Solomon on Micro-transactions

[Fallen]

Here are a few posts from the Shattered boards I found interesting. It is Solomon discussing his thoughts on Micro-Transactions.
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<<Micro-transactions would be a really intelligent way to go with Shattered.>>

Micro-trans is the way to go in general and I can say without a doubt that I'd love to use them (and not just in Shattered).

Unfortunately, our Billing System is not even remotely set up for that, as the entire concept of Microtransactions weren't even a glimmer in anyone's eye when we wrote it back in 1997.

Solomon

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<<I mean, if it's an obvious thing then what's stopping it from happening?>>

Yes, it's a good idea, but there are a host of factors that play into it that you're not aware of. We've already been looking for a Billing solution that would do what we want while still doing what we already do and working the way our system already works. They simply do no exist. Using any new off-the-shelf system would require total devotion and focus from multiple individuals (not just on our side, but on their side as well) for excessive number of months and basically reworking every single aspect of our back end, access control system, and forums. We don't have the capability to do that. Just updating the website alone to using a new access system, while still maintaining PCI Compliance, would take over a year with the staff we currently have.

Our system was custom coded to do things the right way and the best way, and while it does have a couple of shortcomings, it's still amazingly robust and exceptionally powerful. We've had folks from several (several) billing solution companies who've come in to the office so that we could show them our list of needs. They come in all smug and cock-sure and leave scratching their heads with pages of notes on what they're missing. They start off saying, "Oh...we have that." and then quickly shift to, "Oh, we could probably get someone to add that." and then to, "Oh...uhm...that might take some time." and eventually end up with, "Huh? What do you need that fo... Oh. Wow. Yeah. That's...handy.". Some of the most basic tools that out office folks have access to never crossed their minds. Likewise, some of the most basic accounting and accountability tools never even crossed their mind either, or if they did, they're rudimentary at best. None of them have had any sort of basic hierarchical structure from a customer/account/subscription/character standpoint that makes any sense when compared to our system. For example, most of them have no idea why on earth we (or a customer) would want (or need) to have two "accounts" (by their definition of "accounts"). None of them have any concept of "characters", at least, not that can be easily transferred to another "account" without 100% of the back-end data (history of purchases, customer logs, etc.) being migrated to the new "account" along with it. Several of them didn't even have ways to look up customers other than by name or email. None of them had any integrated customer service tools.

That's not to say that I don't think we can find a way to do it. It's just not as easy as "upgrading the billing system" sounds.

But we're getting off topic.

Solomon

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<<I do hope that isn't meant to imply that you think microtransactions would be a good thing in the main game. Enough of my old friends already left due (in part) to the "buy an item" pay festivals; I don't want to think about how many of the rest would be driven off by a model of "pay X dollars to enchant your armor and it gets done.">>

You only don't want to think about it because you're only thinking about it in black and white terms.

What if the game was free to play, with the ability to play GS, get basic, simple enhancements and enchantments just like you can now, still have the occasional free special events, but "premium" services, enhancements, and events were "a la carte", pay as you go.

And/Or what if the solution to "X dollars = enchant your armor" was "X=2" (or 3 or 5) and not "10" (20 or 50).

If you understand the concept of micro-trans, then you cannot be scared of it. Just look at Facebook and how Playfish and Zynga work (and thrive).

But again, we've gotten WAY off topic and micro-trans isn't likely to happen in the near future, so it doesn't matter.

Solomon

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<<I can see where things could be really complicated. That said, I do hope that it can happen at some point in the not too distant future. >>

You and me both.

We thought it would be so easy to just "transition over" to a new billing solution. Ugh. It ended up wasting about 4 months of time just investigating all the options and spending a week (at least) or all day meetings as each company would come down to show off their stuff, only to end up walking out of here punch-drunk after David would just walk in after their presentations and start asking them relatively simple questions about what we consider very basic practices, tools, and functionality. It would have been comical if it hadn't been so sad and depressing.

Solomon

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And here is a funny Q and A snippet I thought I would throw in as well.

<<Will favouritism be present and allowed? For instance, say I fancy a certain GM, and the feeling is mutual in that they give me a 10x item. Allowed?>>

<<Say three weeks later, another GM doesn't like me and they mysteriously make my 10x item disappear. Allowed?>>

Despite the badge I wear in TF that says, "Will Alter for Sex", no, it's not allowed.

