TWC for a rogue

[IorakeWarhammer]

question about two weapon combat for rogues. how does it work ambushing? what is the DS difference between having two weapons and having a weapon and a shield?

I use OHE. I was thinking of checking how TWC works and if its a viable option at near-cap levels. also, I wanted to know how it would work with say, 30 ranks of MSTRIKE.

and a third question would be how does it defend against disarm

~Deron

[SpiffyJr]

I'll answer all the questions that you can't answer with a two minute PC search.

.

Well, that didn't take long.

[DoctorUnne]

question about two weapon combat for rogues. how does it work ambushing? what is the DS difference between having two weapons and having a weapon and a shield?

I use OHE. I was thinking of checking how TWC works and if its a viable option at near-cap levels. also, I wanted to know how it would work with say, 30 ranks of MSTRIKE.

and a third question would be how does it defend against disarm

~Deron

It works perfectly fine ambushing and near cap. I am level 94 and have been TWC with ambushing and two axes my whole life. Most of the time you don't even need the second swing as your first swing kills the monster, but it's useful for the times you miss or get EBP'ed. Your DS will depend on how much you train in dodge vs. how much you trained in shield before. You get a shield penalty with dodge DS, so if you 3x in dodge your DS with TWC may actually be higher than your DS with a shield.

I would suggest at least 30 ranks of mstrike, but try to get more unless you need the points for lockpicking. I have 90 ranks (soon to be 100) and it's pretty ferocious.

Defending against disarm would be no different than using OHE/shield I would imagine. It depends on your disarm and CM ranks, not your fighting style.

[IorakeWarhammer]

| Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 262 162
Armor Use..........................| 210 110
Combat Maneuvers...................| 262 162
Edged Weapons......................| 262 162
Ambush.............................| 262 162
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 198 98
Dodging............................| 262 162
Stalking and Hiding................| 269 169
Perception.........................| 262 162
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Training Points: 0 Phy 8 Mnt (852 Mnt converted to Phy)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

360 days remain until the annual FIXSKILLS is to be granted, on 05/20/2011.

You started this migration period on Tuesday, 5/25/2010 at 08:41:38 EDT. You have 29 days, 23 hours, 46 minutes remaining in your current 30 day migration period.

You're currently migrating at a rate of .010 skill points per pulse, and have converted 0.300 training points this migration period.

Further information can be found in SKILL FAQS.
>inf
Name: Deron Race: Elf Profession: Rogue (shown as: Sapper)
Gender: Male Age: 598 Expr: 5398116 Level: 79
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 93 (21) ... 95 (22)
Constitution (CON): 97 (23) ... 97 (23)
Dexterity (DEX): 93 (26) ... 98 (29)
Agility (AGI): 89 (34) ... 94 (37)
Discipline (DIS): 97 (8) ... 97 (8)
Aura (AUR): 92 (26) ... 92 (26)
Logic (LOG): 94 (22) ... 94 (22)
Intuition (INT): 93 (21) ... 93 (21)
Wisdom (WIS): 97 (23) ... 97 (23)
Influence (INF): 82 (26) ... 82 (26)
Mana: 5 Silver: 291
>w
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.


the deal is done. I just hunted and it fucking owned.

[IorakeWarhammer]

the game just got about 10x more fun.

