Sorcerer training

[The SpellWeaver]

He's a level 5 dark elf.
Skills:
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Physical Fitness...................| 25 5
Arcane Symbols.....................| 25 5
Magic Item Use.....................| 25 5
Spell Aiming.......................| 50 10
Harness Power......................| 70 15
Elemental Mana Control.............| 25 5
Spirit Mana Control................| 25 5
Perception.........................| 25 5

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 3

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 3

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 7
Stats:
Strength (STR): 60 (5) ... 60 (5)
Constitution (CON): 66 (3) ... 66 (3)
Dexterity (DEX): 96 (33) ... 96 (33)
Agility (AGI): 52 (6) ... 52 (6)
Discipline (DIS): 81 (5) ... 81 (5)
Aura (AUR): 82 (26) ... 82 (26)
Logic (LOG): 81 (15) ... 81 (15)
Intuition (INT): 52 (6) ... 52 (6)
Wisdom (WIS): 81 (20) ... 81 (20)
Influence (INF): 25 (-17) ... 25 (-17)

Anyone who can break down the skills for him?

[Rolton-Sammich]

Tripling Harness Power is wtfdiculous.

What are you asking for?

[The SpellWeaver]

so i bring harness power back down to 2x and aiming 3x?

[ruineye]

Tripling Harness Power is wtfdiculous.

What are you asking for?

Eh, if I were lvl 5 and somehow lacking a 30-day fix skills (i.e., swinging not an option), I think tripling HP until lvl 10 or so makes sense...

[The SpellWeaver]

hate swinging lol

[caelric]

so i bring harness power back down to 2x and aiming 3x?

Considering you can only 2x spell aiming....

Still, bring HP to 2x, spend the points on some lores. Summoning lore is good if you are going to continue bolting as a sorc, it allows you to unlock 118 as a 9 mana web belt once you have 20 ranks in summoning lore. Summoning lore also helps your 111 do more damage, and splash more.

Sorc lores...hmm, I wouldn't worry about those lores until higher level.

Oh, all your 1x skills should be at 7 ranks. You can train in your level +2 in 1 x skills. Your 2x skills should be at (level+2) x 2 or 14 ranks at level 5.

[ruineye]

Still, bring HP to 2x, spend the points on some lores. Summoning lore is good if you are going to continue bolting as a sorc, it allows you to unlock 118 as a 9 mana web belt once you have 20 ranks in summoning lore. Summoning lore also helps your 111 do more damage, and splash more.

Sorc lores...hmm, I wouldn't worry about those lores until higher level.


I wouldn't worry about *any* lores for a long while yet... you can always go back and grab a full 20 ranks of summoning when you're lvl 30 and have more mana. Until then you're going to be plinking anyway.

But I agree that 3x HP is overkill. If mana is really a problem, go here and grab 1 dark green anklet and 2 mahogany anklecuffs:

http://www.virilneus.com/shops/index.php?name=Leopaldu%27s+Outfitting

And if you want to be an obnoxiously optimized caster (like the ones who broke GS3), shoot for something like:

Lvl 10: 103, 406, 727
Lvl 14: 107, 414, 727
Lvl 20: 120, 414, 731
Lvl 25: 120, 426, 734

[Deathravin]

Well first 30 days for me are thus:

Full Str + Dex + Agi, grab a claid, go THW, Armor, as much mana as you can, get 414, 103, and 712 asap.
Do that til ~15-20.

Then around 15-20 flip to 3x spells, as much mana as you can, 1x spirit & elemental control.
Get 21 ranks above level of 700's, keep 400s at level, and get 120 when you can. Just do 702s. Around 25 you can start 706ing stunnable mobs, and then 702/705ing. At around 35 you'll be a typical little sorcerer.

Sometime between 20 and 36 you're not on 30 days anymore, and this is how I do my guys...

I went Halfling, and I REALLY liked it. She was agile, small, I liked the idea of being an evil halfling too... but I felt sort of forced into being light, and I really didn't like that though. I had a script that would keep a locked satchel phased while I hunted and that helped a lot. Also I phase all my boxes, and that helps a lot.

But I flipped to dwarf. A bit fewer worries about weight, a little less CS, but you still get the full Spirit regain which is important to me.


