Apple topples Microsoft's throne

[Clove]

Apple topples Microsoft's throne

By Blake Ellis, staff reporter
May 27, 2010: 8:20 AM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Microsoft's dominance as the tech industry's most valuable player has ended.

On Wednesday, Apple's market capitalization edged past its longtime rival's as investors made official what consumers have long suggested: Microsoft is no longer the industry's alpha dog.

Just last month, Microsoft's market cap exceeded Apple's by about $25 billion, but now Apple is in the lead by nearly $3 billion.

Microsoft's consumer products business is struggling to compete as Apple's hot new items like iPad and iPhone capture the attention of customers.

Microsoft (MSFT, Fortune 500) fell 4% to close at $25.01 on Wednesday, while Apple (AAPL, Fortune 500) lost 0.45%, closing at $244.11.

Shares of Microsoft have dipped more than 15% in the past couple weeks, while Apple's stock is down just over 6%, despite recent market volatility.

"What this really means is that Wall Street has more confidence in Apple's growth prospects than it does in Microsoft's growth prospects," said Matt Rosoff, lead analyst at Directions on Microsoft, an independent firm.

"Apple is showing high growth, with the launch of its iPad and its new iPhone coming out, and while Windows is a great competitor versus the Mac, Microsoft just hasn't come up with new areas of growth."

Microsoft's reputation as a market leader took another hit Tuesday when the company announced that it plans to shake up its management structure.

Amid the shuffle, Robbie Bach, who was in charge of years-long effort to turn Microsoft into more of a threat to Apple by heading the entertainment and devices group and overseeing innovative consumer products like Xbox and Zune, will retire from Microsoft in the fall.

"This just means those efforts didn't work out," said Roger Kay, president of analyst firm Endpoint Technologies. "It's sort of like Japanese samurai ethic, which says you need to fall on your sword to maintain your honor."

Toe the line or keep up with the Joneses?
Part of Microsoft's problem is that, instead of finding its own audience, it has fallen into a game of catch-up and is focusing too much energy on finding products to directly rival Apple's, said Kay.

"I don't know if they have to compete," he said. "What seems to be working for Microsoft is its serious applications for businesses, education institutions and other enterprises, and if they stay focused on their commercial business that gives them a lot."

While Microsoft's first quarter earnings were boosted by the success of its new operating system, Windows 7, Apple's record profit and revenue in the first quarter was driven by iPhone sales.

And many of Microsoft's efforts to branch out have been met with little success. For example, the company's Zune music player, meant to rival the iPod, has failed to create the same buzz as Apple's device, with sales dropping significantly in 2009.

Microsoft even looked into creating a tablet computer that would have competed directly with the iPad, which Apple introduced at the beginning of April, selling more than 1 million in the first 28 days of release. But Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer ended up pulling the plug on the project before the tablet ever made it to market.

"Zune hasn't gone anywhere, their tablet is dead, their phones are having trouble establishing a market position -- but consumers still use Office and Windows," said Kay.

Other experts say that Microsoft shouldn't stop at its core business, and that it simply needs to innovate more -- and faster -- in order to stay competitive.

"They have to continue to try to find other businesses, otherwise growth is always going to be bound by the PC market," said Rosoff.

Until Microsoft develops a clear direction and finds new ways to innovate, Apple will continue to push ahead, he said.

"Wall Street believes in Apple because Apple continues to put out new products that capture the imaginations of the press and tech pundits," said Rosoff. "Microsoft just hasn't been able to come up with a new multi billion dollar business like Apple."
http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/26/technology/apple_microsoft/
For decades I've been listening to predictions that Apple would inevitably fail. What now?

[TheEschaton]

Now....


now Microsoft gets to make commercials calling Apple Big Brother.

[Nilandia]

Now....


now Microsoft gets to make commercials calling Apple Big Brother.
:lol:

Point to you, TheE. I love that commercial.

Gretchen

[Asrial]

If it wasn't for Microsoft.. Apple would have gone out of business long ago.

