No strike... but we get a raw deal.

[Betheny]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37495-2004Mar30.html

So basically, any new employees get screwed, whether we join the union (to the tune of 10 bucks a week) or not.

I don't know about you, but there's really zero incentive for me to join it, expecially now that they've basically said, "We only give a shit about people who have wasted their lives working at a grocery store as an hourly employee."

I can't wait til Target opens. I'm so there.

[Skirmisher]

Yeesh, nice plan, screw the new guys.

I worked in a grocery store while i school and also had to join the union and pay dues for crap.

The union in grocery stores is only any good for the full time employees. Part timers HAVE to pay and get jack.

[DeV]

I feel you on that one Maimara, my friend is going through a similiar situation where she's works as a CNA. You are required to join the union, and they take something like $40.00 out of every check. The last raise was 2 years ago, and they are presently going to be giving raises to the tune of 10 cents.

I couldnt get the link to go through without registering (im too lazy to do). What are they offering in your union?

[peam]

Target is the devil. You'll go there, and you'll make a better wage than you would at a grocery store, but you'll bust your ass to get it.

[Myshel]

Beth, you said in another post you wanted to make friends in your new area. I have an idea for you that ties in with wanting a new job. Have you ever tried being a server? You have some great restaurants in your area and the money is great in a good restaurant. Being a server has changed in the last few years, where quality places (corporation chains), are training servers as a career. A lot of people have the idea that being a server is kissing the customers asses and taking crap, but I tell my servers you aren't working for me, your working for the customers and that being a server is a acting job. You put on a smile and make their meal enjoyable, you make great tips. My servers make over a $100 bucks a day. Lots of young people to meet and customers too. I know working retail you take a lot of crap from people too. Just a thought for you.

Edited to add, my daughter who always refused to get into serving and worked some crappy jobs, started working for us when we bought the restaurant. She drives 50 miles (she is in college north of us), 3 days a week to work for us. She makes $400. a week in those 3 days. Even though she isn't a people person, she has learned to "act" like she is. She loves the money in her pocket when she leaves.

[Edited on 4-1-2004 by Myshel]

[Betheny]

Virginia is a right to work state, so I'm not required to jo in the union, thus I have not done so. I thought for a while that I might, but now I really am not going to.

And... I already work my ass off when I go to work. Schlepping people's groceries around, bagging it for them, etc for 7.35 an hour is pretty on par for working for target (which starts out at 8 bucks an hour).

As for serving, it's a decent idea, but not something I'd really be willing to pursue. Ideally, I'd like to get into an admin assistant/receptionist job, I'm well suited for it with good people skills and phone skills, but it's tough around here.

[Soulpieced]

Sad but true, you'd make a HELL of a lot more being a waitress than working any type of hourly wage thing (Target, grocery store, etc.) unless it was an office job.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Maimara
Ideally, I'd like to get into an admin assistant/receptionist job, I'm well suited for it with good people skills and phone skills, but it's tough around here.

My mom owns an employment agency in Alexandria, I'll see if she has any openings out near leesburg. She focuses mainly on the receptionist/admin and does temporary & permanent.

She's how I found this bomb-diggity job. Just waiting for her to kick the bucket so the company will be mine. MINE! <evil cackles>

[Soulpieced]

ON a side note, you should try to find a temp agency in your area (Manpower, etc.) because they usually have good secretarial jobs ~ 13 bucks an hour.

[Betheny]

I worked through Manpower, they gave me a retail job at Nordstrom's Rack in Dulles Town Center, and it sucked a lot. If I hadn't found t his job with Giant I probably would have gone back to Nordstrom's, but only because of money. I really, really hated working there.


They called me wanting me to work a temp job at a country club, but there's no way I could have taken the time off from Giant in time to do it. And that's all I've ever heard from them. Pathetic, isn't it?

The thing that stinks about temp agencies (for me, at this point anyway) is that I don't have a car. So I need something on the bus line (along Highway 7) or within walking distance, or with hours that coincide with my boyfriend's, etc. I fully intend to purchase a cheap ass vehicle as soon as I get the money, but like I said, it ain't easy when you're working 16 hours a week (wooh, bumped up to 20 last week). A second job would be good but my schedule is unpredictable and I have no idea how I would be able to work out two work schedules.

[Atlanteax]

In this day and age, Unions, especially those like the UAW, are doing more harm than good to the US economy.

