Should Shattered Have Portals?

[Methais]

Yes, yes they should.

EDIT: Should have added - if you don't play, don't vote. Too late I suppose.

[waywardgs]

^

[m444w]

I think prime should too... heh. Less tedium, more fun. And then they wouldn't have to worry about people complaining about the landing/Solhaven/wherever not having capped hunting grounds.

[Anebriated]

You got a copied version of prime not plat.

[m444w]

I fail to see how implementing a system from plat with the playerbase where it is now is taking anything away from Plat. The entire focus of Plat being its tight-knit community, and more old-school approach to GS (droppage, more GM interaction, customization/titles blah blah, etc.) All it is, is sharing an idea that decreases tedium with other people who also enjoy GS

[Methais]

You got a copied version of prime not plat.

That's really the only argument you can come up with?

[pabstblueribbon]

There are actually a lot of arguments as to why portals would be bad in Shattered. But do we really need to go over it again?

[Senglent]

I think it would be nice to have the perks from both instances wrapped up in one, but it's not something I would have a fit about if they don't do it.

So Yes it would be nice but not really neccesary I guess is my stance.

Pretty much the same thing I said on the offical boards.

[Senglent]

Ohh and heres a little snippet for everyone

I log into Prime I see 150-300 people logged in

I log into Shattered I see 80-200 people logged in

I log into Plat I see 3-60 people logged in

Now these numbers depend on WHEN you log in as at odd times you will not see many people in any instance.

The main reasons they have portals in Plat is the smaller amount of players. Droppage so that people can make an attempt to recover people and gear even when they are on the other side of Elanthia.

So to be honest without droppage/smaller community in Shattered I don't really see Portals getting added.

[Some Rogue]

How many of those people in Shattered are unique people? Also, how many are actually at the keyboard?

[Inspire]

Solomon will add portals to shattered as soon as he realizes how much money he can make by finally having a NOTHING BUT FUN version of GS.

MORE FUN, LESS TEDIUM. That should be the motto of Shattered.

[pabstblueribbon]

Solomon will add portals to shattered as soon as he realizes how much money he can make by finally having a NOTHING BUT FUN version of GS.

MORE FUN, LESS TEDIUM. That should be the motto of Shattered.

Would you please shut the fuck up already?

[Methais]

There are actually a lot of arguments as to why portals would be bad in Shattered. But do we really need to go over it again?

Right now where everyone's still low level, most people are in the Landing. Eventually as people advance, they're going to spread out. Almost everywhere being a ghost town is already an issue in Prime, it would be even worse in Shattered.

The only real arguments (and bad ones at that) I've heard on the officials against portals are things like:

- It removes the intended time sink of having to travel. Just take a look at WoW now after they've removed those time sinks, it's a shell of what it used to be.

I think WoW pwns more now than ever due to all the pointless and annoying time sinks Blizzard has removed, especially the time sink of spamming LFG in trade in order to do things like run heroics. Being able to log in and play the game right away is pretty awesome I think.

The other argument I've heard is:

- It will make escaping from griefers more difficult.

First off, if you don't wanna deal with griefers, Shattered probably isn't for you. Second, if someone is griefing you, portals make it that much easier for people to come help you out. I doubt you'll find anyone willing to spend 30 minutes to 10 hours (Teras boat) to travel across Elanthia to kill a griefer for you.

This doesn't have much to with the closest rescuer being too far away to come rescue anyone (though that will still apply too I'm sure), and everything to do with player interaction suffering because the game is too big for the population. Almost all the action seems to be in TSC right now, which is expected at the current player level, but eventually people are going to spread out all over.

For example, I prefer to hunt post cap on Teras, because I like Temple Nelemar better than the Rift and OTF. The side effect of that is Teras is a boring ass place to be otherwise because there's hardly anybody around and most of those who are around are afk (Teras was a blast back in the day when there were people all over the place). So I can either choose to hunt in areas I dislike hunting in in order to have people to interact with, or I can stay on Teras, hunt, go afk, get sidetracked by something else and log out.

Most of the people arguing against portals will probably be the same ones QQing the loudest later on when they can't find anyone around their area that isn't afk or they're forced to decay (or log out indefinitely to avoid it) because the closest rescue is across the Dragonspine.

There are plenty of reasons why portals would be good for Shattered. I've yet to hear one good reason why having them would have a negative impact on the game.

At the absolute very least, the mine carts should have their timers drastically reduced, as well as the Glaesen Star schedule. The trip to/from EN isn't all that bad except for the stupid mine carts where you spend 20 minutes literally doing nothing, and the 10 hour boat schedule for Teras is just ridiculous these days.

Having to spend a bunch of time doing pointless mundane shit you don't want to do (spend a bunch of time running a travel script) before being able to do the things you do want to go (hunt, interact with people, etc.) in a game is just retarded.

And before someone plays the "lazy" or "ez mode" card like someone did on the officials, keep in mind that things can't get any lazier or easier than being able to level up your character while afk, so complaining about it for traveling from one town to another won't exactly be a good argument.

[Swami71]

I don't play shattered but the Chronomage is a great silver drain. So its better for the economy to have no portals IMO.

[Some Rogue]

I like how the majority of people who voted no, don't even play.

