Nodding *grumbles*

[Celexei]

Alright, was at the top of my mind so i figured I'd piss some people off. Nodding....seen as most empaths as the only way to go..now i understand this in smaller quieter places such as Voln, and surrounding cities, but TSC? come on, my empath gets in where she can and that doesn't consist of any nodding. I've been called a vulture, had other empaths threaten me and such, but personally i believe TSC is too busy a place for nodding, the patients come in expecting to get healed, some don't have the time for nodding there on there last pulse of blood and need the healing now. As soon as i can i start healing for whoever calls for it, and yes i do acknowledge those that nod, and if i accidently start healing in on theres i back off and apologize. Most that i've found are friendly about the whole issue, i was taught to be an empath by a very good friend that started as an empath before half the High Lords in the lands quit pissin there pants, so i tend to stick with the old unwritten empathetic code...I know this issue is very contriversial just wanted to see some opinions from others out there.

[J-Tech]

nodding? Like nodding your head? I don't understand...

J.T.

[Artha]

some don't have the time for nodding there on there last pulse of blood and need the healing now.

Then they deserve to die. Everyone should have at least a few bites of acantha at all times.

[J-Tech]

Oh, you mean nodding to the person when they ask for healing? If so i understand now, but i don't understand why someone would trip if you didnt nod to the person before healing? There must be some really dumb fuckin empaths out there.

J.T.

[DeV]

I never did understand when the nodding took effect and why. But being as Im not an Empath I just like to get healed regardless of who does it when I require it.

[HarmNone]

I imagine the people who are trying to initiate nodding in TSC are just trying to stop the place from being the meat market it has come to be. In the current Elanthia, I think they are fighting a losing battle. I do understand where they are coming from, though.

HarmNone

[Vesi]

Originally posted by Artha

some don't have the time for nodding there on there last pulse of blood and need the healing now.

Then they deserve to die. Everyone should have at least a few bites of acantha at all times.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I think nodding is a good thing. I know I used to hate going to TSC and ask for healing because I would get several different empaths healing me at once. It was like a race. I would just tip the first empath that healed me. I was sort of glad to see the nodding going on lately (not that I'm in the Landing that much). I know it's not the 'old' way... but unfortunately the vultures made it this way.

Vesi

[HarmNone]

I always felt as you did, Vesi. The only difference was, I refused to tip the first empath to jump on me! Of course, it was not as bad back then as I understand it to be now. I feel the pain of the decent, non-greedy empaths, and of those who would like to be healed with some form of dignity.

It is as much the fault of the wounded, who have come to expect instant healing without any interaction, as of the greedy empaths who care for nothing but getting that experience. The whole thing is just a bloody mess now.

Were I playing today, my ranger would use herbs and ignore the empaths altogether. Just before I quit, when things were starting to go awry, I would only tolerate certain empaths healing my characters, my mother's empath being one of them.

HarmNone, disgusted by it all

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by HarmNone
I always felt as you did, Vesi. The only difference was, I refused to tip the first empath to jump on me! Of course, it was not as bad back then as I understand it to be now. I feel the pain of the decent, non-greedy empaths, and of those who would like to be healed with some form of dignity.

It is as much the fault of the wounded, who have come to expect instant healing without any interaction, as of the greedy empaths who care for nothing but getting that experience. The whole thing is just a bloody mess now.

Were I playing today, my ranger would use herbs and ignore the empaths altogether. Just before I quit, when things were starting to go awry, I would only tolerate certain empaths healing my characters, my mother's empath being one of them.

HarmNone, disgusted by it all

You know, its funny you mention that. Cause I've noticed as of late, getting healed in TSC is a pain. I've stood there for 15 min asking to be healed and been completely ignored. CT was completely ignored a few days back. Its like..they choose not to even notice some people.

Its not like Adredrin does stuff to NOT be healed. I tip well, I'm nice to the people that heal me. The only thing I can think of that they would have to be upset, is I refuse to tip 3 people when they all pounce on me and strip the wounds. I normally look at them all, *assume* who the youngest is level wise, and tip that person.

-Adredrin

[HarmNone]

Heh. A goodly number of them may have been AFK, Adredrin. For a surprising number of people, the game is no longer about roleplaying, or interacting with others, or even about fun. It is about getting to the highest level in the shortest possible time. I would think the script healers would get you, though. :D

HarmNone wishes it was not as it is

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Heh. A goodly number of them may have been AFK, Adredrin. For a surprising number of people, the game is no longer about roleplaying, or interacting with others, or even about fun. It is about getting to the highest level in the shortest possible time. I would think the script healers would get you, though. :D

HarmNone wishes it was not as it is

Yaknow..I used to be that way. I was always trying to power level, and get high level n stuff. Now that I'm 60ish..I find myself more bored with hunting then anything else. Its times like this I wish Adredrin was a class with a sub-ablitiy. Being able to kill most anything is great..when you actually feel like it.

