Questions from a sort-of-new Paladin

[Elsymir]

I've been playing for about six weeks or a month now, and I finally registered for the boards to ask a few questions. I a Giantess Paladin, Polearm trained, skills set below:

2x Physical Training
2x Armor Use
2x Polearm Training
1x Dodging
1x Combat Maneuvers
1x Harness Mana
1x Climbing
1x Swimming
1x Paladin Circle

Here are the questions:
1: As a Giantman, what's my best choice for a weapon? I'm currently using a 4x Naginata-Base Naginata I was given by a friend when I started. Would a Lance be a better choice given its higher Damage factors, or will th extra Round Time I accrue using one (if i understand how it works correctly) not be worth it?

2: As far as weapoins go, again, What am I looking for in a weapon. Sanctify will give me a holy weapon which plasma flares already, but Do I want another flare? Crit Weighting? Damage Weighting? How high of an enchant is "high enough" reasonably?

3: Armor. I'm currently using 4x Brig. I should be wearing Augmented Chain by 40 and Plate by 60 the way I plan on training. Should I again, just accept the slightly higher RTs in favor of superior protection? And what am I looking for in armor, Damage padding vs Critical padding?

4: Final question - how in the blue hell do people make the silvcer that they do? does it just get progressively easier as you get older? Most of the items I'd think would be perfect are so out of my current budget (a mere 1.5M) I can barely imagine owning them.

Thanks for the help, training suggestions always welcome.

[Androidpk]

1. Go with a lance.

2. If you use a weapon that already has flares or weighting then 1625 will not give you plasma flares.

3. You should be wearing MBP by 40.

4. As you get older your silver making abilities will rise pretty fast.

If you aren't dead set against swinging a polearm I would highly suggest using a maul instead. Great damage and they're pretty fast.

Make sure you join Sunfist.

[Elsymir]

1. Go with a lance.

Will I see an increased RT then? I'm assuming it will be nearly six or seven seconds


2. If you use a weapon that already has flares or weighting then 1625 will not give you plasma flares.

Which flares would you recommend then? The plasma from 1625 or a different one?


3. You should be wearing MBP by 40.

How does armor work that doesn't protect the other parts of my body? I never quite got the grip of that. Is it not such a big deal that I should get in MBP ASAP?


Make sure you join Sunfist.
This group significantly better than Voln? Zul Logoth is in the ass middle of nowhere and I find myself hunting undead a lot. What does this group bring to the table?

[AestheticLife]

Honestly? I would be perfectly content with a naginata if I were you. They hit like trucks as it is, and a Paladin's AS can really take advantage of it.

Lances will bring high-end crits to the table, but they are significantly slower until you can properly train into one (stats, mostly). If you supply your own off-class spells via mage rechargables or whatnot, it becomes much less of a problem.

Armor protects the designated portion of your body with the set protection, and any would-be exposed portion of the body with one less tier's protection. Metal Breastplate would grant chain protection everywhere else, for instance.

MBP is very, very nice for the gap leading up to full plate. It beats the stuffing out of brig, and is worth working towards early on.

annnd no idea about Sunfist vs. Voln, but it seems it would be better. From what I understand, you only need to go to Zul to join, then they have Sunfist folk elsewhere to see for ranks and tasks.

[Androidpk]

You'll swing a lance slower than other weapons, but you won't have to swing as many times to kill something. By the time RT becomes important you should be down to 5 or 6 seconds anyways. If you want flares on your weapon you're better off with 1625 plasma flares as they can flare twice on one swing.

Sunfist, IMO, is hands down the best choice. Being able to add heavy crit padding to your armor and heavy crit weighting to your weapon is badass.

[AestheticLife]

A weighted lance = redundant. A weighted naginata = even more truck-like smacking goodness.

Just saying!

[mgoddess]

Best you can get with Giantman AGI/DEX is 3 seconds off the swing RT. So, with a lance and max (non-enhanced) AGI/DEX, you'll be able to get 6-second swing-times.