[Methais]

I don't play shattered but the Chronomage is a great silver drain. So its better for the economy to have no portals IMO.

Wouldn't silver drains = less silvers floating around = silvers worth more = better economy?

Pretty sure the chronomage system hasn't had any real effect on Prime's economy anyway, especially with the 300k pricetag for using it more than once every 3 days. Most people won't pay that, at least on a regular basis.

[Inspire]

I don't play shattered but the Chronomage is a great silver drain. So its better for the economy to have no portals IMO.


They could charge for access to the portals if "silver drain" is really an issue. In shattered however, where you can AFK script 24/7, it's not really required because it adds just another time sink to avoid other time sinks.

I'd still pay silvers for portals if that allowed them.

[Swami71]

Wouldn't silver drains = less silvers floating around = silvers worth more = better economy?

Pretty sure the chronomage system hasn't had any real effect on Prime's economy anyway, especially with the 300k pricetag for using it more than once every 3 days. Most people won't pay that, at least on a regular basis.

Yes the first part exactly. I think it adds up :shrug:

I know I drop a around 600k every month on my MA crew. Its better than no silver drain. Just a thought is all. Whatever you guys want though cause I don't even play shattered.

[Methais]

Yes the first part exactly. I think it adds up :shrug:

I know I drop a around 600k every month on my MA crew. Its better than no silver drain. Just a thought is all. Whatever you guys want though cause I don't even play shattered.

I read your post backwards and a little bit sideways.

Either way, portals > no portals.

[Monotonous]

No rational argument against portals has been presented. There have been a lot of pussies telling us about their "feelings", but it's been emotional carebear shit that belongs in Prime.

Less Tedium = More Fun

Start and End of argument.

[pabstblueribbon]

Well I guess I'm the only one that doesn't want them. Here's my reasons why:

Its not so much that portals will make griefing easier, or harder, its more that some people want to stay away from asshats in general. There are those of us who want a more IC game sans GMs. There are those of us that want pocketed anal cavities. I just want to be able to stay away from them.

With portals, its almost impossible to separate yourself from dickbags. Without them, they actually have to sink in time to come harass you, which is discouraging.

Also, portals just 'cheapens' the world. I know a lot of you just want an interactive /b/ chat room, but I don't. Thats my opinion. If it happens, it happens, if it doesn't, it doesn't.

[SanGreal]

Right now where everyone's still low level, most people are in the Landing. Eventually as people advance, they're going to spread out. Almost everywhere being a ghost town is already an issue in Prime, it would be even worse in Shattered.

The only real arguments (and bad ones at that) I've heard on the officials against portals are things like:

- It removes the intended time sink of having to travel. Just take a look at WoW now after they've removed those time sinks, it's a shell of what it used to be.

I think WoW pwns more now than ever due to all the pointless and annoying time sinks Blizzard has removed, especially the time sink of spamming LFG in trade in order to do things like run heroics. Being able to log in and play the game right away is pretty awesome I think.

The other argument I've heard is:

- It will make escaping from griefers more difficult.

First off, if you don't wanna deal with griefers, Shattered probably isn't for you. Second, if someone is griefing you, portals make it that much easier for people to come help you out. I doubt you'll find anyone willing to spend 30 minutes to 10 hours (Teras boat) to travel across Elanthia to kill a griefer for you.

This doesn't have much to with the closest rescuer being too far away to come rescue anyone (though that will still apply too I'm sure), and everything to do with player interaction suffering because the game is too big for the population. Almost all the action seems to be in TSC right now, which is expected at the current player level, but eventually people are going to spread out all over.

For example, I prefer to hunt post cap on Teras, because I like Temple Nelemar better than the Rift and OTF. The side effect of that is Teras is a boring ass place to be otherwise because there's hardly anybody around and most of those who are around are afk (Teras was a blast back in the day when there were people all over the place). So I can either choose to hunt in areas I dislike hunting in in order to have people to interact with, or I can stay on Teras, hunt, go afk, get sidetracked by something else and log out.

Most of the people arguing against portals will probably be the same ones QQing the loudest later on when they can't find anyone around their area that isn't afk or they're forced to decay (or log out indefinitely to avoid it) because the closest rescue is across the Dragonspine.

There are plenty of reasons why portals would be good for Shattered. I've yet to hear one good reason why having them would have a negative impact on the game.

At the absolute very least, the mine carts should have their timers drastically reduced, as well as the Glaesen Star schedule. The trip to/from EN isn't all that bad except for the stupid mine carts where you spend 20 minutes literally doing nothing, and the 10 hour boat schedule for Teras is just ridiculous these days.

Having to spend a bunch of time doing pointless mundane shit you don't want to do (spend a bunch of time running a travel script) before being able to do the things you do want to go (hunt, interact with people, etc.) in a game is just retarded.

And before someone plays the "lazy" or "ez mode" card like someone did on the officials, keep in mind that things can't get any lazier or easier than being able to level up your character while afk, so complaining about it for traveling from one town to another won't exactly be a good argument.

Excellent attempt at a strawman. I guess it was too hard to continue the debate on the officials where you would have to respond the the actual arguments presented?

