Ten Most Harmful Books of the 19th and 20th Centuries

[Ravenstorm]

This is according to conservatives as reported by conservatives. Kind of telling.

Click to see what's ruined society. (http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=7591)

Raven

[Ebondale]

This list is bogus.

1. The Communist Manifesto
2. Mein Kampf
3. Quotations from Chairman Mao
4. The Kinsey Report
5. Democracy and Education
6. Das Kapital
7. The Feminine Mystique
8. The Course of Positive Philosophy
9. Beyond Good and Evil
10. General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money

Clicking on the list of editors for the website they all seem to be a group of Ivy-leaguers. I would have thought that a group of supposed intelligent and free thinking people would be a little bit more open minded than that.

[HarmNone]

Heh. Yeah, that's a buncha bad-ass books, all right. I mean, we wouldn't want anybody being educated now, would we? Who knows what such a person might get up to? :whistle:

[Ebondale]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Heh. Yeah, that's a buncha bad-ass books, all right. I mean, we wouldn't want anybody being educated now, would we? Who knows what such a person might get up to? :whistle:

Of course we wouldn't want any one to be educated. Then somebody might catch on to the fact that our government is going to hell in a handbasket. :(

[Asha]

Richard and Jane go camping.

Fucked me up for life.

[Itachi]

If America was a book, it would be on this list.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/Sasuke916/Fonz.bmp

[Ebondale]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/usafsage/MANYBAYO.gif

Freedom and Democracy, indeed.

[isebumples]

America is a book, Jon Stewart wrote it. It probably should be on the list, because its hilariously funny.

-Bumple's player

[Itachi]

Ya a lot of those Hollywood jews are real funny.

[Tsa`ah]

I would suggest you read the TOS before you skirt any closer to crossing the line Itachi.

I would say the list is too politically correct. It doesn't list religious texts or the Anarchist's Cook Book.

Aside from that, I don't agree that a book can be dangerous at all. Just take a look at Mein Kampf, it barely sold until after WWII and Hitler's death, While it is required reading for every skin head, neo-Nazi, clansmen, and racist puke out there ... it is no more dangerous that any given Dr Sues book.

Idiots translating the bible or any other religious text have caused far more evil in this world that Hitler's psychotic babble.


[Edited on 6-1-2005 by Tsa`ah]

All those books sucks.

The Stinky Cheese Man and Other Fairly Stupid Tales is the downfall of society as we know it.

How many lives did the communist manifesto cost?

[ElanthianSiren]

Silent spring -- a book about birds and water pollution and the way toxins biomagnify when disposed of improperly. Yah, real threat there.


-Melissa

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Dave
How many lives did the communist manifesto cost?

How many lives has:

4. The Kinsey Report
5. Democracy and Education
7. The Feminine Mystique
8. The Course of Positive Philosophy
9. Beyond Good and Evil
10. General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money

cost?

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
How many lives did the communist manifesto cost?

I heard that someone fell into the printing press while they were making the book once

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Dave
How many lives did the communist manifesto cost?

Zero. Communism under Lenin was drastically different than Communism under Stalin. The book didn't cost any lives, circumstances and insane dictators did.

[Xandalf]

Also, I fail to see how

2. Mein Kampf

has been harmful to anyone. It was an obscure book written by a madman. The book didn't hurt anyone, it would NEVER even be known had Hitler not done the things that he did.

Simply because the author was harmful does not insinuate that his works were.

[4a6c1]

This would describe every book on my top ten list.


Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Idiots translating the bible or any other religious text have caused far more evil in this world than Hitler's psychotic babble.

Originally posted by Xandalf

Originally posted by Dave
How many lives did the communist manifesto cost?

Zero. Communism under Lenin was drastically different than Communism under Stalin. The book didn't cost any lives, circumstances and insane dictators did.

Cause and effect.

And your right a book that calls for a violent revolution to bring a utopia would never cause any dead.
the overthrow of the Bourgeois by the Proletarians was ment to be completely peaceful.

[Edited on 6-1-2005 by Dave]

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Xandalf

Originally posted by Dave
How many lives did the communist manifesto cost?

Zero. Communism under Lenin was drastically different than Communism under Stalin. The book didn't cost any lives, circumstances and insane dictators did.

Cause and effect.

How many lives has the Bible cost?

