Women Stones Her Kids... in 2004?

[ElanthianSiren]

From CNN this morning

Texas Woman Who Stoned Sons Set for Trial
By LISA FALKENBERG

TYLER, Texas (AP) - Psychiatric experts for both the defense and prosecution agree that Deanna Laney, scheduled to go on trial Monday, was mentally ill last Mother's Day weekend when she stoned two of her sons to death and severely injured a third.

But while her lawyers will try to prove she is innocent by reason of insanity, prosecutors maintain she knew right from wrong and is guilty of two counts of capital murder and one count of serious injury to a child. The prosecution is not seeking the death penalty.





A jury of eight men and four women, chosen last week and immediately sequestered because of media attention, was set to begin hearing the case Monday.

Laney, 39, a deeply religious woman who home-schooled her children in the tiny town of New Chapel Hill, 100 miles southeast of Dallas, called 911 just after midnight on May 10 and told a dispatcher: ``I've just killed my boys.''


She said God ordered her to do it.


Deputies found 8-year-old Joshua and 6-year-old Luke lying in the yard in their underwear, their skulls smashed and stones the size of dinner plates lying on their lifeless bodies. Their 14-month-old brother, Aaron, was found in his crib, alive but bleeding from a fractured skull, a pillow over his face. He is recovering.


Laney's husband, Keith, who apparently slept through the attacks, has supported his wife, attending several court hearings over the past year along with other family members.


State District Judge Cynthia Kent has ordered attorneys in the case not to comment.


Attorneys not connected to the case said the nature of the crime will make it difficult for a jury to find Laney innocent.


``You have totally blameless victims who are children,'' said Tyler attorney David Dobbs, a former Smith County prosecutor who has tried more than 20 capital murder cases. ``Blameless child victims just make everybody take a deep breath.''


Jurors rejected an insanity defense for Andrea Yates, the Houston mother who drowned her five children in their family's bathtub in June 2001 and told police the devil told her to do it. She is serving a life sentence.


The insanity defense is always difficult to prove, even if experts on both sides say that Laney was insane, attorneys say.


Psychiatric experts concluded Laney had four psychotic episodes before the killings and probably had suffered from delusional psychotic disorder for at least three years.


``The difficulty in this case is getting the jury to go from the position that everybody thinks she's crazy to the position that she is legally insane under Texas law,'' Dobbs said.


``It's a very hard standard. ... People can be really mentally ill but if they have the capacity to understand that their conduct is wrong, under our law, they are sane.''


Laney called 911 after the killings, which some say jurors could see as an awareness of wrongdoing. Yates also called 911.


During jury selection, Smith County District Attorney Matt Bingham urged jurors to consider that psychiatric evaluations were ``subjective opinions'' and suggested that mental health experts could be misled.


``Mental illness does not equal insanity,'' Bingham told prospective jurors.


George Parnham, who represented Andrea Yates, said Laney's attorneys will have a difficult time getting the jurors to focus on her mental illness rather than graphic images of dead children.


``That's a hurdle and it will always be until we reach a level of sophistication regarding mental health,'' Parnham said.


Laney is not expected to testify, but her husband and his brother, mother and sister are among probable witnesses.

She should be stoned to death herself...slowly. That is all.

-Melissa

edited to add: "God made me say that."

[Edited on Mon, March th, 2004 by ElanthianSiren]

[Wezas]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
The prosecution is not seeking the death penalty.

Unless she is found totally 100% insane, why the hell wouldn't the death penalty be enforced? If she had killed her brother and sister and injured another brother (all > 18 years old), I think she'd be put to death in a heartbeat. Kids should be no different.... actually, kids should be worse.

Not usually an advocate for the death penalty, but sometimes it's needed.

[Tendarian]

My question is if ignorance of the law is no excuse than why does it matter if people are insane or not? If they are really wacked out just make them serve the sentence they get in a high security loony bin but still make them serve the full sentence. If they "get better" they can just be moved to a real prison.

[AnticorRifling]

I think it's time we brought back public stonings as a form of execution. I'll even be the guy to cast the first stone.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Wezas
why the hell wouldn't the death penalty be enforced?What she did is wrong (killing), so we're going to kill her? Fantastic.

Cosmic moment: Yesterday's Gospel was in fact the story of the woman who was to be stoned to death. Jesus says the one without sin is the first to cast a stone.

[Galleazzo]

Yeah, right.

Medved Brothers got a story in their book on Bad Movies, when they saw the Greatest Story Ever Told in a barrio cinema. Jesus said that line, one of the audience yelled, "Shee, bro', gimme the rock, I'll kill the bitch."

