Poll: Merchants: Should they roleplay or work?

[Shattered Dreamer]

Background: GM Nebhrail who plays Whuid received negative feedback on the officials because he went slow while doing work.




I could easily and very quickly go through and lighten and deepen your items no problem, but to me that would have been no fun and you will not see any of my merchants do that.



My Opinion: While most GM's are volunteers, I personally feel that position is a privilege and should be treated like a job. When I saw the statement, I could easily go quickly, but I choose not to, it made me mad.

While the concept of roleplaying a merchant is not bad, when you have 50-100 customers waiting to interact with that merchant, it's inappropriate. In my opinion, that roleplaying opportunity would be best for another time.

I know I personally get frustrated after waiting for hours, only to have the merchant say he's got to run now.



Which brings us to our poll:


The purpose of this pool is to determine your individual desires with regards to Merchants.


Would you:

A: Like merchants to focus on roleplay and work slowly.
B: Like merchants to focus on customers and work quickly.

[Gnome Rage]

Its greedy and selfish to think that a merchant / GM shouldn't be allowed to roleplay. The game is meant to have the roleplay aspect, you're not supposed to just get your item and disappear. If you were going to go to a real store and have something altered to fit you or to your liking, you would get chatted up by the sales rep.

[Shattered Dreamer]

Its greedy and selfish to think that a merchant / GM shouldn't be allowed to roleplay. The game is meant to have the roleplay aspect, you're not supposed to just get your item and disappear. If you were going to go to a real store and have something altered to fit you or to your liking, you would get chatted up by the sales rep.


Did you read what I posted? Specifically the part about 50 people waiting?

[WRoss]

I like it when they interact with the crowd some, instead of just sitting their like a bot. But whenever you get a group of people together, someone is going to ruin the fun. Also, complaining is likely to make GM's not want to do alter sessions anymore. Give them a break, they are providing you all with a service. They can do it however they want.

[Androidpk]

Did you read what I posted? Specifically the part about 50 people waiting?

Just because you pay a monthly fee to play the game shouldn't entitle you to get work done by a merchant. If the merchants didn't role play I think those events would become pretty stale really fast.

[IorakeWarhammer]

they need 2 kinds of merchants

1. mechanical people that do it quick with no RP and they set things up in advance

2. RP people who are doing random visits and could grant anything randomly so there's anticipation and RP involved to milk them for that extra service

[Shattered Dreamer]

I think they should tailor the service to the crowd.

If there are a LOT of people, they should work faster so a majority of them get services. (NOT ALL)

If there are a handful of people, make the situation more intimate and roleplay whatever you want.



If you look at the popular merchants... Dawe for instance..

[Methais]

Its greedy and selfish to think that a merchant / GM shouldn't be allowed to roleplay. The game is meant to have the roleplay aspect, you're not supposed to just get your item and disappear.

Because standing in line for 4 hours and then having it be all for nothing because the merchant spent 2.5 hours giggling with people and was too tired to do anymore stuff is totally awesome.


If you were going to go to a real store and have something altered to fit you or to your liking, you would get chatted up by the sales rep.

If said real store is rarely open, and when it is open it's only open for a couple hours and is flooded with people all wanting work done, I'm pretty sure the sales rep would be getting shit done and not chatting much with the customers.

I'm not saying merchants should just stand there like a bot, but when there's a ton of people wanting shit done to where he might not be able to get to everyone, cranking items out should be their priority over bouncing around chatting.

Nobody likes standing around for hours on end and having it be a waste of their time.

[Gnome Rage]

Actually - I go to merchants for the experience. I've only had three alters in my eight years of playing Gemstone. I don't mind waiting around for four hours and not getting an alter because I have the chance to roleplay with the merchants. I would be far more upset about not getting an alter if I did not have the chance to roleplay.

[Buckwheet]

While I am certainly not complaining about the FWI festival, I will say the lack of general work being done was surprising for a two week long festival. With some merchants done doing work in the first seven days.

Some used twitter, some didn't. Which I found annoying also. There was one merchant who logged in and said who ever I get done in the next two hours is all I am doing and I am going room order. I appreciated the fact they set a deadine and it was really how fast people would move that determined how many she would get done. Players could only be pissed at other players.

