Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty

[Rimalon]

EIGHT DAYS REMAIN UNTIL RELEASE!

Who's getting it?

Who wants to play with Dan and I?

WHO'S PUMPED?!

Look how BALLER my profile is!

[Drew]

Did you read the article on how SCII cost 100 million to develop?


http://www.gamepron.com/news/2010/07/17/starcraft-ii-cost-100-million-to-develop/

[Ribbons]

Zerg Rush > EVERY OTHER FUCKING STRATEGY

Oh, you like turrets all around your base? LOL ZERG RUSH

Oh, you like heavy units that deal massive damage? LOL ZERG RUSH

On a serious note, not really. I was over Star Craft when I beat the story mode and found myself being raped by Zerglings in every online battle. Call me a bitter loser but I think I'll pass.

[Jayvn]

so they only have to sell 2.5 million copies to break even? i'm fairly certain they'll do that in south korea on hour 1

[Gelston]

I'm looking forward to this when I get back, along with read dead redemption, the expansion to dawn of war II, the new fallout, and lots of other shit that is out/coming out

[Jayvn]

Zerg Rush > EVERY OTHER FUCKING STRATEGY

Oh, you like turrets all around your base? LOL ZERG RUSH

Oh, you like heavy units that deal massive damage? LOL ZERG RUSH

On a serious note, not really. I was over Star Craft when I beat the story mode and found myself being raped by Zerglings in every online battle. Call me a bitter loser but I think I'll pass.

you forgot... want to win Alterac Valley?

[Ribbons]

you forgot... want to win Alterac Valley?

Want to win almost any map? LOL ZERG RUSH

[Gelston]

That's why I used to play the scenario maps. Madness was fun, it was probably also 10 years since I played.

[Danical]

Fortunately, the 4-pool (6/7 pool now) ling rush isn't a viable strat anymore.

A lot of this has to do with insanely better map construction.

[Jayvn]

the mayans predicted Diablo 3 would be released on Dec 21 of 2012... thus ending most of humanity.. everyone will forget they have life outside of diablo, and Deckard Cain will cause people to forget they have to eat in real life because they feel too guilty walking away from him while he says
"Stay awhile and listen"

[Sean of the Thread]

Zerg Rush > EVERY OTHER FUCKING STRATEGY

Oh, you like turrets all around your base? LOL ZERG RUSH

Oh, you like heavy units that deal massive damage? LOL ZERG RUSH

On a serious note, not really. I was over Star Craft when I beat the story mode and found myself being raped by Zerglings in every online battle. Call me a bitter loser but I think I'll pass.


This.

Pisses me off actually that I wasted money on this game. I thought there would be more strategy to it.

[Drinin]

I'm in. Pre-ordered the collector's edition like 2 months ago.

[StrayRogue]

lol @ zerg rush. There's a reason why pro players don't ever use this tactic.

[Stretch]

omgomg who wants to listen to iron maiden while sc'ing it up

[Ribbons]

lol @ zerg rush. There's a reason why pro players don't ever use this tactic.

I suppose I never made it to the 'pro' level since everyone around me was whipping my ass with a unit cap of Zerglings.

I'll leave the pro game to you. Do me proud good sir.
/Salute

[Danical]

omgomg who wants to listen to iron maiden while sc'ing it up

Obviously, this is the only way to play SC.

[Stunseed]

Guess I'm lame, but depending on the terrain, I used bunkers + siege mode terran vehicles to stop the lolzergrush.

[Sean of the Thread]

Man I've been zerged to oblivion having 12 siege tanks behind 5 bunkers.

I really suck at this game.

I was good at age of empires. /shrug

[TheEschaton]

Age of Empires was pro as hell.

[Kuyuk]

I plan on getting this when it comes out. Will be working a lot, but plan on devoting my spare time to it.

[nub]

Guess I'm lame, but depending on the terrain, I used bunkers + siege mode terran vehicles to stop the lolzergrush.

If someone lolzergrushed you by the time you had siege mode and/or tanks, then they are doing it wrong.

[nub]

EIGHT DAYS REMAIN UNTIL RELEASE!

Who's getting it?

Who wants to play with Dan and I?

WHO'S PUMPED?!

Look how BALLER my profile is!

I'll play with you guys, though I still need to get a new video card.

[Loyrl]

pre ordered and been playing beta. Although lately just ums.

[Clove]

the mayans predicted Diablo 3 would be released on Dec 21 of 2012... thus ending most of humanity.. everyone will forget they have life outside of diablo, and Deckard Cain will cause people to forget they have to eat in real life because they feel too guilty walking away from him while he says
"Stay awhile and listen"I would rep you for this if I could. Interestingly 7 days from release and I still don't see any platform requirements...

[Clove]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/07/excellence-of-execution-video-of-starcraft-mastery.ars

Gentlemen (and women) here's your competition :D

[Danical]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/07/excellence-of-execution-video-of-starcraft-mastery.ars

Gentlemen (and women) here's your competition :D

Not a dig on Nada or Moon but they're no Flash or Jaedong.

[Celephais]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/07/excellence-of-execution-video-of-starcraft-mastery.ars

Gentlemen (and women) here's your competition :D

He's clicking a lot of buttons but the look of the video he doesn't appear to be accomplishing all that much with each. I'm probably woefully misinformed, but it looks like he's just cycling through units and not handing out a whole lot of commands. If that's what they're constituting as an action in that APM metric, I don't think it's nearly as telling as they seem to think it is. (Someone who could know how quickly their units health was depleting based simply on the fact that they know what's attacking it, wouldn't need to perform as many actions and could react better for example).

[Atlanteax]

Basically seemed like he was artificially inflating his APM, which probably is not a *real* metric.

[Clove]

Looked to me like he was cycling and selecting through a lot of units and giving keyboard commands while very quickly using his mouse to designate target/areas and pan around the map.

I think you definintely need to be able to quickly pull up the status of units as well as eyeball the map to be competitive. I'm sure these guys know approx how long it takes one unit to destroy another, but given the range of possibilities I'm not sure how a (human) player could use that information practically and effectively. There's a reason why the units have status displays.

Artificial or not, I'm pretty sure these guys could collectively kick our asses at any game they play; seems kind of silly to say "I think your skills are hyped and you're not playing your game as efficiently as it could be played..." I could be wrong. Cele, you been kicking ass on the pro video game circuit?

[Danical]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Yun-Yeol

^Nada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jang_Jae_Ho

^Moon

[Clove]

Dude. 1/2 million dollars to play WC3?!

[Danical]

Don't forget sponsors and whatnot!

[Celephais]

Looked to me like he was cycling and selecting through a lot of units and giving keyboard commands while very quickly using his mouse to designate target/areas and pan around the map.

I think you definintely need to be able to quickly pull up the status of units as well as eyeball the map to be competitive. I'm sure these guys know approx how long it takes one unit to destroy another, but given the range of possibilities I'm not sure how a (human) player could use that information practically and effectively. There's a reason why the units have status displays.

Artificial or not, I'm pretty sure these guys could collectively kick our asses at any game they play; seems kind of silly to say "I think your skills are hyped and you're not playing your game as efficiently as it could be played..." I could be wrong. Cele, you been kicking ass on the pro video game circuit?

Well, I'm on the internet, so yeah, I'll claim I can kick their ass.

All I'm saying is it looks like a lot of these "actions" aren't all that productive, and that it there's no measure of efficiency to compliment the APM metric.

[Clove]

Yeah but not being anywhere near their league speculating on what is or isn't a necessary skill seems pointless to me. Both the Wiki's Danical linked observed that one of the reasons these two players are successful is because of their micro-managing skills; which I assume in a RTS game needs to be performed promptly.