Level 0 Stats for Dwarf Sorcerer

Strength (STR): 44
Constitution (CON): 20
Dexterity (DEX): 59
Agility (AGI): 70
Discipline (DIS): 58
Aura (AUR): 88
Logic (LOG): 89
Intuition (INT): 73
Wisdom (WIS): 89
Influence (INF): 70
As a dwarf, I was worried about CS, so I made sure my Aura & Wisdom were 100 around the level my 30 days was up. when I do hit level 100, I'll just get myself a fixstat potion and adjust everything for post-100 fun. I suggest going max TP, but without neglecting the physical stats. The more the ratio of Mental to Physical TP you have, the more stuff you'll be able to train in.


Anybody (at level xx), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name |
Physical Fitness...................| <Whatever gets you to your full health at level 100, get it asap and grow into it>
Spell Aiming.......................| =Level +2 (1x) - eventually get to 2x
Harness Power......................| =Level
Elemental Mana Control.............| =Level +2 (1x)
Spirit Mana Control................| =Level +2 (1x)
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| =25
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| =Level +2 (1x)
Perception.........................| =25
Climbing...........................| =Level +2 /2 (0.5x) til 30 ranks
Swimming...........................| =Level +2 /2 (0.5x) til 60 ranks

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| =(Level +2) *2/3 (0.66x)

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| =(Level +2) *2/3 (0.66x)

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| =Level +21



And at level 5, rerolling for a 30 day is always an option. Level 5 takes like 5.5 hours to get.


Quick breakdown:
PF - you need health, might as well get as much as you can. Just go to level 100, keep adding PF ranks til you stop going up by 4, do 1x til you get that number, never think about it again. You may not have as much as you will at 100, but your Con bonus will increase and you'll grow into it.

Spell Aiming - 111 is good. 720 is great. There is no better spell for 'oh shit' moments. Also, it's great (if not very cheap) for PvP. @2x, anybody a couple levels lower than you and under is pretty much a stain in TSC after 1 cast. it's good for fast hunts if you don't care about loot too. Start with 1x and gradually get 2x.

HP - Mana, no need to over do it. Just get what you need. With wracking, you have plenty - get 11 spirit asap.

Mana controls - Well they help keep the cost of 720&719 down, also they increase the mana you regain per pulse.

Demonology - 25 ranks = no chance of death from casting a demon in a workshop, with Lich you don't have to worry about keeping them up ; Lore is subjective.

Necromancy - 1x = good 711 RT's, gives nice bonuses to Disease & 701, and lets you animate mobs. I keep holding out that they're going to make this spell better... but Lore is subjective LOL. 711 is great for things that don't stun (like grizzled mobs). It gives RT and does 35% damage on good rolls. Can't beat that with a stick.

Perception - No real rhyme or reason to the Perception at 25... just like it there.

Climbing & Swimming - I have no clue why they have to be where they are, I'm sure somebody has the exact correct values, but that's just what I do.

Spells - I get 130 and 430 asap, then back off til they = 2/3x again. Lets me catch up with other skills I neglect til 30's. +21 sorc spells gives full CS potential, you can go higher but at +21 your CS should be good.

Archane Symbols and MIU. I tend to do 2x AS 1x MIU for scroll infusion, but not until later on. That's something to do in the 70s IMO.

[zhelas]

Great info posted above!

I might get Demonology up to 52 Ranks. You need 50 ranks to get the full benefits of Cloak of Shadows' retribution. The additional 2 ranks will get you the next level of phasing when you phase boxes to keep you light.

The 60 ranks of swim will help you get in and out of Nelemar. Personally you won't need more that 30 ranks of swimming until you are going to hunt there.

30 Ranks of swimming will help you swim into the Rift Area
30 Ranks will help you climb up to Pinfar.

Much later you want to get you climbing up higher so you can climb out of Plane 5 when you hunt the rift. But no rush.

[Fatsix]

Then summoning lore or necromancy lore? Thats my dilema

[zhelas]

Then summoning lore or necromancy lore? Thats my dilema

Until the Sorcerer Lore review which will happen in the year 2266. Lores really are fluff. But they can add flavor to the profession.

If I were to start Zhelas over again as a Sorcerer. I would be 1x in Sorcerer lores. I would 1x in Demon Summoning lore until I got 52 ranks then switch over to 1x in Necromancy lores.