The game is designed around having distinct regions. There are different societies, hunting grounds, population levels, shops (npc & player), racial pricing, etc. The long travel times force you to evaluate these things when you choose which region to spend your time in. I'd love to be ranking up in CoL right now, but my hunting ground of choice is in RR (where we also have no healbots). Portals eliminates those choices and dumbs the game down. If you apply this concept to any other mechanic in the game: if you didn't have to choose between skills, or cmans, or racial modifiers, etc it would sound stupid -- so what makes portals special?

Travel is incredibly tedious and overlong. I don't argue with that. It should be made more interesting and probably reduced. My argument is that the town system, as its designed, doesn't work without that deterrent. If it only took 5 seconds to ;go2 every town what is the point of having separate towns?

The point about WoW was a side note that I shouldn't have included in my argument. I was trying to illustrate that people look to eliminate everything boring from a game without any consideration of the impact it would have on the overall gameplay.

[Inspire]

Its not so much that portals will make griefing easier, or harder, its more that some people want to stay away from asshats in general. There are those of us who want a more IC game sans GMs. There are those of us that want pocketed anal cavities. I just want to be able to stay away from them.

Instead of trying to stay away from them, why not treat them like a scary troll and kill them?

I do get what you're saying, but I don't think portals will stop the activity you listed, but instead only make it take longer to accomplish. It would also take them longer to go away from you because they're trapped by time sinks.

[Methais]

With portals, its almost impossible to separate yourself from dickbags. Without them, they actually have to sink in time to come harass you, which is discouraging.

Just like how everyone said Shattered would be a nonstop killfest from day 1 right? Plus if you were being actively harassed that badly, what's to stop you from calling in some friends and watch as they walk through the same portal and kill your griefer.

What would you do if a griefer like you describe happens to be in the same town as you anyway? Having no portals won't help you there. Best case, you'll have to waste a bunch of your time traveling to a different town to get away from him. The griefer door swings both ways in the portal argument, making it a non-issue from both sides.


There are those of us who want a more IC game sans GMs. There are those of us that want pocketed anal cavities. I just want to be able to stay away from them.

Just because people aren't saying, "Ye there elf, take yourself yonder and fetch me the finest ale this side of the Dragonspine!" doesn't mean they're not RPing. Whoever is playing Rambo is a pretty good example of that from what I've seen.

And if you just wanna keep to yourself in your own little corner all IC like, how does that make Shattered any different than Prime for you, unless you just wanna afk script your levels? In which case, why would you even care if there are portals or not if you're not even there while a script plays the game for you?

Unless you're causing problems in Prime, you'll almost never see or interact with any GMs, not counting GM characters like merchants and such.

[Liagala]

With portals, its almost impossible to separate yourself from dickbags. Without them, they actually have to sink in time to come harass you, which is discouraging.

Actually, portals would make it a lot easier to separate yourself from the asshats, unless you specifically piss one off. With portals, they'll go to their hunting ground of choice, fry, and return to Landing for their shenanigans. Almost all the asshats will be congregated in Landing, with occasional hunting runs elsewhere - at which time they're probably too busy to bother with you. You then have the entire rest of the world to hang out in. Yes, there will be random griefers, and yes they can still find you and cause trouble - but they can do that anyway. Lack of portals would mean that you have to switch hunting grounds to get away from a griefer near you. With portals, you can just switch resting spots and still get to your preferred hunting area.

[m444w]

Portals eliminates those choices and dumbs the game down. If you apply this concept to any other mechanic in the game: if you didn't have to choose between skills, or cmans, or racial modifiers, etc it would sound stupid -- so what makes portals special?


An excellent attempt at attempting to use hyperbole to prove a point...

However, giving everyone implosion and immolate and mobiles and weapon bonding and whatever other ridiculous comparison you can make up does, is not that same for two reasons.

Firstly, portals do not affect game balance, and infact reduce the amount of coding the GMs should ultimately be doing (coding areas 1-100 for each town, in my opinion, should have been done long ago).

Secondly, The main reason for portals is they merely groups of people to socialize, roleplay, whatever. As Methais pointed out, it's hard to remain interested in between hunts when there are 10 people in town, and 9 of them are zombies. And with most of those zombiers (who I have nothing against, they merely play the game differently), are going to move to shattered where they don't have to do anything put hit a button and leave it up while they work, sleep, and have lives.

So... Giving a dark elf the spirit regen of a halfling and the strength of a giantman does not equal adding the option for people to congregate and roleplay in a roleplaying game (or socializing game).

[SanGreal]

So... Giving a dark elf the spirit regen of a halfling and the strength of a giantman does not equal adding the option for people to congregate and roleplay in a roleplaying game (or socializing game).

They do have the option to do that though. They are choosing not because of other mechanical reasons, which doesn't square with your statement that "portals do not affect game balance"

[m444w]

They do have the option to do that though. They are choosing not because of other mechanical reasons, which doesn't square with your statement that "portals do not affect game balance"

It's called "BS"

[pabstblueribbon]

Look, I know you guys want portals. But seriously, stop and read what Sangreal wrote.

I don't want 'ye olde elf' bs roleplay either. I just want something in genre, without flashing neon signs that say come fuck methais's goatse.

To Liagala, your reasoning that the 'asshats' will just stay in the landing is presumptuous at best. With portals, regardless if you piss them off, if they have the gumption to annoy you with their presence, they can do so much easier.