In any case I have to believe that if competitive players generally demonstrate this kind of rapid command technique it's probably relevant to their success at playing and not some useless/superstitious tic they all coincidentally share. In otherwords, it probably is a decent metric.

[Rimalon]

All I'm saying is it looks like a lot of these "actions" aren't all that productive, and that it there's no measure of efficiency to compliment the APM metric.

You're right, mostly. They call it "spam" or "APM spam", and it involves cycling through your hotkeys, randomly grouping and clicking, etc. For instance, when they tell a unit to move, they will click 10-15 times (when you only NEED to click once.)

They do it because they believe it "warms up their hands", and gets them into a rhythm that allows their APM to stay at a high rate in a late-game situation.

That said, excessive spamming only really happens in the first 5-10 minutes of the game, when there isn't a lot to do except build workers and build your first structures.

There's two kinds of measured APM: APM, which includes spamming, and EAPM, or effective APM, which cuts out spamming.

I don't spam, personally, and both my APM/EAPM hover around 100. I've beaten players whose APM (including spamming) is 250-300.

If I didn't have a life, and turned pro at this game, and was playing 75-100 games a day, I've no doubt I would start spamming. It will make you faster, eventually, but only after hundreds and hundreds of games.

[Clove]

So that's all we have to do? Cycle through shit constantly?

[g++]

So that's all we have to do? Cycle through shit constantly?

Just watching those guys doing nothing I can tell if you actually had a complicated combat scenario with this guy whos gonna win...the dude who is used to cycling through 50 groupings of units blowing their special abilities individually and swarming the screen with all his units or me the dude thats gonna shift click some ensemble of whats on screen and auto attack the area....those guys are gonna blow you away because the idea of doing 300-400 special abilities in the length of a single combat situation isnt daunting to them.

[Celephais]

Clove was being sarcastic about just having to cycle g++, I'm not sure why he latched onto my comment as if I was saying they weren't doing anything, I say right in it that I'm woefully misinformed, but like Rim said, a lot of those clicks are, infact, doing nothing productive. I see him re-highlight a group several times at one point, reissue commands, etc. All I was pointing out is that they needed an EAPM, which Rim says they actually do have so...

[Danical]

When they track their Actions during a battle or leading directly up to it, it's fucking through the roof.

[g++]

They could also be setting macros for each unit, cycling through patrols to look for enemies....honestly just watching them makes me not want to play starcraft. It really brings the worst part about starcraft to light...skill in alot of ways is directly proportional to the amount of discomfort and bullshit minutia and micromanagement your willing to do.

[Clove]

Clove was being sarcastic about just having to cycle g++, I'm not sure why he latched onto my comment as if I was saying they weren't doing anything, I say right in it that I'm woefully misinformed, but like Rim said, a lot of those clicks are, infact, doing nothing productive. I see him re-highlight a group several times at one point, reissue commands, etc. All I was pointing out is that they needed an EAPM, which Rim says they actually do have so...Because it sounded like you were implying that because the very short video examples didn't look to you like they were doing anything useful that it 1) implied that they weren't really capable of such fast EAPM's 2) or that APM's weren't a useful metric.

Maybe I misinterpretted you but it seemed to me given that both guys were world class and were saying that other world class players had to be capable of this kind of intense skill to be competitive that 1) it was a good metric and 2) despite the <20 second example we were given, that they're capable of it.

Even Rim said that spamming will make you faster when you actually DO need to slam the commands.

I am kinda interested on what an average pro player puts out in EAPM's though. It's still gotta be pretty nasty, Cele.

[Rimalon]

I think I remember reading that Flash's APM is around 400, and his EAPM is usually stable at around 250.

These kids play 12-14 hours a day. When you've done the exact same thing over and over and over again, it's just natural that you'll get uber fast at it.

For 95% of potential Starcraft 2 players, you'll never need to be even close to that fast. It's why they've separated the leagues by skill level. You'll be playing against people at your own speed.

I WISH I WAS BORN A YOUNG KOREAN NERD, THOUGH!

[Celephais]

I'm sure they could kick my ass.. I'm not very good at multiplayer starcraft, I like building up my armies too much, and not thinking about strategic raids and stuff. I just like to max out tech and all that stuff, singleplayer is more my style (you heard me Anticor).

[nub]

They could also be setting macros for each unit, cycling through patrols to look for enemies....honestly just watching them makes me not want to play starcraft. It really brings the worst part about starcraft to light...skill in alot of ways is directly proportional to the amount of discomfort and bullshit minutia and micromanagement your willing to do.

You can easily chose not to play vs the absolute best players out there. In fact, you will never play against them. So you really don't have to worry about it.

[g++]

Yah I know, cause im not buying it lol.

[Clove]

Did Cele just say he prefers to play with himself?

[nub]

Yah I know, cause im not buying it lol.

nigguh WHAT

[Parkbandit]

I'm thinking about giving it a shot. I'm bored to tears of playing WoW and there is no other game that even is attractive to me at this point.

Should I try out the original game before playing SCII?

[Drew]

The original starcraft was fun but you won't need to have played it.

[Rimalon]

Should I try out the original game before playing SCII?

No... SC1 was so primitive, it would just confuse you if you learned it first.

I think.

[Celephais]

Did Cele just say he prefers to play with himself?

I zerg rush every time.

[Rimalon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_E83GfWM-A

...Official trailer for Starcraft 2, released today. Holy fuckballs.

You can tell why it took $100 mil to develop, I guess? Pretty EPICCCCC.

[Celephais]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_E83GfWM-A

...Official trailer for Starcraft 2, released today. Holy fuckballs.

You can tell why it took $100 mil to develop, I guess? Pretty EPICCCCC.

Fuuuuck me that looks awesome.

[Danical]

I'm a little bummed Glynnis Talken Campbell didn't do the voice acting for SC2.

I could give a fuck about Tricia Helfer.

[Drew]

I could give a fuck about Tricia Helfer.


YOU GO DIAF!!!!

[Parkbandit]

I'm a little bummed Glynnis Talken Campbell didn't do the voice acting for SC2.

I could give a fuck about Tricia Helfer.

You know how I know you are gay?

http://laopereta.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/sks-stuff-apr-2005-tricia-helfer-002.jpg

[Jarvan]

I plan on getting this game.

Back when it came out, the only thing better then our 6 hour Command and Conquer games was our 10 hour Starcraft games.

We played 4 people on my lan, and no one zerged.. mainly cause we would pour soup on them if they did. Nothing ruined a Gaming session more then that.

Only thing my one friend hated more the zerg rushes, was when I would have 20 ghosts surrounding his base all prepped to launch a nuke.

sadly.. I doubt we will have many good Lan games of SC II.. 3 of our friends ( out of 5 ) had the audacity to get married and have kids.. the jerks.

[Atlanteax]

I plan on getting this game.

Back when it came out, the only thing better then our 6 hour Command and Conquer games was our 10 hour Starcraft games.

We played 4 people on my lan, and no one zerged.. mainly cause we would pour soup on them if they did. Nothing ruined a Gaming session more then that.

Only thing my one friend hated more the zerg rushes, was when I would have 20 ghosts surrounding his base all prepped to launch a nuke.

sadly.. I doubt we will have many good Lan games of SC II.. 3 of our friends ( out of 5 ) had the audacity to get married and have kids.. the jerks.

Wow, my C&C and Starcraft experience was along the same lines, and I'm basically the only unmarried one left from that group.

[pabstblueribbon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_E83GfWM-A

...Official trailer for Starcraft 2, released today. Holy fuckballs.

You can tell why it took $100 mil to develop, I guess? Pretty EPICCCCC.

It does look awesome.. but.. those things with wings in space.. wtf would wings do for you in a vacuum?