Not to mention.. Apple works because it's NOT top dog.

[Clove]

If it wasn't for Microsoft.. Apple would have gone out of business long ago.Wild speculation.


Not to mention.. Apple works because it's NOT top dog.Makes no sense.

[AnticorRifling]

Oh the title says topples, way less interesting than Topless like I thought...

[Celephais]

Dailytech had the same over-sensationalized new article aggregated, but with a "yeah we just wanted you to click the link with this title" retration at the end:

Updated: May 27, 2010 11:15 a.m. --
Some commenters raised some excellent points about the nature of this victory for Apple, which were worth appending here. First, as some point out, market cap is only one indication of size. A better indicator perhaps is net operating income, which is a measure of a firm's profitability that excludes interest and income tax expenses. Microsoft currently has almost twice ($20.363B USD) the net operating income of Apple ($11.74B USD).

IBM also has more operating income. IBM ($17.012B USD) also has more operating income the Apple. Google ($8.312B USD) and HP ($10.136B USD) both come close to Apple's operating income as well.

However, the picture is slightly more complex than that. As mentioned, Apple holds virtual monopolies in four key markets. HP arguably does not hold enough marketshare to constitute a monopoly, despite making massive earnings in the PC sector. Google (internet search, internet advertising) and IBM (servers, supercomputing) both do hold virtual monopolies in a couple of critical sectors. And Microsoft obviously holds numerous effective monopolies (operating system, browser software, office software).

Ultimately, it's highly subjective and open to debate to say any of these companies is "the biggest".

Also, it should be noted that today Microsoft's stock significantly rebounded and its market cap is now at $230.25B USD versus Apple's $227.94B USD. Thus Apple's reign as the biggest market cap tech company in the world was as brief as we guessed. However, it's unlikely to be the last time we see Apple in this position.

Those comments aside, it is important to recognize Apple's transformation from a failing firm into a superpower. This event -- if merely a market blip -- provided the perfect opportunity to do so.

[Clove]

Yes the article is talking about EBITDA on the income statement. This is Earnings Before Interest Taxes Depreciation and Amortization.

It should be noted that you can actually be profitable at this line and ultimately take a loss on your bottom line. It's also not an accurate indication of your cash position. Journalists/=Accountants.

[zhelas]

If it wasn't for Microsoft.. Apple would have gone out of business long ago.

Speculation?

Could be.

But in 1997 MS made a $150 mil investment in Apple. It could have been a political move to prevent Apple from filing a lawsuit against MS.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/cyberspace/july-dec97/apple_8-6a.html


STEVE JOBS, Co-Founder, Apple Computer: The era of setting this up as a competition between Apple and Microsoft is over, as far as I'm concerned. This is about getting Apple healthy, and this is about Apple being able to make incredibly great contributions to the industry to get healthy and prosper again.



While Microsoft has seen its profits soar, Apple has been struggling, particularly since Steve Jobs left Apple to found a new company. For years, Apple has engaged Microsoft in legal battles, accusing it of stealing aspects of its operating system. And though a core of computer users remain loyal to the latest Apple products, the company's overall market share has dropped dramatically. Today only 3 percent of computers sold are made by Apple.

The above quotes are from that article. Times have changed

Peace

[Asrial]

ROFL! Yeah right.I'll respond to this by responding to Clove...

WILD SPECULATION: It's not wild speculation that Microsoft has sunk a large amount of money into Apple when Apple needed it most.

MAKES NO SENSE: You really think Apple's business model wouldn't get slammed by the government if they were the 800 lb gorilla?

.

Who can make iPhones?

Who can make iPads?

Who can build Macs?

Hell...

You can't even remove the battery in a laptop anymore without having to take it to the Apple store.

.

Unzip the Apple fanboy costumes and look at the big picture.

For the record.. Apple makes some great products and software (although the DRM shit pisses me off).

[Bobmuhthol]

I own no Apple products and I own more (and better) technology than most people, so...

