PDA

View Full Version : Don’t talk to aliens



Parkbandit
04-25-2010, 10:04 AM
THE aliens are out there and Earth had better watch out, at least according to Stephen Hawking. He has suggested that extraterrestrials are almost certain to exist — but that instead of seeking them out, humanity should be doing all it that can to avoid any contact.

The suggestions come in a new documentary series in which Hawking, one of the world’s leading scientists, will set out his latest thinking on some of the universe’s greatest mysteries.

Alien life, he will suggest, is almost certain to exist in many other parts of the universe: not just in planets, but perhaps in the centre of stars or even floating in interplanetary space.

Hawking’s logic on aliens is, for him, unusually simple. The universe, he points out, has 100 billion galaxies, each containing hundreds of millions of stars. In such a big place, Earth is unlikely to be the only planet where life has evolved.

“To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational,” he said. “The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like.”

The answer, he suggests, is that most of it will be the equivalent of microbes or simple animals — the sort of life that has dominated Earth for most of its history.

One scene in his documentary for the Discovery Channel shows herds of two-legged herbivores browsing on an alien cliff-face where they are picked off by flying, yellow lizard-like predators. Another shows glowing fluorescent aquatic animals forming vast shoals in the oceans thought to underlie the thick ice coating Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter.

Such scenes are speculative, but Hawking uses them to lead on to a serious point: that a few life forms could be intelligent and pose a threat. Hawking believes that contact with such a species could be devastating for humanity.

He suggests that aliens might simply raid Earth for its resources and then move on: “We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach.”

He concludes that trying to make contact with alien races is “a little too risky”. He said: “If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn’t turn out very well for the Native Americans.”

The completion of the documentary marks a triumph for Hawking, now 68, who is paralysed by motor neurone disease and has very limited powers of communication. The project took him and his producers three years, during which he insisted on rewriting large chunks of the script and checking the filming.

John Smithson, executive producer for Discovery, said: “He wanted to make a programme that was entertaining for a general audience as well as scientific and that’s a tough job, given the complexity of the ideas involved.”

Hawking has suggested the possibility of alien life before but his views have been clarified by a series of scientific breakthroughs, such as the discovery, since 1995, of more than 450 planets orbiting distant stars, showing that planets are a common phenomenon.

So far, all the new planets found have been far larger than Earth, but only because the telescopes used to detect them are not sensitive enough to detect Earth-sized bodies at such distances.

Another breakthrough is the discovery that life on Earth has proven able to colonise its most extreme environments. If life can survive and evolve there, scientists reason, then perhaps nowhere is out of bounds.

Hawking’s belief in aliens places him in good scientific company. In his recent Wonders of the Solar System BBC series, Professor Brian Cox backed the idea, too, suggesting Mars, Europa and Titan, a moon of Saturn, as likely places to look.

Similarly, Lord Rees, the astronomer royal, warned in a lecture earlier this year that aliens might prove to be beyond human understanding.

“I suspect there could be life and intelligence out there in forms we can’t conceive,” he said. “Just as a chimpanzee can’t understand quantum theory, it could be there are aspects of reality that are beyond the capacity of our brains.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7107207.ece

Interesting article.. that I happen to agree with.

Kitsun
04-25-2010, 10:09 AM
Did... did he just steal the plot to Independence Day?

BriarFox
04-25-2010, 10:12 AM
Seems pretty reasonable. I think it might play out similar to District 9. Fuck the earth when they come back for revenge. Good movie, that.

Kuyuk
04-25-2010, 10:37 AM
Wow, something that I've said for a very long time.

If there are aliens, and they've been visiting us (for whatever length you believe in)... something tells me they're much more advanced and have much better weapons than we could have, as they already have interstellar travel...

derp derp.

Parkbandit
04-25-2010, 11:27 AM
Wow, something that I've said for a very long time.

If there are aliens, and they've been visiting us (for whatever length you believe in)... something tells me they're much more advanced and have much better weapons than we could have, as they already have interstellar travel...

derp derp.

Who said they have visited us before?

I think Hawking's point is.. let's not go blabbing about where exactly we live by beaming out "Greetings" to the stars.. to some intelligent aliens, it might be used as a homing beacon for a planet full of herding meat (us).

I'm all for looking.. let's just not go advertising.

Mighty Nikkisaurus
04-25-2010, 12:40 PM
Very interesting, and a point of view I agree with.