In conclusion:
Fuck portals,
and fuck you.
:love:

[Methais]

Excellent attempt at a strawman. I guess it was too hard to continue the debate on the officials where you would have to respond the the actual arguments presented?

I've responded to every argument on the officials. If I missed any, feel free to link me to them.


The game is designed around having distinct regions. There are different societies, hunting grounds, population levels, shops (npc & player), racial pricing, etc. The long travel times force you to evaluate these things when you choose which region to spend your time in. I'd love to be ranking up in CoL right now, but my hunting ground of choice is in RR (where we also have no healbots). Portals eliminates those choices and dumbs the game down.

Portals wouldn't dumb the game down. It gives you more choices. How is having more choices bad again?


If you apply this concept to any other mechanic in the game: if you didn't have to choose between skills, or cmans, or racial modifiers, etc it would sound stupid -- so what makes portals special?

The difference between those two scenarios is the skill argument directly benefits your character. The portal argument directly benefits the player.

And I'm the one making strawman arguments?


Travel is incredibly tedious and overlong. I don't argue with that. It should be made more interesting and probably reduced. My argument is that the town system, as its designed, doesn't work without that deterrent. If it only took 5 seconds to ;go2 every town what is the point of having separate towns?

Different hunting areas. Different feel, different "scenery", etc. None of those things are negatively impacted by being able to access them via portals.

What's the point of having separate towns when most of them have very few if anybody in them to interact with because the game world is too big for its population and nobody wants to deal with the hassle of travel time sinks?


The point about WoW was a side note that I shouldn't have included in my argument. I was trying to illustrate that people look to eliminate everything boring from a game without any consideration of the impact it would have on the overall gameplay.

Yes, and the elimination of all that boring shit in WoW has made the game tremendously better. There have been plenty of times in GS where by the time I got to EN or Teras or wherever, I didn't even feel like playing anymore, so I logged out and played something else. I doubt that's a unique situation.

The community is what has kept GS alive for so long, not travel time sinks. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but as the game world has gotten bigger, the playerbase has gotten smaller. A lot of that is due to stupid game mechanics changes, yeah, but I think it's safe to say that the community becoming less and less accessible play a role too. As much as I like EN as a whole, most of my favorite memories from GS were from before EN opened.
Kind of reminds me of how WWE started really sucking bad when they split Raw and Smackdown into different brands, sorta.

Why the need for walls instead of bridges, especially in a free for all version like Shattered?

[Liagala]

To Liagala, your reasoning that the 'asshats' will just stay in the landing is presumptuous at best. With portals, regardless if you piss them off, if they have the gumption to annoy you with their presence, they can do so much easier.

Why wouldn't they stay in landing? The asshats are being asshats because they're at their keyboards, bored, looking for something entertaining. People are entertaining. Where do you find the most people? Landing. That's not presumptuous, it's logical.

Without portals, someone trapped on Teras (like Methais) for hunting grounds has no option but to run around goatse'ing whoever is nearby when they get bored - which very well might be you. With portals, he can go do it in Landing and let you enjoy a calmer atmosphere.

[pabstblueribbon]

They 'MIGHT' stay in the landing. It is logical that they would want to, but there is nothing that would restrict them to go elsewhere. That doesn't negate the fact that portals would make it easier for them to spread out.

[Liagala]

They 'MIGHT' stay in the landing. It is logical that they would want to, but there is nothing that would restrict them to go elsewhere. That doesn't negate the fact that portals would make it easier for them to spread out.

So you agree that it's logical they would want to stay in Landing where most of the people are, but you still feel that they would go against those wishes and scatter to the four winds? I'm not saying it's impossible for idiots to be anywhere in the world, but you're more likely to find them scattered with no portals, because they get locked into an area to hunt. There are going to be griefers with or without portals, but with portals, I think they're more likely to be mostly in one place, and therefore more easily avoidable.

[Deathravin]

Missing a few options up there...
"Yes, maybe after a couple months"
"Maybe, wait for it to calm down a bit and see"

[Monotonous]

;go2 <town> creates the exact same problems that you are trying to use to argue against portals.

1) There isn't a major mechanics choice: I hit ;go2, make a sammich, and I'm at my hunting grounds. If using a portal costs silvers then the time requirement mechanic is replaced with another cost, thus balanced.

2) There isn't "world scope": I'm AFK. You can sit there if you want and watch text scroll, but don't make me. Why are you so irate about a magical portal in your fantasy fairy roleplay, but my giant black double-ended dildo is okay?

3) You can't escape the assholes: They use ;go2 and will find you in a few minutes anyway. Portals with a silvers cost makes them have to pay to hunt you instead of invest time, thus balanced.

We're left with benefits which far outweigh the arguments against(that exist regardless).

[pabstblueribbon]

So you agree that it's logical they would want to stay in Landing where most of the people are, but you still feel that they would go against those wishes and scatter to the four winds? I'm not saying it's impossible for idiots to be anywhere in the world, but you're more likely to find them scattered with no portals, because they get locked into an area to hunt. There are going to be griefers with or without portals, but with portals, I think they're more likely to be mostly in one place, and therefore more easily avoidable.

