Need IT / Networking Classes Advice - Going Back To School

[Methais]

So I enrolled in a local technical college a couple months ago (www.iticollege.edu) for a 22 month Information Technology / Networking Associate's Degree course. The school itself has a good reputation and I know some people that have gone there for other things (Drafting, Instrument Tech, etc.) and they say good things about the quality of the education and all that.

Problem is, they're expensive as holy fucking hell - $26,000...for a 22 month Associate's Degree course.

Here's the entire curriculum:

Term 1
Success Skills
Math Fundamentals Review
Intro to Information Technology

Term 2
Intro to PC Office Applications
Intro to Computer Networking
Intro to Computer Programming

Term 3
A+ Cert. Preparation Part I
Computer Networks I
Technical Writing

Term 4
A+ Cert. Part II
Computer Networks II
Elective-1 (Student's Choice)*

Term 5
Computer Networks III
A+ Cert. Part III
Computer Networks V

Term 6
Customer Relations
Computer Networks IV (no idea why V is listed before IV, maybe just a typo in the book)
Computer Networks VI

Term 7
Network Security I
Network Security II
Elective-2 (Student's Choice)*

Term 8
Elective-3 (Student's Choice)*
Network Administration I
Network Administration Apps.

*Externship may be in lieu of elective Courses

Elective Courses
Web Design I
Grapic Design
Visual Design I
Visual Design II
Database Design
Database Administration
Web Applications I
Web Applications II
Visual Apps. Development II

==========================

So I guess my question is does this seem worth a $26,000 investment for what I'd be learning? I know a few people that work in IT, one is a network admin for his Parish's school system (Parish = County in Louisiana), the other is a help desk/tech support guy for The Advocate, which is the big newspaper for the Baton Rouge area. Neither of them went to school to learn any of this stuff. The network admin guy said he kind of lucked up and landed a job in a PC shop or something and was able to learn it all on the job. The other guy had a similar deal.

Now I do know a pretty good bit about PCs and all that other than how to pwn people in the face, just not enough to get A+ Certified or anything. I do think I know enough to where if I happened to luck out (I'm not counting on luck, just saying) land something like the first guy, learning the rest would be cake. Most of the people I know that work in IT didn't go to school, and either taught themselves or lucked into it like the ones mentioned above. I've considered trying to teach myself too, but I'd really have no idea at all where to start.

I'm just having reservations on dropping this much money on a course when it seems entirely possible for me to learn the same stuff myself. The course starts in about 3 weeks, and I still haven't filled out all the student loan paperwork, so as far as I know I'm not locked into it yet.

So...anyone wanna offer me some feedback on the course, advice on what you would do in my situation, or any other general advice on how I could go about learning this stuff without spending $26,000 ? I'm gonna check with LSU this week and see if if they have a similar program, which I'm sure would be a fraction of the cost. Other than that though, I don't really know what else to do that doesn't involve going into massive debt, and I hate having debt more than Klaive hates not being Japanese.

For those wondering what happened to my hot dog stand, in a nutshell, the place I was set up at had a fuckload of layoffs shortly after the new year, things dried up pretty quick and never recovered, and I couldn't get set up in another decent spot, as this area isn't really vendor friendly at all. So I let my permits expire last month and that was that. Oh well, it was fun and I made good pile of cash while it lasted.

So yeah, any advice besides shove a hot dog up my ass would be greatly appreciated.

[g++]

No, if you have a decent background in computers get an IT job and then make your employer pay for this shit. I have never had a job interview where they gave a shit if I was A+ or Comptia Certified.

and I am, but I made Hopkins pay for it btw.

[g++]

Also just to throw this out there A+ certification is not worth 26 grand, the test is like 300 to 1k dollars or something like that and you can pretty much pass them with a 100 dollar book on the test and a computer.

[AnticorRifling]

Depends on what you're lookin to do man. If there are jobs out there that would require this kind of course work to get in then it might be worth it. I was required to have my A+ as well as some HP bench certs prior to working at my previous job and all the techs I hired had to have the same. This job I'm at now they could care less since we don't do anything on PCs as far as support/repair.

[AnticorRifling]

Also just to throw this out there A+ certification is not worth 26 grand, the test is like 300 to 1k dollars or something like that and you can pretty much pass them with a 100 dollar book on the test and a computer.

This. The A+ is easy, you can score plenty of study material online.

Don't be one of the IT retards that went to a tech school cause they give you a free laptops and promise teh jorbs!