Me I'm with Anticor. Gimme the rock. Gimme a dozen. Put it on live TV too. Let the world shows what happens to folk who kill their kids.

[Ylena]

Just like in the Yates deal, the husband is getting off scot-free.

Hello?!! Doesn't he share equally in the rearing of their kids? Shouldn't he bear some responsibility for their physical safety? If she's psychotic, she should be receiving treatment, and her actions should be monitored. Not only that... how the hell do you SLEEP through your kids being stoned to death in the backyard?

It absolutely infuriates me that these women were ill, needed help, and their husbands didn't get it for them, but yet the women are completely and totally to blame when they freak out and do psychotic things. Not only did Rusty Yates and this guy get off scot-free... now, after the kids and the responsibilities are out of the way, they "support" their wives by showing up at court. What are we supposed to derive from this? "Gee honey, I'm sorry I didn't help you, but I love you anyway even though you murdered my children."

At a minimum, both men are criminally negligent, and should be sitting in jail too.

[DeV]

The death penalty is a huge and everlasting debate and I don't quite know which side of the fence I want to be on. I think for me as it stands right now in this particular case, I'd have to either say life underneath the prision cell, locked in confinement 24/7, or she herself should be stoned to death.. but instead of stoning she should be made to stand under a boulder as one is carefully tipped over the edge.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Galleazzo
Me I'm with Anticor. Gimme the rock. Gimme a dozen. Put it on live TV too. Let the world shows what happens to folk who kill their kids.

Personally I don't need to witness someone being stoned to death to realize I shouldn't kill my children (when I have them), and I sure hope I'm in the majority.

[Nakiro]

I wonder if this lady, when she heard God tell her to murderer her children, thought to herself, "What would Jesus do?"

If she was psychotic enough to murder her own children in such a grusome mannor, she is obvious a danger to public health and needs to be separated from the rest of us indefinately.

[Latrinsorm]

Devil's advocate: not all children are innocent.

[Tendarian]

It absolutely infuriates me that these women were ill, needed help, and their husbands didn't get it for them, but yet the women are completely and totally to blame when they freak out and do psychotic things.

Thats crazy. To bring it to full circle should the wives of rapists and murderers have to sit in jail too since they didnt help their husbands? If you answer yes to that at least your consistant.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tendarian
Thats crazy. To bring it to full circle should the wives of rapists and murderers have to sit in jail too since they didnt help their husbands? If you answer yes to that at least your consistant. Double standards are cool when they benefit women, duh. Double standards are only bad if they benefit men or white people.

Note: In no way am I suggesting that Ylena believes in double standards of any kind.

[ElanthianSiren]

What Ylena is saying is that the man is responsible halfway for raising the children and thus responsible in part for not protecting them as he should of since he was a live in husband. I can swing that. Criminal negligence contributing to murder 1. Okay.

I'm with Anticor. I'd toss the first fifty stones. I don't believe in forgiveness when children are involved. I'd have personally been the one to hold Susan Smith's head under the water as well. How is a 13 month old not innocent? What, did the kid start crying for a diaper change? Was it toddling wrong? What the hell?

All children are innocent until adults screw them up. Thank you. The crap people do to their kids breaks my heart especially since I may never have any myself due to my health issues. It makes me raging mad to see people treat their children worse than I'd ever dream of even treating a rabid animal. -Window 1 please.

-Melissa

[Edited on Tue, March th, 2004 by ElanthianSiren]

[Artha]

Hell, give me some rock shaping tools, PVC pipe, and a CO2 cannister, and I'll make a rock cannon with rocks for you guys.

I mean, if you're going to do it, do it right.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Ylena
how the hell do you SLEEP through your kids being stoned to death in the backyard?

Not to defend him, but I sleep through pretty much anything.

I fell out of my top bunk when I was a kid and didn't wake up till morning. That might explain a few things about me.

[Artha]

I just thought of something...

...how the hell did she get the second kid to stay still?


/what is this handbasket and where is it going?

[imported_Kranar]

<< It absolutely infuriates me that these women were ill, needed help, and their husbands didn't get it for them, but yet the women are completely and totally to blame when they freak out and do psychotic things. >>

With respect to Rusty Yates, the mother was found guilty of first degree murder. She was not a psycho and a jury of 12 concluded that she acted of her own free will and conscience when she chose to take the life of her children.

This means she is entirely to blame for the murder of her own children.

<< What Ylena is saying is that the man is responsible halfway for raising the children and thus responsible in part for not protecting them as he should of since he was a live in husband. >>

So if I have a daughter, and she gets raped, I'm to blame since as the father I should have protected my daughter from being raped?