Most Union workers seem overall lazy, and don't want to compete against some new employees that are working harder for less pay... and avoid doing so under the guise of job security via the Union.

Unions in the Industrial Age = :thumbsup:
Went a long way towards worker safety, standardizing the work week, well-being of employees, etc...

Unions now... :thumbsdown:
Now basically predominantly inflate labor costs, and prevents hiring of new employees.

[Parkbandit]

Unions had their place about 60 years ago when there were no government regulations about the workplace. They brought about many changes and really showed the American people that working conditions should and could be better.

Today though, unions are nothing more than an additional expense to any good or service. They offer nothing for the employee and only offer barricades to the employer. They force themselves into workplaces through intimidation and 'good ol boys' networking.

[Parkbandit]

Bah... Atlanteax beat me to it.

I hate Atlanteax.. discuss.

[peam]

I disagree. There are places where unions have their merits, and there are work environments that could benefit from unionization.

/coughwalmartcough

[AnticorRifling]

While I don't like what unions have done towards non-union employees getting their feet in the door I do think that have some advantages. I don't think the generalization/stereotype that union workers are all lazy is a just assumption though.

I've worked beside several union affiliates and they all do their work well, but they have to follow a thick rulebook of what I consider to be asinine rules.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

How would a union at Walmart benefit the environment there?

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by peam
I disagree. There are places where unions have their merits, and there are work environments that could benefit from unionization.

/coughwalmartcough

Walmart is awfully successful for a non-Union company.

They seem to preach an instituation of cooperation between management and employees where ideas for process improvement more easily bubble to the top as opposed to elsewhere.

Just how could Walmart benefit from being Unionized?

The only thing I can think of is that wages may be a bit low, but that is how Walmart keeps it prices low (and employees employed). Walmart also seems to be consistently hiring.

It is my opinion that a lot of companies could learn from Walmart.

.

However, there is one great evil thing about Walmart.

Its relationships with suppliers. As part of the strategy in keeping prices down, they mercilessly squeeze out additional profit margins from the suppliers each year. For example supplier A has to reduce costs by 3% a year.

The problem is that supplier A is dependent on Walmart to stay in business, and cannot afford to look elsewhere for clientale to replace Walmart (especially as Walmart just keeps on growing in size). So sometimes supplier A has to fire a few employees to meet Walmart's cost reduction demands.

Once you got supplier A, and B, and C, and .... all cutting costs by minor layoffs, it compounds throughout the economy where less money is being spent on good/services.

.

So the debate about Walmart being an model company, or a high successful but evil company continues...

[Mint]

A union is just an organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer. An organization of workers created for the purposes of securing higher wages, improved working conditions, greater benefits etc., from an employer. Why is this a bad thing? If a particular union is weak in these areas it is the employees that are to blame as they are the ones that must vote for the union representatives that negotiate with the employer. They are also the ones that vote on contract approval.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I personally liked Ronald Reagan's dealing with the flight controlers union :)

[Wezas]

My problem with unions is when I hear that people in the unions get 1% raises while other people in the same company/division who are non-union get 5+%

[peam]

A unionization of WalMart's workforce would lead to a living wage. Say what you will, but no family can survive on the bread-winner making between $6.25 and $8.00 an hour.

Second, a union may put an end to WalMart's fucked up treatment of employees. At the store I worked at, a large number of people were hired in October as regular employees, and a second batch was hired in late November as holiday help, with understanding that the second batch of employees would be temporary.

After said holidays, a majority of the first batch of employees were let go, and the second batch of employees were kept on another month and a half longer than originally intended, before being let go. Benefits? Who wants to pay those.

Hmmm.. another fun WalMart policy.. If you happen to go over 40 hours a week, thus earning overtime pay, you're STRONGLY pressured by management to 'donate' the money back to the store. I can't remember the exact name of the charity you were giving to, but I've a friend who was released not two weeks after he refused to give his overtime pay away.

It's easy to find examples of WalMart fucking their employees good and hard. A lot of these employees are young and starting out, and don't know how they should be treated in a work environment. They can present an admirable public face all they want. The company certainly has the funds to do so, but I've experienced a weeeee taste of what actually happens behind the scenes.