Exactly. I'm saying that even though its logical, it doesn't stop them from doing it. The landing may split, asshats on one side go elsewhere and claim the town. Whatever. I like the separate towns because you can 'band' with the locals. With portals everyones a fucking local. And if you have 'issues' with people you have to sort it out on your own, instead of, hey PC clan guys, there's this fucker over here so hey, lets all 50 of us go over and gank him repeatedly.

Though, what I thought shattered would be and what I want it to be, simply isn't what you and some of the other peoples thought or want, so we could argue this indefinitely and never agree.

[Methais]

As Methais pointed out, it's hard to remain interested in between hunts when there are 10 people in town, and 9 of them are zombies.

Not only that, but like with real zombies, you'll become one of them too. When I return from a hunt and everybody on Teras is afk, I go afk and become infected. What else are you gonna do in between hunts when there's nobody to interact with? 99% of the time on Teras, GS is basically a single player game for me because the few people that are there are usually afk.


They do have the option to do that though. They are choosing not because of other mechanical reasons, which doesn't square with your statement that "portals do not affect game balance"

With the "other mechanical reason" being what, advancing your character? Leveling up while being able to socialize in between hunts is unbalancing?

So people should be forced to either hunt or RP, but not both if their hunting area is in the wrong town? Most people like to RP/socialize in between hunts, not choose either or, and travel takes so long that by the time you got anywhere to socialize while unfrying, it'll be time to turn back around and go hunt again.

Yeah I can totally see how "Sorry I'm gonna stay here and hunt because I don't wanna spend a half hour going to the Landing to socialize and then spend another half hour traveling back to EN just to do it over and over again" would be unbalancing. Totally.


They 'MIGHT' stay in the landing. It is logical that they would want to, but there is nothing that would restrict them to go elsewhere. That doesn't negate the fact that portals would make it easier for them to spread out.

They're just as likely, perhaps even more likely, to use a portal to leave their selected griefing area as they are likely to not leave without portals because they don't feel like dealing with the travel.

Do you people who are against portals think Solhaven and Icemule should have mine cart equivalents put in place too? If not, why?


I don't want 'ye olde elf' bs roleplay either. I just want something in genre, without flashing neon signs that say come fuck methais's goatse.

You're definitely playing the wrong game then.

[pabstblueribbon]

You're definitely playing the wrong game then.

Really? Some of us bought into shattered for reasons other than being able to be out of genre. I thought you were a smart guy.

[Monotonous]

You're definitely playing the wrong game then.
Basically this. Shattered isn't for everyone.. You guys are making great arguments for keeping portals out of Prime.

[Methais]

Really? Some of us bought into shattered for reasons other than being able to be out of genre. I thought you were a smart guy.

Have you looked around the game lately, both at the players and the GMs?

I think it's safe to say without having numbers to back it up that more people signed up for Shattered to goof off and whatnot than people who signed up to play Prime with afk scripting allowed.

[Fallen]

Basically this. Shattered isn't for everyone.. You guys are making great arguments for keeping portals out of Prime.

This is how I feel about the issue too. All of their points are valid ... for prime. Shattered should be about convenience, not preservation and isolation.

[pabstblueribbon]

Have you looked around the game lately, both at the players and the GMs?

I think it's safe to say without having numbers to back it up that more people signed up for Shattered to goof off and whatnot than people who signed up to play Prime with afk scripting allowed.

http://www.meikathon.net/roflmao/facepalm.jpg

Where do you hang out in game again? Oh right. Your perception might be a bit skewed.

Either way, I expected the players to act this way, but I am very disappointed in the GM's encouraging it and altering the landscape.

Before all the fucktards came to Lich and when Shattered was announced, the majority of us were quite interested in the scripting, little GM involvement, and being able to forge our own world. There was much more to it other than being able to afk script. I could afk script my ass off in prime if I wanted to, honestly.

But as I've stated before: We will never agree, our version of the game are not the same. Portals would be a GREAT idea if you want what you want, but its a shit idea for what I would want. Either way, its in the hands of Simu and they're going to do what THEY want anyways.

[Senglent]

Ehh I don't have a movie/show/book/internet saying/etc. character. And honestly I don't plan on it.

I do find it funny in moderation, I like shattered cause I can run my scripts and level while I'm at work/fishing/out with the wife/whatever. I can also work my scripts so that if I chose to watch them in Prime I can do so.

But honestly if thats your arguements (Genre/RP/Prime-Plat like shit) for no portals you all need to rethink wich instance you want to play.

[Anebriated]

Personally, Id love to see portals in Prime and until we can have them nobody can! Thats all.

[pabstblueribbon]

Ehh I don't have a movie/show/book/internet saying/etc. character. And honestly I don't plan on it.

I do find it funny in moderation, I like shattered cause I can run my scripts and level while I'm at work/fishing/out with the wife/whatever. I can also work my scripts so that if I chose to watch them in Prime I can do so.

But honestly if thats your arguements (Genre/RP/Prime-Plat like shit) for no portals you all need to rethink wich instance you want to play.

Why the fuck can you fucking idiots not understand that the instance advertised to us did not include GM's altering things into anus bags? Its what happened, and it evolved sure.

I want to play in this instance because I want less babysitting by the GM's. Why I play it and why you play it DO NOT HAVE TO BE THE FUCKING SAME JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

oh yeah bringing the caps..