[iJin]

:heart: I'm an Apple :heart:

[Clove]

I'll respond to this by responding to Clove...

WILD SPECULATION: It's not wild speculation that Microsoft has sunk a large amount of money into Apple when Apple needed it most.And you think the settlement was altruistic? Who's the fan boy now?


MAKES NO SENSE: You really think Apple's business model wouldn't get slammed by the government if they were the 800 lb gorilla?

.

Who can make iPhones?

Who can make iPads?Oh I get it now. So it's not enough to have an effective monopoly on operating systems, web browsers and business software... the US is waiting for Microsoft to corner the market on iPods. Genius.

[Clove]

Speculation my ass. Microsoft bailed out Apple..... FACT... Steve Jobs needed to come back. With Microsoft's investment along with Steve Jobs drive for Apple it survived.Ah, more fan-boys. Yes Microsoft made a cash settlement with Apple. No Apple was not going belly up.

[Parkbandit]

I own no Apple products and I own more (and better) technology than most people, so...

Huh?

I own multiple Apple products and I own far more (and better) technology than you.

So, that proves exactly what again?

[kookiegod]

Funny enough....

Just after this was reported, another article came out about the "new" 800# gorilla (though after yesterdays trading, their market capitalizations were about equal).

(CNET) -- Investigators for the Department of Justice began asking questions about Apple's business practices involving digital music at least three weeks ago, multiple music industry sources told CNET.

DOJ investigators have interviewed numerous executives at record companies and digital music stores and according to those with knowledge of the discussions, it is clear that investigators are interested in learning whether Apple has employed anticompetitive tactics.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/biztech/05/27/cnet.itunes.apple/index.html

Sometimes being #2 isn't a bad place to be....heh!

[Bobmuhthol]

Huh?

I own multiple Apple products and I own far more (and better) technology than you.

So, that proves exactly what again?

Right because you know what I own. My point was that it's retarded to say something like "everything everyone ever does involves an Apple product! Phones and laptops wouldn't even exist anymore!!!"

[Celephais]

I own no Apple products and I own more (and better) technology than most people, so...

I can't think of a single apple product I want. I would easily recommend apple products to my parents though.

There are apple products that are "better" technology than I currently own, but I've found that my needs are either basic to the point of not wanting to pay the premium for little benefit an apple product would provide (I didn't own an MP3 player until I won a free zune, I just played MP3s off my phone), or I want more benefit/development access (I had a windows mobile phone, and I was easily able to develop apps for it, and my next phone will be a droid, as wm7 looks awful).

iPad looks terrible, if I wanted an e-reader I'd get a kindle, if I wanted a portable tablet, I'd wait for the windows or android offering so I could actually do what I wanted with it. iTunes, I'd rather buy from amazon, because there's no way I'm installing iTunes on my computer.

Other than marketing obviously, from a technical perspective Apple does do form factor extremely well, packaging their products (I don't mean the boxes), they fit a lot into a small product. Although lately they've had overheating issues, it's still admirable how compact they can make a product without losing usability.

[Clove]

Right because you know what I own. My point was that it's retarded to say something like "everything everyone ever does involves an Apple product! Phones and laptops wouldn't even exist anymore!!!"Who the hell said that? Nevermind. I forgot. You don't quote.

[Bobmuhthol]

Dude you have tried to best me 3 times in the last week complaining about how I don't quote, and the one time I have even attempted to quote someone was my last post where I used the quote function. Shut the fuck up.

Besides, if you weren't a total fucking moron you'd look at the post directly before mine to see what I was addressing.

[AnticorRifling]

Right because you know what I own. My point was that it's retarded to say something like "everything everyone ever does involves an Apple product! Phones and laptops wouldn't even exist anymore!!!"

Holy shit you used quote!!!!

[Celephais]

I think he's refering to the:

"everything everyone ever does involves an Apple product! Phones and laptops wouldn't even exist anymore!!!"
Which was not in the quote you quoted.

