Japan Rejects Iraq Hostage-Takers' Demands

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Isn't this against the geneva convention? Or does it not count as they aren't a government?


Japan Rejects Iraq Hostage-Takers' Demands
By Masayuki Kitano and Linda Sieg, Reuters

TOKYO (April 9) - Facing his toughest political test, Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi told an anguished Japan on Friday he had no plans to pull troops from Iraq despite a threat by kidnappers there to kill three Japanese civilians.



AP
A video shows Japanese hostages with masked captors Thursday.

Tearful families of the three pleaded for the government to withdraw Japan's non-combat troops from the southern Iraqi city of Samawa, where they have been helping to rebuild the area.

Thousands of protesters gathered in a Tokyo park, waving rainbow-colored peace flags and holding placards reading, ''Government: Don't murder the three people. Pull out the troops.''

Some analysts said mishandling of the crisis could bring down the government, a prospect that worried financial markets.

''I don't think they can be saved if the government does not consider pulling the troops out. There are only two days left,'' Kyodo news agency quoted the mother of 18-year-old hostage Noriaki Imai as telling a news conference.

Koizumi, however, said he was not considering withdrawing troops from Samawa, where 550 Japanese soldiers are stationed.

''We should not give in to these despicable threats from terrorists,'' he told reporters.

He added the government was working to confirm the facts and that if the kidnappings were confirmed, the hostages' safety was the top priority.

Japanese were stunned when a previously unknown group released a video late on Thursday showing what it said were three hostages, blindfolded and with a gun to their heads.

The group vowed to ''burn them alive'' if Japanese troops did not leave Iraq within three days.

Koizumi has spent enormous political capital to push through the deployment of about 1,000 military personnel in total to demonstrate that Japan can take a bolder role in global security.

The mission is Japan's riskiest military operation since World War II and a major shift away from the purely defensive military stance Tokyo adopted after its defeat in the war.

Japanese Senior Vice Foreign Minister Ichiro Aisawa was set to arrive in Amman on Saturday to gather information, accompanied by a National Police Agency ''Terrorism Response Team.'' Police would give no details about the unit.

PUBLIC DIVIDED

The whereabouts of the three -- Imai, who had planned to look into the effects of depleted uranium weapons; aid worker Nahoko Takato, 34; and freelance reporter Soichiro Koriyama, 32 -- was unclear.

So was the precise deadline, although a ruling coalition official said it was around 9 p.m. (0800 EDT) on April 11.

Besides the Japanese, seven South Koreans, a Briton, two Palestinians with Israeli identity cards, and a Canadian were reported to have been taken hostage in recent days.

The Koreans were later freed.

Vice President Dick Cheney, who arrives in Tokyo on Saturday at the beginning of an Asian tour, is expected to urge Washington's allies in the region to stand firm in their commitment to the U.S.-led mission in Iraq.

No Japanese soldier has been killed in combat since 1945, and casualties could affect support for Koizumi's government, whose ruling coalition faces Upper House elections in July.

Japan's public is sharply divided over the dispatch. Critics say it violates Japan's pacifist constitution and resent what they saw as U.S. pressure to put ''boots on the ground'' in Iraq.

''As we've said in the past, hasn't this Iraq war contributed to an expansion of terrorism, rather than leading to its prevention?,'' Democratic Party leader Naoto Kan told parliament.

Organizers said 4,000 demonstrators took part in a rally at Hibiya Park in central Tokyo to call for the troops withdrawal.

Tokyo residents are worried about a possible attack in the nation's capital, while in Samawa, blasts were reported again on Thursday near the Japanese soldiers' camp.

There were no reports of casualties or damage but the troops have suspended their reconstruction work outside the camp.

Financial markets were on edge. ''If the government mishandles the issue, that could bring down the Koizumi cabinet,'' said Yasuo Ueki, a market analyst at consultancy Poko Financial Office.

The Nikkei share average closed down 1.61 percent at 11,897.51 while the yen was trading at about 106.50 to the dollar after falling as low as 106.78.


04/09/04 07:50 ET

[Pierat]

It violates several parts of Article 3. Ill show below... However, this is a group of terrorists, they dont follow, or ever have followed the geneva convention.




Article 3
(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; (b) taking of hostages; (c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment; (d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

They violate A, B, C and D.....