[Mint]

Originally posted by Wezas
My problem with unions is when I hear that people in the unions get 1% raises while other people in the same company/division who are non-union get 5+%

Goes back to the contract. My union has set wage steps per contract. You are at top wage within four years but continue to get cost of living increases. So after four years per my contract I make 22.60/hour plus as much overtime as I can handle and full benefits. More than adequete for my needs. Yes, I am pro union in case there was any doubt.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

All Walmarts are like that? How do they get anyone to work there?

[peam]

Have you seen the people who work at WalMart?

Most are either teens, elderly, or people with little to no job skills. The latter group is the most likely to fall into the cycle of mistreatment, as they're the ones working because they have a family to support.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

So people with little to no job skills should be paid more than min wage?

[peam]

Originally posted by Mint

Originally posted by Wezas
My problem with unions is when I hear that people in the unions get 1% raises while other people in the same company/division who are non-union get 5+%

Goes back to the contract. My union has set wage steps per contract. You are at top wage within four years but continue to get cost of living increases. So after four years per my contract I make 22.60/hour plus as much overtime as I can handle and full benefits. More than adequete for my needs. Yes, I am pro union in case there was any doubt.

Jesus. That's some serious loot. If I quit school, can I come drive a bus with you?

[peam]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
So people with little to no job skills should be paid more than min wage?


No, they should be paid a living wage.

[Edited on 4-1-2004 by peam]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Mint
A union is just an organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer. An organization of workers created for the purposes of securing higher wages, improved working conditions, greater benefits etc., from an employer. Why is this a bad thing?It's not a bad thing for the employees, it eventually hurts everyone though. You getting more money means the employer has to charge more for their product or service, which increases prices for everyone, which makes the union want more money for it's members, etc. etc.

I don't want unions to go away, but they should be a bit more altruistic (the same could be said for employers, obviously).

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by peam

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
So people with little to no job skills should be paid more than min wage?


No, they should be paid a living wage.

[Edited on 4-1-2004 by peam]

Why? You said yourself they have no job skills. Are we a socialist country now?

[Mint]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Mint
A union is just an organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer. An organization of workers created for the purposes of securing higher wages, improved working conditions, greater benefits etc., from an employer. Why is this a bad thing?It's not a bad thing for the employees, it eventually hurts everyone though. You getting more money means the employer has to charge more for their product or service, which increases prices for everyone, which makes the union want more money for it's members, etc. etc.

I don't want unions to go away, but they should be a bit more altruistic (the same could be said for employers, obviously).

Do you honestly believe that leaving wages and benefits up to employers wouldnt result in all of us making a barely liveable wage? I would rather not trust in the altruism of employers thank you very much.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Mint
Do you honestly believe that leaving wages and benefits up to employers wouldnt result in all of us making a barely liveable wage? I would rather not trust in the altruism of employers thank you very much.

I do, yes.

[peam]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage

Originally posted by peam

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
So people with little to no job skills should be paid more than min wage?


No, they should be paid a living wage.

[Edited on 4-1-2004 by peam]

Why? You said yourself they have no job skills. Are we a socialist country now?

Because I believe everyone in this country, who decided to work for something, has a right to live in reasonable comfort, as compared to breaking their back 40 hours a week, and coming home with a paycheck that lacks the ability to put food on the table and keep the house warm.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Mint
I would rather not trust in the altruism of employers thank you very much. Neither would I, thus "I don't want unions to go away". :?:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

So you are ok (once you graduate Radford) with a low skilled/unskilled laborer, making the same wage as you with your brand new college degree? Because they are entitled to it? What about someone who works two jobs? Or say, a rocket scientist, or a garbage man? Should they all make the same wage?

[Mint]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage

Originally posted by Mint
Do you honestly believe that leaving wages and benefits up to employers wouldnt result in all of us making a barely liveable wage? I would rather not trust in the altruism of employers thank you very much.

I do, yes.


Okay, here is an example: I work for a transit company with good union representation. One of our contractors does not have union representation and they start their drivers at 9 bucks an hour. We do the same work basically so why such a disparity? Because the wage was left up to the employer. Where would you apply to work?

Dont forget that employers that have union workers also sign the union contract (after much wrangling of course). They are not doing so blindly.

[peam]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
So you are ok (once you graduate Radford) with a low skilled/unskilled laborer, making the same wage as you with your brand new college degree? Because they are entitled to it? What about someone who works two jobs? Or say, a rocket scientist, or a garbage man? Should they all make the same wage?