[Wezas]

Ann Coulter must have been #11.

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Xandalf

Originally posted by Dave
How many lives did the communist manifesto cost?

Zero. Communism under Lenin was drastically different than Communism under Stalin. The book didn't cost any lives, circumstances and insane dictators did.

Cause and effect.

Welcome to the world, my friend.

So you're trying to insinuate that, let's say, because the Government builds roads, they're responsible for deaths by accidents on them?

Or the idiot who slices himself with a knife. Is that the knifemakers fault?

You can't blame Communism philosophy for the way it was implemented, because the two are antithetic.

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Xandalf

Originally posted by Dave
How many lives did the communist manifesto cost?

Zero. Communism under Lenin was drastically different than Communism under Stalin. The book didn't cost any lives, circumstances and insane dictators did.

Cause and effect.

How many lives has the Bible cost?

I dont know where in the bible it tells people to murder. But if you can point that out to me I would be grateful.

Originally posted by Xandalf

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Xandalf

Originally posted by Dave
How many lives did the communist manifesto cost?

Zero. Communism under Lenin was drastically different than Communism under Stalin. The book didn't cost any lives, circumstances and insane dictators did.

Cause and effect.

Welcome to the world, my friend.

So you're trying to insinuate that, let's say, because the Government builds roads, they're responsible for deaths by accidents on them?

Or the idiot who slices himself with a knife. Is that the knifemakers fault?

You can't blame Communism philosophy for the way it was implemented, because the two are antithetic.
check my edit

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Xandalf

Originally posted by Dave
How many lives did the communist manifesto cost?

Zero. Communism under Lenin was drastically different than Communism under Stalin. The book didn't cost any lives, circumstances and insane dictators did.

Cause and effect.

How many lives has the Bible cost?

I dont know where in the bible it tells people to murder. But if you can point that out to me I would be grateful.
And by the same measure, where in the Communist Manifesto is the incitement to murder?

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Nieninque
How many lives has the Bible cost?

I dont know where in the bible it tells people to murder. But if you can point that out to me I would be grateful.


Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)


Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)


Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)


There's tons more if you'd like I can send you a U2U

::edited to bold God's murdering words::

[Edited on 6-1-2005 by Wezas]

[Warriorbird]

Some people starved under Lenin style Communism, so the Manifesto cost some lives. You can't really blame Stalin/Mao's actions on it, however.

[Gan]

Whats really scary is that people can be incited to kill, go to war, etc. by what is suggested or stated in the printed word. Allowing someone to have that kind of power over you is just beyond my scope of understanding. Unless you're just looking for any excuse to perform such acts.

Reminds me of the court cases where the act of murder was blamed on the lyrics of rap/rock music.

It has been said that the pen is mightier than the sword. But it never mentioned the idiots who wield the pen or the sword that suggest/provoke such things if that is indeed their intent and the interpretation is correct.

You've gotta be shitting me. Dave, seriously on one hand your saying that the cause and effect of the situation is that a book caused the murder of millions of people and it is irrelevent whether or not that was the original purpose of the book and on the other you look for an exact quote that specifically says "KILL" when the same could be said for one as the other.

The point is that there is nothing inherently wrong with communism. In fact, the communist manifesto is a very GOOD book that should be read by more people. That doesn't mean that Marx or Engel are ultimately responsible for the actions of people who would use their words to manipulate and oppress others, just as Jesus Christ, Esra and anybody else associated with the bible isn't responsible for those who would twist their works into something completely different and completely evil.

As I'm paying for internet access and don't have alot of time to spare I'll explain why I think it's a good book.

The book is one of the very first ones that touches on the problem that is endemic to society through time. That is poverty and the overall effects it has on society. The book is absolutely 100% right in that peace or any semblence thereof will never be achieved as long as there is significant inequality in the world. Where the book begins to fail is the supposed solutions to the problem, as they are too optimistic and totally miss the point of the human nature.

That said, it is often said that the first step to solving a problem is recognizing it and ultimately identifying the problem which the book goes along way in doing. It's a shame that we can not reject the bad parts while not accepting the good. Attaching a stigma on a work simply because of other peoples interpretation and implementation of it is highly ignorant and any academia who does so should be stoned with mountain dew cans.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Idiots translating the bible or any other religious text have caused far more evil in this world that Hitler's psychotic babble.