It is true that being fully 1x in Necro lore you get the benefits of Pain and the more ranks you have longer animates will last. More than likely though you won't be casting Pain until you hunt the Bowels (creatures are level 84 to 89?) and unless you are going to force your character to be a necromancer, you will probably get annoyed with all the components and that you need about 70 to 75 ranks of Necro lore to animate a creature equal to your level.

1x Harness power (You get 3 mana per train... if you 2x in Harness power.. you only get 1 more mana point... expensive)
1x Magic Item Use
1x Arcane Symbols
2.3x to 2.5x in Spells
2x Spell Aiming
1x Emental Mana Control
1x Spiritual Mana Control
1x Sorcerer lores (start with Demonology.. get 52 ranks...then switch to Necromancy)
.5x Summon Lores

.5x Spiritual summoning lores are nice but you don't have to get them if you don't want them. The bonus of getting spiritual summoning lores is at 20 ranks you can Web Bolt with 118. Every 10 ranks reducing your call lightning time by 1 second capping at 70 ranks. Eventually being able to cast call lightning inside. Being able to locate folks anywhere in the lands. The more ranks you have the greater chance the creatures have of being ensnared in your webs.

CRB aka Virilneus swears by it.......fun but if that isn't your hunting style, no need to get them unless you want variety. You could dump those points you are spending in spiritual summoning lores into necro lores, if you want to be a necromancer.

[caelric]

Vase chance of 40% to web something with web bolt at 20 ranks of summoning lore, +1% for every 2 ranks after that. So summoning lore really helps your web bolt. Also helps the DF of Fire Spirit (111) and the splashing on that. Plus you get some interesting things with 116 (counter locates, far realm locates, etc...)

If you 2x spell aiming, and use bolting on a regular basis, summoning lore is the way to go for a sorc. If you don't bolt that often, and are mainly a CS sorc, then there is little/no reason for summoning lore.

[Fatsix]

Has anyone hunted with 111 effectively? Clips?

[zhelas]

Has anyone hunted with 111 effectively? Clips?

CRB/Virilneus might have some of his hunts posted here at PC. Basically you can cast an area web which the creatures fall in and get entangled. You cast 111 at the creature if there is splash damage it will hit the other creatures and it can set the area web you cast prior on fire burning the creatures trapped.

Virilneus swears by it and if I were hunting in OTF where the swarms are crazy, sure that would be an effective hunting strategy.

It is as you can guess very mana intensive. But Virilneus is old as dirt! With a lot of post cap experience. :)

One thing to keep in mind though. Sorcerers will never have as high of a casting bolt AS as a wizard. This profession doesn't get the spells to aid in boosting Bolting AS. Sorcerers are still based on the old philosophy of high CS=Win. Still 111 in combination with 118 can be an effective strategy.

For a low trained sorcerer though, unless you are going to use wands, you will run out of mana quickly.

[caelric]

I've successfully hunted mostly with bolts. Mostly this was during the mid to late 40's, and I hunted in the Fethayl Bog. Bog wights, Bog Spectre, Warrior Shades.

Couple of keys to doing so:

Either get a scroll with 513, or get some 513 imbeds from a wizard. This is +20 bolt AS.

Tactics are first hit the target with web bolt (118) for 9 mana, and repeat until you successfully web it. Then, hit it with either CS spells while it is webbed and im-mobile, or use some wizard wands that are non fire based. I had an cleric alchemist make me lots of spiraled sapphire wands, which are 305, holy bolt. Worked great on immobile undead. Then, right before the web is about to wear off, hit the target with 111. You have to time this right, and hit it before the web wears off, b/c if you do so, you get double fire flares. First from the fire, and then from the web burning off. It takes a bit to learn the timing, but it is effective once you do so.

As was mentioned, this is mana intensive to use 111 multiple times. A solution for this is to get some friendly ranger to make some ranger rods. A basic ranger rod can hold 80 mana. Imbed 7 casts of 11 in the rod, and you have a relatively low cost, high usage imbed. If the ranger is particularly skilled, the rod might be able to hold 88 or more mana, which would be 8 casts of 111.

Again, though, remember that sorcs have the worst bolt AS of all the pures, so some ways to make up for it are the 513 imbeds/scrolls, pure potions or scrolls with 211, or even better 215, etc... Anything that you can use to boost your bolt AS is great.

[ruineye]

Until the Sorcerer Lore review which will happen in the year 2266. Lores really are fluff..