[Gnome Rage]

Did you read what I posted? Specifically the part about 50 people waiting?

Yes - I obviously did read that seeing as I read your whole post. And my opinion still stands. Merchants should roleplay - especially with such a large crowd. You still have a chance of not getting an alter, so why not at least enjoy your time being able to interact with the merchant?

[GSFHenry]

Roleplay can easily be mixed in, but at a festival/event I feel that services shouldn't be place on the back burner to 30 minute roleplay sessions between customers.

There are definitely extremes on both ends here, and I've seen both. I've also seen merchants who may not work at light speed, but they aren't taking pauses between customers. There is a middle ground, and I think 'most' merchants/gms find this on a consistant basis.

I would rather talk about players who slow down the process for everyone, which I think happens way more often than a very slow roleplaying merchant.

[Deathravin]

Maybe I'm crazy, but why not let us request our own alters and just have a quick thumbs up / thumbs down review process? Use an 'alter' verb to bring up a quick description of what to do and how to do it...

>alter backpack
What would you like the article to be?
ex: '<a> large shield with sparkly spikes'
>alter article an
What would you like the noun to be?
ex: 'a large <shield> with sparkly spikes'
>alter noun backpack

etc etc
Could do the same thing on features, prenames, post names... Not everything has to be so damn GM man-hour intensive.


Then you could allow us a method either through bounty points, silver, guild points, gems, something with a timer on it to slowly upgrade our containers lighten/deepen... Could even make a tailor artisan skill to do these functions.

We have a pretty stupid method to enchant our weapons & armor, so that's there...

All thats left is flares, weighting&padding, and other super special things. And that's pretty easily taken care of with premium points.



But hey. Call me crazy, I want to look the way I want to look, and keep GMs making great story-lines, fixing code, and coming up with new stuff, instead of coming up with your character's hairstyle - while I'm sure that's very important to you, I'm never going to read it.

[Warriorbird]

They should, y'know, do both, like they always have.

Given the tiny ass number of players GS has now, people ought to be thankful there ARE merchants.

[Methais]

Given the tiny ass number of players GS has now, merchants ought to be thankful there ARE players.

Fixed. :)

[Warriorbird]

I guess. I'm not sure 20 hours a week at like a dollar an hour is that much of a privilege.

[Sam]

I'm not an avid roleplayer by any means, but I think it would be silly for a merchant to just act like a bot. Just because there's an event going on doesn't mean X number of people should be entitled to services.

Let them work it how they want... If the point of a festival was for everyone to get all the alterations, lightening, etc that they want, then definitely the best way to accomplish this would be to just give out free alteration scrolls and let everyone submit them for the semi-automated process.

It sucks not getting picked... but if you see you're 20th in line and you know you're prone to bitching when you don't get picked, maybe you should just move on.

I've been to several merchants where I didn't make it in time (room order) or didn't get picked (spinner). It sucks when you're hoping to get some work done, but the most annoying part is always listening to people piss and moan about how they never get picked.

[Gnome Rage]

I've been to several merchants where I didn't make it in time (room order) or didn't get picked (spinner). It sucks when you're hoping to get some work done, but the most annoying part is always listening to people piss and moan about how they never get picked.

Ahh. Like the gnome merchant we went to and didn't get picked. There were like 5 people left when she decided she was done. It sucked! but whatever. xD

Weren't you the one bitching ;)

[WRoss]

The thing that annoys me the most is when the same three people are always the first people to merchants when they are in room order. Belnia was notorious for this and I've seen a few new names since he stopped playing so much. Favoritism is the suck.

[Methais]

I guess. I'm not sure 20 hours a week at like a dollar an hour is that much of a privilege.

Nobody forced them to sign up.

[Warriorbird]

Nobody forced them to sign up.

I guess. I view GM attrition as one of the things that brought down GS though.

[kookiegod]

I guess. I view GM attrition as one of the things that brought down GS though.

Bingo.

[Sam]

Weren't you the one bitching ;)

hehe. I think it was more begging there at the end, hoping for a little race favoritism.. and then bitching after she left!

