Torment

[Lumi]

How do I optimize my training for this spell? How feasible is it to use 718 as my only/primary hunting tool? Which factors are most important when it comes to warding targets successfully with it?

[Swami71]

It takes to long to kill. You'll get maneuvered to death.

Only use I have for it is an occasional War Griffin when I'm trying to save mana.

[Syberus]

I am unsure how familiar you are with the spell so I am probably going to end up providing too much detail.

Torment’s unique twist is that once cast upon a target it continues to attack until either the target or the caster is dead (for the most part). This can be a double edged sword if battle conditions change from when the spell was first cast to when the demon is attacking and you’re on longer necessarily in an ideal position to play by the rules that govern the attacks. Torment used to only use the unbalance crit table which was very problematic if you accidentally cast at a target immune to unbalance. It now uses unbalance in addition to the normal crush, puncture, and slash tables.

The spell modifies target TD based on a wide variety of factors which include stance of the caster, stance of the target, status of the target and caster (i.e stunned), distance from caster to target (moves to another room etc), level difference between caster and target, how many simultaneous torments are running, and whether or not the caster has another spelled prepped when the demon attacks.

Broadly speaking the most ideal situation for the caster is to be in stance offensive with a stunned target that is at or below caster level. This will result in the largest “positive” TD spread for the caster when the demon attacks. I’ll provide a few logs below for examples as to how much target TD can fluctuate depending on those conditions.

Here is a clip of the initial cast between myself and a close-leveled target

You gesture at a triton combatant.
CS: +503 - TD: +369 + CvA: +20 + d100: +34 == +188
Warding failed!
You glare malevolently at a triton combatant.
You feel a dark force suddenly summoned between you and a triton combatant.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Now watch as the TD is changed because of my offensive stance

You feel a dark force lash out at your opponent!
CS: +503 - TD: +313 + CvA: +25 + d100: +94 == +309
Warding failed!
A triton combatant is engulfed in an eerie, dark haze!
It flinches in pain!
... 85 points of damage!
Neck strike throws the triton combatant, snapping his neck in the process.
The triton combatant collapses, gurgling once with a wrathful look on his face before expiring.
You feel the presence take the triton combatant's life.

As you can see in the above, being in offensive stance swung things in my favor during that conflict. Had I been in neutral stance the TD would have stayed about the same. Anything more offensive than neutral is a plus for the caster and anything more defensive than neutral is a negative. One of the biggest mistakes people make with torment is casting it and staying in guarded. This is a great way to get yourself killed. The next status is a target being stunned. Combatants don’t stun so I will show you with a siren.

Again, the initial cast.

You gesture at a siren.
CS: +503 - TD: +389 + CvA: +20 + d100: +81 == +215
Warding failed!
You glare malevolently at a siren.
You feel a dark force suddenly summoned between you and a siren.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

The first round attack with just me in offensive

You feel a dark force lash out at your opponent!
CS: +503 - TD: +321 + CvA: +20 + d100: +58 == +260
Warding failed!
A siren is engulfed in an eerie, dark haze!
It flinches in pain!
... 85 points of damage!
Hand struck hard! Pain causes the siren to wobble dizzily before falling.
It is knocked to the ground!
The siren is stunned!

Now we have a stunned target and I’m in offensive

You feel a dark force lash out at your opponent!
CS: +503 - TD: +271 + CvA: +20 + d100: +29 == +281
Warding failed!
A siren is engulfed in an eerie, dark haze!
It flinches in pain!
... 80 points of damage!
The siren drops to the ground like a sack of potatoes.

As you can see the TD changes to my benefit the more a target’s situations deteriorates. Training in demon lore reduces the penalty for having a spell prepped when the demon strikes. There isn’t a way to reduce the need to be in offensive stance, but if you’re confident in your warding abilities you could walk around in advanced, forward or even neutral if you’re confident you won’t lose the attack. Be aware though that you can fumble a demon attack which results in the demon turning and attacking you. The closer to offensive you are in this instance the better your chances of survival. When you get it it’s just as bad as the logs posted above showing targets getting hit.

