Think this is true?

[Tendarian]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-12752414,00.html

HILLARY TO RUN IN 2004
Former US first lady Hillary Clinton is planning to enter the US Presidential race in 2004, reports say.

The New York Senator is expected to meet advisers - including her husband and ex-President Bill Clinton - next week to discuss the decision.


I so wish for this to be true,altho im pretty sure skynews is the british version of fox news so who knows maybe its just wishful thinking on their part.

[CrystalTears]

This isn't the first time I hear that, so it's quite possibly true. She's been discussing that for a little while now.

[Skirmisher]

I thought Skynews was an Aussie station.

[imported_Kranar]

The Senator has rejected all rumours that she will be running for President, including a rejection made this morning.

[Ilvane]

I think it's just a bunch of Democrats getting hopeful..heh.

I'd love to see a debate with Hillary and George. Then again, he did win the last election, and Al Gore was much more coherant..:shrugs:

-A

[StrayRogue]

Sky news is English.

PS Bush did not win the Election. He cheated.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Sky news is English.

PS Bush did not win the Election. He cheated.

::snicker::

Yea, he cheated. He threw the whole thing.

Had Gore simply won in his own state...

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

PS Bush did not win the Election. He cheated.

Well much as I wish it were otherwise, it does seem as if he really won thanks to our archaic electoral system.

How someone can earn more votes and yet lose an election is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen in my life.

Be that as it may, until we get the gumption to change it it IS our system.

Bash away on that and I'll gladly join you.

[StrayRogue]

It all had to do with the Florida votes: I'll simplify the facts for you. And I stress FACTS -

Summer 1999 Katherine Harris, Florida secretary of state AND Bush's campaign co-chariman, paid $4 to Database Technologies to go through Florida's voter rolls to take out any "suspected" of being a former fellon.

(Fellons are not allowed to vote, at that time 31% of Black people in Florida could not vote because of this. However, only 90% of the remaining 69% who DID vote were counted. Anyone know the figure of how many Black people living in Florida equating to 10% of the Black Population? Here's a hint - Its in the thousands).

Black Floridians are overwhelmingly Democrats, as Gore recieved votes from over 90% of their 'population'.

Basically, people were not allowed to vote when they should. Why weren't they?

Harris told Database Tech to cast the "net" wide enough to catch all fellons. (I might add that Fellons related to Bush via family or finance were allowed to vote, Bush himself being convicted on a number of occasions). How did this work? Names of fellons was fed into the Database. Harris told the company to include all people with names "similar" to ones on the Fellony list. The manager sent her an email reading, "Programming of this fashion may supply false readings". Harris went along with it anyway.

Before long 173,000 registered voters (non criminals who should have allowed to vote) were permanently wiped from the rolls. In Miami-Dade, Florida's largest county, 66% of the voters removed were black. In Tampa, 54%.

And that, my friends, is just the tip of the iceberg. And, laughably, its all fact.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by StrayRogue

PS Bush did not win the Election. He cheated.

Well much as I wish it were otherwise, it does seem as if he really won thanks to our archaic electoral system.

How someone can earn more votes and yet lose an election is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen in my life.

Be that as it may, until we get the gumption to change it it IS our system.

Bash away on that and I'll gladly join you.

The electorial college isn't a dumb idea. It makes sense and it's actually a good idea. If it was total votes win the election, where would you campaign? Every president would go to all the major cities, NYC, LA, Philadelphia, Detriot, etc. They wouldn't even think or care about the midwest. Why? Because Wyoming has 500,000 people total, why campaign there when you can go to an entire city which has so many more then that? The electorial college makes sure that all states are listened too. It makes sense even though most people don't see it.

[Skirmisher]

I hope you don't think that was why it was instituted.

I'm silly perhaps, I tend to think that people should be allowed to decide whom to vote for and with the system as it now stands, you don't have that right.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I hope you don't think that was why it was instituted.

I'm silly perhaps, I tend to think that people should be allowed to decide whom to vote for and with the system as it now stands, you don't have that right.

Well first off, who cares why it was instituted, it makes sense now. The reason it was put into place was because the states wanted power when they transferred power into the US government. The government had to give the states power or the constitution never would have been signed, and the democracy would have fallen.

Pure democracy's don't work unless the area is very small. Republics (which is what the US is) is how bigger area's handle it. It works, it makes sense, and it makes sure each president goes to all places and not just major populated areas.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Gemstone101

Pure democracy's don't work unless the area is very small. Republics (which is what the US is) is how bigger area's handle it. It works, it makes sense, and it makes sure each president goes to all places and not just major populated areas.

I have a firm grasp on how a representative system works. That's why we elect the House and the Senate. They then represent me on a federal level.

I however never elected anyone to the electoral college to represent me.

[StrayRogue]

I feel, in theory it is a very good system. However, in practice...its another story.

[Scott]

<<<I however never elected anyone to the electoral college to represent me.>>>

When your voting, make sure to look at what you are voting for. It clearly (well it should) say who you are voting for is not the president, but a member of the electorial college who has pledged his vote to the president. Look at the little label, it's right there. You DO elect someone from the electorial college to represent you.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
<<<I however never elected anyone to the electoral college to represent me.>>>

When your voting, make sure to look at what you are voting for. It clearly (well it should) say who you are voting for is not the president, but a member of the electorial college who has pledged his vote to the president. Look at the little label, it's right there. You DO elect someone from the electorial college to represent you.

Correct, I mispoke. What I was meaning was that I am not involved in the selection of those electors. I am not told the name of those electors. They are a nameless faceless group and therefore I am not voting FOR them. How can I vote for a player to be named later?

