CMAN Side by Side update

[Lucos]

The Side by Side CMAN is now available for any profession to train in.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

OMG !!!!!!!!!!

Fucking. Awesome.

Oscuro FTW

[crb]

This, I think, makes Fallen happier than a new sorc spell would.

[AestheticLife]

OMG !!!!!!!!!!

Fucking. Awesome.

Oscuro FTW

That's the first time I've seen you legitimately mark out in years.

[crb]

So... how much of a bonus do you actually get from Side by Side, and does the AS part affect all AS or melee only?

Does cmovement being a prereq mean you have to master it first, or do you merely need equal or greater ranks in it.

[Kitsun]

Need two cmov ranks to train in as much side by side as you want. It only affects melée AS afaik.

I am still trying to wrap my brain around all the training plan changes these CM changes make.

[Nuc]

SBS adds something like 15 or 20 AS if I remember from when Swami and I tested it. It's pretty sick.

[AestheticLife]

Even though I'm usually a hermit, I'll probably get it just in case I actually hunt near/with people in the future. Fun stuff.

[Silvanostar]

sorry, but why are you so excited by this news fallen?

[B2]

He hunts with a partner! She now gets an AS bonus!

[Buckwheet]

For MAing it makes getting that extra +20 melee attack fairly easy now.

[Fallen]

sorry, but why are you so excited by this news fallen?

What B2 said. When I am actively playing GS, I hunt with 1/2 other people at all times. There is now a mechanic that actually reflects and supports the roleplay behind hunting with a skilled partner. I do wish the effects were a bit more substancial, but as it stands now, I am quite pleased with this addition.

[Silvanostar]

hm if sbs only adds melee AS, it seems a bit limited. but i can see how it helps support group play.

i guess i should have waited before i fixskilled my wizard to a more pure build. if this and the cman defense skills had come out a bit sooner i probably would have kept my wizard's polearm build and tried out ma'ing with my wiz/war combo

[ElvenFury]

Last time I tested it, it didn't work with multistrike, which made it pretty useless for my TWC katar shredder.

[Fallen]

Now would be the time to ask it be looked at to include all forms of aplicable AS.

[ElvenFury]

Now would be the time to ask it be looked at to include all forms of aplicable AS.
I agree. I'd raise the mstrike issue myself if I had an active account.

[Fallen]

I agree. I'd raise the mstrike issue myself if I had an active account.

I suppose I can do so, but without squares who currently use the ability chiming in, I don't think it will garner much attention. I am assuming all non-standard AS attacks aren't getting a boost, which would be ...

Multi-strike
Berserk
V'Tull's Fury
Coup Stacking?
Bolt AS
Thrown

It would also be amazing if Side by Side boosted Companion, Swinging Sword, and Animate performance.

[Fallen]

Posted in the CMAN folder. If anyone can back me up when they get the chance it would add a bit more weight to the request.

[Buckwheet]

Doesn't it also provide a defense boost? If you mstrike does your defense go down?

[Fallen]

Doesn't it also provide a defense boost? If you mstrike does your defense go down?

No DS boost that I have heard anyone mention. I wouldn't be opposed to one. A slight maneuver defense/attack boost would be nice too, but I doubt they will ever add anything like that. As far as I know, your DS does not go down after an Mstrike, but there are stamina related penalties for repeatedly Mstriking outside of your cooldown window.

[Buckwheet]

Side by Side gives a boost to Attack Strength (AS) and Defensive Strength (DS) when grouped with others.

Is from the official documentation. But I have never used it to see if that statement is true. I always assumed the DS bonus came from the required two ranks in cmove, and now with that being passive it would make some sense. I was more curious if in the act of the mstrike if it is not applying the combat bonus to your attack you might actually loose any, if there is one, bonus to defense from side by side as well.

[Fallen]

Side by Side gives a boost to Attack Strength (AS) and Defensive Strength (DS) when grouped with others.

Is from the official documentation. But I have never used it to see if that statement is true.

Yeah, I could have sworn I heard of a DS boost associated with the maneuver as well, but no one ever mentions it. I imagine it is extremely limited like the AS portion of the maneuver is as well. Back to the officials I guess.

[Soulpieced]

Description: Side by Side gives a boost to melee Attack Strength and Defensive Strength when grouped with others with the Side By Side skill.