Agreed. From a purely mechanistic standpoint (RP aside), I wouldn't waste a single training point on Sorcerer Lores until post-cap.

[Fatsix]

That's too much work just to use an inferior bolt. I dont train in spell aim, so i need the lore for rune staff ds. Plus the retribution effect is nice for shattered. Already got someone with it.

Now i just have to figure out what do do with rogues before that point. Because they have that cman to allow them to remain stand or stand quickly. So simply 709 or 410 them out of hiding doesnt work. Specially when they can stalk you to avoid open spells.

[zhelas]

That's too much work just to use an inferior bolt. I dont train in spell aim, so i need the lore for rune staff ds. Plus the retribution effect is nice for shattered. Already got someone with it.

Now i just have to figure out what do do with rogues before that point. Because they have that cman to allow them to remain stand or stand quickly. So simply 709 or 410 them out of hiding doesnt work. Specially when they can stalk you to avoid open spells.

Spell aiming is important even if you don't cast bolts. You will have better success with focus implosion, focus maelstrom and aimed limb disruption.

When I hunted my sorcerer I would type aim right arm then go hunting. When I cast 708 at anything, the spell would automatically target the right arm. Without spell aiming you will get CS penalties.

Dismembering rogues with 708 can interesting :)

[ruineye]

Now i just have to figure out what do do with rogues before that point. Because they have that cman to allow them to remain stand or stand quickly. So simply 709 or 410 them out of hiding doesnt work. Specially when they can stalk you to avoid open spells.

The RT from 410 and 709 should stack (unless this has been changed?), which would give you plenty of time for a shot of FI...

[Deathravin]

As far as I know you cannot stack RT on mobs anymore at all.

[Fatsix]

[QUOTE=zhelas;1138322]Spell aiming is important even if you don't cast bolts. You will have better success with focus implosion, focus maelstrom and aimed limb disruption.

/QUOTE]

All spells i really dont use. I've imploded two people. One 8 levels over one younger. I prefer to have higher CS and ward.

[Fatsix]

can demons find people hiding?

[zhelas]

can demons find people hiding?

The best answer to that question is here:

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Minor_Summoning_%28725%29#Find_a_Character

Demons can protect pockets, some are better than others. Demons can also interfere with sanctuary spells.

Just remember if you want to bring your demon into the all of the towns except for Icemule(no permit needed) and Teras(demon permit needed) you will need to master the guild skill of illusions.

[zhelas]

All spells i really dont use. I've imploded two people. One 8 levels over one younger. I prefer to have higher CS and ward.

Fair enough.

You can use unaimed 708 which would work. If you are able to get high enough in trains later, you may decide that those spells are necessary and fixskills to get them.

[Fatsix]

I only see 708 useful for group hunting. Since knocking it down does not lower its TD, i'd rather use 703 if it casts, or 706. Generally its stunned and prone or dead by the time 703 wears off.

[zhelas]

I only see 708 useful for group hunting. Since knocking it down does not lower its TD, i'd rather use 703 if it casts, or 706. Generally its stunned and prone or dead by the time 703 wears off.

706 isn't all what it is cracked up to be. It is a disabler but it is fairly weak. As you gain levels, you will find creatures living and undead that are either stun resistant or immune to the spell.

Our best disablers are 703, aimed 708, 711 and 118(if you web).

Removing the right arm of the creatures you are fighting will prevent 99% of the living creatures and corporal undead from doing anything against you. Which means it can't cast, swing, or use combat maneuvers. Unfortunately the Greater Krynches can still perform their cheap death boulder maneuvers and an Earth elemental can still attack you even when they are missing all of their limbs.

For the remaining creatures and undead, if properly trained, 711 will put them into hard RT and give them damage.

Ewave and 709 are good as well but you will find that those spells are heavily level dependent and again some creatures are more resistant to falling over.

You mentioned that you don't focus implode. That is fine. I try to not use that spell when hunting especially since I love to get loot. However sometimes it can be a great OH SHIT spell to help you maintain crowd control or kill a grizzled creature which has an outrageous TD against sorcerer spells.

At cap Zhelas' CS is 515 which in my opinion is fine for the time being. I can hit almost everything in Nelemar. For creatures like the Triton Sentries (Level 103 Non Corporeal Sorcerer casting bastards) I normally use 703 to prevent it from casting, 715 to lower its TD and 711 to kill it. If I still have trouble focused 720.