[StrayRogue]

It's a balance. Depending on the services it should either be robot mode or RP'd merchanting. I loved the old-school Sukara 500 people altering sessions. But I also loved the Sproink hilarity too.

My usual issue with merchanting sessions isn't the merchants themselves, but the customers. Nearly every time there is one fool who isn't prepared or won't take a polite no for an answer.

[Warriorbird]

They ought to be more willing to just kick people out with the lower player base. They're probably not, sadly, for fear of losing customers.

[grenthor]

Nobody forced them to sign up.

no one forces people to go to events or to wait around at merchants either

[Methais]

no one forces people to go to events or to wait around at merchants either

That's why I don't go.

[MotleyCrew]

I think merchants should be allowed to RP while they work, it makes the wait much more tolerable IMO.

However, much could be done to streamline merchanting sessions.

First of all, merchants should be required to drop a sign explaining what they are doing, how many etc. They can still go through their speech, but it would eliminate the need for them to repeat it several time for latecomers or people who just happen upon the crowd.

Second, eliminate room order. There is always much speculation about it. Spinning just seems more fair.

Third, be CLEAR with their announcements and calendar postings. TELL us what we need to bring, as well as when and where you will be spinning. So much time is wasted because people have no clue what the service is. If we knew ahead of time, jewelery only! Spinning for 15 people in 15 minutes at the NorthGate! People could show up ready to go and make it possible for a second set of spins.

Which brings me to four. Tell us if you will do more. It's acceptable to say, if these go quickly, I will spin for 15 more, I will make another announcement after I am done with these, even if I decide I can't stay. So then we have the choice of sticking around, or going off and doing something else. (Yes, I realize I have this choice already, but wouldn't this be nicer?)

If all of this was taken care of ahead of time, it would make the whole experience for all much more smooth and enjoyable. The merchants could RP more and enjoy themselves and the players instead of becoming discouraged to return.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I prefer room order + spinning. One room order, one spin, alternate back and forth.

Honestly I don't go to merchants to roleplay, so I prefer they don't and choose speed. Screen scroll is usually bad enough without everyone using every verb they can think of, or pulling out their scripted toys to fuck around with. I'm of the opinion that you should show up, be prepared, and shut the fuck up/stand still until its your turn.

That being said, my biggest annoyance has always been with other players, asking for stupid shit and not having their ideas together. It's so annoying when a merchant would be hung up for 20 minutes on someone who wanted stupid shit like Luukosian death boots. When I won a 30 minute alteration session I got through something like 62 items and I had two minutes to spare.. thank you standing list of alteration ideas. The GM told me the last person they'd done a 30 minute session for only got through three items.. epic facepalm.

[Shattered Dreamer]

Follow up question: What do you consider "roleplay" by a merchant?

I've seen the guy that takes multiple pieces and turns them into something. I've also seen multiple variations of that.


What kind of roleplaying is going on that is taking so long?

[GsJersey]

I personally think if the GM is competent enough they can do both. When shattered first opened as an example the GM's had stuffed shoved at them and was wiping the alters out fast.

When there was a ton of work there was two of them. And as everyone knows they were killing people in between, roleplaying, laughing and having fun. I thought it was great.

[Hips]

I prefer room order + spinning. One room order, one spin, alternate back and forth.

Honestly I don't go to merchants to roleplay, so I prefer they don't and choose speed. Screen scroll is usually bad enough without everyone using every verb they can think of, or pulling out their scripted toys to fuck around with. I'm of the opinion that you should show up, be prepared, and shut the fuck up/stand still until its your turn.



I agree with everything above. You don't go to a merchant to roleplay, you go to have work done. If you want to roleplay, go find the storyline NPCs.

[Nostradamus]

I agree with everything above. You don't go to a merchant to roleplay, you go to have work done. If you want to roleplay, go find the storyline NPCs.

I agree. I like when they room order and lock the door personally. Least you know your getting work done.
But since there is not that many merchants unless your in platinum. I prefer them just to work and get something done.

[Giantphang]

This is an age old discussion...be glad the population is so small. There are tricks to finding merchants. Know the area...when a festival opens up, run around, make a map, learn who's shop is where. Highlight the merchant names in a special merchant color that really stands out and who full often.