Ideally you would use this in an area that doesn’t’ swarm much and has no maneuver attacks that are going to find you stunned and prone with a cast of torment going. It can be used to hunt fire mages without receiving retribution wounds (by casting and moving 1 room away until the mage is dead), and certainly has its place in our circle as a situationally useful spell when you have a target with a lot of blood that doesn’t crit well with our normal spells.

[radamanthys]

One of its best features is being able to cast and run. Go to a nearby room without any critters, stand in offensive.

Great, but expensive, spell.

[caelric]

So, being a swinging sorcerer, this would benefit me, as I am in offensive stance much of the time? Cast torment, then start swinging in offensive?

Never thought of using it that way, interesting.

[Danical]

The fact that it doesn't do anything on the first cast and only until the first warding cycle renders this spell kinda worthless IMO. I'd rather use Pain. RT = win.

[Allereli]

I'm one of the few who hunted regularly with both 710 and 718. I hunted swarms and used 708 and 410 liberally. Imbeds are your friend.

[Rolton-Sammich]

It's kind of slow, but it can be very effective. Stance offensive and moving to the next (empty) room is probably your best bet in most higher-level hunting grounds.

Enjoy the fumbledeaths.

[Lumi]

Thanks for all the info, folks, it's definitely helpful.

I should point out that this is very much an RP-driven decision. I don't expect to be the most fearsome sorc in the lands by any means. That said...

How much of a TD penalty do I suffer for being 1 room away (still in the same area)? Two rooms?

Does demonology help with anything other than the prep-another-spell penalty?

What's the penalty for having more than one Torment running at a time?

I recognize that I'm going to die doing this, but I might as well minimize the occurrence within my self-imposed limitations :)

[Rolton-Sammich]

How much of a TD penalty do I suffer for being 1 room away (still in the same area)? Two rooms?

Does demonology help with anything other than the prep-another-spell penalty?

What's the penalty for having more than one Torment running at a time?

I recognize that I'm going to die doing this, but I might as well minimize the occurrence within my self-imposed limitations :)

KP is your friend: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Torment_(718)

The TD penalty for being any number of rooms away but still in the same area is 25.

Note that the stance penalty is direct TD for percentage (0 in offensive, 20 in advanced, 40 in forward, etc), so it's almost always better to be in another room rather than stancing up unless you have a specific reason to be there, like keeping them stunned.

Speaking of stunning, note that being stunned or unconscious are the ONLY statuses that matter. Bind, web, silence, prone, other stuff does not matter at all. Just a 50 point penalty for being stunned and a 50 point penalty for sleeping (which applies to either the caster or the target).

The penalty for running more than one Torment is +10 TD, which will be applied to each target. Demonology is said to help you add more targets as well as improve damage, but I don't know how specifically. (Demonology also diminishes the penalty for you having a prepped spell, but since it's 2010 you shouldn't rarely if ever have a prepped spell at all. So don't start now.) You don't really need help in the damage department. I've never tried to run as many Torments as possible, so I can't speak to that.

[zhelas]

It's kind of slow, but it can be very effective. Stance offensive and moving to the next (empty) room is probably your best bet in most higher-level hunting grounds.

Enjoy the fumbledeaths.

Just to add. If you have a bounty task and you use this tactic, you will not get credit for the bounty. This is a "feature" of the spell according to the GMs.

[Rolton-Sammich]

Just to add. If you have a bounty task and you use this tactic, you will not get credit for the bounty. This is a "feature" of the spell according to the GMs.

OHHHH YEAH! I knew there was a reason I didn't use it more.

[Abyran'sa]

I used to use it for MTK hunting. The spell does have uses, but needs a bit of planning to be effective.

[Morph]

mmm well you don't really have to change your training at all to hunt with this spell (unless your CS is really low), so why not just try it and see if the fun you get out of the RP makes up for the slow hunts.