[TheLastShamurai]

It does look awesome.. but.. those things with wings in space.. wtf would wings do for you in a vacuum?

Fly on solar winds bro!

[pabstblueribbon]

oh.. okay. heh.

[nub]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_E83GfWM-A

...Official trailer for Starcraft 2, released today. Holy fuckballs.

You can tell why it took $100 mil to develop, I guess? Pretty EPICCCCC.

Kerrigan looks awesome!

[pabstblueribbon]

In this house we obey the laws of aerodynamics!





Or whatever law of physics makes it possible to fly! Cause I dont really know the real answer!

[Sean of the Thread]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_E83GfWM-A

...Official trailer for Starcraft 2, released today. Holy fuckballs.

You can tell why it took $100 mil to develop, I guess? Pretty EPICCCCC.


Whilst the game will most obviously rock the cock it really doesn't look why it took $100 mil to develop.

Also obviously a good investment given the franchise. It would take a plague to cause them not to make five times that in return.

SC2 = round 2 of teenage Korean parents locking their babies in trunks for 36 hours of gaming marathon while continuing to piss me off somehow with their gay asian emoticons.

[StrayRogue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR0ZQaBVtsw&feature=player_embedded#!

[Rimalon]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

TWENTY HOURS LEFT!

I AM FREAKING OUTTTTTTTTTTT!

[Asrial]

Rimalon, how does it compare to SC1?

For example...

Command and Conquer 3 had the 'spirit' of Command and Conquer.

Red Alert 3 did NOT have the 'spirit' of Red Alert 2.

(in my opinion of course)

Does SC2 retain the feel of SC1 and seem like a worthy sequel or is it best to think of it as an entirely new beast?

[Clove]

Nobody knows...

[Sean of the Thread]

The gaming centers here have been playing for like the past month?

I'm going to guess someone knows...

At any rate I've never played H2H with anyone in SC1. Only the single player campaigns and sort of suck at those too.

[Rimalon]

Does SC2 retain the feel of SC1 and seem like a worthy sequel or is it best to think of it as an entirely new beast?

It most definitely has the feel of SC1. It plays even FASTER than SC1, honestly. As soon as you see a barracks building, and marines shooting zerglings... it's like good old times.

More than anything, though, and I've told people this, it's FUN. It doesn't really matter if you don't understand what's going on... it's fun to play and it's fun to watch, too.

People thought that the "upgrades" (automining, multiple building selection, all buildings creating solid walls) would ruin the game, and lower the skill cap. But it's so not true. They added enough other things to keep your APM occupied... AND THE GAME IS AWESOME.

TEN HOURS LEFTTTTTTTTTTTT!!11!!111!!11!!11!

[IorakeWarhammer]

Whilst the game will most obviously rock the cock it really doesn't look why it took $100 mil to develop.

Also obviously a good investment given the franchise. It would take a plague to cause them not to make five times that in return.

SC2 = round 2 of teenage Korean parents locking their babies in trunks for 36 hours of gaming marathon while continuing to piss me off somehow with their gay asian emoticons.

i bet you they have ways to micro that never existed in gaming history. its all about the micro. this is SC2. probably one of the most anticipated games ever (worldwide)

[HJFudge]

I am buying this at the midnight release!

If any of you wanna kill me in it, nows yer chaaaance! or thens your chance!

[Danical]

WHO'S WEARING HIS HWASEUNG SHIRT AND GOING TO A DAY[9] SPECIAL RELEASE PARTY WITH THE LIKES OF ARTOSIS AND TASTELESS?!!?!

THIS GUY!

[Parkbandit]

I've already pre-downloaded the content.. just waiting until tomorrow afternoon when I get home from work to validate it and play. Pretty excited about having a fun game to play again.. hope it lives up to the hype.

[Rimalon]

WHO'S WEARING HIS HWASEUNG SHIRT AND GOING TO A DAY[9] SPECIAL RELEASE PARTY WITH THE LIKES OF ARTOSIS AND TASTELESS?!!?!

THIS GUY!

TEXT ME WHEN SOMETHING CRAZY AWESOME HAPPENS!

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I am about to walk my azz over to Game Stop at the nearby mall and get my copy. EXCITED.

[Kuyuk]

Have to wait for the kid to go to bed before playing tomorrow, arrggh! ;-)

[Rimalon]

I am about to walk my azz over to Game Stop at the nearby mall and get my copy. EXCITED.

YEAH YOU ARE!

[StrayRogue]

Whilst the game will most obviously rock the cock it really doesn't look why it took $100 mil to develop.


It didnt cost $100 million to make.

[Sean of the Thread]

It didnt cost $100 million to make.

I haven't seen their ledger but EVERY article I've read says $100 million.

That's not counting money spent on marketing or advertising.

[Kuyuk]

yay, installed, drivers updated, just waiting until after work to purchase and play /drool

[HJFudge]

Im in the silver league. For what its worth!

[Parkbandit]

So? How is it??

[StrayRogue]

I haven't seen their ledger but EVERY article I've read says $100 million.

That's not counting money spent on marketing or advertising.

Then you've not read many articles, such as the follow-up/correction WSJ made to it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703467304575383443343071562.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

[Sean of the Thread]

Then you've not read many articles, such as the follow-up/correction WSJ made to it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703467304575383443343071562.html?m od=googlenews_wsj


Like I said I don't have their ledger all I had to go on was the articles.

So now we have hundreds of articles with the $100 million + advert/marketing and one paragraph in the WSJ countering that.

I hope it didn't cost $100 mil to make. That's absurd at any rate.

[StrayRogue]

Like I said I don't have their ledger all I had to go on was the articles.

So now we have hundreds of articles with the $100 million + advert/marketing and one paragraph in the WSJ countering that.


You're quibbling with the retraction made by the original article's publishers??

Okay.

The 100+ articles you've apparently read, you realize, all stemmed from that WSJ report. Considering I've read the report of this correction on two of the biggest (if not biggest) game blogs on the internet, I don't think we have to worry in terms of accuracy.

100 million for Wow is totally understandable. They make that in a month.

[Sean of the Thread]

You're quibbling with the retraction made by the original article's publishers??

Okay.

The 100+ articles you've apparently read, you realize, all stemmed from that WSJ report. Considering I've read the report of this correction on two of the biggest (if not biggest) game blogs on the internet, I don't think we have to worry in terms of accuracy.

100 million for Wow is totally understandable. They make that in a month.

I'm not quibbling shit.

I'm just saying my original post was based off what was out there prior to the retraction.

I really don't give a shit. I can't even play SC2 (would if I could) and WoW is gayer than Jordan from the new kids on the block.

[Celephais]

Incase you forgot the SC/Broodwar story:
http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/850126/starcraft-2/videos/starcraftin5_spc_072310b.html

Summary in 5 minutes. I had forgotten the whole broodwar story.

[Celephais]

Copy in hand ... no idea how I'm holding off right now.. but somehow I'm actually waiting til I'm done w/ work.

[TheLastShamurai]

Copy in hand ... no idea how I'm holding off right now.. but somehow I'm actually waiting til I'm done w/ work.

Why fight it...

[Numbers]

I've got my copy as well. Will probably try to sneak out of work early.

I'm worried that I'm going to install it and realize how horrible I am at this game. I was really really good at StarCraft. I had a nigh unbeatable strategy with vultures and siege tanks. But then Brood Wars came out and fucked my shit up. And this was before South Korea got their hands on the game and this actions per minute and build order shit was invented.

[Revalos]

I had to wait to order it from Amazon today to get my $20 discount I had from when I bought Red Dead Redemption earlier this year. Damn thing wouldn't work when it was a pre-order. A friend of mine is finally buying a recently produced Mac to play this thing, does anyone know if Mac vs. PC starcraft games are possible?