Merchants should absolutely roleplay, this is a roleplaying game. It's a bummer when you don't get picked, but honestly, it's so easy to get work with a population this small if you work at it a little bit. I've had at least 10 things done during this festival alone.

It is a bit silly to, in a room full of people, spend 30 minutes roleplaying at the expense of working, but I don't think anybody is doing that. I ran into Whuid when he was doing an altering session early in the morning...only about 10 people were there and he said he'd keep going in room order until he got tired, ended up doing 3 or 4 rounds...but even without roleplaying he was VERY slow. He's likely a newer GM or at least new to altering, and goes slowly and carefully to avoid mistakes.

Example...

I wanted my kilt altered into "An Immense Greatkilt" No show, no long, just that. I handed him the kilt and told him that...literally 5 minutes of silence later, he said he couldn't use the word immense, so I said, ok, how about colossal. 8 minutes later (I timed it) he handed me "a colossal greatkilt"

That says to me roleplaying isn't the problem, he's just slow, which is fine. People have been whining about merchants for over a decade...always the same. Favoritism, the spinners are rigged, the lists are unfair, room order means the GM whispered to people where they were gonna be...

I can tell you as someone who has had TONS of merchant work, made tons of lists, been picked by the spinner tons of time, been first in line for room order...I've never had a send from a GM, or anything like that. I just have a system for finding merchants. Someone mentioned Belnia before...same thing, we had a system, and we were and still are good at finding merchants and getting work. I'm a little rusty, having not played for the last 5 years or so, but I've still managed to get work about 12 times so far this festival.

[Parker]

While most GM's are volunteers, I personally feel that position is a privilege and should be treated like a job.

This is where you lost me. How could you feel that way?

That's fairly ignorant, in my opinion.

It's a game. A roleplaying game first and foremost. Does that mean you have to roleplay? Definitely not, plenty of people don't.

However, ragging on someone who does because they have offered to HELP you and your friends with something you couldn't otherwise do, put up with all the inane bullshit, and watch all your peevish little whispers about how much they suck at it...

Kinda childish, don't you think? If you want a merchant to go fast all the time so badly, apply to be a GM.

[Wrathbringer]

I preferred the days long ago where a merchant would just pull up with his cart somewhere way out in the wilds, presumably on his way somewhere, and work and/or sell new gear for an hour or so, and whoever found them got work/items. No announcement, no nothing. This encouraged community, because you wanted folks to think of telling you if they found one, in case no one decided to broadcast the fact on the amunet. But I digress here.

As for scheduled festivals, I'm of the opinion that work can, and should be performed quickly without a severe drop off in the RP value of the experience. The two concepts shouldn't have to be mutually exclusive.

[Sweets]

Nothing like not getting picked at a merchant to get the fur flying.....:> Whenever I sit down to a merchant I have all of these things first and foremost in my mind:

1. There will be annoying asskissers, whiners, fashionista snobs, and twits to deal with.

2. Most likely I will be at my computer a very long time. Have phone, snacks, ass cushion etc or whatever you need to make it through.

3. I might be there and never get picked. (GASP) Yes I just spent a ton of time farting around with cranky so and sos but it was my decision to do so.

Whuid was slow and chatted a lot. Yep. I still think he needs to be cut a bit of slack. He's a roleplaying merchant. Avoid him if you don't like his style. I like him. I also like the others that are dream machines with the sit down, shut up and be ready. Each experience in and of itself.

[Donquix]

There's no reason not to have a good balance. Lots of merchants give tons of character to their merchants and get work done quickly. Whuid was just sloooooooooow.

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. People also need to be mature enough and not OMFGalterobsessed enough to actually leave slow merchants.

[Augie]

I preferred the days long ago where a merchant would just pull up with his cart somewhere way out in the wilds, presumably on his way somewhere, and work and/or sell new gear for an hour or so, and whoever found them got work/items. No announcement, no nothing. This encouraged community, because you wanted folks to think of telling you if they found one, in case no one decided to broadcast the fact on the amunet. But I digress here.

As for scheduled festivals, I'm of the opinion that work can, and should be performed quickly without a severe drop off in the RP value of the experience. The two concepts shouldn't have to be mutually exclusive.