[Methais]

No, if you have a decent background in computers get an IT job and then make your employer pay for this shit. I have never had a job interview where they gave a shit if I was A+ or Comptia Certified.

and I am, but I made Hopkins pay for it btw.

That's the thing...I don't know what exactly would be considered a decent background in computers. I mean I've pretty much been using them my whole life just about and although I've never tried, I could probably build one from the ground up with minimal assistance. Most of the people I know that don't know fuck about computers call me for tech support stuff and I'm usually able to walk them through things and get their problem fixed and all that. But I don't see me being able to walk in somewhere and sell myself with just what I mentioned above either, as I have nothing IT related on my resume.

I know how to set up basic home networks and all that, which should be cake to anybody that doesn't think the CD tray is a cup holder anyway, etc. I've never had to mess with any network code or any of that, which so far my friends in IT said that that would probably be the most difficult part of the course and that the rest would probably be cake for me.

I hear what you're saying though, I just really have no clue how to go about landing something like how you described, without a piece of paper that says I know how to do XYZ, even if the economy didn't suck nutbutter right now.

[g++]

You might want to try getting experience as a help desk technician if you literally have 0 paper on you. App for a help desk job and explain you are a tech savvy person. After a few months there you can try to move into a IT position that will get you some certs. The thing is you just need to get your foot in the door because honestly 90% of the IT requests I do that are not programming related could be done by anyone with google and an IQ over 90. Most people just hate doing the shit IT people do.

[AnticorRifling]

That's the thing...I don't know what exactly would be considered a decent background in computers. I mean I've pretty much been using them my whole life just about and although I've never tried, I could probably build one from the ground up with minimal assistance. Most of the people I know that don't know fuck about computers call me for tech support stuff and I'm usually able to walk them through things and get their problem fixed and all that. But I don't see me being able to walk in somewhere and sell myself with just what I mentioned above either, as I have nothing IT related on my resume.

I know how to set up basic home networks and all that, which should be cake to anybody that doesn't think the CD tray is a cup holder anyway, etc. I've never had to mess with any network code or any of that, which so far my friends in IT said that that would probably be the most difficult part of the course and that the rest would probably be cake for me.

I hear what you're saying though, I just really have no clue how to go about landing something like how you described, without a piece of paper that says I know how to do XYZ, even if the economy didn't suck nutbutter right now.

Take what you just said here and turn it into:

While my previous employment experience hasn't given me the opportunity to actively engage myself in an IT role I do have experience. As an enthusiast I've assisted several of my friends, family etc. and have become their go to guy for all things computer related. I've had to do everything from setting up a home network to resolving a driver conflict with a new piece of hardware.

As my own boss and business owner I understand the value that can be taken from not only knowledge of the product/service but passing that on to the customer to ensure a good transaction so that you build a customer base for the long term. This is important in the IT field because all of your users are really your customers and you need to strive to provide the best possible service.

What I'm looking for is an opportunity to prove myself and further my education and experience in this career path. As I do enjoy IT as a hobby I think it would make for a pleseant work experience and I would be well suited for this line of work.

etc etc etc

[Methais]

Depends on what you're lookin to do man. If there are jobs out there that would require this kind of course work to get in then it might be worth it. I was required to have my A+ as well as some HP bench certs prior to working at my previous job and all the techs I hired had to have the same. This job I'm at now they could care less since we don't do anything on PCs as far as support/repair.

Honestly I'm not totally sure what I would want to do with it, or probably even what most of the things are that I could do with it. One thing I wouldn't mind doing, and I don't know how much of this curriculum other than the A+ stuff would be useful in it, is open up a small repair shop or something along those lines. The ones around here charge like $55-80 an hour, and they stay busy all the time, and probably at least half of what they do consists of cleaning up other peoples' stupidity, i.e. "Oh noes, I was downloading porn all day and now Windows won't start, help!"

And frankly I'd rather be in business for myself anyway, but I don't wanna get too far ahead of myself here. So I guess it would be either something like that, or try and get a network admin position or something similar.

Another thing I did notice about this school....they say they have like a 95% job placement thing, which I know every school will tell you that. They showed me a list of where the graduates from last year got jobs at, and most of them were tech support/help desk positions. On top of that, the average starting salary of everyone on the list was something like....$15-16 an hour. I made more than that slinging pizzas driving around listening to Slayer all day. Of course, they were quick to point out that those were just the starting salaries and that there were people on the list making more than that, and that this was just the average starting pay of all those people. It didn't exactly get me more excited over the course, but I went ahead anyway for the time being, but the closer I get to being locked into to this massive debt, the more I'm questioning as to whether it's a good idea or not.