Whether you want the better DF on the Lance, or the better AvD on the naginata is up to you. Both work well, in my experience.

[Elsymir]

I guess since I'm already weapon speced for Naginatas I'll stick with them.

For training, should I at some point try to force a little MIU for self-buffing? What should I be fighting at 23? What levels should my lores be at, optimally (when i start training them, prolly around 40). At my level, what sort of weapon and armor should i be using? Is a 4x nagi and 4x brig the way to go, or should I scrounge up some 4x chainmail?

[Bhuryn]

25 religion lore should be your first lore threshold to go after. I am a giant and the 6 second RT on lances really started to annoy me after a few years so I switched to a maul. I really miss charge, but mauls are ridiculous.

[Elsymir]

This is the training Scheme I came up with dur5ing a boring meeting today:

1-40
2x Armor Use
2x Polearm Use
2x Physical Training
1x Dodging
1x Combat Maneuvers
1x Climbing
1x Swimming
1x Harness Power
1x Paladin Circle

40-60
3x Armor Use
2x Polearm Use
2x Physical Training
1x Dodging
1x Combat Maneuvers
1x Mana Sharing: Spirit
2x Perception
1x "Lore"

60-100
2x Polearm Use
2x Physical Training
1x Dodging
1x Multiopponent Combat
2x Combat Maneuvers
3x "Lore"


I think this all works out correctly pointwise, but I'm not entirely sure. "Lore" is 25 religon ranks first, and then the other 85 into whatever I feel like. Suggestions?
2x Combat Maneuvers

[TheLastShamurai]

I'd put at least 50 of those Lore ranks into Summoning.

[mgoddess]

You only need 15-20 ranks of Climbing and Swimming until you reach cap, unless you plan on traversing the trail between Vaalor and OTF (which bypasses the ferry).

Unless you plan on using 1640 and raising people, 20 ranks of mana share is fairly useless (unless you really, really, really want to send your spirit mana to other spirit casters).

Also, I'd suggest getting up to 120, for the extra DS and TD the minor spirit circle gives.

You can drop back the Physical Fitness to 1.5x per level, for some extra TP's to spend in other places.

Pick up some Magic Item Use and make friends with a wizard who can imbed the basic 414/406/401/503/509 spells. Since you aren't using a shield and only 1x Dodging, the extra DS will be helpful.

Also, if your going for full plate, you want 150 ranks of Armor Use (the 10 extra is to reduce spell hindrance to the minimum (13%?)).

[Bhuryn]

since no one has done it yet:

Reroll bard.

[Elsymir]

You only need 15-20 ranks of Climbing and Swimming until you reach cap, unless you plan on traversing the trail between Vaalor and OTF (which bypasses the ferry).

Noted. I was told 40 ranks of Climbing/Swimming/perception. Would you say this is not required? if so, only 20 ranks of perception as well, or...?


Unless you plan on using 1640 and raising people

Which I do, so that makes it easy.



Also, I'd suggest getting up to 120, for the extra DS and TD the minor spirit circle gives.

Are all the MTP worth spells I can get theoretically from any Spirit caster?


You can drop back the Physical Fitness to 1.5x per level, for some extra TP's to spend in other places.

Where do you suggest? Between climbing/swimming/PF I gain about 7 physical points.


Pick up some Magic Item Use and make friends with a wizard who can imbed the basic 414/406/401/503/509 spells. Since you aren't using a shield and only 1x Dodging, the extra DS will be helpful.

I've got a few wizards I regularly poke for spells now, yeah. How much MIU do you suggest?

[Bhuryn]

You're going to find out that if you want to meet the important thresholds earlier (like pre-70) you are going to have to sacrifice some of the fluffy stuff in order to do it. Paladins are extremely tight on points early on.

I would suggest 0 MIU/AS unless you plan on hunting in spellburst areas or need haste imbeds. Spend the points on things that matter more like armor use, cm, 1600s,etc.