Anyways, a more appropriate poll would be:

Do you want shattered to be a /b/, psinet ooc chat, the internets, interactive chat room?

Or.

Do you want shattered to be like prime, but less rules, less gms, and where the players can forge the world/laws/whatever?

[Fallen]

Why the fuck can you fucking idiots not understand that the instance advertised to us did not include GM's altering things into anus bags? Its what happened, and it evolved sure.

I want to play in this instance because I want less babysitting by the GM's. Why I play it and why you play it DO NOT HAVE TO BE THE FUCKING SAME JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

oh yeah bringing the caps..

Anyways, a more appropriate poll would be:

Do you want shattered to be a /b/, psinet ooc chat, the internets, interactive chat room?

Or.

Do you want shattered to be like prime, but less rules, less gms, and where the players can forge the world/laws/whatever?

Are you saying someone named Slut walking around fucking everything that moves would be instantly tolerable if she didn't have a tight pink pussy alter? Props and alters may help these characters, but they most certainly would exist without them.

[AestheticDeath]

This is how I feel about the issue too. All of their points are valid ... for prime. Shattered should be about convenience, not preservation and isolation.

I suppose it would come down to that. I think portals would make it much easier and convenient to harass a particular target. If that convenience is what matters, then by all means bring on the portals. But I would think some people would prefer to run their scripts and level, which means they should have some small level of the preservation and isolation.

If you knew it takes 30 boring minutes to go from the landing to EN, just to kill someone, before you run back to your hunting grounds to continue your AFK script hunting are you going to take the time to do that? Or are you going to run to TSC and gank some random people to get your jollies off right quick and then go back to your own thing?

Perhaps that is how some of you see it. Why would you want to hunt Teras, when there is no one to PK when you come home? Oh gosh now I gotta wait X amount of long time to go find someone to kill.

[pabstblueribbon]

I realize that. Names are easier to ignore to me though. And I'd probably try to kill her. But thats just me.

[Liagala]

Why the fuck can you fucking idiots not understand that the instance advertised to us did not include GM's altering things into anus bags? Its what happened, and it evolved sure.
When did anything official ever say that Shattered would be Prime without GMs? All the advertising said it would be without GM moderation. It did however, advertise freedom of expression.

[Fallen]

I realize that. Names are easier to ignore to me though. And I'd probably try to kill her. But thats just me.

Look at characters like Briar's Necen. He is going to be one of the few that actively try to RP, and his character wouldn't be half as cool without all his feature/item alters. Having no GMs is a double-edged sword. You don't NEED that crap to RP, but fuck, I see it as one of the perks of Shattered that you can get all these sweet titles/features/etc from the GMs to RP something you really couldn't in prime.

[Senglent]

Hey PBR I'm playing Shattered more like you are so take it easy there cowboy. I just don't take offense as easy I guess.

Or think Portals would hinder my game play. I actually like portals, thats probably my favorite thing about Plat.

If you think people don't have asshat annoying characters in Plat you obviously never played or didn't play for very long.

[pabstblueribbon]

For fucks sakes. I give up.

Its pretty clear a lot of you just want a interactive chatroom with no regard to underlying gameplay, so, I'm saving my breath.

[Monotonous]

What exactly did you think "no policy enforcement" meant? That they'd enforce the policies you wanted them to, just 'cause?

Not being able to turn "a heavy backpack" into "a giant vagina" is a Prime policy. No enforcement means.... no enforcement. I paid $5 for a chance to wear a satchel crafted from hundreds of rectums. You paid for AFK scripting and less GM involvement. We both got what we wanted, so who can complain?

[SanGreal]

Basically this. Shattered isn't for everyone..

But I'm not the one trying to change Shattered... I'm having a lot of fun as it is.

[Methais]

I want to play in this instance because I want less babysitting by the GM's. Why I play it and why you play it DO NOT HAVE TO BE THE FUCKING SAME JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

What are you wanting to do in Shattered that you can't do in Prime due to GM babysitting?


For fucks sakes. I give up.

Its pretty clear a lot of you just want a interactive chatroom with no regard to underlying gameplay, so, I'm saving my breath.

That's like saying it's pretty clear that you want a single player instance of Gemstone in your little isolated corner of the world where nobody can potentially bother you with no regard to player interaction.

[pabstblueribbon]

Thats not what I'm saying at all, but I'm not at all surprised that you interpreted it that way.

[Methais]

Thats not what I'm saying at all, but I'm not at all surprised that you interpreted it that way.

Wanting an interactive chatroom with no regard to underlying gameplay isn't what we're saying at all, but I'm not at all surprised that you interpreted it that way.

See what I did there?

[TheEschaton]

I actually agree with Methais on this one.

I don't know how you could have possibly expected Shattered to be some place where you can "forge your own laws" or whatever, they never advertised it as "Prime starting over, with scripting", which seems to be what you want. I'd love a pure RP environment too, but that actually cannot happen without GM moderation to sort out the asshats. PBR, your attitude reminds me of when Ta'Vaalor opened up. A few people like SKATEMOM and her boy toy tried to take it over and make it an RP haven and got all butt hurt when people actually wanted to hunt the bog and not give two shits about Ta'V's militia or whatever. The game you want needs to be strictly enforced, and that simply isn't Shattered.