Solomon

[AestheticLife]

How would it be difficult to code? Private servers for dozens of games have managed it over time. Accept paypal payments, or additional billing charges of set amounts, process them by hand (zomg two more minutes of work per ticket), create and mail out the certificate for whatever item/service was offered, and the player then redeems said certificate via referral.

SO DIFFICULT. Sure, the first two days will be nicely backed up with the seventy people trying to alter entire outfits, or flare their half plate, but the service would bring in a lot of added revenue. People already pay ~$14 per alteration as it is, if they're impatient enough.

[AnticorRifling]

Official boards and it says will alter for sex?! zomg that's a paddlin'

[Swami71]

So micro transactions means paying cash for items and services in game (i.e. alters, enchants, toys) right?

[AnticorRifling]

How would it be difficult to code? Private servers for dozens of games have managed it over time. Accept paypal payments, or additional billing charges of set amounts, process them by hand (zomg two more minutes of work per ticket), create and mail out the certificate for whatever item/service was offered, and the player then redeems said certificate via referral.

SO DIFFICULT. Sure, the first two days will be nicely backed up with the seventy people trying to alter entire outfits, or flare their half plate, but the service would bring in a lot of added revenue. People already pay ~$14 per alteration as it is, if they're impatient enough.

Without knowing their billing system/code and game code I'm just speculating but any decent fin. software could accomodate transactions like this. Hell our ERP financials could do it with minor modifications if what I'm thinking would work...

[AnticorRifling]

So micro transactions means paying cash for items and services in game (i.e. alters, enchants, toys) right? Correct.

Basically you pay your monthly service fee, then any extras you get from the company for a cost are micro-transactions. The festivals/holiday events are similar but there's more too it.

[HSB]

So micro transactions means paying cash for items and services in game (i.e. alters, enchants, toys) right?

Never mind. See above post. Damn typing on this tiny ass keyboard...

[Kitsun]

So micro transactions means paying cash for items and services in game (i.e. alters, enchants, toys) right?

Yeah, pretty much.

Instead of paying Simu for access to a festival ground for a week, you'd be ponying up for each service/item.

[Barundar]

So micro transactions means paying cash for items and services in game (i.e. alters, enchants, toys) right?

I'm just going to remove what I said to cut down on the stream of redundancy. Here, have a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_good

[ElvenFury]

Micro-transaction: When Anticor tries to give you his penis.

[Swami71]

Well I got my question answered.

I prefer the way things are now.

[Izzy]

Yeah, pretty much.

Instead of paying Simu for access to a festival ground for a week, you'd be ponying up for each service/item.

I don't think it's necessarily either/or.

Everyone might pay for the festival would get x, y z normal stuff (standard merchants, in-game auctions, etc).

However there could, in addition, be things on a more commodity-based level that one could purchase for cash, ie "$5 = 1 hour of personal alterations," or "enchanting: 4-5x = $10, 5-6x = $13..." etc etc.

All in all, handling money is a tricky thing business-wise, especially with any sort of real-time returns. WoW can do it because it's as simple as getting one very specific item. Things like enchanting and alterations are muuuch more complex.

[BriarFox]

You could also think of MTs in a different fashion. Implement them and make the game free. Now, put a cap on how many points people can buy depending on their level, or put in item tiers that are accessed at successive levels. Have one tier for each 10 levels, for instance, with the highest tier unlocked only at cap. You could buy as many things in the tier (which could include healing, raises, deeds, etc.) as you wanted.

Depending on whether people are prime, premium, or plat subscribers, give them access to other item tiers, or simply allow premium subscribers to buy in the next tier up and plat subscribers to buy two tiers up.

That sort of structure would work pretty effectively, I think. It'd encourage people both to buy GSPs (Gemstone Points) and advance in level, but maintain separation across the level tiers so things aren't too disrupted.

Just copying my post from the officials.

[Celephais]

I'm confused as to how they don't have this already, they sell tickets for events, so they have the concept of single transactions, and they give premium points which can be automated based on your billing type.

Allow people to buy GSPs as Briar called them in $5, 500GSP chunks, store them the same as premium points, have your in game services subtract the appropriate number of GSPs.

I understand they have a difficult system to work with, but it sounds like they have everything they need already.

