When does ambush training pay off?

[Drazaan]

I play a currently level 22 ranged ranger that trains 2x ranged, 2x perception, and 1x ambush. I have 19 ranger spells currently. I am aware that this is by no means an unusual training path.

I can't aim shots against like level opponents for the life of me. What gives? When will I be effective with aiming? Is this typical for low level characters and then at some point Self-Control will pay off greater dividends for my aiming?

I have recently begun to mitigate points from S&H to reach 1.5x ambush to help out. Should I try to push 1.5x ambushing until I get to a higher level where I can get by with just 1x?

Thanks for the help guys.
-Eric

[Amber]

There was debate on this for a while, but I think it's been conclusively shown that ambush doesn't aid in aiming from the open. BriarFox posted a great archery resource that I'm linking to that might help you out.
http://gravity.dnsprotect.com/~gsplayer/forum/showthread.php?t=49785

[Drazaan]

Wait, I want to make sure I understand this because it goes against everything I had conceptualized before. What skills are taken into account when aiming from the open then? Perception is it?

If it is just perception, then I would rephrase my central question as why can't I successfully aim shots against like-level creatures even with max training in perception?

Thanks so much for the link Amber, I've read over BriarFox's guide recently and it's wonderful to have all that information in one place.
-Eric

[BriarFox]

Wait, I want to make sure I understand this because it goes against everything I had conceptualized before. What skills are taken into account when aiming from the open then? Perception is it?

If it is just perception, then I would rephrase my central question as why can't I successfully aim shots against like-level creatures even with max training in perception?

Thanks so much for the link Amber, I've read over BriarFox's guide recently and it's wonderful to have all that information in one place.
-Eric

Yep, just perception for open archery. As to why you can't aim shots very well - it's simply because you're only 22. You should notice pretty good success going into level 30 and then getting better, as long as you're 2xing.

Other factors that affect aiming: level vs. opponent, encumbrance, spells (helping or harming), wounds, and sighting.

[Drazaan]

Thank you BriarFox, sounds like I have a few more trainings to go then. I think I'm just eager to get to a point where I am effective with this hunting style.

I've picked up on the level vs. opponent aspect of aiming, so I thought maybe if I boosted my ambush it would change the situation at a quicker rate, but it looks like I'm on course with my current training and just need to be a little more patient.
-Eric

[Warriorbird]

Don't worry too much for now. Life isn't anywhere near difficult at that point.

[BriarFox]

Thank you BriarFox, sounds like I have a few more trainings to go then. I think I'm just eager to get to a point where I am effective with this hunting style.

I've picked up on the level vs. opponent aspect of aiming, so I thought maybe if I boosted my ambush it would change the situation at a quicker rate, but it looks like I'm on course with my current training and just need to be a little more patient.
-Eric

By the way, what are you aiming at? Some targets are much harder to hit than others. The basic rule is the smaller the target, the harder it is to hit. Eyes are the worst, then neck, and hands are tough, too. Chest and back are easy, and so are legs. You'll notice better success if you aim for a leg, get a knockdown, then aim for the head or neck.

[Drazaan]

I was unsure if you got the knockdown benefits you get with melee ambushing. Typically when I've tried to aim, I tried for the neck because it's a larger target than the optimal eye shot.

Having said that, I can't consistent hit eyes or necks on anything near my training, so when I've tried, I switch back to non-aimed shots pretty quickly.

[StrayRogue]

Regardless if it isn't the same penalties as you get for being prone vs. melee (which I think are the same), the critter is on it's back. It will require a move (more RT) to stand up, thus giving you more time to kill it safely.

[BriarFox]

I was unsure if you got the knockdown benefits you get with melee ambushing. Typically when I've tried to aim, I tried for the neck because it's a larger target than the optimal eye shot.

Having said that, I can't consistent hit eyes or necks on anything near my training, so when I've tried, I switch back to non-aimed shots pretty quickly.

You do get the knockdown DS benefit. That you're aiming for the neck ismost of your problem. Aim for the leg, get a knockdown, then go for the head. You should experience at least 50% accuracy to the legs. Try it out.

[Drazaan]

You were right! I tried it out in the Spider Temple tonight and it worked like a charm. I was hitting legs over 75% of the time.

Thanks for helping my ambushing training points become useful. Now it should be easy to make it to 30 and not feel like it has just been a giant dump of TPs.

[BriarFox]

You were right! I tried it out in the Spider Temple tonight and it worked like a charm. I was hitting legs over 75% of the time.

Thanks for helping my ambushing training points become useful. Now it should be easy to make it to 30 and not feel like it has just been a giant dump of TPs.

Nice. Ambush still isn't doing anything for your aiming if you're in the open, though. :P But, it will add to your AS.

[Asha]

But, it will add to your AS.

Barely. Not worth the points at all till ambushing from hiding.

[Drazaan]

I guess I should have clarified that while I'm in the Spider Temple I made use of sniping instead of open aiming because I'm a little exposed to CS-based spells unless I receive some sort of outside spell up.

I'm not really noticing any improvement in hitting target locations though once the target is prone. I'm not sure if that is more due to my relatively low level or if prone targets don't aid in ranged aiming (unlike melee ambushing where it definitely improvements your odds).

[BriarFox]

I guess I should have clarified that while I'm in the Spider Temple I made use of sniping instead of open aiming because I'm a little exposed to CS-based spells until I receive some sort of outside spell up.

I'm not really noticing any improvement in hitting target locations though once the target is prone. I'm not sure if that is more due to my relatively low level or if prone targets don't aid in ranged aiming (unlike melee ambushing where it definitely improvements your odds).

It helps, but if you're aiming for the eyes or neck, at your level you'll probably still miss.