You will find folks that swear that having a 532 CS is the only way to play. This works too. It just depends on your hunting style.

Peace

[Fatsix]

my old hunting style was inc 1030/r/loot/r and goto the next room.

Now that i think about it.
After i get to 50 ranks demon. I think i'm going to pick up those SA ranks. I could probobly 1x in it now and i think i'm 3x in spells or real close to it, i could drop that a touch.

[zhelas]

my old hunting style was inc 1030/r/loot/r and goto the next room.

A pure Bard. They are pretty awesome with destruction.

Sorcerers are master disablers.

In my opinion hiding or being invisible to implode someone in CvC is retarded.

We have the option to humiliate who we kill.

[zhelas]

my old hunting style was inc 1030/r/loot/r and goto the next room.

Now that i think about it.
After i get to 50 ranks demon. I think i'm going to pick up those SA ranks. I could probobly 1x in it now and i think i'm 3x in spells or real close to it, i could drop that a touch.

Being much more than 2.5x in spells is a waste of points in my opinion.

[ruineye]

Being much more than 2.5x in spells is a waste of points in my opinion.

I don't play shattered, but it seems like a 125+ endroll with Evil Eye would be certain death for PvP. With enough demon lore, you could probably even tether that to 712...

[zhelas]

I don't play shattered, but it seems like a 125+ endroll with Evil Eye would be certain death for PvP. With enough demon lore, you could probably even tether that to 712...

717 is a good spell for CvC. Especially against squares.

[Fatsix]

Excellent idea with the 717. I really only have had a problem when they are hidden. Need to get them out first.

[zhelas]

Excellent idea with the 717. I really only have had a problem when they are hidden. Need to get them out first.

Ewave or Quake

There is one frustrating thing about Cloak of Shadows. Unless they swing a weapon at you, shoot an arrow???? (I know range use to be flaky with retribution) or use Garrote against you, NONE of the physical cmans will trigger retribution. Sooo they can groin kick you. Sweep your legs. Cut throat etc and retribution will not fire off. (which i think is BS, but it is what it is, so we deal with it)

Cursed gems left in open containers. Be in Stance offensive and cast 715 at your gem and stow it on your person. If a pick pocket has the great opportunity to grab that goody, they will constantly fall down (causing injury) and may have difficulty standing.

[zhelas]

Since there are no rules in Shattered I wonder if this can still happen.

Below is one of the most original player invasions..........

Basically you need to be able to animate a Troll King.....

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=569033&postcount=34

I don't know if they nerfed it so you can't do that anymore.

[Fatsix]

Yeah i remember that, Hilarious. Rogues can hide and stalk you to negate the 709 and 410. They also have a cman to allow them to stand in 1 second. I would need to figure out a way to imbed 609. AG pin?

[zhelas]

Yeah i remember that, Hilarious. Rogues can hide and stalk you to negate the 709 and 410. They also have a cman to allow them to stand in 1 second. I would need to figure out a way to imbed 609. AG pin?

It is true they can stand up again if they are fully trained in that CMAN ....but... they should still be in hard RT.

Get a glass amulet and become invisible if you think you are being stalked. As for sunburst... you will either need to find items with it already imbedded in it, become friends with a Ranger and have them cast it... or scrolls.

You should become proficient with 714 so you are tanked with spells. Therefore even if you are caught off guard by an ambush.. feinted till your stance is less defensive.. knocked down etc etc... your DS is still fairly high.

[zhelas]

You should become proficient with 714 so you are tanked with spells. Therefore even if you are caught off guard by an ambush.. feinted till your stance is less defensive.. knocked down etc etc... your DS is still fairly high.

Mekthros, one of the most talented Sorcerers and Role Players from the past, wrote an excellent scroll infusion guide.

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/spells/scroll_infusion.asp

The guy basically had every defensive spell under the sun on because some folks wanted to kill his sorcerer.

[Fatsix]

It was a duel. My cloak of shadows got him the first time. So its not like i didn't know he was there, just couldn't get him out.

[zhelas]

402 will let you find the rogue

But this discussion really proves that Gemstone IV is not designed well for PvP.

First person to hit the keyboard normally wins.

[Fatsix]

I believe 204 defeats it...