[Stanley Burrell]

Our system was custom coded to do things the right way and the best way, and while it does have a couple of shortcomings, it's still amazingly robust and exceptionally powerful. We've had folks from several (several) billing solution companies who've come in to the office so that we could show them our list of needs. They come in all smug and cock-sure and leave scratching their heads with pages of notes on what they're missing. They start off saying, "Oh...we have that." and then quickly shift to, "Oh, we could probably get someone to add that." and then to, "Oh...uhm...that might take some time." and eventually end up with, "Huh? What do you need that fo... Oh. Wow. Yeah. That's...handy."

Yeah, well, bringing up the idea of whether or not to allow trial-account characters to buy cheese at the Grocer's to place in the Catacombs in order to summon extra rats will leave those fools scratching their heads. Word.

Fffff.

[Allereli]

they would bring in a ton if they had 2 people working solely on alterations, $10 each

[Kitsun]

Those one-per character treasure piles. Pay event ticket to access each one through their filtering arches. Let me have my bottomless quiver.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Just updating the website alone to using a new access system, while still maintaining PCI Compliance, would take over a year with the staff we currently have.

And this is why they are dying a slow, painful death.

[HSB]

"$5 = 1 hour of personal alterations,"

I'd keep them busy for days if this were implemented at this price.

[AestheticLife]

$10 per alteration, and niche benefits for micro trans beyond that (fluff and stuff, merchant tickets, etc).

NOTHING THAT OFFERS A MECHANICAL BOOST, and we're golden.

Simu gets damn near their entire monthly income on GS doubled on day 1, guaranteed.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

That is fucking retarded. Ten bucks for an alteration when you can (or at least used to be able too) get one or two a week if you tried? Aren't they still putting them on calendar and telling you where to go in game and all that jazz?

[HSB]

That is fucking retarded. Ten bucks for an alteration when you can (or at least used to be able too) get one or two a week if you tried? Aren't they still putting them on calendar and telling you where to go in game and all that jazz?

Very infrequently, and when they do show up they generally manage to handle ~40% of the people who chase them down. So you end up standing around for 3 hours and not getting spun, once every couple of weeks. I'd plunk down 10 bucks for alterations like they were going out of style (for a while anyway).

[Lord Orbstar]

it would be a short term shot in the arm for them, but long term financial growth and player base is what they need.

SIMU wants to succeed and is more aware of their situation than any of us internet armchair quarterbacks. It would be great if they could interface with facebook or one of those social sites the way they did with AOL. that was the heyday of player base (and snerts). The current facebook games are worthless timesinks. Gemstone at least encourages player interaction and interdependance (minus the MA posses).

I think it could bring in a few of those "farm town" or "vampire wars" players if they could get a spot on Facebook. Again, I am sure SIMU is exploring and trying to find ways to grow and I hope they are successful. More players=income=new GM coders=better world and systems=happier players

[pabstblueribbon]

I don't really see the allure. When you can just plunk down your 5 dollars, how unique and special is an alteration then?

Usually alterations are shit tastic anyways and just imagine how horrid they'll get when some douche makes the argument that "I'm paying so you have to make my cloak of shadowy death".

Game point systems where you can buy points to get better items, to me, seems to really cheapen mechanics, the game, and attaining the skills to make better items.

I don't like it, but I'm sure you already knew that.

[Latrinsorm]

If you understand the concept of micro-trans, then you cannot be scared of it.Ladies and gentlemen, the heart of customer service - if you don't like what we propose, you're an idiot.
When you can just plunk down your 5 dollars, how unique and special is an alteration then?The point isn't to get an alteration, the point is to get my alteration. I would definitely pay five dollars for the perfect alteration for my character. Five dollars is only about 20 minutes worth of work for me, and it takes way more than 20 minutes to have a reasonable certainty of attaining an alteration.

[crb]

I think Solomon fails to understand how microtransactions are typically done.

Look at Google. Their advertising program allows you to buy clicks for pennies, but if they were to run your credit card for each individual click, they'd lose money because of credit card processing fees.

Even on something small like $5, It might be sometime like 2% + 35 cents for simutronics, which approaches 10% of the total transaction, eaten in costs.

Go to a mom and pop gas station and buy a stick of gum with a credit card and see the dirty looks they give you.