If you were pre-emptively addressing the statement ... carry on.

[Parkbandit]

If you were pre-emptively addressing the statement ... carry on.

:rofl:

[Bobmuhthol]

I know what he was referring to. It's not what I quoted because I quoted PB after my initial post, which was a response to the post before it. My standards of competence must be way too high because I thought people would understand if I responded to the last post without having to quote it, since, you know, it's right there.

[Celephais]

I'll respond to this by responding to Clove...

WILD SPECULATION: It's not wild speculation that Microsoft has sunk a large amount of money into Apple when Apple needed it most.

MAKES NO SENSE: You really think Apple's business model wouldn't get slammed by the government if they were the 800 lb gorilla?

.

Who can make iPhones?

Who can make iPads?

Who can build Macs?

Hell...

You can't even remove the battery in a laptop anymore without having to take it to the Apple store.

.

Unzip the Apple fanboy costumes and look at the big picture.

For the record.. Apple makes some great products and software (although the DRM shit pisses me off).


I know what he was referring to. It's not what I quoted because I quoted PB after my initial post, which was a response to the post before it. My standards of competence must be way too high because I thought people would understand if I responded to the last post without having to quote it, since, you know, it's right there.

Hmm.. yeah I'm looking, he didn't say laptops wouldn't exist without apple. I wouldn't even say you're exaggerating what he said.

Edit to add: if you're referring to "You can't even remove the battery in a laptop anymore without having to take it to the Apple store." then his standard of competence is way too high for assuming you could figure out he meant the battery in an Apple laptop.

[Bobmuhthol]

If he meant the battery in an Apple laptop (that is, "regardless of how many Apple laptops there are, Apple laptops are serviced by Apple!") then he didn't make a point at all. I retract everything I have said under the assumption that he was trying to say something meaningful.

[Asrial]

If he meant the battery in an Apple laptop (that is, "regardless of how many Apple laptops there are, Apple laptops are serviced by Apple!") then he didn't make a point at all. I retract everything I have said under the assumption that he was trying to say something meaningful.Of course I meant the battery of an Apple laptop.

..and of course you can get Apple products serviced by people other than Apple.

The point was that Apple's crackdown is reaching the level that the average consumer can't remove the battery in their laptop. The additional point to this is that, as a result, anytime you do want to remove the battery in your laptop, Apple is going to tell you to go to the Apple store (where you can be pitched more Apple products and/or charged for the service of removing your battery).

The reason Apple gets away with this is because they're competition to Microsoft and having competition is how Microsoft is kept in check.

[Celephais]

If he meant the battery in an Apple laptop (that is, "regardless of how many Apple laptops there are, Apple laptops are serviced by Apple!") then he didn't make a point at all. I retract everything I have said under the assumption that he was trying to say something meaningful.

So your ability to comprehend what he said, regardless of how meaningful it was, utterly failed? Just checking.

Of the two assumptions you had to make to get to your response:
A) he meant it's impossible to remove a battery from any laptop, even non-apple laptops, without going to apple
B) he wasn't saying anything meaningful
you went with A?

[Bobmuhthol]

A is a gross misstatement. More accurately, I thought he meant that Apple laptops are so prevalent that they dominate the market.

[Celephais]

Not to mention.. Apple works because it's NOT top dog.


A is a gross misstatement. More accurately, I thought he meant that Apple laptops are so prevalent that they dominate the market.

So because he didn't quote himself, and he assumed people would have read his initial posts and get the context that he was posting in, you thought that his comments about how Apple doesn't dominate the market actually meant that Apple does dominate the market?

[Bobmuhthol]

Your idea of context makes no sense because Apple unquestionably dominates the personal media player market. How can it do that if it's not top dog?!?!?!

What next?

[Celephais]

A is a gross misstatement. More accurately, I thought he meant that Apple laptops are so prevalent that they dominate the market.


Your idea of context makes no sense because Apple unquestionably dominates the personal media player market. How can it do that if it's not top dog?!?!?!