[Clove]

Yes.

[Revalos]

Yes.

Awesome.

[Rimalon]

if any of you nerds want to add me as friend and play with me/us at some point:

id: cokephone
character #: 493

DO IT UP!

[LMingrone]

For anyone that doesn't want to go to the store. You can DL the DVD online and then pay for the Key.

[Celephais]

Damn this game is AWESOME. Only played a couple multiplayer matches with some friends, and two campaign levels.

[Jarvan]

Damn this game is AWESOME. Only played a couple multiplayer matches with some friends, and two campaign levels.

I have only worked thru the story mode so far.

I have to say tho, I wish they let you use the researched tech in the multi-player maps.

So far, Seems like a real good game.. only downside.. 2 more installments to come.

Can't wait to get around to some multi-playing. If anyone want's to add me..

Char - Jarvan
Char ID - 951

[Sean of the Thread]

Wish I could afford it as I just realized it will work fine on my system specs. I didn't think it would.

[Atlanteax]

I played Campaign Mode some last night.

At first I face-palmed at the achievement system, but then realized that the majority of them are pretty legit (ie *all* objectives for a given mission) versus the "we'll give you an achievement for ANYTHING" in WoW.

Blizzard seriously did a good job with the Campaign Mode ... even though it is intended to be a MP game, I still felt "immersed" with the storyline, and being able to interact with stuff on the Hyperion is pretty cool. You can see how things are changing as the campaign progresses.

I had to laugh at the dancing night elf hologram. They also put in a mini-game via an arcade.

[Izzy]

Damn this game is AWESOME. Only played a couple multiplayer matches with some friends, and two campaign levels.

:yeahthat:

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally donations for the jersey effort were going mostly towards paying off a credit card however some of it will be allocated towards SC2.

Games are a good way to distract me from being dequarter'd ya know.

[Parkbandit]

Damn this game is AWESOME. Only played a couple multiplayer matches with some friends, and two campaign levels.

Look like we are about at the same place in the game.

Anyone else think the carriers are OP? In a co-op game with a friend, I died to both computer players zerging me... then my friend destroyed both bases with 3 carriers. I ended up playing Protoss the next game and absolutely rolled.

[Liberi Fatali]

Wow, anyone read the first few reviews so far? Brutal. Particularly, on Amazon.com. The user reviews are giving in 1-3 stars. Everyone is complaining about a few things that I see so far:

1. There's no more LAN (why the). Not that I used this anyone for the original Starcraft except way back in high school in 2000 or so.

2. There's no chat?!!? Is that true?! I remember the original Battle Net having a chat feature, because you would go into the chatrooms. Or is it there is no chatting during GAME PLAY? If that's the case, how do you talk to your teammates?!

3. Terran are overpowered. I only see this in a few reviews so far. Everyone is also saying Zerg are terribly weak.

4. Of course, the $60 price tag for only 1/3 of the game.

5. You have to sign on the Internet to play SINGLE PLAYER mode. Is that true, too?! That sucks.

[Parkbandit]

1. Used to love LAN parties.. not sure why they stopped that option.

2. They have chat and also voice chat. I'm so used to using vent, so didn't try either.

3. I found Protoss(?) more OP than terran.. but Zerg seemed weak as hell. Granted, that is 3 hours worth of playing.

[Parkbandit]

Fucking posting on an iPhone sucks.

4. Yea, $180 is a bit steep for a game, but I spent more for WoW.

5. That would REALLY suck.. since this game would be one of those 1 player games you would play with no Internet.

[Atlanteax]

Wow, anyone read the first few reviews so far? Brutal. Particularly, on Amazon.com. The user reviews are giving in 1-3 stars. Everyone is complaining about a few things that I see so far:

1. There's no more LAN (why the). Not that I used this anyone for the original Starcraft except way back in high school in 2000 or so.

2. There's no chat?!!? Is that true?! I remember the original Battle Net having a chat feature, because you would go into the chatrooms. Or is it there is no chatting during GAME PLAY? If that's the case, how do you talk to your teammates?!

3. Terran are overpowered. I only see this in a few reviews so far. Everyone is also saying Zerg are terribly weak.

4. Of course, the $60 price tag for only 1/3 of the game.

5. You have to sign on the Internet to play SINGLE PLAYER mode. Is that true, too?! That sucks.

1. I haven't LAN-ed in ages either, but I can see the value in wanting to be able to do so, versus requiring everyone to connect to the same router and consuming bandwidth.

2. Chat = Some sort of "make a party" thing where you invite people on your SC2 friend list to. I'm guessing. I have not played on BNet yet (opting to do campaign first).

3. Unable to comment on this at the moment.

4. $60 for 1/3, maybe, but they have really done a lot with it, relative to SC1. It will ultimately be less than $1/hr for the amount of time people will be spending in campaign-mode alone, IMO.

5. True, seems that you have to log into BNet and THEN you can start your campaign mode. My thought is that this is intended to prevent cheating/etc, since you are being assigned achievement points based on campaign mode accomplishments too.

[Celephais]

I'm mad at no LAN either, sure I just connected over battlenet, and I know it's to prevent pirating, but this sucks when you want really good connections.

haven't tried to chat in game yet, but I've seen video of the beta and they were able to chat...

The price tag is pretty fucking steep, and I'd be okay with except for my biggest problem with the game so far. It's the same fucking game. They upres'd it, which I love, and I love starcraft and I'm having a lot of fun with it, but... I just feel like the tech/unit tries aren't really all that different than they were in SC1. Sure they swap out the secondary unit (so you've got a taller walker instead of a dragoon), but it's basically the same.

I really do enjoy it, and I'm sure I'll buy 2 & 3 when they come out, but I was hoping for more.

[Loyrl]

No lan was announced a long time ago, and there are no chat rooms in b.net 2.0 which sucks because I was hoping to meet up with people from d1 d 2 sc1 days. But I guess thats out of the question now. Campaign mode is pretty sweet so far, and there are a lot of units in single player that are not in multiplayer. IE: Medis & firebats so far. (at least in beta)

[Rimalon]

There will be chat rooms soon, in a patch.

There will be LAN (for authorized parties) when the tourney patch comes out, this fall.

You can play single player and challenge missions offline (don't have to be connected).

The amazon reviews were a petition started on fansite teamliquid.net. Those reviews are purely a result of that, before Blizzard announced their intention to fix all the things the community was raging about.

The game is also pretty well balanced right now... terran have a slight edge, if anything. Most of the pros agree. A zerg just won the king of the beta tourney. The balance is considered to be tipped toward P > T > Z > P... which is actually the exact way it was in SC1.

To any of you noobs who want some knowledge dropped on you about how to properly smash face and bop clowns, I suggest Day9.

http://www.youtube.com/user/day9tv

http://day9tv.blip.tv/

Or liquipedia 2: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Main_Page

BEST OF LUCK TO YOU ALL!

[IorakeWarhammer]

once i get the right comp together i intend on whooping ALL of your asses, especially if they make a DoTA map for SC2

[Celephais]

I sense a Baneling rush...

[sst]

once i get the right comp together i intend on whooping ALL of your asses, especially if they make a DoTA map for SC2

What kind of Muslim are you to use profane language? Do you not know that Allah disapproves of it?

[LMingrone]

There's also a key crack out there that makes it so you don't have to be online to get campaign mode working...at least that's what someone told me.

[Keller]

once i get the right comp together i intend on whooping ALL of your asses, especially if they make a DoTA map for SC2

When is the last time a durka-durka won any military battle not against another durka-durka?

Chances are your e-Jihad will fail, too.