'Nuff said.

[Nieninque]

Cool post D :thumbsup:

[Jadewolff]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Cool post D :thumbsup:

I agree. That was a wonderful explanation.

All those books suck.

Highlights magazine is the greatest publication ever.

[Sean of the Thread]

COSMO is in the top ten worse for society.... women believe in it more than the Bible! Whenever a women says "take this poll honey" I say take this pole bitch and get out the door.

Originally posted by RangerD1
You've gotta be shitting me. Dave, seriously on one hand your saying that the cause and effect of the situation is that a book caused the murder of millions of people and it is irrelevent whether or not that was the original purpose of the book and on the other you look for an exact quote that specifically says "KILL" when the same could be said for one as the other.

The point is that there is nothing inherently wrong with communism. In fact, the communist manifesto is a very GOOD book that should be read by more people. That doesn't mean that Marx or Engel are ultimately responsible for the actions of people who would use their words to manipulate and oppress others, just as Jesus Christ, Esra and anybody else associated with the bible isn't responsible for those who would twist their works into something completely different and completely evil.

I stand corrected.

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
All those books suck.

Highlights magazine is the greatest publication ever.

Could you ever find all of the hidden pictures in that, I always had one or two that I never could find on each one.

[Ebondale]

All in all the 'Holy' Bible and the Qu`ran have been far more harmful books than any on that list.

I would not say that, both books have brought about more good than bad.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Dave
I would not say that, both books have brought about more good than bad.

Your opinion, of course.

I'm sure most homosexuals and people of other religion find the bible's bigotry on the "less good" side.

(I realize I'm leaving quite a few people out, those were just the first two coming to mind)

[xtc]

Originally posted by Dave
How many lives has the Bible cost?

I dont know where in the bible it tells people to murder. But if you can point that out to me I would be grateful. [/quote]


There are numerous directions in the old testament to kill. Muslims have followed the old testament laws when setting up Sharia law. Alot of these directions to murder have been purged from modern Bibles but check a 17th Century one.

MURDER IN THER BIBLE

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:



Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

I do agree that most of the books on that list are dangerous. Certainly Marx's, just look at the 20 million killed under Stalin. The millions killed by Mao and the freedoms in Cuba. Mein Kempf how many people were killed in World War 2? Books create thoughts, ideas which some people will act upon. Marx's ideas help create one of the most brutal regimes of the last century.

[Ebondale]

The Bible never killed anybody. :rolleyes:

*cough*Crusades*cough*

[GSTamral]

<<
The book is one of the very first ones that touches on the problem that is endemic to society through time. That is poverty and the overall effects it has on society. The book is absolutely 100% right in that peace or any semblence thereof will never be achieved as long as there is significant inequality in the world. Where the book begins to fail is the supposed solutions to the problem, as they are too optimistic and totally miss the point of the human nature.
>>

Inequality is inevitable when there is a constraint on resources. As for it being an endemic problem, yes, it is, but it is an inherent problem defined by the very nature of multiple beings existing with a finite amount of resources to distribute. Ignoring the basics of economics and replacing it with pig vomit is not a good way to define a social structure. As for the book being right about peace, that is a farce. So long as people can go so far as to contact one another, or have boundaries defined between them, there can never be 100% peace. Secondly, the application of communism, or socialism, is one defined by the reclassfying of power in terms of pure political power as opposed to a system defined by political power, monetary power, and social power. This allows only one avenue to create social change, which, in truth, is actually more unstable then when there are multiple avenues of creating change, because the only means to create change is via a revolutionary act. Due to the fact that by nature, a person may not be resistant to change, but people as a whole are, this leaves either violence, or massive social upheaval as the only avenue. It attempts to place a political solution that holds truth only in formula, but ignores the very basis of freedom and choice itself. So long as not everyone in the world is not on the same page, we will not have peace, regardless of internal socioeconomic problems.