[J-Tech]

Originally posted by HarmNone
The whole thing is just a bloody mess now.


Was that a pun? hehehe.

J.T.

[HarmNone]

Hee! It was not intended to be, John, but I was not as astute as you! :D

HarmNone missed that one

[J-Tech]

:D - I just happen to notice the things that others happen not to.

J.T.

[Edited on 3-27-2004 by J-Tech]

[TheEschaton]

Me, I'm of the opinion that nodding is nowhere near enough.


This is why my empath refuses to heal, roundly lectures people on self-dependence (as he calls it, the "True Empathy"), and teaches herb lore to the ones who really can't seem to deal. I think my empath is kinda conservative!

-TheE-

[Celexei]

my empath is young still, i don't do it for the exp, cause if i wanted that i'd go hunt or so, i just heal because hell...its what an empath does, i don't expect a tip, its nice but i don't expect it....i just love gettin the people healed up and out back to hunt or whatever there doing again...i get SOOO much contraversy on this issue but i thought i'd just share with the rest of yA.

[Killer Kitten]

Frankly there is no winning with this issue.
When I first started playing, the empaths who mentored my character told me 'When a person comes into the room look at them. If they have wounds heal them.'
I never healed at TSC or the front desk because I was not quick enough. By the time I'd looked at a person and typed trans person area the wounds were gone and I was left meditating over a healed person and feeling like an idiot.
I mostly hunted things that were well below my level (because anything near my level would either kill me or be impossible to hit) and healed people I ran across in the wild.
When I could finally fog I was able to heal more consistently because I could fog out to people and not have to compete with the crowds of speedy empaths in all of the popular healing spots. My pattern was to hunt for a couple of days for 0 learning to make favor enough to fog for a day or two and get myself some learning.
While this was happening the lands were undergoing a change in relation to empaths and healing. Where people used to be glad to see an empath healers were just as likely to be greeted with insults and contempt. The word vulture was heard more and more often. People that used to beam and tip when healed started calling names and threatening healers with great physical harm.
Yes there were a lot of empaths who rocketed from 0 to 100 in an eyeblink. Of course there were also more than a few clerics, wizards, rogues, rangers, sorcerers, bards and warriors who did the same thing. For some reason people were fine with that because these characters were hunting for their learning. I used to hang out with a sorcerer who accumulated 2 to 3 levels for every level I gained. I don't remember anybody calling him names.
Empaths were the only class that was so deeply dependant upon interacting with other adventurers for advancement of their characters. We didn't design ourselves this way, in fact the empath boards were utterly boring because every post came down to the same thing: 'Give us another way to learn!'. Some empaths were indeed real robohealers, just as a great many members of other professions were robohunters. All the rules, customs, and game mechanics that were created by players and staff pretty much served to penalize the players of empaths who actually tried to be kinder, gentler and more well roleplayed healers. The robo healers just kept on with what they were doing, and the only real difference I see is that the healer, once a revered and welcomed addition to any gathering, is now categorized as lower than orc piss.
Many people nowadays carry herbs and love nothing more than to sit and eat them in an area where several empaths are competing for what few healing opportunities walk in. They slowly munch their herbs, declining the empaths who obey the custom du jour of asking if they'd like healed and hoping like hell that some poor idiot will heal one of their wounds so they can tear the guy a new one.
I healed for two years with a character who was capped and incapable of learning. The whole time 90% of the injured I attended to acted as if they were doing me the favor.
Healing was always a real roleplay thing with me. My character was driven by her innate natural abilities to heal, for her taking wounds was like smoking crack, once she started binging it felt way too good to stop. I picked that way to roleplay a healer because doing it for experience was pretty OOC and healing the wounded despite suffering great physical agony in the process made me feel too much like Lady Freaking Bountiful granting favors to the masses. Sure I would 'powerheal'. Ever see a crackhead going at his pipe? He's not taking turns or being nice or minding his manners, he's in the grip of his addiction and it is driving him, not the other way around.
Maybe that's why I don't do much healing anymore, even though I can learn again. We reformed addicts tend to shy away from being what we once were, for fear of losing what we've now become.
Where am I going with these musings? Noplace in particular, just jotting down my thoughts as they occur to me.