[IorakeWarhammer]

e-Jihad?

how about an e-fuck off?

anyway, let's make sure we 1v1 when I get SC2 and see who FAILS TO ACHIEVE VICTORY

If you're actually interested in Islamic war history, The battle of Yarmouk would be a good place to start.

[Keller]

e-Jihad?

how about an e-fuck off?

anyway, let's make sure we 1v1 when I get SC2 and see who FAILS TO ACHIEVE VICTORY

If you're actually interested in Islamic war history, The battle of Yarmouk would be a good place to start.

"war" history?

My friends and I used to throw rocks at each other, too, but I'd hardly call that "war".

[Liberi Fatali]

One of the touted features of the new Battle.Net is RealID, rolled out a while ago with the Battle.Net-enabled World of WarCraft. Basically it's a way for people that actually do know each other (you're known on the opt-in service by your real name) to link up, using an instant messaging system that works across all Battle.Net games (i.e. you can chat to your mates raiding Ulduar in WoW while you fight back the Zerg in StarCraft II).

Unfortunately, thanks to the way the servers are configured for StarCraft II, it's a bit of a flop for us Kiwis that want to jam with our WoW mates. NZ WoW accounts, you see, are on the American servers - while StarCraft II, for fear of crappy pings to America resulting in crappy gameplay experiences, is based in SEA - South East Asia & Oceania. For reasons known only to Blizzard, this means that you can't even chat to your RealID mates, let alone play with them.

After the uproar surrounding the above, Blizzard have stated that "within 60 days" of the game's launch, SEA players will be able to download the US client (many gigabytes - yay for tiny data caps!) and play on there, however the two versions of the game will be entirely segmented (i.e. if you do that, you won't be able to talk to or play with anyone that doesn't). Pretty disappointing and yet another reminder of how peripheral a market of just a few million people really is. Sucks to be us, eh?

One thing Blizzard refuses to move on, uproar or otherwise, is the exclusion of LAN play. Touting the integration of Battle.Net at the lowest level (and likely influenced by the mass piracy of games on PC) all multiplayer games are played over Battle.Net. You even need to connect to Battle.Net to authenticate your copy of the game before you can play it singleplayer - something that itself would have caused online fury a few years ago. But time marches on, and the marketplace for PC gaming is evolving - the internet is required. That's not likely to change anytime soon.

[Rinualdo]

Damn, I'm loving this game so far!

[nub]

One of the touted features of the new Battle.Net is RealID, rolled out a while ago with the Battle.Net-enabled World of WarCraft. Basically it's a way for people that actually do know each other (you're known on the opt-in service by your real name) to link up, using an instant messaging system that works across all Battle.Net games (i.e. you can chat to your mates raiding Ulduar in WoW while you fight back the Zerg in StarCraft II).

Unfortunately, thanks to the way the servers are configured for StarCraft II, it's a bit of a flop for us Kiwis that want to jam with our WoW mates. NZ WoW accounts, you see, are on the American servers - while StarCraft II, for fear of crappy pings to America resulting in crappy gameplay experiences, is based in SEA - South East Asia & Oceania. For reasons known only to Blizzard, this means that you can't even chat to your RealID mates, let alone play with them.

After the uproar surrounding the above, Blizzard have stated that "within 60 days" of the game's launch, SEA players will be able to download the US client (many gigabytes - yay for tiny data caps!) and play on there, however the two versions of the game will be entirely segmented (i.e. if you do that, you won't be able to talk to or play with anyone that doesn't). Pretty disappointing and yet another reminder of how peripheral a market of just a few million people really is. Sucks to be us, eh?

One thing Blizzard refuses to move on, uproar or otherwise, is the exclusion of LAN play. Touting the integration of Battle.Net at the lowest level (and likely influenced by the mass piracy of games on PC) all multiplayer games are played over Battle.Net. You even need to connect to Battle.Net to authenticate your copy of the game before you can play it singleplayer - something that itself would have caused online fury a few years ago. But time marches on, and the marketplace for PC gaming is evolving - the internet is required. That's not likely to change anytime soon.

hmm interesting, and shitty

[Rimalon]

Finished the campaign! SUCH AWESOME STUFF!

[Sean of the Thread]

Jeebus already? That was fast.

[Sean of the Thread]

One of the touted features of the new Battle.Net is RealID, rolled out a while ago with the Battle.Net-enabled World of WarCraft. Basically it's a way for people that actually do know each other (you're known on the opt-in service by your real name) to link up, using an instant messaging system that works across all Battle.Net games (i.e. you can chat to your mates raiding Ulduar in WoW while you fight back the Zerg in StarCraft II).

Unfortunately, thanks to the way the servers are configured for StarCraft II, it's a bit of a flop for us Kiwis that want to jam with our WoW mates. NZ WoW accounts, you see, are on the American servers - while StarCraft II, for fear of crappy pings to America resulting in crappy gameplay experiences, is based in SEA - South East Asia & Oceania. For reasons known only to Blizzard, this means that you can't even chat to your RealID mates, let alone play with them.

After the uproar surrounding the above, Blizzard have stated that "within 60 days" of the game's launch, SEA players will be able to download the US client (many gigabytes - yay for tiny data caps!) and play on there, however the two versions of the game will be entirely segmented (i.e. if you do that, you won't be able to talk to or play with anyone that doesn't). Pretty disappointing and yet another reminder of how peripheral a market of just a few million people really is. Sucks to be us, eh?

One thing Blizzard refuses to move on, uproar or otherwise, is the exclusion of LAN play. Touting the integration of Battle.Net at the lowest level (and likely influenced by the mass piracy of games on PC) all multiplayer games are played over Battle.Net. You even need to connect to Battle.Net to authenticate your copy of the game before you can play it singleplayer - something that itself would have caused online fury a few years ago. But time marches on, and the marketplace for PC gaming is evolving - the internet is required. That's not likely to change anytime soon.


Silent Hunter V did this and it pissed me off.

It's okay because I prefer Silent Hunter III

[nub]

Finished the campaign! SUCH AWESOME STUFF!

A little past getting the ghost.... this campaign is much better and more involved... and fun

(than sc1's campaign, which I don't even think I did haha)

[Kuyuk]

I just beat the campaign. I loved it, however I am very disppointed in it as well.

SC1 - you had three campaigns, one for each race, this just has Terran. No game play as Zerg, and like four missions as Protoss... :(

I'M HUMAN IRL, I WANT TO BE AN ALIEN IN SC2!

[nub]

I just beat the campaign. I loved it, however I am very disppointed in it as well.

SC1 - you had three campaigns, one for each race, this just has Terran. No game play as Zerg, and like four missions as Protoss... :(

I'M HUMAN IRL, I WANT TO BE AN ALIEN IN SC2!

After playing campaign a while you can only imagine how badass it will be when the other two come out.

[Kuyuk]

After playing campaign a while you can only imagine how badass it will be when the other two come out.

Played Zerg vs AI once, it sucked. Without the tips, and practice that the campaign gives, it's just confusing for the first while.

Terran does kick ass in SC2.

[nub]

Played Zerg vs AI once, it sucked. Without the tips, and practice that the campaign gives, it's just confusing for the first while.

Terran does kick ass in SC2.

Yeah I'll try AI later, need a new vid card on my comp, bought two SC2's, one for me and one for my brother. Only get to play it when my brother is not on his comp, which is never since he WoW's it up.

[Numbers]

I've been kind of underwhelmed with the game. It's literally exactly the same as the first game -- just updated graphics and new units. There's literally nothing new at all about the gameplay.

[Kuyuk]

I think that's a good thing based on the success of the first game.

[Numbers]

True, but it also seems like something a dedicated modder could do.

[calidus]

Silent Hunter V did this and it pissed me off.

