Considering going Pure

[Jace Solo]

Right now I'm a warmage but I'm considering going pure. I'd like to go the IMMO path but I doubt I can sustain it at 30. So, what do I need to do to prepare for that path and what direction should I look to go for both training and hunting. What would be my main spells attack spells? Would I be using 908 for the most part because I'm already sinking TPs into fire lore or just use whatever for given hunting grounds and wait to add fire lores? If that's the case, at what point do I start to train fire?

Never done the whole pure thing. What headaches should I expect or should I just stay warmage?


Name: XXXX Race: Dark Elf Profession: Wizard (shown as: Battle Mage)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 1040067 Level: 30
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 93 (21) ... 93 (21)
Constitution (CON): 67 (3) ... 67 (3)
Dexterity (DEX): 94 (32) ... 94 (32)
Agility (AGI): 80 (20) ... 80 (20)
Discipline (DIS): 78 (4) ... 78 (4)
Aura (AUR): 90 (30) ... 95 (32)
Logic (LOG): 85 (17) ... 90 (20)
Intuition (INT): 75 (17) ... 75 (17)
Wisdom (WIS): 70 (15) ... 70 (15)
Influence (INF): 45 (-7) ... 45 (-7)


(at level 30), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Combat Maneuvers...................| 117 29
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 124 32
Physical Fitness...................| 122 31
Spell Aiming.......................| 143 43
Harness Power......................| 120 30
Elemental Mana Control.............| 102 24
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 104 24
Climbing...........................| 25 5

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 27

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 25

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 13

[DaCapn]

In my opinion, the biggest headache for a pure wizard is not having enough targets around to cone or major ewave and fry in two seconds.

As a fire mage I used 908 as my main opener and then switched to 904 and 906 to finish depending upon the creature. I'd just experiment with what works best on each critter. You may choose to just stick with 24 ranks of air lore for now and work mostly with tonis bolt.

The training is pretty hard to mess up, I think. The biggest thing to settle is how to split your spell research. I prioritize MjE over MnE over Wiz. I crunched out the per-rank benefits of all circles once. Wizard base just gives a bunch of DS basically (which you won't find you're lacking in). MjE gives slightly greater benefits than MnE (AS/DS/TD) and there's more useful MjE CS spells.

[Celephais]

You're not high enough level to really see a whole lot of a difference w/ more fire lore, you're only 8 spells shy of being at max bolt AS (3 MjE and 5 MnE) and that's only going to be about 5 AS at best, so really by switching to pure you're just going to be gaining DS, CS, some mana (maybe) and a small DF increase.

You can "test it out" without actually changing your training. Tonis bolt opener, 904 as your main attack, you should be able to mop up. I was a warmage and just naturally switched to pure based on the fact I was just killing faster/safer with bolts... then I just switched to Shield/brawl for even more DS, and started aiming for 3x spells. I'm personally an advocate of not worrying about fire lore until much later (80s)... 24 ranks of air is still good for a pure (20 for tonis, might as well get the 4 ranks for the extra second of Haste, Haste is a great defense against bandits).

[audioserf]

At level 43 really the only instance in which I find bolting faster/safer is versus undead, simply because of how ludicrous 906 is on them, especially crittable ones.

OP: why are you contemplating the change? At 30 I doubt you're having any problems warmaging... I don't forsee any issues myself until after level 80 or so, if that. If it's just for a change of pace then as Celephais said, you can simulate being a pure by throwing up 513 right now. If you are good at Mana Leech then you may even be able to do some 519 hunting if the urge strikes, especially if you have access to Wracking.

[Celephais]

At level 43 really the only instance in which I find bolting faster/safer is versus undead, simply because of how ludicrous 906 is on them, especially crittable ones.

Erm, not sure how you can claim warmaging as safer in any respects. Shield will provide more DS, and block, extra spell ranks for more DS/TD, empty main hand removes any chance of getting stuck in disarm RT (and as THW goes, disarmed = screwed), and all of your offensive RT is soft so you can go right back to guarded. The only thing would be CM training, and in his "simulated" pure mode he won't lose that but will gain the soft RT for offensive stance. Faster is arguable, depends how much time you have to spend waiting on your setup or if you go strait into feign, as soon as you can start rapid fire hunting (Thraks on Teras is when I started doing that), then I don't think you can argue swinging as faster.

Another thing I just noticed, are you 1xing PF for maneuver purposes? You're not getting any more hitpoints from it, and you shouldn't need to worry about how quickly your blood comes back.

[Jace Solo]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback.

I'm really just curious about being full pure I guess. No real issues with it yet. He's in Sunfist though so no access to wracking...power soon enough. Having a tough time with the arena fight in Zul.

I probably will keep him as a warmage. I'll log all of your comments for when I decide to switch.

Thanks again

[Jace Solo]

Well you're right about def but mobs are usually prone from 909.
PF for stamina
Is shield/brawling better than runestaffing it and do you keep both at like level?