Even if you suggestion these people were prisoners of war, which theyre not since they were civilian, it would violate article 13 as shown below:

ARTICLE 13
Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

[peam]

They've a four Italians and two Americans now.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news%3ftmpl=story%26cid=564%26e=2%26u=/nm/20040409/ts_nm/iraq_abductions_dc_2

http://www.angels-of-love.com/images/missaccomplished2.jpg

[Weedmage Princess]

Wow..if that happens...I think Bush will be well on his way to becoming one of the most hated individuals in the world. Not that I'm saying he deserves that title but..I do think it's time we get the hell out of Iraq and send our people home. (we being not just Americans, but all Coalition nations)

*edited because I woke up a bit too early to spell things correctly the first time around.

[Edited on 4-9-2004 by Weedmage Princess]

[Edaarin]

Japan can't back down. Their placement of troops is purely a symbolic move, because 1000 soldiers here or there isn't going to make any difference. The hostage-takers know this, and if they make Japan give in to their demands they basically announce to the world that the Japanese are pussies.

Either way, the Prime Minister is in for a good reaming. Boned whatever he does, that has to suck.

[Artha]

Yeah, and then Iraq can be Iran v 2, which would be TOTALLY awesome. I mean, one islamofacist theocracy just isn't enough.

Edit: Also, it sends a message to any other countries we may invade that guerilla tactics will work. We don't want that.

[Edited on 4-9-2004 by Artha]

[longshot]

This has been on TV the entire day.

It even made the front page of the sports only newspaper.

Japan is seriously against the troop deployment. They have legitimate reasons as well.

1. It's against their constitution to deploy troops in a combat zone.

2. They have to pay a bunch of money, and get no credit. They paid billions of yen for the last war in Iraq, and weren't even invited to the victory party because they didn't deploy forces.

3. The population was overwhelmingly against the war to begin with.

The controlling politcal party, the LDP (Liberal Democratic Party), has been the dominant party in Japan since the end of the war. They are a one party democracy. This is changing, as they are loosing seats to the Japan Democratic Party. A big part of their platform is withdrawl from Iraq.

I don't think the Koizumi government will withdraw troops. If people start dying though, it is a real possiblity that they will lose power.

The coalition of the willing will consist of the US, a few brits, and a handful of Poloks. What could possibly go wrong?

[Edaarin]

I can't remember, is this Prime Minister the same one that went to play golf after a US submarine sunk a Japanese tourist boat a few years ago?

[longshot]

Originally posted by Edaarin
I can't remember, is this Prime Minister the same one that went to play golf after a US submarine sunk a Japanese tourist boat a few years ago?

Ha! No, that was Mori, the old prime minister.

The guy now is Koizumi.

It was a fishing boat with a bunch of teachers and high school kids that found itself in the wrong place during an emergency surfacing drill of a nuclear submarine.

Mori finished his round of golf after he found out about. His approval rating was a stellar 9% after that, making him the least popular prime minister of all time.

[Edaarin]

Yeah, that was the one. My Government teacher in high school was ranting about how golf is sacred, and all else is second for days after that...What was his excuse, not finishing golf wouldn't have taken the torpedo back? Heh.

[TheEschaton]

I agree, Japan cannot back down. Isn't it SOP to not make a deal with terrorists? But it's a "fucked if you do, fucked if you don't" sort of deal.

These people are outside of Geneva because they're not acting on behalf of the Iraqi (or any other) gov't.

-TheE-

[longshot]

It was worse than a torpedo! The submarine had civilians touring the submarine. They got to partake in the drills.

The submarine did an emergency surfacing drill and surfaced UNDERNEATH the fishing ship, tearing it in half. Completely preventable.

After Mori was replaced, Koizumi was the highest rated prime minister ever. He had done absolutely nothing, except be someone other than Mori.

Koizumi's approval rating has declined since, and has finally stabalized. A few casualities, and he's as good as toast.

Of course the Japanese government can't back down. I don't think they should either. They have no choice but to push on.

The deaths of these people will really hurt his approval rating. Also, if the 'rabs somehow manage to kill a soldier, I think that will be the end of Koizumi's government.

[Weedmage Princess]

Yes but with things being as they are now (IE, where are the WMDs, Saddam is out of power, etc) ...I don't think we should be there. Not withdraw because these terrorist said so, but withdraw because we really have no reason to be there any longer.

But...no matter what the reason is, it is true--the terrorists are going to feel vindicated, as if it was done because of them...and that will open another can of worms.