On Voyager 1 and 2 there's a Golden Record with basically directions to Earth, a bunch of various greetings in different languages, a bunch of recordings of earth sounds (of animals and nature), history clips, music clips, etc. Hawking very heavily criticized the inclusion of this.. I definitely agree it was very stupid. We have no way of knowing, if another space faring species comes across it, that they don't have the technology to reach us and that they wouldn't be hostile.

Liagala
04-25-2010, 01:23 PM
Directions or no, if a hostile species came across any of our space junk, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to follow its trajectory back toward likely-looking planets. In even Galactic terms (forget Cosmic), the distance Voyager has traveled from us is probably equivalent to a kid on the near side of the road throwing a snowball at your car as you drive by. It's not tough to figure out where it came from.

Given our level of technological advancement, and our extreme distaste as a species for abandoning progress (or the attempts at it), we are going to be advertising our whereabouts for a long time. We're going to be effectively helpless against any hostile visitors for a long time. Since we aren't willing to go back to a level that avoids sending objects/signals into space, our only option is to move forward to a point where we can interact on an even level with whoever finds our stuff and comes to investigate. That's probably going to take a few thousand years, if we're extremely lucky.

Asrial
04-25-2010, 01:43 PM
I think Hawking's point is.. let's not go blabbing about where exactly we live by beaming out "Greetings" to the stars.. to some intelligent aliens, it might be used as a homing beacon for a planet full of herding meat (us).Which we've already been doing ala Contact.

Tisket
04-25-2010, 01:44 PM
Did... did he just steal the plot to Independence Day?

Sounds like he's applying to be a writer for V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_(2009_TV_series))

Kranar
04-25-2010, 01:55 PM
I don't really see what resources Earth has that an advanced life form smart enough to visit us couldn't find in much higher quantities else where.

Tisket
04-25-2010, 01:59 PM
I don't really see what resources Earth has that an advanced life form smart enough to visit us couldn't find in much higher quantities else where.

How do you know that human meat won't be the universe's equivalent of prime rib?

Androidpk
04-25-2010, 02:05 PM
How do you know that human meat won't be the universe's equivalent of prime rib?

Or worse, bacon. Then we'd be really screwed.

Latrinsorm
04-25-2010, 02:18 PM
Which we've already been doing ala Contact.I was really disappointed to learn that that movie's scientific premise is a sham. TV signals and their ilk don't even reach 1 light year from the earth, so even if you could somehow separate out terran radiation from that of the Sun's you would have to have your ear to the speaker (so to speak) to detect it. On the plus side, this means that no alien home planet has ever seen a picture of Hitler, so that's pretty sweet.

Asrial
04-25-2010, 02:25 PM
Hmm. Oh well.

One area I've never really understood is how energy like that can.. run out of energy.

For example.. a TV signal that has no obstructions (dust, etc).. what determines how far it can go before it becomes non-existant?

Liagala
04-25-2010, 02:32 PM
Hmm. Oh well.

One area I've never really understood is how energy like that can.. run out of energy.

For example.. a TV signal that has no obstructions (dust, etc).. what determines how far it can go before it becomes non-existant?

I actually just looked this up when I saw Latrin's most recent post. The "energy" that makes it up is continually spreading out, and growing more diffuse. At some point, it becomes too weak to actually pick up anymore, though it is still there. For illustration, point a flashlight at the wall while standing near it. Back up, while watching what happens to the spot of light.

Latrinsorm
04-25-2010, 02:40 PM
The trick is that there is always noise, and to be a detectable a signal has to be stronger than or at least of nearly the same magnitude as that. Add in that power has to fill up a spherical volume and that the signal has to fight its way through the atmosphere to even get to space, and there's just no way. If we had a nuclear power plant on the moon that devoted all of its energy to a signal, it would barely reach Proxima Centauri at a detectable level.

I suppose if the alien civilization in question had developed a way to exactly and comprehensively predict the future, they would be able to perfectly account for noise, but they probably wouldn't have to bother because they'd already know if they were going to know about us.

Warriorbird
04-25-2010, 04:55 PM
I don't really see what resources Earth has that an advanced life form smart enough to visit us couldn't find in much higher quantities else where.

Reality tv stars.

TheEschaton
04-25-2010, 05:04 PM
Very interesting, and a point of view I agree with.

On Voyager 1 and 2 there's a Golden Record with basically directions to Earth, a bunch of various greetings in different languages, a bunch of recordings of earth sounds (of animals and nature), history clips, music clips, etc. Hawking very heavily criticized the inclusion of this.. I definitely agree it was very stupid. We have no way of knowing, if another space faring species comes across it, that they don't have the technology to reach us and that they wouldn't be hostile.