When did you start rapid fire thraks? My biggest concern is not frying by the ome I'm out of mana.

[Celephais]

I didn't wrack as a hunting tactic, that's really only for CS hunting unless you have a ton of enhancives.

I forget the exact level, but it was after Kiramon, then thraks, and eventually expanded to kill the pyrothags in that area as well. I could hunt between mana pulses if there were enough other people hunting to keep the spawn up, and get back to the gate node in time for the mana pulse. I'm not sure if you'd have trouble getting rapid fire stacked up without wracking, I did use it to get rapid fire a good duration before hunting.

I like shield/brawl better, but I only kept shield at like level, brawling at 1/0 ranks (forget which was better, there's some weird 'brawling activated' rules). The extra DS from a 7x shield was worth the points, and nothing will attempt to disarm your open right hand.

[Jace Solo]

So then I'm guessing around 40 for the kiramon.

I thought if you got 1 train in shield you could still gain a good deal of blocking benefits and such from it. A pure might benefit from this because you can block and the extra DS from the shield training might not be as useful as if it were used in spell training or the like. Does that ring any bells?

[Queleri]

I have a pure Dark Elf wizard that is currently level 30 as well. I have NO trouble at all hunting. I love it in fact, so here are my thoughts.

1) Training - I train in Lores every level about 1x per level. I'm lightning attuned so I train in Lightning, Water, and Fire lore just for the hell of it. I usually split between Lightning/Water and than if I have a few extra training points I dump them in Fire. I think I have 15/15/6 in lores.

Because of my attunement I use 910 (Major Shock/Lightning) and 518 (Cone Lightning) quite a bit, they're both very powerful and easily do over 100 damage with my skills. Despite that though 906 is still my main spell of choice, so the little fire lore does help, I notice an improvement to crits on spells at about 3-5 ranks in a lore. That's just me personally though.

If you're going to go pure, doing Alchemy doesn't hurt, making your own wands is very helpful. But unnecessary, if you're going to do it anyway though just keep that in mind.

For your general spell training I currently have 20 Major Elemental spells, just so I could get stone skin. about 27 Minor Elemental Spells (to get Elemental Targeting which is a MUST have and working towards Elemental Barrier), and 27 Wizard spells. At this point I Train in Minor and Wizard every level, and when I triple going forward I'll drop it in Major after I get Barrier and Familiar Gate. With 20 Major spells I get 20 feedback from Mana Leech which seems to be more than enough to get me through must hunting trips.

2) Hunting - Because 906 (Minor Fire) is my main spell of choice obviously the glacier makes for excellent hunting grounds. Unfortunately at 30 you're probably a bit inbetween here, the Ice Trolls are getting way to easy and are now under train hunting, Crones are hard to come by, and Titans/Giants are rather mana intensive still. Even so if I need a quick fry I usually head up there.

Oh yeah, Pooka's are great! Undead in Shadow Valley, fire rips them apart. This is a great place to fry in your early 30's. I'm usually just going from one Adventure Guild task to the next so I don't really have a "regular" hunting ground, where ever he sends me is pretty much it.

After Pooka's Skeletal Giants are good, than Arctic Titans/Frost Giants/Storm Giants until you get to about 40 are all easy enough for me to kill, again it's just the mana drain and because they're currently over my level I have a difficult time mana draining them. By the time you need to hunt them regularly though it shouldn't be a problem.

If that doesn't work for you I'd suggest Rotting Corpses in Castle Varunar (sp?). Most undead seem pretty vulnerable to fire attacks and you can make quick work of them.

I'm having trouble logging in right now from work, the website is blocked from here and my SGE isn't working today. When I get home or tomorrow though I'll post my skill/stats so you can get an idea of what I've done.

Anyway I hope that helps, if you have any questions feel free to shoot me a PM. I'd be glad to go hunting with you if you'd like to get a feel for it before converting. Good luck either way.

[Queleri]

So then I'm guessing around 40 for the kiramon.

I thought if you got 1 train in shield you could still gain a good deal of blocking benefits and such from it. A pure might benefit from this because you can block and the extra DS from the shield training might not be as useful as if it were used in spell training or the like. Does that ring any bells?

On this note I do not use shield training and haven't had an issue. Honestly I like the Runestaff, having a free hand to pick stuff up, etc. It's easy to drop a few TP's in AS, and you're training so much in Lore's, Magic, SA, Etc. and with a macro you're only in Stance Offensive for a few seconds. Usually in guarded self spelled with 4x leather and a 4x runestaff I have about a 320 DS as I recall.

I also use a Runestaff on my Sorcerer who's in his late 50's and he's had no issue not using a shield either, and he usually over hunts by about 10 trains and unless there's a boil, or CM he does just fine. Anyway again just my observations.

[Donquix]

I notice an improvement to crits on spells at about 3-5 ranks in a lore. That's just me personally though.

5 ranks in lore is a whopping .005 increase in the bolts damage factor. Meaning for every 200 endroll you're increasing your raw damage by 1.