[Artha]

Yes but with things being as they are now (IE, where are the WMDs, Saddam is out of power, etc) ...I don't think we should be there. Not withdraw because these terrorist said so, but withdraw because we really have no reason to be there any longer.

I'm all for making a strong Iraqi run government ASAP. However, withdrawal would be a mistake that would not only cause lots of civilian casualties, but would possibly allow the vocal minority to create a situation like Iran.

[Pallon]

Bush = sclewed!

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
Wow..if that happens...I think Bush will be well on his way to becoming one of the most hated individuals in the world. Not that I'm saying he deserves that title but..I do think it's time we get the hell out of Iraq and send our people home. (we being not just Americans, but all Coalition nations)





Yes but with things being as they are now (IE, where are the WMDs, Saddam is out of power, etc) ...I don't think we should be there. Not withdraw because these terrorist said so, but withdraw because we really have no reason to be there any longer.

But...no matter what the reason is, it is true--the terrorists are going to feel vindicated, as if it was done because of them...and that will open another can of worms.

You have to be kidding me.. right? One of the basic fundamental rules of dealing with any terrorist is that you simply cannot cave into any of their demands. By doing so, you empower them.. which is the REASON they do what they do.

You find them and you kill them. Period. Anyone over in Iraq either knows the risks of being there or they are simply too stupid to realize the risks.

And if we were to simply pack up and leave now.. what do you think would actually happen to Iraq?

Let me tell you what would happen... civil war which will lead to the same type of government that spawned Saddam.

Great idea. "Screw it.. let's just leave and we will deal with it in 10 years"

[Edited on 4-9-2004 by Parkbandit]

[Pierat]

If we pulled out now, we would get more **** for leaving their country in ruins then the **** we are getting now for this "occupation". Were screwed either way. But by adding to the complaining about how we need to pull out, your not helping, duh we need to pull out, im sure no one wants out of there more then Bush right now....lol... At this point we have to make the best of it :/

[Methais]

What are civilians doing over in Iraq right now anyway? That's just stupid to go there at this point in time if you're not a soldier.

I say nuke the entire middle east and add another ocean to the map called the Arabian Ocean. Almost all the problems with the world have been rooted in the middle east for centuries now, probably thousands of years.

The worst part about it is it all boils down to a religion war. Kinda sad if you ask me, a bunch of people causing bullshit with the world for centuries over something that most likely is just a bloated fairy tale anyway (i.e. religion).

contractors Methais.

aid workers as well

[Ravenstorm]

Unfortunately, I have to agree that pulling out completely would be a terrible idea at this point.

The entire operation should be UN controlled instead with forces and expense shared by all members. And if that means we don't get to try to set up a puppet government, oh well. That's assuming the UN would even be willing to do it at this point.

Raven

Well, now that it is coming out that the UN has been corrupted by the Iraqi Oil money...
Not to mention the UN has never been successful in this type of action... I don't think they are the right people to have in charge.

[Weedmage Princess]

This is going to sound totally messed up on my part I'm sure but...to be honest...I really don't give a damn about what happens there now. The main reason I supported the war initially was because I bought--hook, line and sinker--the whole "imminent danger" thing. I believed Hussein had WMDs and was conspiring with terrorist to use them against American interests abroad and against us here at home.

I do understand, and even agree, that leaving now would not be a good thing. I think my sentiment stems mostly from all this "our information was flawed about the WMDs" hoopla that we're getting now...and how everyday more and more of our people are dying there and for what? Shi'ites and Sunni Muslims (two groups who if I understand correctly...did not get along) to come together, unite and throw stones at our troops, telling them to go home.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
The main reason I supported the war initially was because I bought--hook, line and sinker--the whole "imminent danger" thing.

I hope you've learned to be more cynical.

[Weedmage Princess]

Originally posted by ThisOtherKingdom
I hope you've learned to be more cynical.

Heh, I learned something. Though I still do think it's kind of f***ed that you can't believe the leader of your country--the most powerful country in the world--when he tells you that it's absolutely necessary to go to war with a country because the lives of you and your fellow countrymen are at stake.

Be sure you vote for Nader then cause Kerry was in favor of the war and still is :duh:

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by longshot
It was worse than a torpedo! The submarine had civilians touring the submarine. They got to partake in the drills.