[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Loose dirt is piled along the edges of the floor, but the middle of the path is smooth and flat as if something heavy travels this direction quite often. A giant pockmark mars the earthen wall of this tunnel, but the faint light of the area refuses to reveal its contents. You also see a greater krynch and the Deron disk.
Obvious exits: north, northeast, southeast
>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>amb kry hea
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at a greater krynch!
AS: +465 vs DS: +227 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +88 = +347
... and hit for 68 points of damage!
Solid strike caves the greater krynch's skull in, resulting in instant death!
The greater krynch shudders, then topples to the ground.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>sea kry
You search the greater krynch.
It didn't carry any silver.
It had an uncut ruby on it!
It had nothing else of value.
Tiny fissures quickly spread over a dead greater krynch, and it crumbles into rubble.
>put kat in clo
You put a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana in your spidersilk cloak.
>get rub
You pick up an uncut ruby.
>put rub in clo
You put an uncut ruby in your spidersilk cloak.
>get kat
You remove a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana from in your spidersilk cloak.
>l
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Loose dirt is piled along the edges of the floor, but the middle of the path is smooth and flat as if something heavy travels this direction quite often. A giant pockmark mars the earthen wall of this tunnel, but the faint light of the area refuses to reveal its contents. You also see the Deron disk.
Obvious exits: north, northeast, southeast
>hid
Your injuries hinder your attempt to hide.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
>sneak n
In YOUR condition? You must be joking.
>unh
stance def
You do not believe anyone noticed you slip out of hiding.
>You are now in a defensive stance.
>ne
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
The rough-hewn dirt walls are irregular and uneven, clearly not man-made. The clay-like floor is a quagmire of mud and slop, which makes travel slow and messy. The tunnel is filled with ominous echoes, the sounds muffled and indeterminate in the darkness. You also see a greater krynch.
Obvious exits: southwest, northwest
>hid
Your injuries hinder your attempt to hide.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
>
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>stance off
...wait 2 seconds.
>
stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>amb kry r l
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at a greater krynch!
AS: +465 vs DS: +227 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +80 = +339
... and hit for 57 points of damage!
You ripped a chunk out of the greater krynch's right leg with that one.
You swing a graceful faenor crescent axe at a greater krynch!
AS: +425 vs DS: +222 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +39 = +265
... and hit for 60 points of damage!
Strong slash to the greater krynch's right leg!
Muscles exposed!
Not a pretty sight.
The greater krynch is knocked to the ground!
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>
A greater krynch lurches to its feet!
>cman sur
>
You focus deep within yourself, searching for untapped sources of strength.
You feel a great deal stronger.
>hid
Your injuries hinder your attempt to hide.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
>amb kry hea
...wait 1 seconds.
>
amb kry hea
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at a greater krynch!
AS: +481 vs DS: +206 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +54 = +350
... and hit for 74 points of damage!
Gruesome slash opens the greater krynch's forehead!
Grey matter spills forth!
The greater krynch shudders, then topples to the ground.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>sea kry
You search the greater krynch.
It had 635 silvers on it.
You gather the remaining 635 coins.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
It had nothing else of value.
Tiny fissures quickly spread over a dead greater krynch, and it crumbles into rubble.
>l
stance def
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
The rough-hewn dirt walls are irregular and uneven, clearly not man-made. The clay-like floor is a quagmire of mud and slop, which makes travel slow and messy. The tunnel is filled with ominous echoes, the sounds muffled and indeterminate in the darkness. You also see the Deron disk.
Obvious exits: southwest, northwest
>You are now in a defensive stance.
>nw
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Rivulets of brown murky water trickle down the slighty sloping floor, cutting tiny ruts into the soft muddy ground. The ceiling is covered with sickly grey mushrooms, all of them distorted and misshapen. You also see an earth elemental.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast, southwest
>
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>l
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Rivulets of brown murky water trickle down the slighty sloping floor, cutting tiny ruts into the soft muddy ground. The ceiling is covered with sickly grey mushrooms, all of them distorted and misshapen. You also see the Deron disk and an earth elemental.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast, southwest
>
An earth elemental pounds at you with its heavy earthen fists!
With no room to spare, you manage to parry the blow with your faenor crescent axe!

You barely manage to fend off the attack with your axe!
>l
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Rivulets of brown murky water trickle down the slighty sloping floor, cutting tiny ruts into the soft muddy ground. The ceiling is covered with sickly grey mushrooms, all of them distorted and misshapen. You also see the Deron disk and an earth elemental.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast, southwest
>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>mstr ele
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
You explode into a fury of strikes and ripostes, moving with a singular purpose and will!
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at an earth elemental!
AS: +481 vs DS: +117 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +53 = +438
... and hit for 57 points of damage!
Slash to the earth elemental's chest!
Breathe deep, it'll feel better in a minute.
You swing a graceful faenor crescent axe at an earth elemental!
AS: +432 vs DS: +117 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +23 = +361
... and hit for 54 points of damage!
Internal organs bruised.
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at an earth elemental!
AS: +481 vs DS: +109 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +86 = +479
... and hit for 67 points of damage!
Stomach ripped open by mighty blow!

** Your smoky glaes katana emits a searing bolt of lightning! **

... 10 points of damage!
Light shock to left arm. That stings!
You swing a graceful faenor crescent axe at an earth elemental!
AS: +432 vs DS: +109 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +50 = +396
... and hit for 64 points of damage!
Right leg mangled horribly.
The earth elemental is knocked to the ground!

Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>l
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Rivulets of brown murky water trickle down the slighty sloping floor, cutting tiny ruts into the soft muddy ground. The ceiling is covered with sickly grey mushrooms, all of them distorted and misshapen. You also see the Deron disk and an earth elemental that is lying down.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast, southwest
>stance def
...wait 2 seconds.
>stance def
>
An earth elemental struggles to rise but fails in the attempt.
>l
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Rivulets of brown murky water trickle down the slighty sloping floor, cutting tiny ruts into the soft muddy ground. The ceiling is covered with sickly grey mushrooms, all of them distorted and misshapen. You also see the Deron disk and an earth elemental that is lying down.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast, southwest
>
An earth elemental lumbers to its feet!
>hid
Your injuries hinder your attempt to hide.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>amb ele r l
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at an earth elemental!
AS: +481 vs DS: +79 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +81 = +504
... and hit for 80 points of damage!
Wild downward slash severs the earth elemental's right foot!
Bloody stump, anyone?
An earth elemental falls to the ground grasping its mangled right leg!
You swing a graceful faenor crescent axe at an earth elemental!
AS: +432 vs DS: -4 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +46 = +505
... and hit for 80 points of damage!
Quick, powerful slash to the earth elemental's left knee!
The earth elemental shudders violently for a moment, then goes still.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>

[SpiffyJr]

I love TWC but I don't think I could handle 8 second ambushes. I like to keep it around 5 seconds.

[IorakeWarhammer]

its only 8 seconds if you need the 2nd swing :)

but yeah i have decent redux so the 8 seconds isn't as bad. I was already ambushing at 6 seconds. so.. it's not a big difference to me. and also using vanish may help considerably..

[SpiffyJr]

An extra 3 seconds in this game is a LOOOONG time.

[Cap'nDrak]

the game just got about 10x more fun.

[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Loose dirt is piled along the edges of the floor, but the middle of the path is smooth and flat as if something heavy travels this direction quite often. A giant pockmark mars the earthen wall of this tunnel, but the faint light of the area refuses to reveal its contents. You also see a greater krynch and the Deron disk.
Obvious exits: north, northeast, southeast
>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>amb kry hea
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at a greater krynch!
AS: +465 vs DS: +227 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +88 = +347
... and hit for 68 points of damage!
Solid strike caves the greater krynch's skull in, resulting in instant death!
The greater krynch shudders, then topples to the ground.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>sea kry
You search the greater krynch.
It didn't carry any silver.
It had an uncut ruby on it!
It had nothing else of value.
Tiny fissures quickly spread over a dead greater krynch, and it crumbles into rubble.
>put kat in clo
You put a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana in your spidersilk cloak.
>get rub
You pick up an uncut ruby.
>put rub in clo
You put an uncut ruby in your spidersilk cloak.
>get kat
You remove a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana from in your spidersilk cloak.
>l
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Loose dirt is piled along the edges of the floor, but the middle of the path is smooth and flat as if something heavy travels this direction quite often. A giant pockmark mars the earthen wall of this tunnel, but the faint light of the area refuses to reveal its contents. You also see the Deron disk.
Obvious exits: north, northeast, southeast
>hid
Your injuries hinder your attempt to hide.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
>sneak n
In YOUR condition? You must be joking.
>unh
stance def
You do not believe anyone noticed you slip out of hiding.
>You are now in a defensive stance.
>ne
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
The rough-hewn dirt walls are irregular and uneven, clearly not man-made. The clay-like floor is a quagmire of mud and slop, which makes travel slow and messy. The tunnel is filled with ominous echoes, the sounds muffled and indeterminate in the darkness. You also see a greater krynch.
Obvious exits: southwest, northwest
>hid
Your injuries hinder your attempt to hide.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
>
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>stance off
...wait 2 seconds.
>
stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>amb kry r l
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at a greater krynch!
AS: +465 vs DS: +227 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +80 = +339
... and hit for 57 points of damage!
You ripped a chunk out of the greater krynch's right leg with that one.
You swing a graceful faenor crescent axe at a greater krynch!
AS: +425 vs DS: +222 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +39 = +265
... and hit for 60 points of damage!
Strong slash to the greater krynch's right leg!
Muscles exposed!
Not a pretty sight.
The greater krynch is knocked to the ground!
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>
A greater krynch lurches to its feet!
>cman sur
>
You focus deep within yourself, searching for untapped sources of strength.
You feel a great deal stronger.
>hid
Your injuries hinder your attempt to hide.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
>amb kry hea
...wait 1 seconds.
>
amb kry hea
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at a greater krynch!
AS: +481 vs DS: +206 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +54 = +350
... and hit for 74 points of damage!
Gruesome slash opens the greater krynch's forehead!
Grey matter spills forth!
The greater krynch shudders, then topples to the ground.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>sea kry
You search the greater krynch.
It had 635 silvers on it.
You gather the remaining 635 coins.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
It had nothing else of value.
Tiny fissures quickly spread over a dead greater krynch, and it crumbles into rubble.
>l
stance def
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
The rough-hewn dirt walls are irregular and uneven, clearly not man-made. The clay-like floor is a quagmire of mud and slop, which makes travel slow and messy. The tunnel is filled with ominous echoes, the sounds muffled and indeterminate in the darkness. You also see the Deron disk.
Obvious exits: southwest, northwest
>You are now in a defensive stance.
>nw
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Rivulets of brown murky water trickle down the slighty sloping floor, cutting tiny ruts into the soft muddy ground. The ceiling is covered with sickly grey mushrooms, all of them distorted and misshapen. You also see an earth elemental.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast, southwest
>
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>l
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Rivulets of brown murky water trickle down the slighty sloping floor, cutting tiny ruts into the soft muddy ground. The ceiling is covered with sickly grey mushrooms, all of them distorted and misshapen. You also see the Deron disk and an earth elemental.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast, southwest
>
An earth elemental pounds at you with its heavy earthen fists!
With no room to spare, you manage to parry the blow with your faenor crescent axe!

You barely manage to fend off the attack with your axe!
>l
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Rivulets of brown murky water trickle down the slighty sloping floor, cutting tiny ruts into the soft muddy ground. The ceiling is covered with sickly grey mushrooms, all of them distorted and misshapen. You also see the Deron disk and an earth elemental.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast, southwest
>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>mstr ele
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
You explode into a fury of strikes and ripostes, moving with a singular purpose and will!
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at an earth elemental!
AS: +481 vs DS: +117 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +53 = +438
... and hit for 57 points of damage!
Slash to the earth elemental's chest!
Breathe deep, it'll feel better in a minute.
You swing a graceful faenor crescent axe at an earth elemental!
AS: +432 vs DS: +117 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +23 = +361
... and hit for 54 points of damage!
Internal organs bruised.
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at an earth elemental!
AS: +481 vs DS: +109 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +86 = +479
... and hit for 67 points of damage!
Stomach ripped open by mighty blow!

** Your smoky glaes katana emits a searing bolt of lightning! **

... 10 points of damage!
Light shock to left arm. That stings!
You swing a graceful faenor crescent axe at an earth elemental!
AS: +432 vs DS: +109 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +50 = +396
... and hit for 64 points of damage!
Right leg mangled horribly.
The earth elemental is knocked to the ground!

Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>l
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Rivulets of brown murky water trickle down the slighty sloping floor, cutting tiny ruts into the soft muddy ground. The ceiling is covered with sickly grey mushrooms, all of them distorted and misshapen. You also see the Deron disk and an earth elemental that is lying down.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast, southwest
>stance def
...wait 2 seconds.
>stance def
>
An earth elemental struggles to rise but fails in the attempt.
>l
[Thanatoph Bowels, Tunnel]
Rivulets of brown murky water trickle down the slighty sloping floor, cutting tiny ruts into the soft muddy ground. The ceiling is covered with sickly grey mushrooms, all of them distorted and misshapen. You also see the Deron disk and an earth elemental that is lying down.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast, southwest
>
An earth elemental lumbers to its feet!
>hid
Your injuries hinder your attempt to hide.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>amb ele r l
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana at an earth elemental!
AS: +481 vs DS: +79 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +81 = +504
... and hit for 80 points of damage!
Wild downward slash severs the earth elemental's right foot!
Bloody stump, anyone?
An earth elemental falls to the ground grasping its mangled right leg!
You swing a graceful faenor crescent axe at an earth elemental!
AS: +432 vs DS: -4 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +46 = +505
... and hit for 80 points of damage!
Quick, powerful slash to the earth elemental's left knee!
The earth elemental shudders violently for a moment, then goes still.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>


I assume that katana is short sword based yes? If so then you really need to swap those weapons and put the axe in your right hand. Then you need to lighten them down to max. Also consider getting agidex enhansives to reduce that RT. My 50ish human rogue ambushes with a perfect handaxe and shortsword in 5 seconds.

[grossm]

>put kat in clo
You put a razor-sharp smoky glaes katana in your spidersilk cloak.

You might want to make sure that you put your expensive dollar-bought weapons "in MY clo."

Just saying.

Edit: On a side note, someone should go drop a bunch of pocketed cloaks in the bowels next time Deron is logged in. Just in case.

[IorakeWarhammer]

the katana is a falchion