[pabstblueribbon]

I actually agree with Methais on this one.

I don't know how you could have possibly expected Shattered to be some place where you can "forge your own laws" or whatever, they never advertised it as "Prime starting over, with scripting", which seems to be what you want. I'd love a pure RP environment too, but that actually cannot happen without GM moderation to sort out the asshats. PBR, your attitude reminds me of when Ta'Vaalor opened up. A few people like SKATEMOM and her boy toy tried to take it over and make it an RP haven and got all butt hurt when people actually wanted to hunt the bog and not give two shits about Ta'V's militia or whatever. The game you want needs to be strictly enforced, and that simply isn't Shattered.

Uh no. The game I want is ran by the players. It doesn't need to be enforced by Simu at all. I'm sure it will all calm down after a few months. The players will do all the enforcing.

I don't expect anyone to act or do anything specifically, I just don't want portals because of reasons that I and Sangreal have stated. You simply can't understand them because what you want shattered to be is different than how we see it, and thats that.

[Methais]

Uh no. The game I want is ran by the players. It doesn't need to be enforced by Simu at all. I'm sure it will all calm down after a few months. The players will do all the enforcing.

I don't expect anyone to act or do anything specifically, I just don't want portals because of reasons that I and Sangreal have stated. You simply can't understand them because what you want shattered to be is different than how we see it, and thats that.

For the record, portals in Prime would rock the house too even though it'll never happen there.

[radamanthys]

For the record, portals in Prime would rock the house too even though it'll never happen there.

That'd be like putting a teleporter between LA and NYC. It'd only result in violence.

[Ashliana]

I mostly agree with Methais. The ever-dwindling population is a huge, increasingly important problem in Gemstone, whether Prime or Shattered.

Entire skills are going to have to be redesigned or scrapped, or they'll simply go unused. Things like pickpocketing was always somewhat of an afterthought, but basing viability on how many people are in the room seems short-sighted considering populated areas are fewer and farther between and that'll only get worse over time.

People will have to deal with fewer (or no) service classes being around at any given time. It's already that bad in the tower in the landing on Prime. No pickers, pretty much anytime. Hope you have a picker alt or someone on the amunet/Lich is nice enough to care. And have fun leveling that non-hunting empath with "all the foot traffic coming through," with a single master empath already on duty.

The world has gotten bigger, and more difficult to travel (requiring scripts, climbing, perception, swimming, etc) while the population has gotten drastically smaller and increasingly reliant on movement scripts. Breaking the shortcut between RR and the Landing was one of the worst decisions they ever made, considering how hard they tried, for so long, to get people out of the landing. Portals wouldn't so much "add a lot" to the game as they would remove a lot of the bullshit tedium that isn't fun, and people are encouraged/forced to rely on scripts to make up for.

[Fallen]

My problem with portals in prime from purely a mechanical sense is it invalidates a lot of code. Chronomages, a large part of 740, the Cutter mechanics to River's Rest, the Glasen Star, etc. There are roleplay and community arguments for/against portals, but they can go either way. That being said, they have said pretty recently that they are not considering adding portals to prime. I don't see them doing so in the next 3-5 years, but I could be wrong.

In Shattered? Bring them on. You want to hide from griefers? Cast 204.

[CrystalTears]

I find it interesting that Plat is fine with portals when from a roleplaying standpoint it wouldn't work, and they handle it without problems. For some reason it wouldn't work in an OOG environment like Shattered?

How much grieving are you getting now that you feel that portals will make it worse?

[pabstblueribbon]

I find it interesting that Plat is fine with portals when from a roleplaying standpoint it wouldn't work, and they handle it without problems. For some reason it wouldn't work in an OOG environment like Shattered?

How much grieving are you getting now that you feel that portals will make it worse?

I'm not receiving any at all. Nor do I expect any. But I have the ability to see in the future, all magic like. Its crazy, I know.

Did I mention it's not the only issue I have with it? I think I might have mentioned that. A few times.

[CrystalTears]

It's basically your main argument, that and dealing with asshats and such. I'm really not sure what you were expecting from a free-for-all version of GS. You can make of it what you want, and if you're in an area with people being OOG/OOC, just slip into a portal and leave.

I suppose I just don't find your arguments against it stronger than the arguments for it.

[thecapm]

the time I played it took me like 3 hours to take a mule from one city to another.

You have to ride an ass to get around in DR?

[Drunken Durfin]

How many of those people in Shattered are unique people? Also, how many are actually at the keyboard?

1) I am pretty damn unique.
2) I played 4 in prime...only playing 3 in Shattered
3) I am actually at my keyboard during the day. Overnight, not so much.

edit: Durfin against Portals

[Methais]

That would actually work right now, we could slip in a portal and leave, but before too much longer people are going to have cross-realm locate, and the portals would indeed make it one big grief-fest.

You mean just like how people said Shattered was going to be a nonstop grief fest from day one, where nobody would be able to do anything because everyone would either be griefing or being griefed 24/7/365, and then pretty much the opposite happened when it came out?