What next?
So now you're bringing personal media players into the discussion. This isn't a political thread, you don't have to backpedal to protect your precious position. You're defending your misinterpretation of his meaning, then calling other people stupid for not being able to comprehend your meaning out of context, when all the context for his meaning was available to you in the thread.

Misinterpretation is a pretty common flaw of the media we're using here, that's why things like quoting exists, to string context along properly. If your initial post actually quoted what he said we could have realized you were trying to address a point that wasn't being made, instead it seemed like a non-sequitur, an attempt to bash Apple products as inferior while at the same time bragging about your technological product consumption.

ETA: I agree w/ you that Apple dominates personal media, and if you want to bring up a conversation about how they continue to employ practices that previously were only allowed because of their market position, that would be quite valid. It's a peculiarity to me that they haven't been charged as a monopoly in that space.

[Bobmuhthol]

I used a different example to invalidate your claim, but that means I'm backpedalling? What the fuck?

[Celephais]

I used a different example to invalidate your claim, but that means I'm backpedalling? What the fuck?

Do you still stand by your claim you "thought he meant that Apple laptops are so prevalent that they dominate the market."

[Bobmuhthol]

Yes.

[Celephais]

Yes.

So I'll stick with that .. seems pretty obvious if you had read his posts in this thread that he was referring to apple's practice of closing down a product and creating product based mini-monopolies, like the inability of an average consumer to simply order a generic battery online and replace the one in their apple laptop (I'm not even sure that's the case with all of them, but I was able to figure out that's what he was getting at). The reason Apple has historically been able to get away with this is that it's not the "800lb Gorilla" that "it's NOT top dog". That has been Apple's MO for some time.

How you read any of that to be that he felt that Apple did dominate the laptop market is pretty absurd.

I won't disagree with you that they don't have a virtual-monopoly on personal media players. Different market though.

The second thing we're bickering back and forth like hens about is your inability to quote. You are aware that people post things in threads without replying to people? If you read his post, and then yours, I wouldn't expect any reasonable person (see what I did there TheE?) to make the connection. His post was all over the place, bringing up many different topics. Your post simply stated that you have some cool shit, and it's not apple with a nice little non-committal "so..." at the end. If you had quoted at least people could be expected to figure out you were trying to make a point, but there'd be questions about what that was.

[Bobmuhthol]

Conceded.

[Clove]

The reason Apple gets away with this is because they're competition to Microsoft and having competition is how Microsoft is kept in check.Microsoft makes laptops? Incidentally the Dell Adamo laptop has a non-user replaceable battery too. I bet the only way Dell can get away with it is because they're competition to Apple, huh. Or maybe they get away with it because... IT'S NOT FUCKING ILLEGAL!

[Asrial]

"You are so fucking retarded." -- Anon.. I mean Clove Rep

.

Give it a rest already. The thread died a few days ago

[Clove]

"You are so fucking retarded." -- Anon.. I mean Clove RepBTW Starwind's a boy.

[Asrial]

I'm not saying this to feign ignorance to defeat a snappy comeback..

I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

[Clove]

You've demonstrated you lack a clue already. I'm just sayin'. Starwind's a boy.

[Asrial]

You've demonstrated you lack a clue already.Let's see...

You attacked my original post by anonymously repping me over it.

You come back, a couple of days later when the thread had died, and anonymously rep me again (to which I was more direct calling you on it this time).

..and now the thread has degenerated into you attacking my stance on the original post.. with personal attacks on me.

I think the two people who give a damn about this thread will be far more interested in your instability than my lack of a clue ;)

Just sayin'.

:popcorn:

[Clove]

Let's see...

You attacked my original post by anonymously repping me over it.Oh noes, Asrial got anonymous rep! Apparently that really pisses you off. Let's see how many people admit to giving you anonymous rep? While we're waiting are you going to explain why non-user replaceable batteries in their electronics is such a sin of Apple's when other manufactures also install non-user replaceable batteries? I'm sorry. You I'm afraid you don't have an argument. Oh and Starwind is a boy.