It's okay because I prefer Silent Hunter III

I wouldn't know if SH5 is any good, cause as soon as I read about their online DRM shit I removed it from my to-buy list. Fuck that shit.

[Danical]

I've been kind of underwhelmed with the game. It's literally exactly the same as the first game -- just updated graphics and new units. There's literally nothing new at all about the gameplay.

This is so ridiculously false, I just shit my pants.

[Parkbandit]

I never played SCI.. but I'm gaming with someone who did and he's retarded good.

[Parkbandit]

OK.. anyone else seeing this problem?

I start up a new game.. and it's happened in campaign mode as well as 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3... and I can't see like half the units or mines or gas nodes? I've updated all my video drivers and it still fucking does it. And it's random.. sometimes I see everything normally, and then the next game BOOM, half the stuff.

[Kuyuk]

They told you you'd go blind if you kept it up...

What are people's handles so we can play against each other?!

Kuyuk is my char name on there..

[nub]

I never played SCI.. but I'm gaming with someone who did and he's retarded good.

I didn't realize we were gaming together...

[Danical]

Let Rimalon or I know when you're in the 2v2 diamond league.

[nub]

Let Rimalon or I know when you're in the 2v2 diamond league.

Who me? It might be a while... just doing campaign on the weekends when my brother isn't on WoW... though my new video card should be coming in the next day or two. I say give me about a month.

I have some people that want to partner up that keep asking, canadians.

[Danical]

Anyone. Don't really care who. Good games with anyone are fun to be had.

[nub]

Yeah, when I play with partners vs randoms, even if the randoms are good, it doesn't get your blood going like it does when you play vs people that you've interacted with, or know for sure are a team, etc.

[Kuyuk]

I suck, but if you're willing to tone your game down to a snail speed, I'm good to have fun against.

[Kuyuk]

So, anyone up for games vs AI? Lemme know!

[nub]

So, anyone up for games vs AI? Lemme know!

What's up Kuyuk, I might tonight, my brother said we'll do some SC2 tonight, I got a video card, but I need a new power supply as I am missing one connection for the new card FUCK. SC2 is going to cost me about $300.

I was good at SC1, but I sucked at SC2 so far... if you don't mind losing then <shrug!>

[Kuyuk]

I'm down with losing. Dont matter to me.

[nub]

alright your profile is on private, was going to send you a PM, anyway my AIM is nubulator9

[Kuyuk]

For others - if you invite a friend, my SC name is Kuyuk and my character code is 398

[Kuyuk]

Nub and I have played a few games and kicked some ass, and had some fun! More the merrier, I know a bunch of you are out there...

[Rinualdo]

What is everyone using? I find the Protoss best suited to my style of play, though I still suck against anything other then medium.

[Kuyuk]

I suck at Zerg. Badly. Very badly. I do fine agianst medium - got annihalted against very hard though.

[Deathravin]

http://www.youtube.com/user/HuskyStarcraft

I don't even own the game yet, going to try a trial for a bit (downloading now). Been watching Husky's game commentary for a few days now. Very cool, I must say.

[Parkbandit]

I suck at Zerg. Badly. Very badly. I do fine agianst medium - got annihalted against very hard though.

Same. Hate the Zerg! I really suck playing them.

I find protoss is best for offensive and terran is better suited for defense.

If anyone needs a trial version, I got a free coupon today when I helped upgrade a friend's video card. Send me a PM and I'll give you the code.

[IorakeWarhammer]

omg i used to be obsessed with the zerg

[Drisco]

We need to get a list going of Character codes. We should get a group going and do some 4v4 or 3v3 with some vent. I feel like we could have some great times.

Protoss ftw bitches.

[IorakeWarhammer]

once i memorize the last 30th of qur'an, i'm going to buy the game. so, we'll see how long that takes. intended to do this in June, Shattered being released didn't help. big mistake there. so, we might be gaming in a month or two in sha Allah. looking forward to wiping the floor with you guys.

[Parkbandit]

once i memorize the last 30th of qur'an, i'm going to buy the game. so, we'll see how long that takes. intended to do this in June, Shattered being released didn't help. big mistake there. so, we might be gaming in a month or two in sha Allah. looking forward to wiping the floor with you guys.

Good luck.. I didn't see any race that had bomb jacket research or roadside IEDs.

[Deathravin]

Banelings

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm really dumb as you all know and cannot find a trial version after a 5 second search.

[Drinin]

I'm not that great (although I am rocking a modest 4 game winning streak in Bronze!!!), but I'm always up for games if I'm logged in. Censure is my handle on bnet, feel free to add me.

[nub]

I might be playing in about 30min or so (6:15pm eastern) I THINK

[Parkbandit]

I'm really dumb as you all know and cannot find a trial version after a 5 second search.

Check your PMs. Just sent you a code.

[Kuyuk]

We've had some good games with Pc'ers... anyone else infor the fun?

[Kitsun]

Durg and I got into Silver league for 2v2. Woot!

[Deathravin]

Saw a funny ass reply on HDStarcraft's channel yesterday.

Part1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9niTmeOU
Part2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aLBqeKd_lk
Part3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww_w7sh6NWY
Part4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOY2ve7zHb4

Good stuff.

[Rinualdo]

I finally got around to working on the campaign over the weekend. For anyone on the fence about SC2, I highly recommend it. Even if you're not interested in pvp, it has quite a rich storyline.

[Kitsun]

I actually managed to move from Bronze to Silver league for 1v1. It came right after I figured out how to combat the goddamn ling rush.

[nub]

Saw a funny ass reply on HDStarcraft's channel yesterday.

Part1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9niTmeOU
Part2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aLBqeKd_lk
Part3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww_w7sh6NWY
Part4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOY2ve7zHb4

Good stuff.

Nice, I've been meaning to watch replays to see what good people do. Since I only have limited time to play for now.

[Durgrimst]

I actually managed to move from Bronze to Silver league for 1v1. It came right after I figured out how to combat the goddamn ling rush.

Maybe we will do better in our matches now!!!

[IorakeWarhammer]

best protoss strat so far is to do a 2x gateway and rush with like 7-8 zealots, then while the person recovers if they aint dead make void ships and pwn them. stalkers work good too with zeals

[Danical]

best protoss strat so far is to do a 2x gateway and rush with like 7-8 zealots, then while the person recovers if they aint dead make void ships and pwn them. stalkers work good too with zeals

PvT, if you don't go 1gate/core and chrono your stalker, you'll die to reapers.

[Deathravin]

I prefer the destiny cloud fist build with Terran... hehe

[nub]

best protoss strat so far is to do a 2x gateway and rush with like 7-8 zealots, then while the person recovers if they aint dead make void ships and pwn them. stalkers work good too with zeals

Sounds good, will try it.

[Rinualdo]

Sounds good, will try it.

Unless the person is doing roaches.

Your strategy should depend on what race and strategy your opponent is utilizing.

[Kuyuk]

If I'm playing Terran, I try and do Marauders and rush with about 6-8 of them.

[IorakeWarhammer]

well if its 3v3 that strat is workin ok. im sure the uber pros will own me but hell im almost to platinum division with the strat. i do a quick expo and it always works.

[IorakeWarhammer]

you get 7-8 zeals and help your allies and then as you rush make a cyber core/forge and get gas and 1-2 cannons. i usually have a nexus building somewhere randomly in a corner of the map too.

i make 2-3 cannons at the expo and then start pumping gas. usually if i can i send 1/2 my probes to the expo.

if you have a working expo you can pretty much pump 3 stargates worth of void ships. when you do this, also make a twilight council and pump zealots as you will have extra minerals if you have made enough probes.

its good to rush with 3-4 void ships just to harass. stalkers will own them as will hydras. but i like to play around with harassing them and taking out some of their SCVs while i get 8-10 more void ships and tons of zeals. make sure to upgrade photon shields, and definitely the 1x armor and weapons of the void ships. if you get time do armor on the zeals too.

the thing with the void ship build is its like sex. sometimes its better to go in full force from the front or sometimes you wanna sneak around back. if they have good defense of their workers then you should just slam them in front once you have 8-10 void ships and about 20 zeals. it's just so overwhelming it owns. make sure to make a robotics bay so you can have 1-2 obs just in case.

anyway im a total noob at SC right now but this has had me winning quite a few games.