<<
That said, it is often said that the first step to solving a problem is recognizing it and ultimately identifying the problem which the book goes along way in doing. It's a shame that we can not reject the bad parts while not accepting the good. Attaching a stigma on a work simply because of other peoples interpretation and implementation of it is highly ignorant and any academia who does so should be stoned with mountain dew cans.
>>

One of the few good things about this book is the fact that it not only identifies the underlying labor problem that was being created by the combination of capitalism and greed, it also outlined the other extreme, in the form of communism. It fails, however, to highlight what the potential problems in a single themed, non-free, but "Utopian" society would be. Gone are such choices as how many children you can have, because limitations on resources dictate what the population threshhold can be. Gone are most attempts at invention, because funding cannot exist to support things are non practical in the near term. Instead, the only avenue for technological and resource enhancement is innovation, or redefining existing knowledge for better practical usage.

Is it a good read? Sure, if you're willing to read it as a work in the progress of thought.
Is it recommended reading? It presents itself in a manner more reminiscent of the Silmarillion then anything else, and it has been created using a "noble" concept with a flawed implementation. Not something I'd recommend as a read unless someone were interested in such types of reading.

[GSTamral]

None of these books ever killed anyone. The Bible is really nothing more than a person collecting some morals and putting it into a book to be used for the foundation of Christianity. Same with the Qu'ran, or most any other work. I don't believe the Bible or any other of these works to be any more valid a work of god than your typical Bernstein Bear book. But to claim those books claimed lives is asinine. People misinterpret them and use it as a basis for action, the same way 13 year olds watch wrestling on TV and kill 5 year olds by slamming them into walls. While the medium may have inspired the action, it is not the fault of the person who wrote it with good intentions. It is social Darwinism at work. An easy, yet simple way to isolate the sheep and the stupid.

[Ebondale]

People misinterpret them and use it as a basis for action, the same way 13 year olds watch wrestling on TV and kill 5 year olds by slamming them into walls.

But the same could be said about The Communist Mannifesto or Mein Kampf.

[xtc]

Originally posted by GSTamral
None of these books ever killed anyone. The Bible is really nothing more than a person collecting some morals and putting it into a book to be used for the foundation of Christianity. Same with the Qu'ran, or most any other work. I don't believe the Bible or any other of these works to be any more valid a work of god than your typical Bernstein Bear book. But to claim those books claimed lives is asinine. People misinterpret them and use it as a basis for action, the same way 13 year olds watch wrestling on TV and kill 5 year olds by slamming them into walls. While the medium may have inspired the action, it is not the fault of the person who wrote it with good intentions. It is social Darwinism at work. An easy, yet simple way to isolate the sheep and the stupid.


But do they incite people to commit murder?

You in the 21st Century as an educated, affluent man and a free thinker (with some Repub bias) don't put too much stock in these books. However imagine poor, desperate, uneducated people looking for answers 50-100-1000 years ago.

[Jebus]

Originally posted by Ebondale
This list is bogus.

1. The Communist Manifesto
2. Mein Kampf
3. Quotations from Chairman Mao
4. The Kinsey Report
5. Democracy and Education
6. Das Kapital
7. The Feminine Mystique
8. The Course of Positive Philosophy
9. Beyond Good and Evil
10. General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money


I Assureth thee thon brethren that these indeed are books of the devil and shouldst be burnt.

[GSTamral]

<<
But do they incite people to commit murder?

You in the 21st Century as an educated, affluent man and a free thinker (with some Repub bias) don't put too much stock in these books. However imagine poor, desperate, uneducated people looking for answers 50-100-1000 years ago.

>>

It depends how you look at things. People incite other people to commit murder through their own systems of beliefs. Using that definition, the Bible and Qu'ran are weapons of mass destruction of an order greater than any nuclear device. The Communist Manifesto pales in comparison to the old Testament, which was used by the old Jews to commit genocide against whomever the Rabbi determined to be the flavor of the month. The Qu'ran is being used on a daily basis by Islamic priests to incite people to commit heinous acts, and the Bible was the foundation of the crusades. I dislike organized religion for that very purpose, because it is the inspiration of the sheep to do the bidding of the herder, and it causes people to forget common sense and lose their own senses of free will in the name of God. But it isn't the book that is doing it. Leaders can be good, bad, and more commonly, a collection of both. Hitler was an excellent leader who brought prosperity to his people, but for him, Jewish people were the rallying cry. He used the Bible and Faith and turned it into some rather monstrous acts. Bin .Laden does the same thing with the Qu'ran. Many people desire the leadership and are willing to follow any and all orders presented to them. If the Bible didn't exist, I'm sure another work could be referenced and interpreted in such a manner to incite people to conduct barbarious acts.