But we have Bruce Willis and a black President, everything'll work out.

Methais
04-25-2010, 06:46 PM
Who said they have visited us before?

I think Hawking's point is.. let's not go blabbing about where exactly we live by beaming out "Greetings" to the stars.. to some intelligent aliens, it might be used as a homing beacon for a planet full of herding meat (us).

I'm all for looking.. let's just not go advertising.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516JHGHC31L._SS500_.jpg

Methais
04-25-2010, 06:47 PM
I don't really see what resources Earth has that an advanced life form smart enough to visit us couldn't find in much higher quantities else where.

Internet.

Parkbandit
04-25-2010, 07:26 PM
I don't really see what resources Earth has that an advanced life form smart enough to visit us couldn't find in much higher quantities else where.

Oil?

Coal?

Diamonds?

Any of the man made elements?

Sea Salt?

Water?

Wood?

Drew
04-25-2010, 07:33 PM
I don't really see what resources Earth has that an advanced life form smart enough to visit us couldn't find in much higher quantities else where.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis


The idea being, it's much easier to find a needle with a radio transmitter in a haystack.

Mark Twain: "Buy land, they're not making it anymore"

IorakeWarhammer
04-25-2010, 07:53 PM
if aliens wanted anything it would be DNA.. life forms on this planet are like all natural empaths.. remember stargate when the weirdie pharoah guy says he likes people cuz they heal easy? somethin like that <3

Tisket
04-25-2010, 07:58 PM
I still think that the obesity epidemic is an alien design to plump us up for future harvesting. McD, Wendy's, KFC...all alien owned and operated. The invasion has already begun.

Drew
04-25-2010, 08:26 PM
I still think that the obesity epidemic is an alien design to plump us up for future harvesting. McD, Wendy's, KFC...all alien owned and operated. The invasion has already begun.

This explains the KFC double down.

Back
04-25-2010, 08:28 PM
Now he tells us?

A little slow out of the gate, brainiac.

BigWorm
04-25-2010, 09:26 PM
The probability of an alien civilization being with even 1000 years of us technologically is minuscule. Best case scenario, we are looking at having a knife at a gun fight.

Asrial
04-25-2010, 10:19 PM
The probability of an alien civilization being with even 1000 years of us technologically is minuscule. Best case scenario, we are looking at having a knife at a gun fight.Don't forget the bacteria!

Gan
04-25-2010, 10:23 PM
You guys are obviously forgetting the Prime Directive.



Live long and prosper.

Tisket
04-26-2010, 03:30 PM
These seem to belong here. Saw them on another forum where the posters were debating this subject:

The results of alien contact per Hawkings:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w66/Sassy_Photos_2007/zzzzzalien.jpg

and/or:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w66/Sassy_Photos_2007/zzzzzet.jpg

AnticorRifling
04-26-2010, 03:47 PM
Both of those pictures are awesome.

Suppa Hobbit Mage
04-26-2010, 04:58 PM
This explains the KFC double down.

So I dared to have one of those on the way home from work Friday. It was meh... I guess I like my bread too much.

Suppa Hobbit Mage
04-26-2010, 04:59 PM
Also, any aliens come into my house, I'm killing them with water. More likely a high pressure stream of piss, but either way I'm killing them.

Keller
04-26-2010, 05:02 PM
This explains the KFC double down.

This is America. If you intend to criticize the INSTITUTION that it the double down, you can leave the country, or move to Portland, hippy.

Drew
04-26-2010, 05:42 PM
This is America. If you intend to criticize the INSTITUTION that it the double down, you can leave the country, or move to Portland, hippy.

Fine, I've got my granola bars, weed, and fryer oil burning subaru ready.

Keller
04-26-2010, 05:50 PM
Fine, I've got my granola bars, weed, and fryer oil burning subaru ready.

You're missing a djembe, imposter.

Drew
04-26-2010, 05:53 PM
You're missing a djembe, imposter.

Yes but I have a DJ Mbenga saying "DACOS" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1rZBxn3Zx8) which is better.

Sean of the Thread
04-28-2010, 06:35 AM
Anyone else been watching the History Channel series of "Ancient Aliens"? I like it.

Speaking of aliens I finally watched "Avatar" last night and enjoyed it once I got past the whole traitor Marine thing.

Stanley Burrell
04-28-2010, 06:54 AM
I need to get the Mothership Zeta add-on for Fallout 3. Because ... Aliens.