Heehee, I remember when a merchant set up on the inside of I want to say Moaning Spirits (after the climb check). I think Zafross was his name and I got my very first alter from him. He was a blind merchant who got lost and that's where he ended up setting up shop, not realizing the danger he could be in.

I remember when the black net used to be filled with cries of, "MERCHANT!" and "OMG WHERE!" And then everyone would work together to find it.

[Shattered Dreamer]

I remember when the black net used to be filled with cries of, "MERCHANT!" and "OMG WHERE!" And then everyone would work together to find it.


That was back when the amunet was active though. I would log in just to watch the amunet (recently) and it wasn't anything the same unfortunately.

The only way to bring that back is to scrap shops and force people to interact to exchange gear. Which will never happen.

[playnomore]

Or the one in warfs through the mist. Had lots of folks on their backs with tons of coins in their pockets because the warfs were out in force that day with all of the traffic through the mine.

[Ashliana]

I don't like how merchants are done in Gemstone at all. There should be a special command that shows you the full loresong information of any item. Having to buy an item just to find out if the item is worth buying is ridiculous. Some of the items have descriptions, some don't; some shops have an "order" screen, others are the old, pawnshop style. You should not have to spend half an hour searching for a merchant. Merchants are there to sell people things, to make money. They should be prominent, out in the open, trying to attract attention. Not announcing their presence and then hiding in an alley for some reason.

As for the altering.. I sympathize with the GM. It should be a personal process, but it also sucks to be in line for *ages* and then be sent home empty-handed. Again. And again. And again. Even though it's a Premium merchant.

[Fallen]

I think it is best to have the best of both worlds. People always appreciate the workhorses of festivals. Those merchants who will lock themselves in a room with 200+ people and stay until the work is done. No one expects amazing roleplay to take place 4 hours into a 7 hour marathon alteration session.

At the same time, I also want there to be roleplay heavy merchants. Many festivals are touted as ROLEPLAY festivals, not merchant festivals. The emphasis is supposed to be on roleplaying, not cranking out work. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the Artisan Faire, I'm simply stating there most certainly is a time and place for roleplay during a merchant event. Hell, my favorite time spent at the CCF was in the Dark Elven tent with the Dhe'nar whipblade merchant. If said character wouldn't have roleplayed and just altered like a bot, it would have been horrible.

[thefarmer]

Hell, my favorite time spent at the CCF was in the Dark Elven tent with the Dhe'nar whipblade merchant. If said character wouldn't have roleplayed and just altered like a bot, it would have been horrible.

Heh. Nobody really wanted whipblade alters OR the fancy whipblade-only scripts. Hell, the GM had to make like 2-3 announcements each time and still didn't fill up all the slots. Made it easier to roleplay without an assload of customers.

[Fallen]

Heh. Nobody really wanted whipblade alters OR the fancy whipblade-only scripts. Hell, the GM had to make like 2-3 announcements each time and still didn't fill up all the slots. Made it easier to roleplay without an assload of customers.

TRUE! They are terrible, terrible weapons. Cool scripts, though.

[Kaig]

I generally avoid merchants as a rule due to the increasing times they pick based on who is in the room first. Not to mention all the people who make the role-playing aspect of it sour by being stooges. I frequented more than a few for that purpose alone and was never picked but when you get a group of people together who think they are all entitled to their alter (or whatever the merchant offers) it can get really irritating to deal with. Yeah we all pay to play GS. We all would like to get something unique for our charater(s)...perhaps they should devise a method of picking people based on past attendance so that everyone has a fair shot at getting something at least once. Wishful thinking I know, but it does seem sometimes the same people get things done at the merchants most of the time. Anyway, as per this poll, I personally do not mind the role-play, in fact that is first and foremost why I play GS to begin with. Perhaps someone should start another poll regarding the selection process as it seems to be a general topic here...

[Corli]

I guess a blend of both RPing and working would be the best. This IS a roleplaying game, and the merchants are real people (so to speak), and if they wish to RP, that is their choice. However, you can be chatty and efficient at the same time - chatty to a point. Too much chat will piss some people off, but those types of people will always be pissed off about something. Some of us actually LIKE to interact with others.
What irks me most is how biased the selection in merchanting is. The same names always end up with the alters, and if it isn't a recognizable name, it's most likely one of their MAs. Nothing like spending more money for EB, visiting numerous alterers and seeing the same bloody people getting picked. But that is another bitchfest all together...

