perfect CMANs for a OHE ambushing rogue in full plate

[IorakeWarhammer]

best cman structure for a rogue in full plate (maybe half plate soon) at level 79? full 2x in CM

[DoctorUnne]

In my opinion, in order of usefulness:

combat mobility
surge of strength
feint (but only if you hunt undead)
shadow mastery
divert (but only if you're 3x hiding - at 2x hiding i dont even enter rooms with multiple monsters)
combat focus
weapon spec
combat toughness
disarm
evade mastery (would put this much higher but youre in plate)

i would probably put vanish close to the top assuming it gets implemented like they're talking about

[IorakeWarhammer]

mobility owns. mobility and being master in stunman helps a TON. i don't use feint at all. i got that new skill that adds +3 to blocking cmans, and i went out to a bandit task and I was UNTOUCHABLE. seems to work pretty good. i also heard dirtkick was awesome but i havent had time to experiment. any logs of divert?

[DoctorUnne]

i'll post some if you let me fuck your wife

[IorakeWarhammer]

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 3
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Combat Toughness toughness 3
Surge of Strength surge 5
Evade Mastery emastery 3
Divert divert 1
Cunning Defense cdefense 5

[Stabbyrogue]

How about cman report? It works wonders when you start a bunch of shit and get killed. The best aspects are that you don't even have to spend any tps on it, and it has a hidden roll to determine if Itzel is stupid enough to fall for you saying "I don't know you. We've never met." Aloud.

[IorakeWarhammer]

whos Itzel n what is this about lol

[IorakeWarhammer]

ohh unless u may be referring to your use of "cman kill your character with no roleplaying with my bigger, meaner character that has never interacted with your character once" then yes cman report is a good counter to that one

[Stabbyrogue]

Lol. You're batshit crazy.

[Izzy]

You should definitely pick up 5 ranks of cman stopposting.

[IorakeWarhammer]

good point but I recommend at least 1xing in getting off my nuts with a possible 1.5x

[Gibreficul]

For the record, having evade mastery and wearing plate armor is wasting cman opportunity.

[IorakeWarhammer]

ok good point - can you elaborate

[DoctorUnne]

It only gives +1% to evading per rank, which most view as not worth it. I agree, which is why I won't be getting it, but I don't think someone would be retarded for doing it. If 1x dodge gives a 5% chance to dodge, 2x is 10% and 3x is 15%, then rank 3 of evade mastery is the same as 60 extra ranks of dodge at cap, which isn't horrible.

[Gibreficul]

Cloth Class
Rank 1, 9% bonus
Rank 2, 18% bonus
Rank 3, 27% bonus
Light Leather Class
Rank 1, 7% bonus
Rank 2, 14% bonus
Rank 3, 21% bonus
Scaled Leather Class
Rank 1, 5% bonus
Rank 2, 10% bonus
Rank 3, 15% bonus
Chain Class
Rank 1, 3% bonus
Rank 2, 6% bonus
Rank 3, 9% bonus
Plate Class
Rank 1, 1% bonus
Rank 2, 2% bonus
Rank 3, 3% bonus


The numbers just aren't appealing enough for my tastes after scale class armor.

[IorakeWarhammer]

I think it would be worth it to have 1 rank just so when the programming asks for a modifier, it has 1% instead of 0, sometimes just having a modifier itself gives you more although the number is only 1.. does that make sense to anyone else?

[SpiffyJr]

I think it would be worth it to have 1 rank just so when the programming asks for a modifier, it has 1% instead of 0, sometimes just having a modifier itself gives you more although the number is only 1.. does that make sense to anyone else?

No, not at all.

dodge + 0 = dodge
dodge + 1 = dodge + 1
dodge + 1 != dodge + 1 + some unknown modifier

[IorakeWarhammer]

<criefail>

[Gibreficul]

cman evade mastery is a band-aid for the current armor mechanics. It's a cunning plot to screw rogues into wearing armor that is sub-quality for their skills. I discussed cman evade mastery with a lower level rogue last night on Lichnet. For their purposes, I totally agreed, evade mastery would be a good fit. They were under level 30, wearing doubles or brig, and I believe TWC. As you approach the higher levels, you'll start becoming less reliant on overall defense, and more reliant on your armor and redux to reduce damage, as well as your armor's CvA to prevent CS spells from dominating you. As you move into higher armors, moving away from evade mastery and getting a more useful cman (I'd take +2 CS from combat focus over 1% evade chance all day.) At least I can SEE the number go up, and not assume that bonus is being applied.

I suggested that the long term goal of the rogue I was speaking with stay in brig, with their evade mastery, and work toward MBP, and when that happens, unlearn evade mastery for something that at the time will be more useful to them.
:club:

[DoctorUnne]

The plate people (and I am one of them) are really hanging their hat on the CvA as the main reason plate is still better. While I don't deny it's a huge handicap to overcome for lighter armors, there have been a LOT of recent changes which in aggregate do a pretty good job in helping the light-armored rogue stay hidden and avoid those deadly spells. Armored stealth, divert, vanish etc. all have a significant advantage for light armor, and I no longer think it's the no-brainer it used to be. I think the two paths are pretty balanced now and it's really up to the person which they prefer.

[IorakeWarhammer]

I think it's all about the redux. Especially because with strong redux you can avoid bleeders and avoid minors on HUGE hits and that is so helpful. At higher levels you're going to face situations where you're lying down in RT with tons of critters smashing you and redux is going to play a huge role there. We will see how vanish plays a role in averting this. If vanish works properly I think it could totally change the face of the game with regards to the necessity of full redux builds for older rogues.