How is the above any different for murder, even if it's the mother who comitted the murder, or a neighbour, or a relative?

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Kranar
So if I have a daughter, and she gets raped, I'm to blame since as the father I should have protected my daughter from being raped?

How is the above any different for murder, even if it's the mother who comitted the murder, or a neighbour, or a relative?

The difference is unless you set your daughter up with the guy who raped her or forced her to date him, you were not living under the same roof with the offender. You are not to blame if some guy grabs her off the street and rapes her, or if some guy breaks into your house and rapes her Jean-Benette style. We would all pretty much take a deep breath in that instance and say... God, Kranar, I'm so so so so so so sorry man. ::hugs::

If you're wife is living under your same roof and you've ignored the fact that she's nuts and a danger to your children, you are acting negligently in my mind at least. Perhaps there is no difference, but I would hope that any parent in an unhealthy situation as per described of this case would get out... if nothing else for the sake of the kids.

Abuse is very rarely a once and done thing. There are usually signs... like this woman's psychotic behavior earlier on. When someone starts acting psychotic, I am so out the door. Based on the way I have seen it escalate in the past, I wouldn't allow my kids or myself to be put through that, and I fault anyone who would. You can say that it's unfair. That's fine, but it's the way I see it.

-Melissa

[imported_Kranar]

Andrea Yates had never abused her children, infact she never harmed them in anyway prior to murdering them.

Infact, if I remember correctly, there is even dispute as to whether Andrea Yates actually suffered from any actual psychological illness. Just because she did some pretty crazy things doesn't mean she acted as a result of a disease and not of her own free will.

Since a jury of 12 found that she did infact act of her own free will in murdering her own children, I maintain that the fault is hers, and hers alone.

[imported_Kranar]

I suppose I'm not a fan of trying to victimize Andrea Yates as being a poor mentally ill woman who was made to have 5 children and had to work so hard taking care of everyone by an oppressive and irresponsible husband. As if I should feel some sympathy for her when she decided to go nuts and kill her children.

I don't know all the details of the trial, but I see it being painted in the manner I described above and I don't think it works out. Not to mention I think if it were a father who did this, no one would even consider blaming the wife for being responsible for murder.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Kranar
Andrea Yates had never abused her children, infact she never harmed them in anyway prior to murdering them.

Infact, if I remember correctly, there is even dispute as to whether Andrea Yates actually suffered from any actual psychological illness. Just because she did some pretty crazy things doesn't mean she acted as a result of a disease and not of her own free will.

Since a jury of 12 found that she did infact act of her own free will in murdering her own children, I maintain that the fault is hers, and hers alone.

I hear what you're saying, and I agree in that case, but the Laney case is totally different in my mind. She obviously was suffering from mental problems. They were documented. People knew about them. HER HUSBAND knew about them. The kids should be examined for woulds concurrent with phsyical etc abuse, and if found, the husband tried as well for negligence/manslaughter.

The ugliness of the American Justice system is when people try to take one case and make a blanket law out of it. -Three strikes in California for instance. Judges Judge. That is what they are paid to do, and it should always be on a case by case basis. I don't believe a law should be made where every husband to every woman who murders her children should be tossed in jail for life because he's automatically guilty. I'm saying... it should be examined on a case by case basis.

In the other case you mention, trying the husband would be a waste of the judicial resource because there is no EVIDENCE to bring him to trial as an unfit parent that contributed to the deaths of his children. He could never have known. Yates was lucid and coherent as per the jury's decision.

As I stated before, the facts are otherwise in this situation. If an animal shows potential to harm your family, you put the animal down. If a person shows psychotic tendencies, you get them on meds and send them to the mental ward for awhile. You don't say "Gee honey... how about you raise the kids while I sleep."

-Melissa

I edited this to claify some points that I made foggy.

[Edited on Tue, March th, 2004 by ElanthianSiren]

[imported_Kranar]

<< I hear what you're saying, and I agree in that case, but the Laney case is totally different in my mind. >>

I do agree that there could be circumstances where a parent is criminally negligent, but I would be very hesitant and cautious in making such a claim.

I'll admit ignorance about the Laney case until I see more about it in the news.

[TheEschaton]

I thought the nature of psychosis, in many cases, is its undetectablility?


-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
All children are innocent until adults screw them up. You don't give children nearly enough credit.

[Galleazzo]

All I can say is our courts don't sentence people to be tortured to death nearly as much as they ought.

[Reyek]

I support the death penalty. Main reason. Why should my tax dollars be put to work to support her for the rest of her life? I rather it be put to use else where......like a $95 toilet seat!