Shattered Prop Bets

[AMUSED1]

Discuss/bet of various things Shattered related. And decide on betting amounts so you can pay the winners!

What profession will be the first to cap?
What race will be the first to cap?
What race and profession combo will be the first to cap?
Who will completely master forging first?

[Traelin]

The third questions is answered by the first two.

[pabstblueribbon]

dwarf paladin/warmage combo.

100 brazillion silvers.

[AMUSED1]

The third questions is answered by the first two.

Different bets for each of the first three!

[Zanagodly]

empath will be the first to cap easy.

[Morph]

empath will be the first to cap easy.

agreed.

[Methais]

empath will be the first to cap easy.

^

I'm more interested in what the "Shattered" costumes will look like at Simucon.

$50 to whoever goes dressed up as goatse and posts pics of them with Simu staff.

[Makkah]

There's still a Simucon?

[Methais]

There's still a Simucon?

I think so, but I'm pretty sure it's degenerated to being held on someone's patio or something.

I hope someone starts a fight over some Shattered shenanigans, and that someone just happens to be standing nearby with a video camera.

Extra points if they're in costume. It could possibly be Epic Beard Man II.

[violent femme]

first to do all the things are ones with no JOBS lol

[AMUSED1]

You do realize that since you won't get busted for scripting you can have a job AND do it, right? Logic FTW.

[Methais]

first to do all the things are ones with no JOBS lol

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/ValinKenobi/Forums/worf_facepalm.gif

[violent femme]

I figured that was obvious, I was kidding, why so serious? lol...

[WRoss]

A dwarf empath could easily do all of those. Script forge the first 20 (or however many) levels then go to town healing.

[Deathravin]

A dwarf empath could easily do all of those. Script forge the first 20 (or however many) levels then go to town healing.

No GM interaction.
abuse mechanics ftw. Just have somebody put on some decent armor. Bust out something that isn't likely to cause a death crit, and setup a script to hurt him, heal him, hurt him, heal him, rinse. repeat until level 100

Or have him get nerves and heal that... or a sorcerer 701 himself and heal that...

[WRoss]

No GM interaction.
abuse mechanics ftw. Just have somebody put on some decent armor. Bust out something that isn't likely to cause a death crit, and setup a script to hurt him, heal him, hurt him, heal him, rinse. repeat until level 100

Or have him get nerves and heal that... or a sorcerer 701 himself and heal that...

708 + heal would be the fastest way. 1101 (harm) + 1101 (heal) would be the safest. I've never seen it go above 85 HP in one cast.

[Ugotfaced]

Could also have a sorc /empath team. have the sorc Pain himself or limb disrupt himself. Or both. And then heal him.

[AestheticDeath]

How many people are actually going to use two accounts to abuse the empath healing thing?

And does anyone think they will fix the way that works, to even out how fast different classes can level?

[Liagala]

How many people are actually going to use two accounts to abuse the empath healing thing?

And does anyone think they will fix the way that works, to even out how fast different classes can level?

A lot, and no. They're not going to fix the way anything works, unless it's something required by the regular Prime instance (bugs, new development, etc). People are having a pretty tough time wrapping their heads around the idea that there is no Mommy and Daddy in Shattered. Nothing will be adjusted to make it fair, nothing will be nerfed due to abuse. Gemstone has finally caught up to the interwebs. You either enjoy things the way they are (the way the collective you make them), or you leave. There are no more apron strings to hold onto.

[SpiffyJr]

Wish they did this six months ago before I found Bad Company 2 and Heroes of Newerth.

[Monotonous]

there is no Mommy and Daddy in Shattered. Nothing will be adjusted to make it fair, nothing will be nerfed due to abuse. Gemstone has finally caught up to the interwebs. You either enjoy things the way they are (the way the collective you make them), or you leave. There are no more apron strings to hold onto.
Until something happens to one of the GM's characters and they throw a nerdpower tantrum. Happened in prime plenty of times. The apron strings are there because they all cling to scrub mentalities, and they'll drag the same attitude with them into Shattered.

See the classic article: Playing To Win: The Scrub (http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html)

Although this article is using Street Fighter as an example, it describes 95% of the Gemstone player population (and their GameMaster overlords) in excruciating detail.

[Atlanteax]

Until something happens to one of the GM's characters and they throw a nerdpower tantrum. Happened in prime plenty of times. The apron strings are there because they all cling to scrub mentalities, and they'll drag the same attitude with them into Shattered.

See the classic article: Playing To Win: The Scrub (http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html)

Although this article is using Street Fighter as an example, it describes 95% of the Gemstone player population (and their GameMaster overlords) in excruciating detail.