The most important thresholds to hit in my opinion (outside of the obvious training requirements like 2x weapon, 1x+ cm, etc) first are:

1625 for sanctify
150 armor for FP
1635 for beseech
25 religion lore
120 for lesser shroud

Everything else is really secondary/rp/preference. I had full plate, 1635, 120, over 1x cm, 2x pt, 2x thw, enough climb/swim/percep/25religion/11summoning/1xhp/etc at 57 because I didn't spend points on things that weren't critical to my paladin. If you want to take it slow and train all the ancillary skills you can, just realize it will push out things like FP.

[thefarmer]

The things I consider vital to a paladin, in order of importance.

1635 (at level 35)
150 armor ranks (2x until, or 3x if you have a really nice set of FP waiting)
1x+ CM
1x+ PF
25 Religion lore
120 by level 60 (which is only useful self-cast)

[Androidpk]

MBP > FP

[Elsymir]

im filtered at work, so can someone give me a fast runethrough of what makes 120 worth the 19 ranks before it?

[Bhuryn]

Duration: 1200 seconds + 60 seconds for every Minor Spiritual rank known; cumulative

Type: Defense

This self-cast spell is similar to Spirit Defense except the caster appears to be a minor god (an illusion). The caster receives a bonus of +15 to Defense Strength (Melee, Ranged, and Bolt DS), +1 for every two Minor Spiritual spell ranks known beyond 20. It also provides a +20 bonus to Spiritual Target Defense (TD).

Due to the increasing bonuses of this spell, the mana cost is a base of 20, +1 for every 3 additional DS over the initial +15 DS.

Training in Spiritual Lore, Blessings enables Lesser Shroud to be cast upon others, briefly; the duration is 2 minutes and requires 60 ranks of Spiritual Lore, Blessings.
Overtraining in Minor Spiritual spell ranks does not yield additional bonus past the caster's level.

[Bhuryn]

MBP > FP

As much as I love web, i've actually considered looking for a good MBP.

[mgoddess]

im filtered at work, so can someone give me a fast runethrough of what makes 120 worth the 19 ranks before it?
101: +10 bDS, +10 sTD
102: (with 20 ranks in MnS) +29 DS, -29 AS, boost to standard creature maneuvers
103: +10 DS
107: +25 bDS, +15 sTD
108: Unstun
110: Unbalance (good attack spell, against critters that don't where plate)
112: Water walking
113: Undisease
114: Unpoison
116: Locate
117: +75 AS
120: +15 DS, +20 sTD

Total (w/o 102): +25 DS, +35 (additional) bDS, +45 sTD, +75 AS
Total (w/102): +54 DS, +35 (additional) bDS, +45 sTD, +46 AS

At level 61, with 20 ranks in MnS, my gal uses Unbalance (110) pretty consistently. The only critters she has a problem with are Harbingers (who wear MBP).

[Bhuryn]

Why would you use unbalance when you can use DS? I also wouldn't count spirit strike in there since I doubt many people can run it consistently.

[mgoddess]

Why would you use unbalance when you can use DS?
Because, at least in my experience, Unbalance has a much better chance of at least stunning creatures, as well as knocking 'em over.

[mgoddess]

(red) Questions from a... 04-13-2010 04:43 PM Are you female or just retarded? You are terrible at this game and should stop posting in advice threads.

Yes, in fact, I am female. However, that has absolutely no bearing on the advice that I give, which I give as a player who has played a Paladin. Maybe you should sign your rep next time, so I know who to call a douchebag?


{red} Questions from a... 04-13-2010 05:06 PM One who can't speak english properly shouldn't be giving advice. Plus girls suck at GSIV.

One who can't speak English correctly? LMAO.

Plus, girls don't suck at GSIV.

[Androidpk]

Plus, girls don't suck at GSIV.

Not even in the catacombs??

[thefarmer]

MBP > FP

Not really, no. MBP in certain situations can be more useful, but overall I still put FP over MBP.


As much as I love web, i've actually considered looking for a good MBP.

What's web have to do with MBP over FP? What am I missing?

[Androidpk]

MBP is superior if you plan on using spiritual spells a lot.

