Cheaper Gas?

[Tendarian]

I was watching the news today and they had a story about e85 gas that is more ethanol than gas and can run in some cars. Its healthier for the enviroment and yada yada. The part that caught my attention is that it said it sells for .85 cents a gallon compared to the 1.60+ now for regular gas. I think they should run with this as it seems i heard on the news as well that OPEC is lowering production of barrels even tho the prices are so high. I know there are other possible alternatives but i live in MN and this stuff is from corn right? :)

Anyway heres a link

http://www.kstp.com/article/view/10953/

[Jack]

The problem with that type of fuel is it will not run in 95% of the vehicles on the road today. You need to use a much richer fuel mixture when using any alchohol based fuel, and todays vehicles are not set up to do that. Also, you need to replace all of your fuel lines, as the fuel will eat away at normal rubber fuel lines. If you have an old carburated vehicle, you can easily adjust the fuel mixture, and replacing the soft lines is not too hard. With fuel injection it requires a different computer chip. One option on Ford Rangers is a fuel quality sensor, which tells the computer what sort of fuel you are running, and it will automaticly adjust for it. If they'd do the same for all new vehicles this would be a viable option instead of gasoline.

-Jack

[Warriorbird]

You can get an astonishing amount of Fords to run with E85. In addition, the Escape hybrid is coming out later this summer. Speeds below 45 it runs off electric, speeds above 45 it runs on gas and charged the electric at the same time.

[TheEschaton]

I think they should run with this as it seems i heard on the news as well that OPEC is lowering production of barrels even tho the prices are so high. I know there are other possible alternatives but i live in MN and this stuff is from corn right?

It's a good thing you mentioned this. THEY read this board every morning, I'm sure they'll be interested in your idea.


-TheE-

[Tsa`ah]

Jack nailed most of the technicals on the head. Currently late model Fords are the only domestic vehicle able to run this fuel but require some conversion.

Ford does sell E85 vehicles already; you just have to order it that way.

The problem with ethanol is carbon build up. E85 is hell on the engine. Carbon build up in the combustion chamber, the valve train, exhaust valves and intake manifolds. E85 engines require lots of maintenance in the way of carbon removal and valve jobs.

De-carbing the intakes is rather cheap. A bottle of sea-foam in the gas tank twice a year or GM top end cleaner through the vacuum lines. The premature maintenance items that require the disassembly of the top end... expensive.

Ethanol is a wonderful thing, but in the long run it's cost the same as regular unleaded when you account for maintenance.

Bio-diesel, that's the way to go.

[Tendarian]

It's a good thing you mentioned this. THEY read this board every morning, I'm sure they'll be interested in your idea.


-TheE-

What happened to the unicorn heart liberals? Like my step daughter when she was 14,she wanted to help everyone. Seems like lately they have decided to squeak like Dean,Gore or Carville(ever seen Carville get going on a rant? He looks like satan). When did the libs get bitter? Who crushed their unicorn hearts? You dont see me calling you a retard or a dumbass. No one politically important ever reads this board,so is your point we shouldnt discuss it? Does any GS staff read this board? If not we might as well not discuss anything. And if your arguing that i used THEY instead of US when talking about the gov't or OPEC than your right,cause i do consider them they.

Thanks to everyone else who posted though as when i saw it on the news i figured there was a reverse side in something that seemed like a perfect solution.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tendarian
When did the libs get bitter? Probably during that whole 2000 election thing, if I had to guess.

[Jack]

E-85 does not cause carbon build up on it's own, the deposits that will slowly choke out the fuel filter, injectors, and make it's way into the cumbustion chambers are caused by the Ethenol based fuel carrying all of the varnish, carbon, and other deposits left by gasoline through the fuel system into the engine. We pulled apart a 327 that ran nothing but ethenol for 15,000 miles. It was in a sprint car and ran several races before being pulled out for overhaul. There was no layer of carbon on the piston, in the combustion chambers, or on the intake valves. The exhaust valves had a slight carbon build up, but nothing like you see in a Gasoline engine. It being a race engine, there was a good amount of wear, but overall it was in good shape. Anyway, that's my experience with ethenol fuel.

-Jack

[Warriorbird]

I had a chance to look under the hood of some E85 using vehicles myself. It was a pretty neat experience. Ford's next step from making a hybrid Escape is apparently a hybrid Focus. I imagine the other manufacturers will probably follow that bandwagon. E85 might do well too if it got more promotion.

[Back]

Eco fuel. What a joke!

The major oil/car companys WILL figure out a way to patent a chemical off the periodic table. REMEMBER this is a capatalist society.

Methane baby. Thats the real fuel of life.

[Tsa`ah]

I would say the sprint car is the exception for two big reasons. It runs wide open or close to it with very little idle or stop and go. Assume along the same lines of opening up your commuter car once in a while to kick off the cobwebs, there is some truth to it. Second; it runs on pure ethanol. Alcohol burns a bit richer and much cooler than gas. E85 is going to burn cooler and but still require a rich fuel to air mixture leaving more gas incompletely combusted.

I've pulled apart many a top end and, like you, have noticed alcohol burners are usually cleaner. The two E85s I've poked around in are sooty as hell.

I'd say with a good water injection system and an intercooler, you could run with a much higher air ratio and eliminate the problem all together, but we're talking a costly modification that a manufacturer isn't going to make. Just look at any other manufacturer, not many intercooled turbo engines out there that are factory, and those are the cars that desperately need them to combat detonation and knock.

[Warriorbird]

Heck with Eco fuel. I could care less. Cheaper fuel I'm all in favor of, however. I see no reason why a conservative wouldn't be either.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Jack
The problem with that type of fuel is it will not run in 95% of the vehicles on the road today. You need to use a much richer fuel mixture when using any alchohol based fuel, and todays vehicles are not set up to do that. Also, you need to replace all of your fuel lines, as the fuel will eat away at normal rubber fuel lines. If you have an old carburated vehicle, you can easily adjust the fuel mixture, and replacing the soft lines is not too hard. With fuel injection it requires a different computer chip. One option on Ford Rangers is a fuel quality sensor, which tells the computer what sort of fuel you are running, and it will automaticly adjust for it. If they'd do the same for all new vehicles this would be a viable option instead of gasoline.

-Jack

Yay for having the AAR Barracuda I always wanted :)

-Melissa