No, they shouldn't. I'm not spouting that everyone should be paid an equal sum of money. I'm saying that even the unskilled laborers of America deserve a wage that provides them the ability to feed their family and pay their bills, not drive SUVs, shop at Saks, and hit up the day spa for a massage and manicure every week.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Maybe it's because the union rapes them so much that they cannot afford to pay non-union reps more? That all their money is tied up in union negotiations and kickbacks for stewards? Maybe the union has them by the balls and says if you pay more than X dollars an hour to non-union reps we'll strike?

I think there is a TON more to the story than something as simple as X and Y. I pose the question to you, why such a disparity?

Wouldn't the employer KNOW that everyone hired will go union once they figure out that you can make 2 1/2 times more as union? That's just stupid -- there is more than $9 vs $22 at stake here, for sure.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by peam
No, they shouldn't. I'm not spouting that everyone should be paid an equal sum of money. I'm saying that even the unskilled laborers of America deserve a wage that provides them the ability to feed their family and pay their bills, not drive SUVs, shop at Saks, and hit up the day spa for a massage and manicure every week.

I'm with you there, we agree on that. But what is "minimum acceptable wage" that allows everyone to have a home/family/food? I think thats were we disagree.

I'm ok with Walmart paying 7 an hour. How hard is it to scan something, stock a shelf? Certainly it is NOT enough to buy a house, new car, etc... maybe you work two jobs, maybe you have 3 roommates, maybe you work 2 jobs and go to college so you have skills and can get a 14 dollar an hour job. I dunno, but I disagree with the premise that Unions are the "fix" for poor people.

[HarmNone]

If corporations would accept their responsibility for providing a decent wage and decent working conditions for their employees, there would be no need for unions. There never would have been.

As long as our capitalist society places the most importance on the "bottom line", there will always be a need for someone to stand up for the "little guy". Not everyone can be a rocket scientist. Somebody has to pick up after those guys. ;)

We are all responsible, in some part, for each other. We are responsible for providing for those who cannot provide for themselves. That does not mean that we are responsible for those who CHOOSE not to provide for themselves, and I am not fool enough to believe that those types of people do not exist.

Pay a living wage to those who are willing to work for it. Make that wage responsive to rises in the cost of living. Keep in mind that the human being must have a reasonable amount of leisure time to replenish their stores of energy and inititative. If you have been blessed with the ability (whether intellectually or physically) to earn more than your neighbor, reach out a helping hand in his/her direction. If these things were done, unions would not have any power at all. They would be nonexistant.

HarmNone, if wishes were horses...

[Mint]

<<I think there is a TON more to the story than something as simple as X and Y. I pose the question to you, why such a disparity?>>

A high rate of membership is important in the union's ability to force contractual concessions from an employer. I work for a very large transit organization however the contracted services that my company use are small companies with minimal employees.


As for the rest of your post SHM, I don't know. What I do know is that thanks to my union I have a liveable wage and decent benefits.

[peam]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage

Originally posted by peam
No, they shouldn't. I'm not spouting that everyone should be paid an equal sum of money. I'm saying that even the unskilled laborers of America deserve a wage that provides them the ability to feed their family and pay their bills, not drive SUVs, shop at Saks, and hit up the day spa for a massage and manicure every week.

I'm with you there, we agree on that. But what is "minimum acceptable wage" that allows everyone to have a home/family/food? I think thats were we disagree.

I'm ok with Walmart paying 7 an hour. How hard is it to scan something, stock a shelf? Certainly it is NOT enough to buy a house, new car, etc... maybe you work two jobs, maybe you have 3 roommates, maybe you work 2 jobs and go to college so you have skills and can get a 14 dollar an hour job. I dunno, but I disagree with the premise that Unions are the "fix" for poor people.

I would think that a living wage would vary from place to place, as cost of living fluctuates. I've no idea what the pay rate would be, but I'm sure economist types could come up with a formula to determine a wage that enough people would agree on.

Not to say that an increase in pay would be enough to put everyone in a state where they could exist in moderate comfort. I'd be all for a government program that taught people how to budget because I'm sure that while some families could live off of $12 an hour, there would be individuals, living alone and without much financial responsibility, that couldn't manage to keep their bills paid on the same wage.

I don't think unions are an instant-fix, either, but I think in some places, especially WalMart, they could do justice in organizing the employees to demand a better working environment and benefits.