[Liagala]

You mean just like how people said Shattered was going to be a nonstop grief fest from day one, where nobody would be able to do anything because everyone would either be griefing or being griefed 24/7/365, and then pretty much the opposite happened when it came out?
No, they realized they were wrong in that. They forgot to account for all the people afk-scripting to cap. Once some people cap, THEN no one will be able to do anything because everyone will either be griefing or being griefed 24/7/365.

Once some people hit cap and the situation settles down to about what it is now, I'm sure some other excuse will pop up so everyone can say, "Oh, THAT'S why there's no grief-fest in there yet. As soon as X happens though, that place is going to fall apart!"

[Methais]

No, they realized they were wrong in that. They forgot to account for all the people afk-scripting to cap. Once some people cap, THEN no one will be able to do anything because everyone will either be griefing or being griefed 24/7/365.

Once some people hit cap and the situation settles down to about what it is now, I'm sure some other excuse will pop up so everyone can say, "Oh, THAT'S why there's no grief-fest in there yet. As soon as X happens though, that place is going to fall apart!"

it's like Reefer Madness, but for text.

[pabstblueribbon]

Your inability to forsee problems with this is troubling. If either of you had been involved with game dev instead of just playing you might understand.

[AnticorRifling]

They disagree talk down to them. I say put them in, then if they cause a shit storm you story line the fuckers out.

[RichardCranium]

Your inability to forsee problems with this is troubling. If either of you had been involved with game dev instead of just playing you might understand.

How's the view up there?

[CrystalTears]

Your inability to forsee problems with this is troubling. If either of you had been involved with game dev instead of just playing you might understand.


How's the view up there?
No kidding.

http://wackyiraqi.com/wtf/high_horse.jpg
GET OFF IT!

[Methais]

Your inability to forsee problems with this is troubling. If either of you had been involved with game dev instead of just playing you might understand.

Your inability to forsee problems with pointless barriers to divide a population that has become way too small for its game is troubling.

[IorakeWarhammer]

why do portals when you can just script to another town in a minute?

with the exception of EN.. Teras... damn.. i guess you guys are right, portals would be cool

but whats stopping some wizard from just meteor swarming every town within 10 minutes?

[RichardCranium]

Because scripting portals is better.

[AnticorRifling]

why do portals when you can just script to another town in a minute?

with the exception of EN.. Teras... damn.. i guess you guys are right, portals would be cool

but whats stopping some wizard from just meteor swarming every town within 10 minutes? ... The other players that would kill him. Why the fuck are you still posting shouldn't you be off drinking paint?

[Liagala]

why do portals when you can just script to another town in a minute?

with the exception of EN.. Teras... damn.. i guess you guys are right, portals would be cool

but whats stopping some wizard from just meteor swarming every town within 10 minutes?
15 warriors and rogues that will cman killpure him into oblivion every time he logs in for the next 3 weeks?

Everyone keeps seeing the "OMG, there's no rules, they can do this horrible thing!" side of the story, and no one wants to realize "OMG, there's no rules, we can gang up and make them regret it!" One on one, they can grief. 15 on one, they can't do anything but smile prettily while they bend over that barrel.

[IorakeWarhammer]

15 warriors and rogues that will cman killpure him into oblivion every time he logs in for the next 3 weeks?

Everyone keeps seeing the "OMG, there's no rules, they can do this horrible thing!" side of the story, and no one wants to realize "OMG, there's no rules, we can gang up and make them regret it!" One on one, they can grief. 15 on one, they can't do anything but smile prettily while they bend over that barrel.

exactly :)

[Methais]

Just out of curiosity, who here that voted in this poll actually plays Shattered?

[Drinin]

Just out of curiosity, who here that voted in this poll actually plays Shattered?

Yo.

[Senglent]

Some of them tried it for a day or three, some of them never tried it, and some play.

I think it's about 70% of the votes total actually play/played. I been wrong before though so who knows.

You shouldn't have to ask me if I play or not. You already know that answer.

[RichardCranium]

I've never played; I voted YES.

[thecapm]

I played, am playing, and will play until cap. I voted yes; the italicized yes.

[CrystalTears]

I've been commenting BECAUSE I'M AN OPINIONATED BITCH but I didn't vote because I don't play. However some people need to STFU because I just might want to. Sounds like a lot of fun minus the bitching.

[CrystalTears]

Heh, you'd be wrong. It is a lot of fun with about 15 times the bitching, only now you can cuss while you bitch! It really is a big whinefest for the most part. But yeah, still fun.
And that's the thing, is that the pressure to be completely IC is pretty much gone, and there were times that I wanted to yell WHAT THE FUCK and didn't. But there I would.

It's not something I can play now but maybe later on I may think about it.

[Inspire]

And that's the thing, is that the pressure to be completely IC is pretty much gone, and there were times that I wanted to yell WHAT THE FUCK and didn't. But there I would.

It's not something I can play now but maybe later on I may think about it.


LOL -- It's fun!

If they added portals, it would be every good thing about GS wrapped up in one nice $19.95 package.


I will say though, I have never felt so comfortable in GS in all my life. I would script in Prime and the pressure of having to watch the screen for every little thing because some GM may send you a plain text message to test you ....

All of that is gone, it's just fun, relaxing, GS!

[CrystalTears]

Honestly it's having to deal with people like you that turns me off.