit: scroll inc


[Roll result: 109 (open d100: 17) Bonus: 8]
You raise your hands high, lace them together and bring them crashing down towards the kiramon worker!
You catch the kiramon worker square in the back! It topples to the ground!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You feel recovered from your whirlwind flurry of strikes.
>mstrike work
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
You explode into a fury of strikes and ripostes, moving with a singular purpose and will!
You thrust with a drakar-tipped red vultite sai at a kiramon worker!
AS: +371 vs DS: +119 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +14 = +285
... and hit for 30 points of damage!
Nice puncture to the back, just grazed the spine!
You thrust with a rhimar-tipped silvery vultite sai at a kiramon worker!
AS: +368 vs DS: +119 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +63 = +331
... and hit for 30 points of damage!
Glancing strike to the head!

** Your silvery vultite sai glows intensely with a cold blue light! **

... 5 points of damage!
Chilly blast to the chest causes heart to skip a beat.
You thrust with a drakar-tipped red vultite sai at a kiramon worker!
AS: +371 vs DS: +113 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +22 = +299
... and hit for 31 points of damage!
Strike pierces thigh!

** Your red vultite sai flares with a burst of flame! **

... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to left eye. Foe blinks back the tears.
You thrust with a rhimar-tipped silvery vultite sai at a kiramon worker!
AS: +368 vs DS: +99 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +47 = +335
... and hit for 29 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the right arm.
You thrust with a drakar-tipped red vultite sai at a kiramon worker!
AS: +371 vs DS: +99 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +89 = +380
... and hit for 36 points of damage!
Glancing strike to the head!
You thrust with a rhimar-tipped silvery vultite sai at a kiramon worker!
AS: +368 vs DS: +80 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +12 = +319
... and hit for 29 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the abdomen.
You thrust with a drakar-tipped red vultite sai at a kiramon worker!
AS: +371 vs DS: +80 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +89 = +399
... and hit for 38 points of damage!
Shot to the hand slices a finger to the bone!

** Your red vultite sai flares with a burst of flame! **

... 25 points of damage!
Burst of flames chars neck a crispy black.
You thrust with a rhimar-tipped silvery vultite sai at a kiramon worker!
AS: +368 vs DS: +74 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +21 = +334
... and hit for 31 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the back.

** Your silvery vultite sai glows intensely with a cold blue light! **

... 10 points of damage!
The kiramon worker winces at the cold blast to the left arm.
The kiramon worker clicks one last time and dies.

Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

50 extra blood damage and associated wounds just from the flares on one mstrike. Again, not making the case this is optimal, just fun and perfectly viable.

[Drew]

The sai is a much better weapon than the paingrip.

[Archigeek]

That's a pretty brutal assault for five seconds Donquix.

[Donquix]

The sai is a much better weapon than the paingrip.

Actually... in that clip, the kiramon have brig class skin (19 AvD for the sai) and scale is the 2nd worst armor type for sais behind plate (they're actually better on chain than rigid leather)

The paingrip would have 10 lower AvD on scale but it has .015 more DF at the same time. (sai .110, paingrip .125)

So for a 280ish endroll on average for the sai is about 30 raw damage while the paingrip would have been 270ish for 33ish raw damage. So in this case, paingrips would have been MORE effective :)


That's a pretty brutal assault for five seconds Donquix.

It's pretty wicked and a lot of fun. I miss it a lot at times. It can get a bit better, i forget exactly but I think i was shooting for 10-12 strikes in 5 seconds still.

It should be noted in this clip I was underhunting a bit, i was 43-45 to the workers 40. And i'm pretty sure I have a substantial coup de grace bonus running which is one reason why I was getting almost 300 endroll there. But that was pretty typical of my hunts. hammerfists (101 end roll for a knockdown. so nice), mstrike, loot. Mix in some coups for the AS as needed :)

[Methais]

I had an ithzir throw a jacket at me once like 473204 years ago. I'd imagine that would have a pretty terrible DF.

That said, it probably still killed me for all I remember.

[Gibreficul]

I had an ithzir throw a jacket at me once like 473204 years ago. I'd imagine that would have a pretty terrible DF.

That said, it probably still killed me for all I remember.

A sai would be SO awesome if it wasn't a second slower ambushing than a dagger. Puncture only....

[AestheticLife]

A sai would be SO awesome if it wasn't a second slower ambushing than a dagger. Puncture only....

...but then you wouldn't own a ton of kewl daggers like Ondreian. t'Would be chaos I say!


Almost every weapon base is good for something. Halberds, for instance, are the best vs. scale of polearms under 7 second base.

Spears are much better than halberds. This is common knowledge.

Jeddart Axes can be hurled about as well as any weapon in the game.

Naginatas absolutely destroy everything short of lances/awl pikes in damage potential.


Want to rethink that statement? Halberds are the worst piece of shit available in the game for the investment you put in (tons of TPs, roundtime, etc).

[WRoss]

One hamded tridemt would be pretty good for ambushing with precision. Anyone know if a weapon is hurled if it will keep all its swung damage types?

[kookiegod]

One hamded tridemt would be pretty good for ambushing with precision. Anyone know if a weapon is hurled if it will keep all its swung damage types?

Fairly sure, yes. I could probably test it with my hurler with my +18 ecw trident

[WRoss]

Fairly sure, yes. I could probably test it with my hurler with my +18 ecw trident

Where are those business figures?

[Danical]

If you can handle the training and whatever the speed increase is, I would most definitely go with a katar over a sai.

With gnimble, I can 4 tap with a katar in 5 (2 seconds after tonis).

[Donquix]

Yeah I get katar envy a lot. But i got like...alters and stuff now.

If I had to do over I would maybe have gone katars on the warrior with massive MoC and brawling on the rogue w/ sais. TWC ambushing with sais and puncture mechanical flares on the sais would be pretty amazing :)

[Latrinsorm]

Hey Latrin, wouldn't you just use a Nagi against everything that'd you use a Halberd for and come out way more on top?I do remember them changing this and only vaguely remember the particulars, so correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember the naginata went from being a natural 4x (or whatever) halberd to an otherwise-identical halberd with +20 (or whatever) AvD. If that is the case, I would certainly use a 0x naginata over a 0x halberd, but I would certainly use a 4x halberd over a 0x naginata for the piddly parry DS it would provide and so I could pretend to hunt gargoyles (but really not bother, because who wants to waste three hundred hours a hunt getting into Darkstone?).
Spears are much better than halberds. This is common knowledge.Not vs. scale they aren't - they are in fact worse.
Jeddart Axes can be hurled about as well as any weapon in the game.Which is great except jeddart axes are base 7, which makes them by definition not under base 7. Did you read anything I wrote beside "halberd" and "best"?

[BigWorm]

I do remember them changing this and only vaguely remember the particulars, so correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember the naginata went from being a natural 4x (or whatever) halberd to an otherwise-identical halberd with +20 (or whatever) AvD. If that is the case, I would certainly use a 0x naginata over a 0x halberd, but I would certainly use a 4x halberd over a 0x naginata for the piddly parry DS it would provide and so I could pretend to hunt gargoyles (but really not bother, because who wants to waste three hundred hours a hunt getting into Darkstone?).Not vs. scale they aren't - they are in fact worse.Which is great except jeddart axes are base 7, which makes them by definition not under base 7. Did you read anything I wrote beside "halberd" and "best"?

I think his point is that an e-bladed store bought nagi is better than the vast majority of halberds.