Kimm/Tilone

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone...my mother's empath being one of them.

Who did she play?

Raven

[Celexei]

MMMmmm crack and empaths......good mix

[TheEschaton]

An empath who thinks (s)he is or ever was dependent on anyone else for their own advancement, just wasn't trying enough.

The reason they COULDN'T hunt is because Legend empaths would have 20 ranks of weapons, just to get the most efficient parry before diminishing returns kicked in hard. Thus, they HAD to stay in town, to heal, and were reviled because (besides maybe sorcs when they were the uber profession) they were A) the easiest profession to level, and plus, they never had to leave town to do it.

The empath profession brought their own demise on their own head. Back in the day, we didn't expect to be healed as soon as we walked in. We were expecting to sit there with bandaged wounds, and, if we were lucky enough, scrape enough silvers together to get some herbs or visit Surtey. Then, the vultures kicked in, and people have become spoiled.

However....the Revolution will not be televised.

-TheE-

[Sirinna]

I agree there need to be some kind of acknowledgement before healing. However, this does not happen, and with the current system I don't think it will ever work, especially in Landing's TSC. It also really depends on which empaths are there at what time of the day/night.

For example... Once, I was called a vulture for healing without nodding... and was told off and asked to nod. Two hours later, after adding nodding to my healing regime, I was too slow to get any healing or learning... so I add the nodding into my speed heal script and was reported for scripting by a bloody idoit...
Its a no win situation...

Now, I just bind/silence the jerks that whine at my healing style.

[Celexei]

LOL entertaining indeed....i've found not nodding to work the best...great contreversy but i get to bitch back, and i get my point proven, i have nothing against any way though i just do it my way

[Miss X]

I never heal in TSC in landing because I think empaths who dont nod or at least aknowledge their patients are rude, every time I heal there the other empaths show no respect for each other and just snatch wounds from whoever. I also find in Landing empaths love to bind and silence people all the time, I never do this because I think its probably the single most annoying thing that an empath can do. Silencing someone because they complain about you is retarded, people only do it when they are too dumb to win an argument with words.

If you are anywhere else other than TSC and you don't nod then expect me to comment on your rudeness, it takes a second to nod to someone, its no big deal. I love healing in Illistim because the empaths are all so polite and nice, it rocks compared to Landing. :)

[Killer Kitten]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
An empath who thinks (s)he is or ever was dependent on anyone else for their own advancement, just wasn't trying enough.

The reason they COULDN'T hunt is because Legend empaths would have 20 ranks of weapons, just to get the most efficient parry before diminishing returns kicked in hard. Thus, they HAD to stay in town, to heal, and were reviled because (besides maybe sorcs when they were the uber profession) they were A) the easiest profession to level, and plus, they never had to leave town to do it.

The empath profession brought their own demise on their own head. Back in the day, we didn't expect to be healed as soon as we walked in. We were expecting to sit there with bandaged wounds, and, if we were lucky enough, scrape enough silvers together to get some herbs or visit Surtey. Then, the vultures kicked in, and people have become spoiled.

However....the Revolution will not be televised.

-TheE-

Actually the reason we COULDN'T hunt is because we could only single train in weapon and shield. Combat manuvers were ridiculously expensive and our one kill spell was Unbalance. Fire spirit was just too weak given that we could only single in spell aiming. Many of us learned to use twisted and lead wands quite well, but losing that parry defense from a weapon to stand there waving a wand meant getting nailed bigtime if something else wandered into the room. Also, because those spells weren't from any spell circle we were versed in like age critters had an easy time warding us.

Most of us found group hunting to be the most effective way to learn from hunting, but we were still forced to underhunt in order to be able to actually hit what we were swinging at. Binding would lower the critters defenses, but at 14 mana a pop, plus extra pops for those times the critters would ward us, this was not always a viable option. It also got really old having every hunt cut short because the group had to drag your dead self back to town. After awhile you'd find your friends forgetting to invite you along because you'd ruin every hunt by dying.

My way of advancing by hunting was not an uncommon one among empaths. I'd go out with my friends and we'd hunt until they were all fried. Then we'd rest at a node and I would heal while they unfried. When they were clear it was back to the hunt, and I would unfry and heal down in the field while they got toasty again. This worked great unless there was another empath or three at the node. On those frequent occasions I would just have fun with my friends and live with never getting past fresh and clear.