[g++]

Anticor is a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.

[AnticorRifling]

They don't make more than that quickly. The techs I hired in at 13-15 an hour still make 13-15 an hour. You require more certs, more experience, etc to move up. And that's your own time and money unless you've got a decent company (good luck).

If I were in your shoes I'd probably look at your hot dog business and find another venue for it. You seemed to be enjoying that and having a good time, that's worth a shit ton more than sitting in a cube all damn day.

[AnticorRifling]

Anticor is a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.

Fuckin horrible isn't it.

[AnticorRifling]

Damnit Meth...I'm totally grillin some sort of wurst tonight because of this. Hot mustard and some fresk kraut fuck yeah!

[Methais]

They don't make more than that quickly. The techs I hired in at 13-15 an hour still make 13-15 an hour. You require more certs, more experience, etc to move up. And that's your own time and money unless you've got a decent company (good luck).

The $15 hour part wasn't really the problem I was getting at, so much as the spending $26,000 part to get it.


If I were in your shoes I'd probably look at your hot dog business and find another venue for it. You seemed to be enjoying that and having a good time, that's worth a shit ton more than sitting in a cube all damn day.

I did find another spot to set up in, which went well for a week or so. Then the guy that owned the building ran me off. The business that was there was cool with me being there, just not the landlord. Then to add to it, the restaurant I was using as my commissary shut down too, so I was operating illegally for a while, which would have caught up with me eventually. I did like doing it, but at the same time I didn't. The money was good, but I felt like I was literally feeling my brain turn to mush, as there's literally 0 thought process involved, and at least around this area, there's no real job security in it. If I was in a big city like Austin (they have them all over New Orleans too, but Lucky Dog pretty much as a monopoly there and probably a mob backing it too) it'd probably work out. They don't even allow roadside vendors around here. The ones I do see, they just stay there until the city runs them off, then they move down the road and do it again until they eventually start getting fined, then they stop.

[g++]

Another thing I did notice about this school....they say they have like a 95% job placement thing, which I know every school will tell you that. They showed me a list of where the graduates from last year got jobs at, and most of them were tech support/help desk positions. On top of that, the average starting salary of everyone on the list was something like....$15-16 an hour. I made more than that slinging pizzas driving around listening to Slayer all day. Of course, they were quick to point out that those were just the starting salaries and that there were people on the list making more than that, and that this was just the average starting pay of all those people. It didn't exactly get me more excited over the course, but I went ahead anyway for the time being, but the closer I get to being locked into to this massive debt, the more I'm questioning as to whether it's a good idea or not.

Im not really suprised because A+ cert != IT experience. The A+ tests your ability to memorize a bunch of facts about computers. When you actually sit down and start trouble shooting the weird shit that goes on with corporate work boxs with insane domaining issues and dozens of servers your going to be in an entirely different world. The only real way to be experienced in IT is to do it and become better at learning the ins and outs of networked enviornments. If I literally worked with a guy who had no experience except the A+ the only job I could really give him would be to upgrade memory...like literally thats the only thing I learned getting A+ certified was about different memory pins that actually still helps me.

You could likely land a help desk job with some confidence and your current skill set and do fine if you wanted to. That experience would be more attractive than an A+ certification if I was interviewing people(although I never would be) and they would pay you to do it as opposed to the reverse.

[Stanley Burrell]

Elective Courses:

Grapic Design

We need Goatse in high-def. I say go for it.

[EasternBrand]

Take what you just said here and turn it into:

While my previous employment experience hasn't given me the opportunity to actively engage myself in an IT role I do have experience. As an enthusiast I've assisted several of my friends, family etc. and have become their go to guy for all things computer related. I've had to do everything from setting up a home network to resolving a driver conflict with a new piece of hardware.

As my own boss and business owner I understand the value that can be taken from not only knowledge of the product/service but passing that on to the customer to ensure a good transaction so that you build a customer base for the long term. This is important in the IT field because all of your users are really your customers and you need to strive to provide the best possible service.

What I'm looking for is an opportunity to prove myself and further my education and experience in this career path. As I do enjoy IT as a hobby I think it would make for a pleseant work experience and I would be well suited for this line of work.

etc etc etc

Can't rep you again, but this is A+ advice for turning lack of experience to your favor.

I don't know shit about the current IT market, but there is absolutely no way I would ever counsel anyone to personally debt-finance sticker price on a $26,000 associate's degree from a for-profit school.