Wow... so you're comparing the mental attitude of players in an arcade slash & hack game, where battles are less than 1 minute... to a *role-playing* game that unfolds over months and even years?

[Monotonous]

Wow... so you're comparing the mental attitude of players in an arcade slash & hack game, where battles are less than 1 minute... to a *role-playing* game that unfolds over months and even years?
As an illumination of the mentality of Gemstone players? Absolutely. That article is the best possible example you could ever hope to read about the phenomenon.

Concepts like "kill stealing" and "non-roleplay PvP" exist in Gemstone as arbitrary social constructs, and not hard-coded rules. They shouldn't exist in Shattered, but they will, because the scrubs will drag it there with them from Carebear land. GMs will enforce their own arbitrary scrub rules when they think something is "cheap".

[Methais]

Wow... so you're comparing the mental attitude of players in an arcade slash & hack game, where battles are less than 1 minute... to a *role-playing* game that unfolds over months and even years?

The game the article is about doesn't matter with the point of the article itself.

[HJFudge]

That series of articles is entitled Playing to Win for a reason. It has been written to be a guide to winning tournaments and self improvement through exceeding in a competitive environment.

Gemstone is not a competitive environment. It is a cooperative, story based game where you play a role. Sure, you can compete in the game in various ways (who can be the most powerful, the richest, etc.) but the GAME is designed to be played in cooperative groups.

The article does not really apply to Gemstone or players Mentalities. You could MAKE it fit I guess, but it really doesn't.

It's not a tournament or competitive environment, nor should it be.

How does one "win" gemstone, exactly?

[Methais]

That series of articles is entitled Playing to Win for a reason. It has been written to be a guide to winning tournaments and self improvement through exceeding in a competitive environment.

Gemstone is not a competitive environment. It is a cooperative, story based game where you play a role. Sure, you can compete in the game in various ways (who can be the most powerful, the richest, etc.) but the GAME is designed to be played in cooperative groups.

The article does not really apply to Gemstone or players Mentalities. You could MAKE it fit I guess, but it really doesn't.

It's not a tournament or competitive environment, nor should it be.

How does one "win" gemstone, exactly?

It's about the scrub QQ mentality, which can apply to more than just PvP, or even video games altogether.

When I used to read the officials regularly, there were nonstop QQ posts from every profession about how X profession can do Y better than they can and that they'll never be able to do this and that because their class sucks so bad, blah blah blah.

Meanwhile, there's someone else playing the same class/build as the QQer of like level, except they're pwning everything and making millions of coins and basically doing everything the scrub is QQing that he can't do.

The difference is the scrub is running around hunting with 901 because "the other spells cost too much mana, and I like lightning better" while the other guy is running around 1-shotting everything in the face with Immolate. The QQ player is capable of doing all that same stuff, but they'd rather sit around crying all day about how their class sucks instead of changing their playstyle to where they don't die 50 times a day.

It's like using Ice Patch and dying during hunts because you think the messaging is cool, instead of using ewave and killing everything, then blaming it all on wizards and how much they suck.

That article should also be subtitled "...Or Being Too Stupid To Win"

[HJFudge]

I'll concede the point on whining about balance and the mentality involved. I agree with you on that. But that really wasnt what I was referring to.

Monotonous brought up examples such as Kill Stealing and Non-Roleplay PvP as 'arbitrary social constructs', by which I assume he was equating such things to having a Scrub Mentality.

Shattered will have no rules except those you can enforce, and I am SURE there will be kill stealing and non-roleplay pvp and other such things. But trying to equate those who may try to enforce such 'arbitrary social constructs' as Scrubs and QQ'ers is kinda being a scrub yourself.

"Whaaaaaa So and So's character wont let me run around killing indiscriminately! He says I must RP the kill or he'll kill me! SCRUB! HE WONT LET ME DO EXACTLY AS I PLEAAASE."

Gemstone is a social game. Therefore, "arbitrary social constructs" suddenly become a lot less arbitrary.

When I play shattered, if I see someone kill stealing from me, I am going to prevent it. If I see someone going on Killing Rampage of PVP uberness, I am going to try and prevent it.

POLICY tries (and fails largely, in my opinion) to enforce such things in prime.
A well-placed Implosion, Firebolt, or Ambush will enforce such things in Shattered.

[Methais]

I'll concede the point on whining about balance and the mentality involved. I agree with you on that. But that really wasnt what I was referring to.

Monotonous brought up examples such as Kill Stealing and Non-Roleplay PvP as 'arbitrary social constructs', by which I assume he was equating such things to having a Scrub Mentality.

Shattered will have no rules except those you can enforce, and I am SURE there will be kill stealing and non-roleplay pvp and other such things. But trying to equate those who may try to enforce such 'arbitrary social constructs' as Scrubs and QQ'ers is kinda being a scrub yourself.