[Rowi]

I work Union..........lemme tell you what, If we didnt have it we wouldnt have squat for conditions.

[Betheny]

In Minnesota, a very pro-union state, I see unions as a good thing.

But seeing how it works here, it's kind of rediculous.

I'm not sure how to explain it, but I'll give it a go.

In Minnesota, if you get into a union shop, you've got it made. You make good money (Grocery clerks start at about 9 bucks an hour), good benefits after 90 or 120 days, guaranteed hours, etc.

But here in Virginia, the starting wage for a grocery clerk in a union shop is about 7 dollars an hour, and you're not guaranteed hours. I don't get benefits for fifteen months -- no dental until after 18. And I get the same rights and benefits as someone that pays the ten dollars a month, assuming we were hired around the same time.

So basically... the only way to get a good deal with a union here is to be in it for 6 years. It makes very little sense to me, seeing as how the cost of living here is at least three times what it is in Minnesota.

Here's the really rediculous thing: If you don't join the union, and you've got a legal right to NOT join it, you get coldshouldered and looked down upon at work. Not a big deal -- but the scheduling at my store is done by union-affiliated people. Meaning: Union people get more/better hours. I figured this out today, when I went in at 1:30 like the schedule said, only to find out I was scheduled at 3:30 instead.

The scheduling chick, who got fired a week or so ago, was from corporate and not union affiliated. I got better hours when she was around. Now, I'm working til 10:30 or 11:30 at night instead of 8 at the latest.

Second job's in the works, hopefully I'll be able to find a better 'first' job so I don't have to run myself ragged trying to save up some money.

Nuts.

[Edited on 4-1-2004 by Maimara]

[Betheny]

I think unions can be a real cop-out.

I think companies should take whatever money they spend on union negotiations and things of that nature and create better education benefits.

That'd be a benefit EVERYONE can enjoy.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Mint
A union is just an organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer. An organization of workers created for the purposes of securing higher wages, improved working conditions, greater benefits etc., from an employer. Why is this a bad thing?It's not a bad thing for the employees, it eventually hurts everyone though. You getting more money means the employer has to charge more for their product or service, which increases prices for everyone, which makes the union want more money for it's members, etc. etc.

I don't want unions to go away, but they should be a bit more altruistic (the same could be said for employers, obviously).

Well said. :)

[Soulpieced]

The simple (complex) solution is go to college and get a degree so you don't have to work in unskilled labor.

[Mint]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
The simple (complex) solution is go to college and get a degree so you don't have to work in unskilled labor.

So what youre saying is that 'unskilled' workers should live in poverty? Or are you saying that the world does not need bus drivers, and grocery store clerks, and construction workers etc?

[peam]

Yes, that's the obvious fix. :rolleyes:

[Soulpieced]

I meant if you want to earn an extraordinary salary moreso than an unskilled labor position, you should go to school so you have the opportunity to do so.

[HarmNone]

Not everyone is equipped for college, Soulpie. Even at the community college level, you see people struggling to attain something that is out of their grasp. There will always be those who are more capable than others when it comes to higher education. Not everyone is suited for it, and...like I said...somebody has to pick up after the rocket scientists. ;)

The trick is, in my mind, to recognize that those who do the picking up are no less important to a society than those who create, and to let them feel as much a part of that society as anyone else.

I am very thankful to the people in my organizations who are out "in the trenches". I try to show my appreciation in whatever way I can, whether by ensuring that their monetary needs are met, or being there when their emotional needs surface. If I am living in luxury while they struggle in poverty and want, there is something very wrong with my value system, as I see it.

HarmNone

[Mint]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
I meant if you want to earn an extraordinary salary moreso than an unskilled labor position, you should go to school so you have the opportunity to do so.

I don't know about you but I live in the real world where a college education is not always available to anyone that wants it.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Why isn't it available? In the 'real world" that I lived in when I went to college, I paid my way... graduated with no debt too. Of course, I had to work 3 jobs, but then, I wanted a degree.

[HarmNone]

Again I state, not all people can obtain a college degree. It is not only a monetary issue.

HarmNone

[Mint]

There are many, many instances of people who do have a college degree but are unable to work in their chosen fields utilizing that degree.

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Atlanteax
In this day and age, Unions, especially those like the UAW, are doing more harm than good to the US economy.


I think, as with all human organizations, over time they lose their focus and principles, but while I agree in sentiment I would never say they are doing more harm than good.