The submarine did an emergency surfacing drill and surfaced UNDERNEATH the fishing ship, tearing it in half. Completely preventable.


That was REALLY bad. The submarine captain allowed the unscheduled emergency manuever to be done without taking all the normal procedures that exist to ensure that nothing like what happend happen.

The US got off LIGHT after that. Japan should have raked us over the coals for a LONG time.

I remember the debate about the captain going to Japan to openly apologize for what happened and how it could be used against him legally so thats why he was not supposed to, but there it is simply considered the proper thing to do so many were quite angry that he was not going to do so.

Do you know if he ever did publically apologize Longshot?

[Edited on 4-9-2004 by Skirmisher]

[Artha]

Though I still do think it's kind of f***ed that you can't believe the leader of your country--the most powerful country in the world--when he tells you that it's absolutely necessary to go to war with a country because the lives of you and your fellow countrymen are at stake.


Why? Honestly, how hard do you think it would be for a country to provide terrorists with the materials to make biological/chemical weapons (if not the weapons themselves). Hell, if you start off with a culture, you can make quite a bit of anthrax using commercially available stuff. The FBI did a test using a benign bacteria instead, and created a shitload of it without raising the suspicion of local law enforcement.

[Fengus]

Originally posted by longshot
The submarine did an emergency surfacing drill and surfaced UNDERNEATH the fishing ship, tearing it in half. Completely preventable.


How would that be preventable? An emergency surface is not controlled at all. Go get a ball filled with air hold it under water and let go, thats what an emergency surface is, the only control is that the sub will go up.

Sounds like a freak accident, or a bit of bad luck. But nothing all that outrageous.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Fengus
How would that be preventable? An emergency surface is not controlled at all. Go get a ball filled with air hold it under water and let go, thats what an emergency surface is, the only control is that the sub will go up.

Sounds like a freak accident, or a bit of bad luck. But nothing all that outrageous.

Read about it and get back to us before making such a snap judgement about something that cost 9 people including i think 5 innocent high school kids their lives.

Edited to make it easier for you.

Click this link for the US Navy's Final Findings. (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/01/ehime.maru.settlement/)

[Edited on 4-9-2004 by Skirmisher]

[Methais]

f

u
?

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Fengus
An emergency surface is not controlled at all. Of course not. An emergancy surfacing DRILL is quite controlled, however. A la fires and fire drills.

overall I dont understand why anyone thinks we will ever, if even consider pulling out of Iraq.
June 30th is a deadline to give the control of the government to the iraqi councel, we from this day on will always have a base in Iraq, I believe.

[longshot]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
This is going to sound totally messed up on my part I'm sure but...to be honest...I really don't give a damn about what happens there now. The main reason I supported the war initially was because I bought--hook, line and sinker--the whole "imminent danger" thing. I believed Hussein had WMDs and was conspiring with terrorist to use them against American interests abroad and against us here at home.

I do understand, and even agree, that leaving now would not be a good thing. I think my sentiment stems mostly from all this "our information was flawed about the WMDs" hoopla that we're getting now...and how everyday more and more of our people are dying there and for what? Shi'ites and Sunni Muslims (two groups who if I understand correctly...did not get along) to come together, unite and throw stones at our troops, telling them to go home.

This is how I feel as well.

I know we can't leave, but I really could give two shits about the Iraqi people.


Originally posted by Parkbandit

Anyone over in Iraq either knows the risks of being there or they are simply too stupid to realize the risks.



Given my experiences here over a year and eight months, I'm going to say it's probably the latter reason.


Originally posted by Fengus

How would that be preventable? An emergency surface is not controlled at all. Go get a ball filled with air hold it under water and let go, thats what an emergency surface is, the only control is that the sub will go up.

Sounds like a freak accident, or a bit of bad luck. But nothing all that outrageous.

Are you related to Leloo?

It was a drill. It wasn't necessary.

They didn't do the proper safety checks, and had some friends of Bush's on the submarine. They let them at the controls and killed a bunch of high school kids.

Just once, I'd really like someone like yourself to say, "I'm sorry for being retarded".

Just once.

[HarmNone]

I am sorry I am retarded, Longshot. Honest, I am. :(

HarmNone, doing her best to make Longshot's day

[Back]

We can thank Bush for driving us to the brink of World War.

world war?... you have to be fucking kidding me
please, please tell me you are not foolish enough to think that.