[Asrial]

Let's see how many people admit to giving you anonymous rep?Yeah, because it's a coincidence that I got one the same exact moment of your reply to my first post.

..and it's also a coincidence I got another one for my followup post on the same exact moment you replied to a several day old thread.

Someone must obviously be stalking you and trying to get you in trouble!

As for the battery issue.. the point was to show Apple's crackdown (which is one of many). We aren't comparing Dell to Microsoft here. We're comparing Apple to Microsoft (which is a much better comparison anyways).

Using your terminology.. you're fucking retarded if you think Apple becoming the 800 lb gorilla is a good thing for them.

[EDIT: I did a search here and I get the Starwind thing now, lol. We were friends before Martaigne (her brother) became owner.]

[Clove]

Yeah, because it's a coincidence that I got one the same exact moment of your reply to my first post.

..and it's also a coincidence I got another one for my followup post on the same exact moment you replied to a several day old thread.Blah blah blah. Since it would be impossible for me to reply to a post AND rep you at "the same exact moment" I actually think that's evidence AGAINST your paranoid delusions. But whatever you need to tell yourself to keep your esteem intact. I'm sure nobody but me would call you retarded.


As for the battery issue.. the point was to show Apple's crackdown (which is one of many). We aren't comparing Dell to Microsoft here. We're comparing Apple to Microsoft (which is a much better comparison anyways).Yes, but you have no point. To observe that Apple engages practices that other manufacturers are regularly engage in hardly points to some excessive "crack-down". I'm sorry to tell you it's business as usual paranoid boy.


Using your terminology.. you're fucking retarded if you think Apple becoming the 800 lb gorilla is a good thing for them.I think you're retarded if you think the way to succeed means not being very competitive or *gasp* even the most competitive. Apple certainly isn't the 800lb gorilla you imagine them becoming and if they were they'd have to out-do Microsoft significantly; apart from Europe very little has been done to address their monopolistic behavior in the US, why would they start with Apple?


[EDIT: I did a search here and I get the Starwind thing now, lol. We were friends before Martaigne (her brother) became owner.]Oh! Thanks for explaining...

[CrystalTears]

[EDIT: I did a search here and I get the Starwind thing now, lol. We were friends before Martaigne (her brother) became owner.]
:rofl: :lol: :rofl:

[CrystalTears]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif Apple topples... (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?p=1113297#post1113297) 06-02-2010 04:34 PM You should explain the joke because I sure as hell don't get it. -- Asrial
Starwind has only had one owner. A guy. But you tell yourself whatever makes you sleep at night. :D

[Asrial]

Oh! Thanks for explaining...Sure thing :)

[Asrial]

Starwind has only had one owner. A guy. But you tell yourself whatever makes you sleep at night. :DThat explains why they kept kicking my ass when we played Unreal together!

[Celephais]

Entertaining demo fail ... especially the crowd reaction and the eventual solution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHk3wYrkk7U
(Plenty of blue screen MS demos, this one was just funny rather than funny sad)

And just to piss off Anticor:
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/894614536_nnBGS-L.jpg

[AnticorRifling]

Mother fucker I can't see either of those here.

[Clove]

Entertaining demo fail ... especially the crowd reaction and the eventual solution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHk3wYrkk7U
(Plenty of blue screen MS demos, this one was just funny rather than funny sad)

And just to piss off Anticor:
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/894614536_nnBGS-L.jpgThat was hilarious. Someone yelled out "Verizon"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704312104575299111189853840.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection


FBI Opens Probe of iPad Breach
By SPENCER E. ANTE And BEN WORTHEN
The Federal Bureau of Investigation has opened an investigation into a possible security breach of AT&T Inc.'s website that exposed the email addresses of some owners of Apple Inc. iPad devices.