It isn't like we want to hear a merchant's life story while a large group of pissy people wait for a select few to get an alter, but if the merchant wants to be a part of the game instead of a vulture target bot, give them a break, get a snack, and remember not everything is going to be to your specifications.

Edit: I voted for option C: A little of both.

[kookiegod]

This is an age old discussion...be glad the population is so small. There are tricks to finding merchants. Know the area...when a festival opens up, run around, make a map, learn who's shop is where. Highlight the merchant names in a special merchant color that really stands out and who full often.

I can tell you as someone who has had TONS of merchant work, made tons of lists, been picked by the spinner tons of time, been first in line for room order...I've never had a send from a GM, or anything like that. I just have a system for finding merchants. Someone mentioned Belnia before...same thing, we had a system, and we were and still are good at finding merchants and getting work. I'm a little rusty, having not played for the last 5 years or so, but I've still managed to get work about 12 times so far this festival.

Having been on both sides of the coin, both a merchant whore, and running a few fairly interesting merchants, it is a tough balance.

Personally, as a merchant, I did most of my RP either with my gambling games, or this one annoying gnome (acting capitan!) but generally I tried to bang out stuff, though it got slow especially with one elven archer guy whom everyone wanted me to write them for them.

As a player, both pre- and now post-GM life, I appreciate the work that goes into being a GM and I think most of the current crew is pretty good on staff, and those who aren't, well, I am not one to be critical in public, I'll just tell them :)

Having said that, I prefer speed. Heck, I hadn't come to the festival at ALL till last night when I saw the lightener/deepener was running and within 15 minutes I got 5 things done by just logging people in, and then Ardwen told me the enchant raffle was soon and had no restrictions, so i ran my guys over, and wouldn't you know, Avantos won (with Balinworn's 50k no less....)

And I got a +17 claid enchanted to +22 which is on a long term loan to Giantphang who is bonded to it...heh....gonna cost him more when he finally buys it. :) Gotta applaud Thandiwe for getting permission to enchant "anything" to 7x, thats pretty hawt. Who's gotten a claid enchanted by a merchant in the last decade???

~Paul

[kookiegod]

Heehee, I remember when a merchant set up on the inside of I want to say Moaning Spirits (after the climb check). I think Zafross was his name and I got my very first alter from him. He was a blind merchant who got lost and that's where he ended up setting up shop, not realizing the danger he could be in.

I remember when the black net used to be filled with cries of, "MERCHANT!" and "OMG WHERE!" And then everyone would work together to find it.

Heh, i got hooked on merchants with Laedrial's (sp?) wagon. She was out once a month, every month, 10 room order, 10 spins, 1 auctioned off spot, and she would go anywhere, and we had a network to find her.

The other memorable one was the first falchion merchant with 4x flaring fals that was set up in the krol caves and hundreds of people died getting there.

Oh, and the Icemule Jugg, where i truly became a merchant whore :)

[Elvenlady]

This is an age old discussion...be glad the population is so small. There are tricks to finding merchants. Know the area...when a festival opens up, run around, make a map, learn who's shop is where. Highlight the merchant names in a special merchant color that really stands out and who full often.

Merchants should absolutely roleplay, this is a roleplaying game. It's a bummer when you don't get picked, but honestly, it's so easy to get work with a population this small if you work at it a little bit. I've had at least 10 things done during this festival alone.

I can tell you as someone who has had TONS of merchant work, made tons of lists, been picked by the spinner tons of time, been first in line for room order...I've never had a send from a GM, or anything like that. I just have a system for finding merchants.

:yeahthat:

Plus, team up and work with others. As part of a group of fantastic people who share the love (you know who you are!) no one loses out because no matter who gets spun/picked we ensure that every one in that group gets work.

[Asha]

Also, sleep the GM in RL.

[Elvenlady]

Also, sleep the GM in RL.

That's on my to-do list for Ebon Gate.