That is the real source of 'vulture' empaths in a nutshell. The only real way to advance at a similar rate to other professions was for an empath to heal as agressively as the other professions hunted. The supply of critters to kill is pretty much unlimited. The supply of wounds is not, and to heal is to compete directly with other healers for this finite supply of wounds. The healer who got the most wounds advanced fastest and farthest. Advancing meant being able to keep up with your friends as they ventured into newer and more difficult hunting grounds. Nobody wants to be left behind to wander the old hunting area alone while their friends are out having new adventures in a place you can't get to yet.

I think that the expansion of the game and the empath spell circle have helped relieve some of the pressure/competition between empaths by providing a broader variety of places to heal and by giving empaths a viable alternative to healing for advancement. I know my empath character is now able to hunt critters she can learn from without always ending up dead, and I see more and more empaths who spend the majority of their time out hunting critters instead of wounds. I've also seen a trend towards acknowledging patients as people instead of a bundle of injuries/experience, even in the mass of confusion that is TSC. Empathy used to be a very honored profession, I can remember when stealing from or harming an empath or cleric meant an outraged mob hunting down the offender. It would be nice to see some of that respect for healers return to the lands.

Kimm/Tilone

[Parkbandit]

Some of my most favorite conflicts were years ago with my empath. Empaths can be real bitches.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I got a lvl 35 empath in GS3 where "couldn't hunt" apparently didn't apply to me. He was singled in two handers, and hunted on his own half the time in half plate swinging at 12 seconds. He was also not a product of reallocation or anything else, he's been around for years. He's never sat and healed folks in any town and probably 95% of his advancement was through hunting.

I disagree that hunting wasn't possible, you just had to pick your slower or critable creatures (or those he could bind).

[AnticorRifling]

I only let a few empaths heal me and that's only because they take the time to see what's wrong not just .heal Anti or whatever.
I'd rather go to the healer tent then let a vulture get me.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
I got a lvl 35 empath in GS3 where "couldn't hunt" apparently didn't apply to me. He was singled in two handers, and hunted on his own half the time in half plate swinging at 12 seconds. He was also not a product of reallocation or anything else, he's been around for years. He's never sat and healed folks in any town and probably 95% of his advancement was through hunting.

I disagree that hunting wasn't possible, you just had to pick your slower or critable creatures (or those he could bind).

Dwarf that used a claidh? If so I saw you rock kiramon.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yeah, thats him

[Miss X]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I only let a few empaths heal me and that's only because they take the time to see what's wrong not just .heal Anti or whatever.
I'd rather go to the healer tent then let a vulture get me.

w00t. I feel special! ;)

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Yeah, thats him

I'll agree with you then. He rocked.

[TheEschaton]

Actually the reason we COULDN'T hunt is because we could only single train in weapon and shield.

Clerics can only do that much, and I know quite a few clerics who came up by the sword.

And a few empaths.

And my two handed empath is only 21 trains, but he rocks those Grutik in Zul Logoth. It's all about picking your challenges.

-TheE-

[Celexei]

I wanna see the two handed dwarf puff....thats somethin a bit rare. still around?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

yeah, when I get home I'll grab some of him fighting and his skills and stuff

[Celexei]

i might have to follow the little guy around see how he does and all, if ya'd allow

[Killer Kitten]

<<Clerics can only do that much, and I know quite a few clerics who came up by the sword. >>

<<And a few empaths. >>

<<And my two handed empath is only 21 trains, but he rocks those Grutik in Zul Logoth. It's all about picking your challenges. >>

I never said it was impossible, just that the path was unsupported and difficult (and still is, as far as a weapon using empath goes). Clerics could only single train, but they also had more AS and DS spells and they had at least one attack spell. Empaths had the 800 circle, which was entirely devoted to healing spells.

My 22 train empath (edged and shield) also rocks and hunts far more than she heals. I just know from having lived it what lies ahead of her at 32, 42, 52 and 92, and I know there will be frustrating stretches when her only way to get ahead is to heal. Considering the number of 'hunting only' empaths I encounter doing rescues and hopping on patients in healing areas I think I'm probably not alone in hitting these difficult stretches.

Kimm/Tilone

[Celexei]

healing yourself aids in your abilities to hunt, therefor you can prevent yourself from bleeding to death...etc....but we all know that, personally my empath has mainly always healed, but at eight trains i'm getting ready to convert her to a bow, should be interesting

[TheEschaton]

I wanna see the two handed dwarf puff....thats somethin a bit rare. still around?

"Two handed" and "puff" should never be in the same sentence. Please refrain from using them, in the future.


And, well, frankly, if I ever hear the term "puff" to refer to anything but a pastry, I'll immediately put my claid through your eye. My empath is NOT a puff.

-TheE-