[AKOE!]

If it worked with ranged weapons I would definitely get this.

[AestheticLife]

Someone make it viable for ranged, and every single combat-based character in the game will pick it up.

Get'er dun.

[Asrial]

If it worked with ranged weapons I would definitely get this.I'd also want to see Voln-fu as well.

[crb]

SBS adds something like 15 or 20 AS if I remember from when Swami and I tested it. It's pretty sick.

Is that like for a master or what? Does it depend on number of people in the group.

If I were coding this ability I'd have it give +2 per rank per person in the group, uncapped, because... why not? If someone wants to make a group the Gemstone version of a phalanx, they should receive the benefit.

So if you had 10 masters joined together each would get 10*5*2 = 100 AS/DS benefit.

But.. apparently it doesn't work like that? Just a flat bonus if you have it, regardless of whom you're partnered with?

[AestheticLife]

OR leave variable bonuses determined by the combination of those in your party with the ability.

Of course, that would actually require work and the slightest degree of innovation, so Simu wouldn't be up for the task.

[ElvenFury]

I thought it was 2 AS per YOUR rank in the skill, but it upgrades to 3 per rank if the other person is trained. I don't think I ever tested it with more than one other person on the group.

[Kitsun]

The factors included in the bonus for Side by Side include:
Your # of ranks in Side by Side
# of grouped members
# of group members with CM Training
# of group members with Side by Side training

The cap is +20AS/DS but it is hard to tell what it takes of each factor to get there. Eventually I'm going to have 5 characters, each with ~3 ranks of Side by Side and I just hope I get there.

[Nuc]

As Kitsun said, it is capped, and it takes 3 people to get there, though all 3 don't have to have rank 5. Swami and I hit the cap with 2 at rank 5 and one at rank 2 or 3.

[AKOE!]

I'd also want to see Voln-fu as well.


That was going to be my next question actually. That would also be great.

[Fallen]

The Side by Side CMAN has been updated to apply its AS boost to all melee AS attacks from the open (not hiding). This include the commands ATTACK, KILL, AMBUSH and MSTRIKE, the CMs Berserk, Quickstrike, Spin Attack, Mighty Blow, Staggering Blow and Truehand and the spell V'tull's Fury (1718).

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

This message was originally posted in Hunting and Combat, Combat Maneuvers Discussion. To discuss the above follow the link below.


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[Gnomad]

hotness

[Latrinsorm]

I have a new theory: they (the GMs) are being so gracious and timely with their updates because monks are going to be publicly shelved indefinitely, and they want to build up some goodwill first.

[Gnomad]

I have a new theory: they (the GMs) are being so gracious and timely with their updates because monks are going to be publicly shelved indefinitely, and they want to build up some goodwill first.

Most of the updates have been Oscuro doing tons of bugfixes etc. but no big projects.

which is not to say his updates are not appreciated, but it's not like it's this or E-Lore review

[Bumpur]

Did some Side by Side Testing with Team Side by Side on Teras - 72 warrior, 68 paladin, 68 ranger, all with rank 5 side by side. Warrior is fully double trained in CMAN. Paladin and Ranger are about 1.5x trained in CMAN.

RANGER Testing:
Ranger + Warrior = +12 AS
Ranger + Warrior + Paladin = +17 AS

PALADIN Testing:
Paladin + Warrior = +12 AS
Paladin + Warrior + Ranger = +17 AS

WARRIOR Testing:
Warrior + Ranger = +14 AS
Warrior + Ranger + Paladin = +21 AS

Side by Side all the way!

[SpiffyJr]

Did some Side by Side Testing with Team Side by Side on Teras - 72 warrior, 68 paladin, 68 ranger, all with rank 5 side by side. Warrior is fully double trained in CMAN. Paladin and Ranger are about 1.5x trained in CMAN.

RANGER Testing:
Ranger + Warrior = +12 AS
Ranger + Warrior + Paladin = +17 AS

PALADIN Testing:
Paladin + Warrior = +12 AS
Paladin + Warrior + Ranger = +17 AS

WARRIOR Testing:
Warrior + Ranger = +14 AS
Warrior + Ranger + Paladin = +21 AS

Side by Side all the way!

The first listed would be the group leader?