I think you're seeing what you want to see. There is a reason wizards almost completely ignore lores until you can pickup a million ranks of fire for immo.

[Celephais]

I have a pure Dark Elf wizard that is currently level 30 as well. I have NO trouble at all hunting. I love it in fact, so here are my thoughts.

1) Training - I train in Lores every level about 1x per level. I'm lightning attuned so I train in Lightning, Water, and Fire lore just for the hell of it. I usually split between Lightning/Water and than if I have a few extra training points I dump them in Fire. I think I have 15/15/6 in lores.
/facepalm

First off, Lightning is not a lore. Lightning lore value is half Water + Air.

Attunement and lore training are not necessarily related. Attunement only makes spells with random crits cause your crit (EBlade, MjEwave, ElemStrike/Blast, etc). What's worse is that lightning bonus doesn't even improve 518, and lightning is half as effective as any other lore (due to double training).

Lores work best when you focus. You're not doing yourself any favors by spreading your lores out so much, and you're seeing VERY minor benefits. I'm talking a 0.015 DF improvement on 910 (a 2-3.6% improvement).

Your fire lore training is literally a massive waste, at double training cost and a 0.006 DF improvement.


Because of my attunement I use 910 (Major Shock/Lightning) and 518 (Cone Lightning) quite a bit, they're both very powerful and easily do over 100 damage with my skills. Despite that though 906 is still my main spell of choice, so the little fire lore does help, I notice an improvement to crits on spells at about 3-5 ranks in a lore. That's just me personally though.
No, you're not noticing an improvement.


If you're going to go pure, doing Alchemy doesn't hurt, making your own wands is very helpful. But unnecessary, if you're going to do it anyway though just keep that in mind.
This will be a massive time sink that will not pay for itself anytime soon. Wands are cheap if you actually need to use them, which you shouldn't.


For your general spell training I currently have 20 Major Elemental spells, just so I could get stone skin. about 27 Minor Elemental Spells (to get Elemental Targeting which is a MUST have and working towards Elemental Barrier), and 27 Wizard spells. At this point I Train in Minor and Wizard every level, and when I triple going forward I'll drop it in Major after I get Barrier and Familiar Gate. With 20 Major spells I get 20 feedback from Mana Leech which seems to be more than enough to get me through must hunting trips.
Again, more bad info. The key is to have MjE and MnE at level, these are your spell aiming AS circles, and your CS circles. Wiz is your DS and utility (gate/enchant) circle. Getting 20 mana back at level 30 isn't good, this number is capped at your MjE ranks, and if you had it at level, you'd be getting 50% more mana back on the first cast.

Familiar gate is just going to get you killed a lot until you've got a lot more EMC and wizard ranks. I am not going to say don't get it, because it's fun, but it's not going to be reliable.


2) Hunting - Because 906 (Minor Fire) is my main spell of choice obviously the glacier makes for excellent hunting grounds. Unfortunately at 30 you're probably a bit inbetween here, the Ice Trolls are getting way to easy and are now under train hunting, Crones are hard to come by, and Titans/Giants are rather mana intensive still. Even so if I need a quick fry I usually head up there.

Oh yeah, Pooka's are great! Undead in Shadow Valley, fire rips them apart. This is a great place to fry in your early 30's. I'm usually just going from one Adventure Guild task to the next so I don't really have a "regular" hunting ground, where ever he sends me is pretty much it.

After Pooka's Skeletal Giants are good, than Arctic Titans/Frost Giants/Storm Giants until you get to about 40 are all easy enough for me to kill, again it's just the mana drain and because they're currently over my level I have a difficult time mana draining them. By the time you need to hunt them regularly though it shouldn't be a problem.
You're mentioning mana difficulties, this is likely due to not properly training in MjE to level, your mana drain CS is suffering, and the amount you leech is suffering.

It also doesn't help that you're so heavily trained in lore and don't have tonis bolt. Tonis bolt is the goto opener for most creatures (when mana permits or creature is dangerous enough immolate takes over), the knockdown/stun rate is incredible. Short of post-cap immolators, all (min/maxing)wizards should get 20-24 ranks of air lore.

[Daragon]

Right now I'm a warmage but I'm considering going pure. I'd like to go the IMMO path but I doubt I can sustain it at 30. So, what do I need to do to prepare for that path and what direction should I look to go for both training and hunting. What would be my main spells attack spells? Would I be using 908 for the most part because I'm already sinking TPs into fire lore or just use whatever for given hunting grounds and wait to add fire lores? If that's the case, at what point do I start to train fire?

Never done the whole pure thing. What headaches should I expect or should I just stay warmage?

I was able to sustain the Immo path at 25. You will need Mana Leech to help sustain it. Then this:
1.5x EMC
1.5x Harness power
1x Fire(Lores are too expensive to double earlier on)

This will help you sustain the immo path. this is how i did it anyways. And I usually kill critters in 1 shot almost 100% of the time.