The people didn't rise up on their own after reading the Old Testament in fierce determination to kill all believers of Christ on their own. Some religious Jewish leader made a decision and people went along for the ride. The Christians didn't go out on the crusades for shits and giggles either. The Church led the assault. Any work can be interpreted as a means to incite action. So can film. So can any form of media. Books are probably the least damaging and least offensive forms of propaganda. It is the people who take them and use them as a basis of action that causes the problem.

There will always be violence. The only changes with time are the leaders who lead people into the violence and out. They get to choose who gets attacked, how and where. Until someone is able to devise a machine that makes resources from thin air, so everything is plentiful (and even then I'm sure people will find some reason to argue), there will always be a state of flux. Before you brand books as the culprits of violence, remember these concepts.

1) Change is usually a violent act, even if not in the act, often in the aftermath.
2) Anything that shifts or negatively impacts the status quo even for the minority will usually result in mass unhappiness.
3) An individual is a free thinker. When placed into a group, a human is a social animal, and the sheer peer pressure will force conformity from the majority. Those that do not are typically ostracized.
4) Leaders are free thinkers. Leaders will always find one thing or another to argue with one another. It is simply a matter of time until a resolution is made by a show of force.
5) Often in retrospect, wars make no sense, because we are not capable of thinking in the same mindset as people of the time and place did.
6) People can be killed for reasoning as nonsensical as what side of the bread gets the butter. Even when it appears that there is no reason for violence, violence finds a way.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by GSTamral

Is it a good read? Sure, if you're willing to read it as a work in the progress of thought.
Is it recommended reading? It presents itself in a manner more reminiscent of the Silmarillion then anything else, and it has been created using a "noble" concept with a flawed implementation. Not something I'd recommend as a read unless someone were interested in such types of reading.

ALL reading with the possible exception of 'hard' scientific facts should be read with that mindset.

Anyone that takes ANY single book or work as "the answer" is just asking for pain.

So I echo Ranger's point of how it should be read by most/all people.

[GSTamral]

<<

ALL reading with the possible exception of 'hard' scientific facts should be read with that mindset.

Anyone that takes ANY single book or work as "the answer" is just asking for pain.

So I echo Ranger's point of how it should be read by most/all people.
>>

And I reiterate again, for the same reason that I would not recommend the Bible or the Qu'ran as books everyone should read, I echo the same about the Communist Manifesto. Reading it for the sake of everyone should read it is pointless. People will not be able to take anything out of it unless they are interested in reading about that subject matter, and willing to read it not as a work of dogma, but rather as one of a train of thought that is often misinterpreted as a solution. Reading things for the sake of everyone should only strengthens beliefs, or disbeliefs in the readings.

Someone who was raised in a manner that taught themselves very little about politics, but was ingrained with a hatred of communism for no other reason than to hate it because it was bad, will surely be able to take select passages from the work, misinterpret the hell out of it, and only strengthen their own ignorance.

I'd prefer they not read it in the first place rather than be able to spread more BS with specific grains of out of context text to back their claims.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Whats really scary is that people can be incited to kill, go to war, etc. by what is suggested or stated in the printed word. Or spoken, which is even worse. But, I totally get your point. Wars have been faught and won because of the printed and written word... word.

[Asha]

Veronica decides to die.

I quit my job and changed my life.
It stopped me in my tracks.
Only hurtful to the people I left behind. Not to me.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by GSTamral

And I reiterate again, for the same reason that I would not recommend the Bible or the Qu'ran as books everyone should read, I echo the same about the Communist Manifesto. Reading it for the sake of everyone should read it is pointless. People will not be able to take anything out of it unless they are interested in reading about that subject matter, and willing to read it not as a work of dogma, but rather as one of a train of thought that is often misinterpreted as a solution. Reading things for the sake of everyone should only strengthens beliefs, or disbeliefs in the readings.

Someone who was raised in a manner that taught themselves very little about politics, but was ingrained with a hatred of communism for no other reason than to hate it because it was bad, will surely be able to take select passages from the work, misinterpret the hell out of it, and only strengthen their own ignorance.

I'd prefer they not read it in the first place rather than be able to spread more BS with specific grains of out of context text to back their claims.