Anyways, what you instead do is sell the person points/tokens/credits in larger quantities, which they can then cash in over time.

So there would be no need to have the billing system attached to the game whereby, while logged into the game, you can spend money from your credit card. All you need to do is piggy back on or duplicate the PP system, which is a one way push of information from billing to the game to credit your ingame account with the points, that really only need be done once a day.

[Stanley Burrell]

I think Solomon fails to understand how microtransactions are typically done.

Look at Google. Their advertising program allows you to buy clicks for pennies, but if they were to run your credit card for each individual click, they'd lose money because of credit card processing fees.

Even on something small like $5, It might be sometime like 2% + 35 cents for simutronics, which approaches 10% of the total transaction, eaten in costs.

Go to a mom and pop gas station and buy a stick of gum with a credit card and see the dirty looks they give you.

Anyways, what you instead do is sell the person points/tokens/credits in larger quantities, which they can then cash in over time.

So there would be no need to have the billing system attached to the game whereby, while logged into the game, you can spend money from your credit card. All you need to do is piggy back on or duplicate the PP system, which is a one way push of information from billing to the game to credit your ingame account with the points, that really only need be done once a day.

He's said, at least from what I commented on, that there are systems within systems that will get completely screwed up (somehow) by introducing any sort of billing pyramid.

I just want to hear a specific example because, no offense, it just seems really, really weird that billing-solutions-incorporated has been mystified by SIMU as to how they can't do what seems to me, and everyone else here, as simple pricing expansions.

Edit: Maybe it is that complicated, I just want to see a god-damn spelled-out exhibition of what he alleges is messing things up.

[BriarFox]

He's said, at least from what I commented on, that there are systems within systems that will get completely screwed up (somehow) by introducing any sort of billing pyramid.

I just want to hear a specific example because, no offense, it just seems really, really weird that billing-solutions-incorporated has been mystified by SIMU as to how they can't do what seems to me, and everyone else here, as simple pricing expansions.

Edit: Maybe it is that complicated, I just want to see a god-damn spelled-out exhibition of what he alleges is messing things up.

Though from his description, Simu seems to have tried to work out a new billing solution, I expect the actual problems are:

1) They want too much from a simple billing program.
2) They're understaffed and underfunded for what they need.
3) They're incompetent.

I'm putting most of the weight on #3.

[phantasm]

Its likely they tried to do something much more complex and unneeded and then realized how difficult that unnecessary and not even wanted thing would be so gave up entirely on the project.
Now when they see an elegant and simple solution, they will be all offended that someone else came up with it and rule it out as impossible.
Or maybe this will be like HJ and while trying to create micro transactions in GS they will create a billing system that is better than anything anyone imagined and start selling licenses to every fortune 500 company in the world for billions in profit.

[Warriorbird]

it would be a short term shot in the arm for them, but long term financial growth and player base is what they need.

Not really. Whatley just needs to find more suckers who will code him stuff for free that he can license for lots of money.

I get tired of hearing why Simu can't do things. Awesome companies tend to focus on how they actually can do things.

I'd like to see a decent forum format.
I'd like to see microtransactions.

I think they're both more doable than has been stated.

[SpiffyJr]

Not really. Whatley just needs to find more suckers who will code him stuff for free that he can license for lots of money.

I get tired of hearing why Simu can't do things. Awesome companies tend to focus on how they actually can do things.

I'd like to see a decent forum format.
I'd like to see microtransactions.

I think they're both more doable than has been stated.

Any PHP junkie could hack up SMF/phpBB/VB to integrate into other systems. Not having a decent forum is complete and utter crapola.

[pabstblueribbon]

Ladies and gentlemen, the heart of customer service - if you don't like what we propose, you're an idiot.The point isn't to get an alteration, the point is to get my alteration. I would definitely pay five dollars for the perfect alteration for my character. Five dollars is only about 20 minutes worth of work for me, and it takes way more than 20 minutes to have a reasonable certainty of attaining an alteration.

Well, most people do get their alteration how they want it, sometimes its unfortunate.

I don't really see how that has anything to do with a micro-transactions world cheapening the gameplay ala WoW.

[Methais]

I'd be for micro-transactions if they made Prime accounts free.

[Durgrimst]

I didn't read this whole thread but, to me the easiest way would be to alter the GoA system, only you are buying months of premie service and get the benefits instantly.