"Whaaaaaa So and So's character wont let me run around killing indiscriminately! He says I must RP the kill or he'll kill me! SCRUB! HE WONT LET ME DO EXACTLY AS I PLEAAASE."

Gemstone is a social game. Therefore, "arbitrary social constructs" suddenly become a lot less arbitrary.

When I play shattered, if I see someone kill stealing from me, I am going to prevent it. If I see someone going on Killing Rampage of PVP uberness, I am going to try and prevent it.

POLICY tries (and fails largely, in my opinion) to enforce such things in prime.
A well-placed Implosion, Firebolt, or Ambush will enforce such things in Shattered.

Admittedly I didn't really follow much in this thread, but...


I'll concede the point on whining about balance and the mentality involved. I agree with you on that. But that really wasnt what I was referring to.

Chances are the people who fail at GS in my earlier example would probably fail pretty hard at competitive pvp games too.

Plus, in response to your "How do you win at GS?" question -- How do you lose at GS? Especially in post-demonic times.

[Monotonous]

Monotonous brought up examples such as Kill Stealing and Non-Roleplay PvP as 'arbitrary social constructs', by which I assume he was equating such things to having a Scrub Mentality.

...Shattered will have no rules except those you can enforce, and I am SURE When I play shattered, if I see someone kill stealing from me, I am going to prevent it. If I see someone going on Killing Rampage of PVP uberness, I am going to try and prevent it.

POLICY tries (and fails largely, in my opinion) to enforce such things in prime.
A well-placed Implosion, Firebolt, or Ambush will enforce such things in Shattered.
Exactly. You get it. That's why my examples fit. 95% of the population of Gemstone Prime would not fix it themselves like you or I. They run to a GM or the forums and cry about it (whatever flavor of the month the "it" is) instead of either A) using it themselves, or B) figuring out how to beat it or do it better than everyone else.

It has nothing to do with the game, or gaming at all. It has everything to do with the mentality of the player. The same person who bitches about how unfair some attack is in Street Fighter will bitch about how broken some class is in Warcraft or Gemstone, rather than go roll up the character and do it themselves.


Gemstone is not a competitive environment. It is a cooperative, story based game where you play a role.
That is entirely subjective, and inaccurate for a lot of players. Gear acquisition and leveling are very competitive. It's the reason many of us play at all. How is being able to blow some other dude's face off just for the hell of it not competitive?

If you aren't a competitive player using the best scripts, multiple accounts and an aggressive attitude, you're going to quickly find your play experienced defined by the whims of others who aren't afraid to use everything to their advantaged in Shattered.


How does one "win" gemstone, exactly?
Totally up to each player. For me, winning means I'm not the bitch ghost laying on the ground begging for a drag to TSC. You may have another opinion, but it's wrong :)

http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/user/1/10298-86260-shoryukenjpg-468x.jpg

[HJFudge]

"If you aren't a competitive player using the best scripts, multiple accounts and an aggressive attitude, you're going to quickly find your play experienced defined by the whims of others who aren't afraid to use everything to their advantaged in Shattered."

I will disagree with this in particular, except for the part about Attitude. Gemstone Shattered is a copy of the prime instance, and unless its going to be waaaay more crowded then prime, then MA'ers and Super Scripters will not be able to define my play experience unless I let them. Affect it? sure. But I can also affect theirs to varying degrees, if I choose to.

If I find myself in a situation I wont win, I wont fight. I will move. Move, Adapt, or Die. Or Kill the other player.

I just feel that social order will be maintained to a bit higher degree in Shattered than others expect. Sure there will be deviants and murderers, but those of us who dont wanna get randomly pk'ed constantly can make those people who do such things...pay for it :P

[Atlanteax]

I think the biggest thing that is being overlooked is that in Street Fighter and first-person-shooter games, where there is a clearly defined objective ("kill and win" ... move onto the next match and repeat) any notions of "fair play" is impossible to enforce. Nevermind you either can do whatever strategies/techniques you pursue, depending on whether game mechanics allow you to do so or not.

In Gemstone-Shattered, the community *can* enforce their will on outliers. The question of course, is whether the community will be sufficiently motivated to do so, depending on whatever "crime" against the "intentions of the game" is being done by the outliers.

Someone AFK-scripting at a table for exp ... will generate little motivation from the community to deter it (it probably will be condoned instead) ... someone running around killing random people "just because" will find a community that will attempt to retaliate or go further in effectively deterring future incidents.

The general expectation is that bad players, or "scrubs", will just simply wash out of the game. Whereas they would be a QQ-ing thorn in Gemstone-prime.

[Mumblz]

^