It is exactly that sort of teaching of hate/prejudiced that RELIES on ommission of so many great works.

Education can be THE key to helping stop so many of the problems in our society here in the US and worldwide. A wide ranging broad based inclusive education would render the majority of most extremist groups innefective an unable to garner new members if more people were allowed/required to read such works.

More reading, not less is the answer.

[Edited on 6-1-2005 by Skirmisher]

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by GSTamral
It depends how you look at things. People incite other people to commit murder through their own systems of beliefs. Using that definition, the Bible and Qu'ran are weapons of mass destruction of an order greater than any nuclear device.

Agreeing so far.


The Communist Manifesto pales in comparison to the old Testament, which was used by the old Jews to commit genocide against whomever the Rabbi determined to be the flavor of the month.[

Ding .. knew it wouldn't be long.

An excellent example of an uneducation observation.

First, rabbis didn't gain any "power" until well after the crucifixion of Christ. The term you're looking for is priest or more specifically Pharacies.

Where in history have Jews committed genocide? Do keep in mind that every passage pertaining to god's wrath and destruction of an enemy of Israel so severe that not one enemy (man, woman or child) was left alive are generally found in the writings (KETHUVIM), which have always been considered moral fiction. Though the texts were not removed, they have been the biggest shame the Jews carry to date and have carried for a few thousand years now.


The people didn't rise up on their own after reading the Old Testament in fierce determination to kill all believers of Christ on their own.

Lost me ... what are you referring to?

[Edited on 6-2-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[Back]

Considering the source of this list, it plays right into the stereotypical theme of the affluent trying to keep the common man down.

[longshot]

Originally posted by GSTamral




http://forum.gsplayers.com/images/upload/Longshot/1179.jpg



We haven't forgotten...

I can't speak for anyone else, but until you admit that you lied and completely overreacted in a lame attempt to sound tough, I'm ignoring all posts that you make.

I will not respond to anything that you write, and I will not respond to those that quote you. If others follow my lead, then so be it. The enjoyment that I get making you sound stupid is significantly less than having to hear you think you are important on any level.

You're simply not worth it.

I'll keep writing here about other stuff, and you keep stalking chicks... we'll both do what we're best at.

I suggest you spend some of your phat six figure bank roll on therapy to deal with your issues of inadaquacy.

To stay on topic, which I really want to by the way, I think the makers of this list overlooked "The Turner Diaries".

It's a handbook on how to start a racewar in the United States. One of the "fans" of this book (follower?) did kill over 150 people when he blew up the federal buidling in Oklahoma City.

I'd still put this book #2 behind anything that says women can legally drive.

Don't give me any shit about the chick at the Indy 500, either. There's 3 billion of you. Congrats... one of you is professional enough not to threaten wiping out an entire family while putting on eye-liner.


Edited for grammar

[Edited on 6-2-2005 by longshot]

[DCSL]

I.. I feel like so much less of a woman. I don't even wear eyeliner. I need to go out and kill someone with it.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by longshot
To stay on topic, which I really want to by the way, I think the makers of this list overlooked "The Turner Diaries".

It's a handbook on how to start a racewar in the United States. One of the "fans" of this book (follower?) did kill over 150 people when he blew up the federal buidling in Oklahoma City.

But what makes a book dangerous to these conservatives is not how many people die because of it. What's dangerous is whether it gives alternate views of what is acceptable and if it promotes independant thinking thereby causing them to question the voice of (their) authority.

Because it's used as an excuse to kill people? Big deal.

Raven

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by longshot

To stay on topic, which I really want to by the way, I think the makers of this list overlooked "The Turner Diaries".

It's a handbook on how to start a racewar in the United States. One of the "fans" of this book (follower?) did kill over 150 people when he blew up the federal buidling in Oklahoma City.


Bingo! Wow, how I forgot about that one I do not know.

That is however yet another book that i would use to prove my point. The Turner Diaries is perhaps one of two or three books that too many of those terribly ignorant white supremecists have read in their lifetime so to them this is like this huge revelation. It should instead be just one of countless books that they have read and seen for the pablum it truly is.

To see the truth requires a better overall understanding of the world, not just the few words that someone has decided to funnel to you.

More reading, more knowledge is always better.



Originally posted by longshot
I'd still put this book #2 behind anything that says women can legally drive.