[Parkbandit]

If I'm playing Terran, I try and do Marauders and rush with about 6-8 of them.

Try firebats... it's easier.

[Celephais]

Try firebats... it's easier.

Try multiplayer.

[StrayRogue]

Try multiplayer.

Pwned.

[Danical]

Rimalon and I started playing a few 2v2 games again so we could break back into diamond since the release. Everyone cheeses and does proxy pylon / 2 gate or mass reapers; it's really lame that no one plays straight up but that's just the nature of the beast I suppose. The problem is that it's really hard for 1 player to stave off an onslaught from 2 opponents even if you send aid immediately. Too much damage is done and it's too hard to come back at that point.

[Kuyuk]

Yep. Need a good shared base 2v2 map

[Cyprion]

I was of a similar mindset. I enjoyed getting thors, void rays or broodlords, but most games you would lose early to a rush or a single void ray.

Since we changed, gone 15-2 just rushing him with a bunch of zerglings and my 10-16 marines. Games last 5-7 mins. Even random 4v4 people always seem to want to rush.

Nature of the beast as you say. Sucks, but after starting 6-10, you need to change your mindset to beat them.

[StrayRogue]

Reapers are really, really weak. They do a lot of damage, but any kind of sustained fire will kill them quick. Proxy pylon...again it gives you an indication of their tactics, IE, they're going to rush you. This allows you to plan for that. MMM pwns a zealot/stalker rush.

[Fallen]

Rimalon and I started playing a few 2v2 games again so we could break back into diamond since the release. Everyone cheeses and does proxy pylon / 2 gate or mass reapers; it's really lame that no one plays straight up but that's just the nature of the beast I suppose. The problem is that it's really hard for 1 player to stave off an onslaught from 2 opponents even if you send aid immediately. Too much damage is done and it's too hard to come back at that point.

@ Dan and Rim and everyone else, do you see any balancing patches being released in the future to stop any strategies?

[StrayRogue]

I personally think the game is well balanced at the moment. Vikings are very strong with no real weakness at the moment. Carriers aren't very good any more, but apart from this, I can't see a massive area of the game which is obviously broken.

[Cyprion]

I see the weakness of the viking is that it needs to land to attack ground targets. void rays and the flying zerg don't. Usually doesn't matter because marines, stalkers and hyralisks can all shoot air targets. Really only a weakness if going against zealots i guess.

[Danical]

Reapers are really, really weak. They do a lot of damage, but any kind of sustained fire will kill them quick. Proxy pylon...again it gives you an indication of their tactics, IE, they're going to rush you. This allows you to plan for that. MMM pwns a zealot/stalker rush.

I encourage you to watch the IEM finals. 5 rax reapers (all games played) lead Morrow to beat the best current Zerg in the world.

RE: Proxy pylon vs. Terran. They're going to have 2-3 zealots before you have much of anything (2 marines or 1 marauder still building or 1 reaper still building). They'll kill the blocking depot and you're supply blocked now with 2 more zealots incoming and whatever troops you have dead. If they're rushing you, they aren't going to have stalkers, they're just going to rape your face with zealots and you won't have much of an opportunity to do anything even if you wall off (as terran).

[StrayRogue]

Yes, but vikings pwn everything air. Everything.

[StrayRogue]

Sorry, you can get an army just as fast as zealot at the beginning game, if not faster. As a zealot player I am typically outnumbered in a rush. It's all about killing critical units/buildings. If you're getting wiped out in the initial attack...you're doing something wrong.

[Danical]

I see the weakness of the viking is that it needs to land to attack ground targets. void rays and the flying zerg don't. Usually doesn't matter because marines, stalkers and hyralisks can all shoot air targets. Really only a weakness if going against zealots i guess.

TvT: Vikings are used for their spotting/sight range so you can utilize the Range 13 of tanks. Without one, tanks will have a range of 13 but sight of 11; dominating the skies and having that extra 2 range is crucial for tank pushes.

[Danical]

Yes, but vikings pwn everything air. Everything.

multi voidray will devastate multi viking so hard, it's laughable.

[StrayRogue]

No chance, unless the viking player sucks. Vikings have a massive range advantage against void rays. You can literally kite them to death without taking any casualties.

[Danical]

Sorry, you can get an army just as fast as zealot at the beginning game, if not faster. As a zealot player I am typically outnumbered in a rush. It's all about killing critical units/buildings. If you're getting wiped out in the initial attack...you're doing something wrong.

Are we assuming PvT? If so . . .

You're assuming you will even spot the proxy pylon / 2 gate before you put your depot on 9. If not, you'll have 2 zealots in your base before you have 2 marines out or before 1 reaper or marauder is out.

[StrayRogue]

You must have some crazy ass build order if a barracks isn't your 2nd or 3rd building.

To proxy rush you need to have built a pylon, built a gateway, built a cybernetics core, researched wargate. If you have no troops by that point...sorry you deserve to lose.

[Danical]

No chance, unless the viking player sucks. Vikings have a massive range advantage against void rays. You can literally kite them to death without taking any casualties.

First, you simply cannot kite void rays. Void rays with upgrade will have a speed of 3.375. Vikings have a speed of 2.75. That's nearly a 20% speed difference.

Secondly, when a void ray is charged up (which will absolutely happen given their speed compared to vikings), without any upgrades, will have 41.67 DPS vs armored (vikings). Vikings have a DPS of 14 vs armored.

It's just simply not even mathematically possible what you're saying.

[Danical]

You must have some crazy ass build order if a barracks isn't your 2nd or 3rd building.

To proxy rush you need to have built a pylon, built a gateway, built a cybernetics core, researched wargate. If you have no troops by that point...sorry you deserve to lose.

Depot 9, Rax 10. It's the most standard build order in the game for terran. I'm not sure where you would even think it wasn't or how you could infer I wasn't using that BO.

Why, in the hell, would you need warp gates? Pylon near opponent base outside standard scouting path + 2 gates at the pylon . . . look at the build times. If you don't scout the pylon, you're going to be in for a hard time.

[StrayRogue]

You very simply out maneuver them. They lose their charge if moved more than 45 degrees. Plus you do not singly engage them with vikings. You have ground as well. Vikings are behind the ground. As a toss player every air move I do is countered (by terran) by vikings.

The speed upgrade it pretty superfluous. It's expensive, it's in a pretty unnecessary building. It will not be researched early game.

[StrayRogue]

Depot 9, Rax 10. It's the most standard build order in the game for terran. I'm not sure where you would even think it wasn't or how you could infer I wasn't using that BO.

Why, in the hell, would you need warp gates? Pylon near opponent base outside standard scouting path + 2 gates at the pylon . . . look at the build times. If you don't scout the pylon, you're going to be in for a hard time.

Why do you need warpgates? Why do you even need the pylon if you don't have warpgates??

[Danical]

You very simply out maneuver them. They lose their charge if moved more than 45 degrees. Plus you do not singly engage them with vikings. You have ground as well. Vikings are behind the ground. As a toss player every air move I do is countered (by terran) by vikings.

The speed upgrade it pretty superfluous. It's expensive, it's in a pretty unnecessary building. It will not be researched early game.