You can think a large organization of beuracrats does nothing, but this is a damn sight better than what a board room full of stock holders without any sort of opposing force will do. Just look at these examples from the people that worked at Walmart and really see whats going on. You think they are profitable so they must be doing something right, whereas the non-naive look knows something has to be wrong. Its really no big secret to a successful buisness, buy or sell your products cheaper than anyone else. In this case specifically the selling is cheaper because they have draconian practices with their workers who are paid close to dirt to begin with and then treated equally well.

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Wezas
My problem with unions is when I hear that people in the unions get 1% raises while other people in the same company/division who are non-union get 5+%

I wouldn't doubt this is the case because union workers wages are settled by contract, while non-union is based on how many jobs they have to fill and the employment market, if its tough to fill your job as compared to giving you a %5 increase in wages then you get the increase.

However, the main issue that you are overlooking is the base wage, without a doubt the non-union workers are paid less than the union workers.
And while union contracts are usually for a number of years at a time your increase is highly variable based on openings and the employment market also you can be fired much easier than a union worker.

In the current high unemployment market as an unskilled worker your are in a bind, I've heard from others (relatives and such) that are having hard times finding jobs, going places working the probation period and then sent packing. And there is nothing they can do cause they, put simply, are working for the man and have no power.

[Mint]

Originally posted by peam
[quote]
Jesus. That's some serious loot. If I quit school, can I come drive a bus with you?

That would be awesome. Maybe I'd even get to be your in service instructor since I just signed up for the training department. Heh. I would love bossing you around...:!:

[DeV]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
I meant if you want to earn an extraordinary salary moreso than an unskilled labor position, you should go to school so you have the opportunity to do so. Bill Gates would say otherwise. There are numerous other ways to obtain positions in this society that pay well, without going to college. Bottom line is college gives you a massive head start. Then again, it depends on your choice of career and major.

[Edaarin]

If you have the motivation, NOTHING should stop you from going to college. Absolutely nothing. Ask RangerD1 sometime to tell you the road he took to get an education, but remember to make him cut out all the sob stories and the part where he wore a tutu.

[Wezas]

I just calculated what I make per hour. I had two semesters at NoVa (Northern VA Community College). College works for some people, not for others. It is possible to make a good living without college, depending on what field you go in and your knowledge of it.

It's a bit rediculous how much I make per hour when you factor in how much I actually "work".

[HarmNone]

Unfortunately, that is just not true, Edaarin. There are people in my organization who could not achieve a college degree no matter what Herculean effort they might make. Yet, they offer a great deal to all of us. Why can we not appreciate that which is theirs to give?

HarmNone

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
The simple (complex) solution is go to college and get a degree so you don't have to work in unskilled labor.

Fund my education.

I have this job to do exactly that.

[Mint]

Originally posted by Edaarin
If you have the motivation, NOTHING should stop you from going to college. Absolutely nothing. Ask RangerD1 sometime to tell you the road he took to get an education, but remember to make him cut out all the sob stories and the part where he wore a tutu.

Once again, there are many people with degrees working in 'unskilled' labor. Assuming that the waitress that serves your meal does not have a degree or the pizza delivery person delivering your meal is uneducated is naive.

And tell us more about the tutu...

[Edaarin]

Ask him yourself, heh...

Anyway, I just skimmed over most of this thread. I'm fully aware that working unskilled labor doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have an education (I'm not going to make any ethnic jokes here, but I AM Vietnamese, and I DO live in Northern Virginia, and there are quite a few girls I know that work at nail salons around here...I'll leave it at that...).

Guess I should read it more closely before I comment, heh.

[Mint]

Originally posted by Edaarin

Guess I should read it more closely before I comment, heh.

LOL a mistake I often make so I can empathize.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm curious Mint, you are what, 23, 24? Young I know... you make a good wage. Are you going to drive a bus the rest of your life? I sincerely mean this non-insulting.

Betheny and I had a conversation the other day about what drives people. For instance, I'd say I lean towards materialistic. I like nice things. To get nice things, I went to college, got a good job, and make a great wage doing it. My best friend Marc, he's more concerned with family. He works for 12 an hour doing phone work, and has two kids and a wife and loves his life. We are both happy where we are, but obviously have different goals.