Don't give me any shit about the chick at the Indy 500, either. There's 3 billion of you. Congrats... one of you is professional enough not to threaten wiping out an entire family while putting on eye-liner.

Edited for grammar

[Edited on 6-2-2005 by longshot]
:die:

[Back]

Number nine. Beyond Good and Evil (http://www.mala.bc.ca/~johnstoi/Nietzsche/beyondgoodandevil5.htm) by Nietzsche.

The following translation has been prepared by Ian Johnston of Malaspina University-College, Nanaimo, BC

[Edited on 6-2-2005 by Backlash]

[Edaarin]

Feminist Mystique.

Oh man that did that cause problems...luckily, it's illegal for women to read in the South.

The book that had Albert Einstein on the cover and had that smaller-circled patterned circle thingy that when you spun around was super cool and would look extremely optical illusion-eque.

I think there was another Explorabook with an aluminum cover.

Those pretty much have, are and will continue to be the downfall of society.

[GSTamral]

<<

We haven't forgotten...

I can't speak for anyone else, but until you admit that you lied and completely overreacted in a lame attempt to sound tough, I'm ignoring all posts that you make.

I will not respond to anything that you write, and I will not respond to those that quote you. If others follow my lead, then so be it. The enjoyment that I get making you sound stupid is significantly less than having to hear you think you are important on any level.

You're simply not worth it.
>>

Considering the time you took to write it, attach a picture, and edit it around, you're hypocrisy is evidence itself of your ability to do nothing other than make assumptions and seek attention through hatred and lies, the very same thing you assume upon myself. Congratulations and welcome to the club.

[Wezas]

Latrin isn't seeking attention. He's speaking his mind.

Example of seeking attention (http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=14427)

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Considering the time you took to write it, attach a picture, and edit it around, you're hypocrisy is evidence itself of your ability to do nothing other than make assumptions and seek attention through hatred and lies, the very same thing you assume upon myself. Congratulations and welcome to the club.
No one has to assume anything about you, there’s a whole thread showcasing your attention seeking “through hatred and lies”.

Considering how far removed from reality you must be to not realize you’re a joke, it’s not surprising how you don’t see the difference between you and longshot.

On topic, even those that deem these works hurtful can’t doubt they were/are influential. The very fact they find the books so dangerous testifies to that. If that’s the case, even more reason for them to be studied.

nequality is inevitable when there is a constraint on resources. As for it being an endemic problem, yes, it is, but it is an inherent problem defined by the very nature of multiple beings existing with a finite amount of resources to distribute. Ignoring the basics of economics and replacing it with pig vomit is not a good way to define a social structure.

Not neccessarily true Tamral. There are plenty examples of societies and nations that have maintained am equitable nation. It's not about *making* everybody equal its about giving everyone an equal opprutunity to live up to their potential.


So long as people can go so far as to contact one another, or have boundaries defined between them, there can never be 100% peace.

Who here said anything about 100% peace? I think the world would be retty drag without some form of conflict.

The difference is between minor conflicts between me and you because I hacked ur uber leet laptop at the coffee shop and me participating in the systematic purging of cocksuckers like you.


This allows only one avenue to create social change, which, in truth, is actually more unstable then when there are multiple avenues of creating change, because the only means to create change is via a revolutionary act.

So it's your contention that within the capitalistic and opprutunistic society that we now exist in that conflict or "Revolution" as you call it has never been neccessary to bring about a desired change? I'd say the people who fought and died in a modern western war would surely disagree with you. I'd say the people like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X would as well.

The farce is that the only real way to order things is in a dog eat dog world where no one gives a fuck about the man next to him, assuming of course that he can't do anything for you.

The system you support is no less bloody than any other that has been tried throughout time.


People will not be able to take anything out of it unless they are interested in reading about that subject matter, and willing to read it not as a work of dogma, but rather as one of a train of thought that is often misinterpreted as a solution. Reading things for the sake of everyone should only strengthens beliefs, or disbeliefs in the readings.

Someone who was raised in a manner that taught themselves very little about politics, but was ingrained with a hatred of communism for no other reason than to hate it because it was bad, will surely be able to take select passages from the work, misinterpret the hell out of it, and only strengthen their own ignorance.

I'd prefer they not read it in the first place rather than be able to spread more BS with specific grains of out of context text to back their claims.