If you're going add a ton of qualifiers, then fine, but the original argument was that you said vikings will pwn everything in the air, which is simply not true.

If you commit to mass void ray, you will absolutely get the upgrade if you scout enemy air.

Also, the only reason a void ray would lose its charge is after the 5 second window of non-engagement; arc has nothing to do with it.

[Danical]

Why do you need warpgates? Why do you even need the pylon if you don't have warpgates??

Are you being serious right now?

[StrayRogue]

The only reason beyond scouting purposes for a proxy pylon is to warp units to it from your base, which requires the above teching.

And if you're being mass aired by void rays, again you suck at not scouting them. Scouting is a huge part of the game.

Dude if you're being rushed by a lone one or two zealots and losing, it's not that protoss are OP or Terran UP. It's because you suck.

[Danical]

Just a few notes on proxy pylon / gateways.

If you spot no structures in their base, definitely forgo whatever plans you had and throw down a second rax instead of getting the baller OC.

[Danical]

The only reason beyond scouting purposes for a proxy pylon is to warp units to it from your base, which requires the above teching.

I'll try to spell this out very clearly. And if you reread what I've said you'll see it there.

1) pylon close to opponents base.
2) 2 gateways next to pylon.
3) continually build zealots until opponent ggs.

There is no core. There is no warp gate tech. There is only 2 gate + pylon next to the opponent base. Why do you keep insisting on core or warp tech? YOU DO NOT NEED CORE OR WARPGATE TECH. Understand?



And if you're being mass aired by void rays, again you suck at not scouting them. Scouting is a huge part of the game.

Would you please, for the love of god, stop qualifying your statements.


Yes, but vikings pwn everything air. Everything.

You are flat out wrong. End of argument. If you want to say something about unit composition then fine. That's a different argument. I only addressed your statement that vikings will pwn everything.



Dude if you're being rushed by a lone one or two zealots and losing, it's not that protoss are OP or Terran UP. It's because you suck

Please review what I've said about proxy pylon + gates.

[StrayRogue]

Seriously, even if they warp in two gates, near you (a fucking inefficient and dangerous tactic), you still suck if you A) don't notice B) can't defend. The time it takes to build those gateways you SHOULD have at least four marines, hell more.

As for the void ray comments, I'll quote from the most popular non-Korean SC2 wiki:

Void Rays have limited usefulness if anticipated by the enemy. Against Protoss, Stalkers (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stalker) can deal with Void Rays easily, especially if the Void Rays remain uncharged. Against Terran, sufficient numbers of Marines (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marines) (especially with Stimpack (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stimpack)), or properly controlled Vikings (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Viking), can deal with Void Rays.

In both situations, if you're blindly building away at your base, not scouting, you deserve to lose. Going "OH FUCK" when 20 rays come at you is no excuse.

[AnticorRifling]

The best games on SC1 or AoE were when everyone agreed no contact with the enemy for 20min. Build that shit up and bring the rumble!

[Cyprion]

When I play protoss, I usually just build 8-9 warp gates and build a massive upgraded stalker army. Void rays are sweet and all, but i like instant troops.

[Danical]

Seriously, even if they warp in two gates, near you (a fucking inefficient and dangerous tactic), you still suck if you A) don't notice B) can't defend. The time it takes to build those gateways you SHOULD have at least four marines, hell more.

The above statement is based purely on the condition that you can spot the proxy (either scouting their base or spot the proxy on the way to their base) before you 9 depot. If you don't, you'll die and here's why:

You will absolutely not have 4 marines by the time the first and second zealot comes. As they cut econ for an all in strategy, they'll have their pylon (25 seconds) built and 10-20% (based on map line length) of their gateways (65 seconds) built before you finish your depot (30 seconds) and start your barracks (60 seconds). If you build a reactor on your barracks then add another 25 seconds. Marines take 25 seconds. Zealots take 16.5 seconds as you'll have more than 50 energy saved up to chrono. They'll have the gateways down before before you have rax down and the zealots out before you have a single marine. You're best bet at that point is to hope you can wall off before they're in your base and pull scvs to repair the damaged structures, further preventing penetration.



As for the void ray comments, I'll quote from the most popular non-Korean SC2 wiki:

Void Rays have limited usefulness if anticipated by the enemy. Against Protoss, Stalkers (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stalker) can deal with Void Rays easily, especially if the Void Rays remain uncharged. Against Terran, sufficient numbers of Marines (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marines) (especially with Stimpack (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stimpack)), or properly controlled Vikings (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Viking), can deal with Void Rays.

In both situations, if you're blindly building away at your base, not scouting, you deserve to lose. Going "OH FUCK" when 20 rays come at you is no excuse.

Yeah, I read TL daily and their Liquidpedia site all the time. Guess what the next sentence reads.



Although a Void Ray can defeat two Vikings despite their own bonus against armored units, they can kite the Void Ray with their superior range until the Protoss has upgraded Flux Vanes.

We're done here.

[Cephalopod]

When are Danical and Rimalon moving to Korea?

[Rimalon]

lawl, go get 'em, Dan.

@E: I definitely think a big balance patch is coming down the pipes. I'm pretty disgusted at the state of 1v1, so much that I refuse to play it at the moment.

Reapers are the main culprit; their timings and power when microed by skilled multitasking players are just too much.

They completely unbalance TvZ and force every TvP to open the same way.

Terran are glaringly unbalanced in general, due to the way their buildings/tech structures work, I feel. There are a lot of inequalities in how the races get to their higher tech. Terrans can build tech labs/reactors on their lowest tech structure (barracks) and use them to accelerate tech on their higher tech structures. The result is that terrans have access to ALL of their units extremely fast, and in mass fashion if they wish, while the other races must choose a path, and often get boned when the terran just quickly switches their buildings up and starts countering said path.

The very nature of that, while cool, seems to be unbalancing the fuck out of game.

IMO.

[Danical]

When are Danical and Rimalon moving to Korea?

To be fair, I suck horrendous gangrenous donkey balls compared to, at least, 33-50% of all diamond players. I've got the knowledge but I simply do not, nor will I ever, have the muscle memory / hand skills necessary to be at the highest level.

[AnticorRifling]

To be fair, I suck horrendous gangrenous donkey balls compared to, at least, 33-50% of all diamond players. I've got the knowledge but I simply do not, nor will I ever, have the muscle memory / hand skills necessary to be at the highest level.

So you're repeating what happened in the HJ competition down at Ho Down 08. And to think you were one "John" away from capturing the silver cut-a-bitch trophey.

[Danical]

So you're repeating what happened in the HJ competition down at Ho Down 08. And to think you were one "John" away from capturing the silver cut-a-bitch trophey.

A boy's gotta dream, ya know.

I'LL GET 'EM NEXT YEAR!

[Danical]

Patch notes for 1.1 in the context of the Proxy Pylon / Gateway rush argument I had with StrayRogue.

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/554901



Protoss

We have two key changes in mind for the zealot: the build time is being increased from 33 to 38 seconds, and the warpgate cooldown is being increased from 23 to 28 seconds. Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels, particularly those that rely on rapidly assaulting an enemy base from nearby "proxy" gateways. We feel the window players have to scout for and fend off this rush is too small. We also want to address the problem of protoss being able to dump minerals a bit too quickly with the combination of warpgates and Chrono Boost.

[Kuyuk]

shit, just when I was getting good at it.

[Danical]

Rim and I are back in diamond.

I still see a glaring problem in that Terrans are far superior in group games because they can wall off and still get troops in and out. That's so huge in the early game. Although, people still cheese hard in group games.

[Kitsun]

I'm in upper silver now but can't seem to break through to gold =/

[IorakeWarhammer]

really not hard to crack a terran open

[Danical]

really not hard to crack a terran open

I lol'd.