[g++]

^^Exactly. If you want to get the certifications you could get A+ Certified and A+ network certified for like 2k and the cost of two exams practice books. If you need experience find someone to pay you to do it. I dont see paying 26k for a job you could probably get with a good interview and a little charisma.

[Asrial]

Yeah, add me to the bandwagon.. I don't think it's worth it.

[Sean of the Thread]

What happened to the SUPER DOG?

Also that is a rip off man. You can get a regular AA/AS for a lot less and take most of those certs along the way doing so turning your degree into an AS of whatever your specialty is.

And as was said make your employer pay for that shit. Paid for my MCSE and all the others. I had to sign a non compete in return but it didn't matter anyways.

[thefarmer]

^^Exactly. If you want to get the certifications you could get A+ Certified and A+ network certified for like 2k and the cost of two exams practice books.

When I worked in the bookstores I had 20-30 people every week come in asking about books for passing <insert cert here>*. Most of those people were repeat customers every quarter (lots of tech jobs here that pay for the testing) and while I haven't personally used the books, from the customer's feedback, they seemed to have no trouble passing from just studying their books.

ExamPrep, CompTia, and ExamCram seemed to be the most popular. Granted they're publishers are pretty large, so it might just be a matter of flooding the market. Either way, it can't hurt to go visit the local bookstore and browse the shelves.


*Being priced from ~$30-75 computer books are typically most stores #1 money maker per square inch and in the top 2-3 in category sales.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Meth, I recently got a job in IT to sort of get my foot in the door and start getting experience. I'm making a career change for a lot of the same reasons you are- not feeling mentally stimulated, not enough job security, etc.

Really, really slut up your resume and cover letter- I managed to do it with my pastry chef work experience, even though it felt ridiculous at the time. Try to see how much you can learn on your own of things that will help. Look for jobs that are looking for IT interns and assistants.

I think you'd be better off too if you want the education to go for a Bachelors, do two years at a community college and finish out the last two at a nicer college, if you swing it right you'll probably pay much less than 26k and you'll have a higher degree that's worth more.

[Sam]

http://www.wgu.edu/online_it_degrees/information_technology_degree


It's a not-for-profit school and you pay a flat $2900 for 6 months, and finish as many units as your schedule allows.

I'm not sure what kind of reputation they have, but with paying for nothing buy my tuition, I've obtained A+, Network+, Security+, Java Associate, and a couple CIW certifications... so that gives you some useless paper.

I'm just throwing this out there as an idea, and I can't vouch for how well the instruction is, as I'm only doing this because I need to use my GI Bill and I need to get a meaningless degree so my boss can charge the government more for my services. I've passed pretty much all the courses based on stuff I already know, or using resources not provided by the school...

[zhelas]

How much computer knowledge do you have?

A+ and Network+ are good beginning courses.

If you want networks. Cisco certs are a good way to go. Get your Cisco Certified Network Associates. Work to get some exp. Then go for your Cisco Certified Network Professional cert.

[zhelas]

They don't make more than that quickly. The techs I hired in at 13-15 an hour still make 13-15 an hour. You require more certs, more experience, etc to move up. And that's your own time and money unless you've got a decent company (good luck).

For this reason I left IT and went back to school. I was getting tired of finishing my certs only to have them be outdated because Bill Gates gets a hard on by releasing new operating systems every couple of years.

The only way to have a company pay for your training really is to work for an IT company that offers it. Otherwise you pay for everything yourself.

[Warriorbird]

I think you'd be better off too if you want the education to go for a Bachelors, do two years at a community college and finish out the last two at a nicer college, if you swing it right you'll probably pay much less than 26k and you'll have a higher degree that's worth more.

This. My cousin did 2 years at a community college and now his employer is pony-ing up for the last two at a state school. Having spent a little time teaching at one of those 'for profit' colleges the people who've gotten further with it have always sought more education.

[g++]

For this reason I left IT and went back to school. I was getting tired of finishing my certs only to have them be outdated because Bill Gates gets a hard on by releasing new operating systems every couple of years.

The only way to have a company pay for your training really is to work for an IT company that offers it. Otherwise you pay for everything yourself.

I have always worked on research studies at Universities so I guess I take training for granted. The other day I was telling my boss I was having problems setting up a server because I was used to an older version and blamo im signed up for a microsoft cert course on 2008. I didnt know it was hard getting these certs at other jobs.

As far as Cisco they have a program where you sign up to be a cisco slave for 3 months and get your certs for cheap and then are placed in a 40k job. I think that program is pretty competitive though.