When I think (and I'm older than you at 33) about what I want to do for the rest of my life, I honestly can't say. I just know I want to make a lot of money, and be happy making that money. I LOVE the job I do now, and it pays well, so I'm VERY happy here. If you are happy driving a bus, and it pays what you want, would you do it forever?

[Rowi]

I make 27.36 an hour.........make almost 85k a year and didnt go to college.


ILWU for life...........work union...not only live better but longer!

[Mint]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
I'm curious Mint, you are what, 23, 24? Young I know... you make a good wage. Are you going to drive a bus the rest of your life? I sincerely mean this non-insulting.

Betheny and I had a conversation the other day about what drives people. For instance, I'd say I lean towards materialistic. I like nice things. To get nice things, I went to college, got a good job, and make a great wage doing it. My best friend Marc, he's more concerned with family. He works for 12 an hour doing phone work, and has two kids and a wife and loves his life. We are both happy where we are, but obviously have different goals.

When I think (and I'm older than you at 33) about what I want to do for the rest of my life, I honestly can't say. I just know I want to make a lot of money, and be happy making that money. I LOVE the job I do now, and it pays well, so I'm VERY happy here. If you are happy driving a bus, and it pays what you want, would you do it forever?

I really enjoy my job. Who knows how I will feel in ten years however. I certainly dont, but for right now I can say it is a job I truly love and yes, I would do it for less money if I had to so the money is not the deciding factor for me. But thankfully I make enough that it doesnt have to factor in. I consider myself extremely fortunate.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Amen to that. I think hands down the most important thing with any job, is do you like it.

[Hulkein]

Buy American,

Build Union.


This has been brought to you by Local 98.

Edited to add- Hah, how funny is it that the Philly Unions drove Real World out of here... I think Street gave out enough oral favors to get them back, but I thought it was hysterical.

[Edited on 4-1-2004 by Hulkein]

[Ardwen]

heh DO I defend Walmart or not, worked for them for more then 6 years now, without overtime I make enough to own a house and 2 cars, benefits start after a whopping 30 days her. Do you work your ass off to earn the money of course. I expect no less in a job the involves even a minimum ammount of physical labor. And Walmart is hardly the only comapny in the retail industry where the average store based employee doesnt earn enough to live on their own, locally Walmart stores pay more then the local fast food, convenienceand similarly to the other retail giant chains.

Was I foolish enough to take a job at a store, of course not, but how many entry level jobs can you name that a high school graduate can get that start at 15 or so an hour?

thats the range the center I work at starts at

Ardwen
Schlepper for Waltons

[Betheny]

I would have to say, I don't hate my job. I mildly dislike it at times, but mostly because I feel I can do a lot better for myself. I know I have great potential.

But I think if the job I'm in now were to offer me some kind of opportunnity to 'step up', say into managing or something, I might feel a little less dissatisfied with my station there.

However, I really don't intend to stay there.

I just think that recognition and advancement are really important in the workplace, and I think unions are really, really good to do that.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Fengus
However, the main issue that you are overlooking is the base wage, without a doubt the non-union workers are paid less than the union workers.

Not true, I make the same. Here, I think it's required by law. We get the same -everything-. Benefits, raises, etc. Supposedly, anyway. I haven't really looked into it a whole lot, because I'm kindo f resigned to the fact that it's just going to frustrate me. ;) That and nobody from the union wants to talk to me.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Amen to that. I think hands down the most important thing with any job, is do you like it.

Indeed.

Doing a job you hate makes you hate a lot of things. Having a job you like just makes everything ten times sweeter.

This is what drives me, I want a job I enjoy, and I'd like to make good money doing it, but that's kind of secondary to me.

It's just figuring out what I want to do that's not so easy, heh.

[Myshel]

As for serving, it's a decent idea, but not something I'd really be willing to pursue. Ideally, I'd like to get into an admin assistant/receptionist job, I'm well suited for it with good people skills and phone skills, but it's tough around here. [/quote]

When I was younger, my Mom wanted me to get a *real* job, as I had always worked in restaurants. So I got a job in a insurance office, 9-5, 5 days a week. It was so boring and the money sucked. So to supplement it, I started working on the weekends, at a restaurant serving. I quit the insurance office after a month, because I made more money three nights, and 15 hours at the restaurant than the 40 hours at the office. During the days I went to back to school.

[Betheny]

I don't think I could stand being a waitress.

I'd rather pick up another job at Coconuts than work as a waitress, heh. At least I'll get a discount then. :socool: