Haha (Official Boards)

[Soulpieced]

There was a ginormous outlash against the price increase. Over 1400 posts in 2 or 3 days. I'm adding my 2 cents now, but I just thought I'd let you guys know that you on the PC are not the only unhappy ones.

[Miss X]

After reading it all I feel really sorry for the AoH, CS2 and MO players. They get a lot less than we do in GS/DR and they pay the same, total rip off.

Also, I noticed the Simu staff are avoiding commenting on that issue as much as possible. Pathetic! :no:

[Edited on 31-3-04 by Miss X]

[CrystalTears]

We're far from the only ones. If anything I'm seeing more complaints from people other than GS, like DR and the other smaller games. They seem more upset than the GS players, or least the vocal ones are anyway.

[DeV]

I was reading the complaints there yesterday and alot of people made sense. The Simu staff/moderators were/are definitely avoiding addressing any of the price increase complaints.

[Wezas]

Damn, a guy from CS2 has been toughing it out for a while. They'd always been the red-headed step child. No GMs and only one programmer (who left). So they've had no updates or bug fixes in a long ass time. And he said so many people have left that he's lucky if there's 5-10 people in the game at a time.

[Mistomeer]

Originally posted by Wezas
Damn, a guy from CS2 has been toughing it out for a while. They'd always been the red-headed step child. No GMs and only one programmer (who left). So they've had no updates or bug fixes in a long ass time. And he said so many people have left that he's lucky if there's 5-10 people in the game at a time.

Yeah, the CS2 people got the shaft, but if I'm signing on to GS every night and there's only 10 people, I'm not going to stick around for a few years and hope it gets better.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Wezas
Damn, a guy from CS2 has been toughing it out for a while. They'd always been the red-headed step child. No GMs and only one programmer (who left). So they've had no updates or bug fixes in a long ass time. And he said so many people have left that he's lucky if there's 5-10 people in the game at a time. Wow, that takes some kinda dedication to the game.

[longshot]

Originally posted by Mistomeer
[

Yeah, the CS2 people got the shaft, but if I'm signing on to GS every night and there's only 10 people, I'm not going to stick around for a few years and hope it gets better.

When I played after work from Japan, which would be about 4:00 AM EST in the U.S., there were around 200 people logged in. I would say there were never more than 10 who were not scripting.

I really like these boards, but Gemstone in any form is dead to me.

[Galleazzo]

1400 posts and maybe 1 in 10's saying they're downgrading or cancelling. Bet Simu's X+1 calculation's not working now, huh?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Galleazzo
1400 posts and maybe 1 in 10's saying they're downgrading or cancelling. Bet Simu's X+1 calculation's not working now, huh?

1400 basic subscribers... 1 in 10 cancel.

140 X $12.95 = $1,813 per month.

1260 remaining subscribers... 9 in 10 stay.

1260 X $2 = $2,520 per month.

They made an additional $707 per month.

I think their formula worked perfectly.

[Mistomeer]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Galleazzo
1400 posts and maybe 1 in 10's saying they're downgrading or cancelling. Bet Simu's X+1 calculation's not working now, huh?

1400 basic subscribers... 1 in 10 cancel.

140 X $12.95 = $1,813 per month.

1260 remaining subscribers... 9 in 10 stay.

1260 X $2 = $2,520 per month.

They made an additional $707 per month.

I think their formula worked perfectly.

That's assusming that of all that cancel they are all basic subscribers and all have 1 account they are cancelling.

[Hulkein]

You also have to take into account that the 1 person in 10 may have multiple accounts. I know from just reading various threads here some of the people who cancelled had three accounts or more.

[Edited on 3-31-2004 by Hulkein]

[Miss X]

Honestly, a lot of people will say they are gonna cancel, like everyone did with the GS3/4 thing but in reality most people won't. Simu knows this as well as we do, if they were worried about all the cancelations they wouldn't have hiked the price.

[Xcalibur]

People are peons, quitting is easy.

Just transfer your addiction from this game to something better (like sex or parties)

[SiKWiDiT]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
People are peons, quitting is easy.

Just transfer your addiction from this game to something better (like sex or parties)

Or sex parties.

[Galleazzo]

Besides which, Park, a lot of those 1400 posts are multiple posts by the same people. Then you have that most of the really pissed off people aren't Basic folk, they're Premium folk, and a lot of those people are either backing down to Basic or ditching. You're losing at least $24 a month from most of them.

[Parkbandit]

I was just making a point from the numbers you gave me. I could make the numbers fit whichever senario I am currently supporting.. since there are so many variables we would simply have to guess at.

I cancelled one of my accounts and am in the process of cancelling one more. I'll be left with 1 account with 3 characters.. saving (after the price hike) $29.90

They will still be getting $22.45 a month from me for now though.

[Galleazzo]

Yeah. We got no idea even of the player base. 2000? 5000? 10000?

[CrystalTears]

Of course you have to consider the people who are so upset that they didn't post or share their bitterness with the pricing decision and will quit completely (like perhaps my fiance).

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
We're far from the only ones. If anything I'm seeing more complaints from people other than GS, like DR and the other smaller games. They seem more upset than the GS players, or least the vocal ones are anyway.

GS'ers are used to getting raped, and GS'ers know it will not do a damn bit of good, thats why there are not as many GS posters.

Finiswolf

[Skirmisher]

Actually that bring a question to mind.

Does anyone have any idea as to which game gets the most support as in resources dedicated to it?

[Galleazzo]

Looked like a majority were GS actually. There's the one guy posting from Cyberstrike, one HX person plus Zephyra, and 2 from Modus not including that asshat pickpocket. A bunch from DR.

From the numbers on Tsoran's site, GS got about 20-25% more players than DR got.

[Artha]

Does anyone have any idea as to which game gets the most support as in resources dedicated to it?

It's either GS or DR, the others being more side projects than anything else. At a guess, I'd say GS.

[HarmNone]

I feel badly for those who are financially unable to sustain this raise in prices. GemStone does offer relatively cheap entertainment when viewed on a per-hour basis, if you play regularly.

That said, those who really cancel accounts will definitely impact the bottom line for Simu. Those who merely cut back will, in all likelihood, upgrade and add characters as the sting of the price-hike lessens. Those players will not hurt Simu. They will actually add to the coffers over time. In the end, Simu will realize a rise in revenues. What will be interesting will be to see what they do with it.

HarmNone, with her negligible little opinion :)

[Artha]

Anyone who can't handle a 2-7 dollar increase in prices probably shouldn't be playing GS anyway.

[Mistomeer]

Originally posted by Miss X
Honestly, a lot of people will say they are gonna cancel, like everyone did with the GS3/4 thing but in reality most people won't. Simu knows this as well as we do, if they were worried about all the cancelations they wouldn't have hiked the price.

Of course, it's entirely possible that all the people who did in fact cancel for GSIV are the reason that prices are going up. It stands to reason that their operating costs have not increased significantly so it's entirely possible that their revenue has decreased.

[Anebriated]

Anyone who can't handle a 2-7 dollar increase in prices probably shouldn't be playing GS anyway.

If I saw a reason for the increase in price then I would be happy to pay the extra 5 a month for my accounts as they are currently. The only thing i can think of for them to charge more is because it does take alot of resources to get the game back up after its daily crash. You(Simu) show me a game that doesnt crash as often, has less lag(its not my side no matter what simu says), has a CS department who actually tells people what the problem is when questioned(refer to izalude's post), releases things on time, and LISTENS to their consumers input then i will happily shell out the extra cash a month.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Elrodin

Anyone who can't handle a 2-7 dollar increase in prices probably shouldn't be playing GS anyway.

If I saw a reason for the increase in price then I would be happy to pay the extra 5 a month for my accounts as they are currently. The only thing i can think of for them to charge more is because it does take alot of resources to get the game back up after its daily crash. You(Simu) show me a game that doesnt crash as often, has less lag(its not my side no matter what simu says), has a CS department who actually tells people what the problem is when questioned(refer to izalude's post), releases things on time, and LISTENS to their consumers input then i will happily shell out the extra cash a month.

Well said, Elrodin.

-Melissa

[MrThorbizzle]

ancient thread, but since they've upped the price, can't they give basic subscriptions ONE extra character slot? Premiums get 15 now...there aren't even 15 professions! jeez

[CrystalTears]

Well Premium customers are paying $25 more than basic subscriptions. People have been asking for more reasons to make up for such a high amount, adding a few more character slots is a good start.

[MrThorbizzle]

yeh but how many characters you crazy premies making? 15 slots....15 slots! I know you don't need that many locker characters.

[Gan]

I wanna see premie members able to use frostacres as a travel medium in between towns so we can move about with ease.

[CrystalTears]

Yeah cause heaven forbid someone actually share their account with someone else and they each have 7 characters. :P

[SpunGirl]

I only have like, four characters on my premium account. Transferring items back and forth is such a pain in the ass that I won't do all locker characters until they allow one huge locker that all your characters can access at all times.

If that ever happens.

-K

[Blazing247]

Now that this thread has been revived from the dead, I wonder how raising the prices affected their bottom line. I know, for sure, they lost at least 2 premium accounts (mine).

[Pallon]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
I only have like, four characters on my premium account. Transferring items back and forth is such a pain in the ass that I won't do all locker characters until they allow one huge locker that all your characters can access at all times.

If that ever happens.

-K

Yeah, why isn't there any easy way to transfer items between characters on one account?

Oh, right, I'm supposed to buy a second account to do that :fu:

[Disrupture]

I'm not using both my accounts anymore either. I can't afford to keep them both running, at least not for awhile, so right now I'm just playing my cleric.

[Chelle]

They lost mine too. Though, very recently I made a lil char on my sisters acct. just to check things out. I just cant seem to get myself interested again. ho hum.

Didn't lose anything from me, then again, I've been basic for a while now. If you couldn't swing the price cost, well, then you seriously need to reconsider this as your hobby.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

Both my fiance and myself have cancelled our accounts. A few weeks ago I had created a basic account to try out a new character. After a couple of weeks I lost interest and cancelled again. It's just a little too late for them to try and goose me with stuff. Maybe next year I'll give it another go. :)

Oh and it wasn't because we couldn't afford it. We just weren't playing that much as it is, and we realized we could use the $80 we were spending a month for other things, like going to the movies 4 times, having a nice dinner, getting a few PS2 games, getting more PC games....

[Edited on 9/13/2004 by CrystalTears]

[Blazing247]

<Didn't lose anything from me, then again, I've been basic for a while now. If you couldn't swing the price cost, well, then you seriously need to reconsider this as your hobby. >

I could swing that around on you and say, "If you pay $80 a month for a reclusive internet hobby, well, then you seriously need to reconsider your life." But I won't, I'll just say that I can afford the cost increase, but choose not to pay that much for a stupid computer game.

[Sadnama]

Well they did lose a few accounts over the GS3/4 thing. I cancelled and havent been back and the same with my wife thats 60 a month they lost

[Soulpieced]

I just sell silvers for gifts of adventure. I don't plan on paying Simu another dollar for a long time.

[Artha]

They're still getting your money.

[Soulpieced]

I'm technically not "paying" anything directly to Simu. Especially considering I am selling fictional silvers to get the payment that someone is sending me.

[Artha]

It's money that you don't have, though.

[Soulpieced]

How is it money that I don't have if I am not spending any of my funds? The silvers I make are paid for by other people, and the only thing invested to making those silvers is leisure time. Your argument makes no sense.

[Edited on 9-26-2004 by Soulpieced]

[Artha]

If you were to sell the silvers on e-bay or something, you'd have $<insert GoA total here> in real life.

[Soulpieced]

But that would involve me using tangible money to pay them still. Thus I do not use any of MY money to play Gemstone. Simutronics makes no money out of my pockets, but other peoples'.

[Soulpieced]

Proven - Gemstone costs 15$ a month irregardeless of what you do.

Assume - Time played and money made is irrelevant during a month.

Assume - I make 1 million silvers in a month during free time, enough to buy a gift of adventure for 1 month from someone for 1 million silvers per 15$.

Proof: If I make 1 million silvers during a month and someone else purchases a 1 month Gift of Adventure to my account for those silvers, I am not paying any money to play Gemstone.

[Bobmuhthol]

Yes, you are, because you could have been spending the $15 on something else. Instead, you continue to play GemStone.

[Soulpieced]

Yes, you are, because you could have been spending the $15 on something else. Instead, you continue to play GemStone.

.

If I was not playing Gemstone, that 15 dollars would not exist because I could not have sold the silvers to someone for the money. Thus we're back at square 1. Which further proves I am not paying anything to play Gemstone. And if I was playing Gemstone and sold the silvers on ebay, I would end up having to pay a 15 dollar credit card bill to Simutronics which IS my own money. But that is not what I am doing. Simutronics makes $0 from the account Soulpieced because someone ELSE pays for my subscription due to selling of silvers.

[Edited on 9-26-2004 by Soulpieced]

[Artha]

It's like quantum physics.

[Bobmuhthol]

You definitely are paying to play. You're looking too far ahead, which ends up being valid, but the final result neither proves or disproves the money you pay. To play GemStone until you get 1,000,000 silver, and then sell that silver for $15, and then pay that same $15 to continue to play, you have not made any monetary sacrifice when it's all over. That does not, however, mean that you aren't paying. You get billed, you sell silver to make up for it. You still get billed. Had you not played GemStone, you'd have $15 to spend. By playing GemStone, you make the $15 back, but that is not an absolute, no matter how slim the chances of it not happening are. Simutronics is not paying you to play; you're paying them. Other people are paying you, and you still pay Simutronics. It's like saying, "I had $0, got paid $1000 for the month, and spent that money on a new computer. The cool part is I now have $0 again so I bought a computer for free!"

[Soulpieced]

Bob, you've not dealt with Gift of Adventure before. It becomes a credit to your account. So if I have a credit of $xxx.xx which is over $15, I do NOT get a bill on my credit card from Simutronics. End of story. So I am not making any money "back", I am not spending that money in the first place.

Noted to say the actual numbers are a little different, and I usually sell chunks of 4 million silver which comes out to almost exactly 3 months worth of Gemstone in Gift of Adventure. I receive no bill from Simutronics if there is a credit on my account. Another person is paying Simutronics the 15 per million, so technically whomever buys my silver if paying Simutronics for my Gemstone account and not me.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Bob, you've not dealt with Gift of Adventure before.>>

Thanks for telling me what I have and have not done. Your argument is invalid.


Okay I actually read it this time. Your situation takes out the middle man: you. It's a step for convenience, so you don't handle the money, but you're still paying it because you aren't getting the money from the person and you're still giving them 1mil. I think we can meet halfway here.

[Edited on 9-26-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[Soulpieced]

Bob, you missed my first post.

"Proven - Gemstone costs 15$ a month irregardeless of what you do.

Assume - Time played and money made is irrelevant during a month."

I make WELL over 1 million silvers expending no extra effort every month. Therefore the 1 million silvers is irrelevant to me because I make more than that a month anyway. This negates your assumption that silvers mean anything, or 1 million silvers over the course of a month is hard to come by.

[Bobmuhthol]

And you missed where I said, "You can't guarantee that every month you'll get 1 million silver." It CAN change, whether it does or not.

[Soulpieced]

And you missed where I said, "You can't guarantee that every month you'll get 1 million silver." It CAN change, whether it does or not.

.

I can, actually. I made approximately 40 million silvers strictly hunting over the course of May-August. That's just slightly over 1 million a month (2.5 million silvers a week for those who struggle in math).


*I've hardly hunted for more than 5 or 6 hours this weekend and made 270k. I think I can fit 20 hours of Gemstone in a month.

[Edited on 9-26-2004 by Soulpieced]

[Bobmuhthol]

The amount of money you make is always variable, no matter how much you normally get.

[Soulpieced]

Sorry Bob, your argument no longer holds any water. Feel free to think that it's variable, but there is a min amount of treasure in OTF, and there is approximately a 0 probability of me making less than 1 million silvers in any given month.

A quote from Saturday Night Slam Masters

"Give up!.. You lose".

[Bobmuhthol]

And if you don't play for a month?

[HarmNone]

Let's put it this way:

You're USING Simu's game to gain "coin", Soulpie. "Coin" is worth nothing in the real world, unless it is converted to cash. Until that conversion, it's nothing but code.

Now, instead of converting all of that code to dollars, you convert part of it to Gifts of Adventure (more code, really). You now use those Gifts of Adventure to make more coin, part of which you sell for real world cash, and part of which you use to play the game, which allows you to continue the trade-offs. In this way, you are playing the game for no cost and making real-world money (with the coin you earn over and above that which is necessary to keep playing for free) in the process.

If you did not do it this way, you would either have to pay to play, or give up the extra cash you earn by selling coin (and items) for real-world dollars. In actuality, Simu is paying YOU to play by allowing the sale of coin and items. ;)

At least, that's the way I see it.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
And if you don't play for a month?

That's irrelevant, Bob. "If" doesn't factor in here. Soulpie is talking about what he's doing now. I'm sure he's intelligent enough to know that he can quit playing at any time, and to quit playing when he runs out of GOAs and before he must pay to play. :)

One can make almost any argument valid if one applies enough "IF" this and "IF" that.

[Soulpieced]

And if you don't play for a month?

.

Like I've said, 1 million is negligible. I have made much more than that, and have no use for silvers. Thus all of this can be applied towards Gifts of Adventure

You currently have $205.10 of credits/pre-payment remaining

The teller thumbs through the books and says, "Your balance is currently at 18628558 silvers. May I do anything else for you today?"