A security hole in AT&T's website exposed iPad users' email addresses, a breach that highlights how corporations still have problems protecting private information. Spencer Ante & Julia Angwin discuss. "The FBI is aware of these possible computer intrusions and has opened an investigation," said Katherine Schweit, an FBI spokeswoman. Ms. Schweit said the FBI began the investigation Thursday but wouldn't comment on what the bureau is looking at. "It's very early in the investigation," she added.

The incident this week was embarrassing to both AT&T and Apple. AT&T declined to comment on the investigation. On Wednesday, the wireless carrier acknowledged that a flaw in its website made it possible for iPad users' email addresses to be revealed. AT&T said it fixed the security problem by Tuesday.

Apple hasn't replied to requests for comment.

A small group of computer experts that calls itself Goatse Security said it discovered the flaw, explaining that it was able to find the email addresses by guessing numbers that identify iPads connected to AT&T's mobile network.

The group said it uncovered 114,000 email addresses, including those of prominent officials in companies, politics and the military.

Escher Auernheimer, a member of the group, said the group hasn't heard from law enforcement and that it didn't do anything illegal.

Jennifer Granick, civil liberties director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act generally prohibits unauthorized access to computers. The question is whether typing information into a public website is unauthorized, she said.

Experience WSJ professional Editors' Deep Dive: Data Breaches Fuel Policy DebateWARREN'S WASHINGTON INTERNET DAILY
Worries on Google Could Prompt Unified Privacy Approach
.Broadcasting & Cable
Privacy Groups Call for Tougher House Bill
.Computerworld
Cloud Security: Oxymoron?. Access thousands of business sources not available on the free web. Learn More .Also, prosecutors will consider what individuals do with the data they obtain before deciding whether to bring charges.

"If you do something fraudulent with the data then its much more likely that they will charge you," Ms. Granick said.

The incident is the latest complication in an already fraught relationship between Apple and AT&T. The companies teamed up to launch the iPhone and have benefitted enormously from the device. But users' complaints about spotty service and dropped calls on AT&T's network led to tension with Apple, which also selected AT&T as the exclusive iPad carrier in the U.S.

AT&T said it "has been in close contact with Apple" over the incident. The carrier is still in the process of determining how many email addresses were revealed and is preparing to notify customers who may have been compromised.

"We are making sure the list is in order," an AT&T spokesman said.

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg's email address was among those released. "It shouldn't be pretty hard to figure out my email address," the mayor said Thursday. "To me, it wasn't that big a deal."

The group that found the flaw contacted several news outlets before ultimately sharing its findings with blog publisher Gawker Media, which publicized it on Wednesday.

.Mr. Auernheimer said the group waited until AT&T had fixed the flaw before sharing the information. He said he went to the media with news of the breach in order to notify the public of the security flaw.

Mr. Auernheimer blamed AT&T for an "egregious lack of thought" in not requiring a password to access the pages with the email addresses.

Ed Amoroso, chief security officer at AT&T, said Wednesday the company was trying to make it easier for customers to sign up for cellular service by having their email address automatically appear in a registration field.

"If we could have done it over, we would not have pre-populated," he said.

Mr. Auernheimer said he hasn't been contacted by either AT&T or Apple, but has received several emails calling him a criminal since the disclosure, even though he said his group didn't break into AT&T's site but rather figured out how to view information that AT&T had made public. "I'm here doing a public service," he said.

Mr. Auernheimer, who goes by the online name "Weev," last year took credit in an interview with The Wall Street Journal for triggering a change on Amazon.com Inc.'s website that temporarily caused gay-themed books to disappear from the retail site's sales rankings. Amazon blamed the removal of the books on an internal glitch.

Write to Ben Worthen at ben.worthen@wsj.com

And yes, I know. Simpson's Did It. http://gravity.dnsprotect.com/~gsplayer/forum/showthread.php?t=53173

But it belongs in the Apple Rules thread!

[Asrial]

Apple topples... 06-11-2010 06:37 AM Feel better mother fucker? - Clove

.

lol

People obsess way too easily.