Just wow.

So your solution to combating ignorance is to advocate it? I already know the answer, but are you fucking stupid?

The fear that a particular work will cause some semblence of harm is far more dangerous than the work itself. When you attach a stigma to anything then people will believe what they are told to believe without formulating their own opinions of it. If you don't want ignorance then you don't hide, or limit.

Your entire premise is so ridiculously stupid I don't even know what to say.

[Fallen]

Freidrich Nietzsche is one of the most enlightening authors I have ever read. "God is dead" is a quote that is too often taken out of context.

One of Nietzsche's most repeated statements is that his work should never be looked at bit by bit. One must understand all of what he is trying to say before they can judge but a portion of his work.

[CrystalTears]

RangerD quoting and talking back to Tamral

Ranger, I find you so incredibly hot right now. And the thought that not only are you intelligent but a fucking hottie, I just splooshed with this last post. :drool: :heart:

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

RangerD quoting and talking back to Tamral

Ranger, I find you so incredibly hot right now. And the thought that not only are you intelligent but a fucking hottie, I just splooshed with this last post. :drool: :heart:

:yeahthat:

(Well, except for that last part.)

Raven

[DeV]

Originally posted by longshot
I'd still put this book #2 behind anything that says women can legally drive.
Age-old baseless stereotyping. Dates back to men having a higher assessment of their driving skills than women. The fact is, women are equal to, if not better drivers than men.

I think the term is self actualization.

[CrystalTears]

For every woman that is putting on eyeliner, there is a man shaving.

Both men and women have their flawed drivers. It's a bunch of hype.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by longshot
I'd still put this book #2 behind anything that says women can legally drive.
Age-old baseless stereotyping.


http://christianparty.net/womend1.gif

http://christianparty.net/womend2.gif

I may or may not be able to validate the charts above

[GSTamral]

<<
Your entire premise is so ridiculously stupid I don't even know what to say.
>>

My "premise" is what led to McCarthyism, something no one wants to see happen again.

[Back]

Originally posted by GSTamral
My "premise" is what led to McCarthyism, something no one wants to see happen again.

Not quite to the extent it was in the past, but its getting closer. Now, consider who was behind it then, and who is behind the list that started this thread.

Coincidence? I think not!

[DeV]

Originally posted by Wezas
I may or may not be able to validate the charts above Nice try.

Lets add the rates of death, coupled with alcohol and drug comsumption and it's not a pretty picture.

[Tsa`ah]

Gee ... no answer to my question. Go figure.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Wezas
I may or may not be able to validate the charts above Nice try.

Lets add the rates of death, coupled with alcohol and drug comsumption and it's not a pretty picture.

Rates of death I imagine would be higher amonst women. I'm assuming since most aren't built as well as men to take the hits from accidents.

As to whom causes the accident - that's probably a different story.

[Back]

Originally posted by Wezas
I'm assuming since most aren't built as well as men to take the hits from accidents.


What about built in air bags?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Wezas
Rates of death I imagine would be higher amonst women.
Males are twice as likely as females to die in motor vehicle traffic accidents. And this is just in the 15-24 age group... Nearly 3 times more men than women die in car accidents.


I'm assuming since most aren't built as well as men to take the hits from accidents.Or men don't wear seatbelts as often as women.


As to whom causes the accident - that's probably a different story. Because alcohol, drugs, not wearing a seatbelt, and engaging in risky behavior are not reason enough.

There are some shit ass women drivers and there are some shit ass men drivers. The stereotypes have about played themselves out imo.

[Hulkein]

All I know is The Iliad was pretty harmful to me freshman year of HS.

I almost killed myself six times at how boring it was, coupled with the fact that the teacher was half dead.

Originally posted by GSTamral
<<
Your entire premise is so ridiculously stupid I don't even know what to say.
>>

My "premise" is what led to McCarthyism, something no one wants to see happen again.


Okay?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by GSTamral

My "premise" is what led to McCarthyism, something no one wants to see happen again.

If by "your premise" you mean your desire to keep people from reading certain books, yes he loved that kind of stuff.

[Wezas]

All I know is if a driver meets these 3 requirements:

1) Female
2) Asian
3) Old

I pull over on the side of the road and wait for them to be totally out of sight.