[thefarmer]

MBP is superior if you plan on using spiritual spells a lot.

I use the 100 circle just fine in fullplate.

[Mechwarrior1]

I use the 100 circle just fine in fullplate.

MBP is nice if you need to cast a minor spirit ASAP in combat and the dodge/maneuver penalty is more managble. I hunt bandits, OTF and Nelemar in a set of plain 6x MBP.

But like Farmer says, FP works just fine if you have the supporting lores to get minimal hinderance with Faith's Clarity. For the rift I go full plate for the better CVA and better protection from the errant Destroyer swing. The FP I use is 8x max lightened DCP.

Best case is a post-cap push on out to 290 ranks to cast minor spirit with minimal hinderance in FP without Faith's Clarity, but only a handful of paladins have achieved that (Menos, Saber, and probably a few others).

[Bhuryn]

What's web have to do with MBP over FP? What am I missing?

I can cast fine with 1603, i just hate having to cast it first.

[Elsymir]

Can someone explain the idea of post-cap to me? I'm a little lost on it.

Also - won't going 60 levels on spells hurt my DFRedux? Or is it not really a concern.

Also, if someone could explain the idea of DFRedux to me, that would probably be helpful too >.>

[Mechwarrior1]

Can someone explain the idea of post-cap to me? I'm a little lost on it.

Also - won't going 60 levels on spells hurt my DFRedux? Or is it not really a concern.

Also, if someone could explain the idea of DFRedux to me, that would probably be helpful too >.>


1. After you hit level 100, you can continue to earn training points at the rate of 1 mental and 1 physical for every 2500 XP and can spend these points on skills up to the max for level 100 (i.e. 202 ranks if you could double train in a skill).

2. Not really, no. I have 100 spell ranks and it feels the same as when I had 55.

3. DFredux in laymans term is a lessening of raw damage taken from a physical attack based on the robustness of your physical training regime. Spell training less than 1x per level reduces this somewhat and spell training past 1x per level a reduces redux great deal.

[Elsymir]

Good stuff. Thanks for all the help everyone.
And a special thanks to the negative rep i got for the thread, saying I could find all this stuff on the General Forums, which are of course blocked where I work by the filter.

[JohnDoe]

You're going to find out that if you want to meet the important thresholds earlier (like pre-70) you are going to have to sacrifice some of the fluffy stuff in order to do it. Paladins are extremely tight on points early on.

I would suggest 0 MIU/AS unless you plan on hunting in spellburst areas or need haste imbeds. Spend the points on things that matter more like armor use, cm, 1600s,etc.

The most important thresholds to hit in my opinion (outside of the obvious training requirements like 2x weapon, 1x+ cm, etc) first are:

1625 for sanctify
150 armor for FP
1635 for beseech
25 religion lore
120 for lesser shroud

Everything else is really secondary/rp/preference. I had full plate, 1635, 120, over 1x cm, 2x pt, 2x thw, enough climb/swim/percep/25religion/11summoning/1xhp/etc at 57 because I didn't spend points on things that weren't critical to my paladin. If you want to take it slow and train all the ancillary skills you can, just realize it will push out things like FP.


The things I consider vital to a paladin, in order of importance.

1635 (at level 35)
150 armor ranks (2x until, or 3x if you have a really nice set of FP waiting)
1x+ CM
1x+ PF
25 Religion lore
120 by level 60 (which is only useful self-cast)

Farmer and Bhuryn, can you guys post your stat allocation and training plans and/or send it to me via PM. I'm coming to the close of my 30 day instant migration in shattered and am curious as to how you trained your paladins. I'm a dwarf, using two handers (contemplating polearms, but don't think I can get the right AGI/DEX), and am roughly level ~30. I usually take the approach of training in the core things first and throwing out the "frilly" items - so what you guys are suggesting seems inline with what I'm thinking.

[Gladrelton Enetho]

...what's mbp?

[AnticorRifling]

Metal Breastplate...

[Gladrelton Enetho]

ah kay