I reiterate, I would like the ability to decide who I vote for. As it stands now, I do not.

[Scott]

<<<Correct, I mispoke. What I was meaning was that I am not involved in the selection of those electors. I am not told the name of those electors. They are a nameless faceless group and therefore I am not voting FOR them. How can I vote for a player to be named later?

I reiterate, I would like the ability to decide who I vote for. As it stands now, I do not.>>>

There are lots of ups and downs to the current voting style. Most importantly though, right now it makes sure candidates take everyone under consideration, (whether you believe they do or not) they don't just go to all the cities and campaign, they go to states with minuscule amounts of people because 3 electoral votes (the smallest amount a state can have) is very important. I personally believe that if the Electoral College didn't exist, the George Bush/Al Gore election would have been different. The entire campaign and plans would have been different. Bush won like the entire midwest, however he would have campaigned in cities instead of smaller areas and received more votes. The election would have been totally different if there was no electoral college.

[Parkbandit]

Personally.. I think Mrs. Clinton is going to run for President. I do think things in Iraq are not going as smoothly as we all hoped and I do think that the economy hasn't rebounded as much as it should have by now. These make Bush very beatable in 2004.

She and her advisers right now are contemplating whether Bush can be defeated by a Democrat next year or not. If they determine he can be, she'll join the race and immediately be the top candidate. If they feel he will win next year, she won't join the race and will pray for a Bush victory.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
It all had to do with the Florida votes: I'll simplify the facts for you.

He didn't lose the election because of Florida. He didn't carry many states.

And an independant journalistic investigation found that Bush rightly won the election in Florida... with some very liberal newspapers leading the pack.

I do wonder though.. had Gore won the election.. what would he have done after 9-11? Or heck... would 9-11 even happened? Would he have gone into Afganistan? Iraq? Would he have led the patriotism this country experienced in the last part of 2001?

Makes you wonder.

[StrayRogue]

Oh of course. Its all irrellevant now. But the Gore 911 ponderance is a good one. We all know he atleast has a tolerance for religion beyond (nearly fundamental) Christianity.

[Ilvane]

You know, she said she wouldn't run..but maybe she's considering being a vice president to one of these guys..heh.

I'd love either Dean-Clinton or Kerry-Clinton.

:bouncy:

-A

[Parkbandit]

I'd love to see Dean get the nomination. That guy is just so out of the mainstream it's almost funny.

[Parkbandit]

Then again, I would love for Bill to be the first lady as well... but I'm just like that :)

[Ilvane]

Dean at least isn't afraid to say what he really thinks as opposed to some of these guys who are afraid to say anything and be labeled unpatriotic.

I don't know how you all feel about this, but I hate that anytime someone even suggests that the war isn't a good thing, and that we shouldn't have gone yet, or should have asked for International help, they are called "Unamerican", or "Unpatriotic".

Last I checked, the freedom of speech was considered very American and Patriotic.

-A

[draconis nematoda]

The only noteworthy accomplishment Al Gore ever achieved was inventing the internet.

Ray

[StrayRogue]

The internet has been around for nearly half a century. Probably longer.

[StrayRogue]

August, 1962 to be specific.

[draconis nematoda]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
The internet has been around for nearly half a century. Probably longer.

Did that wind ruffle your hair?

Ray

[Tsa`ah]

While the Electoral College does ensure that each state is represented in the final vote, I do not think everyone is familiar with "why" we have an Electoral College.

It was not set up for equality among states. It was set up as a means of ensuring that at least "some" electoral voters were present that could read.

Literacy percentages at the inception of the concept were incredibly low. If memory serves me correctly, believe it was somewhere in the ballpark of 8 percent.

We could still hold an election without the current Electoral College set-up. Each state is should be able to give 1 vote. That vote is decided by the population’s popular vote.

In essence, don't abolish the Electoral College, revamp it.

[edge]

I wish Clark would run. As for Bush he was not elected. He was appointed in the end. But it's a done deal, nothing we can do about it now.

[imported_Kranar]

I don't even see how the Electoral College ensures every state is equal. So every state is guaranteed atleast 3 votes in the college, when you have some states with 25 votes and I think California has something like 54 votes (not 100 percent sure on that), those 3 votes mean very little and it sure doesn't seem equal to me.

The population is way too uninformed to make a decision as to who should be in charge of government, heck most American's don't even vote for crying out loud. Senators and congressmen should decide who their leader is, and this business of having electors there as a compromise to the individual states is not only folly, but it's proving to be meaningless.

[edge]

Would you rather have a dictatorship like Iraq had?

[Ben]

Originally posted by edge
Would you rather have a dictatorship like Iraq had?

We have one it is called Israel.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by edge
Would you rather have a dictatorship like Iraq had?

No one has mentioned that Edge. Frankly that's a pretty extreme interpretation.

Changing or abolishing the electoral college is not a step toward dictatorship. It's a step toward common sense in reality. Systems that have been in place for a few hundred years tend to become outdated and broken.

I personally feel one vote per state would be the best bet. Leaving such a decision to the legislative branch could, and would prove to be disastrous.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Frankly that's a pretty extreme interpretation. >>

That's not an interpretation period actually, extreme or not extreme.

Interpretations require some form of basis, his statement had none.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Leaving such a decision to the legislative branch could, and would prove to be disastrous. >>

Why do you think that leaving it up the Congress to decide who they think will be a good leader is disastrous?

Honestly, I think congress is more informed about presidential candidates than 99.9 percent of the U.S. population. Elections are demonstrating time and time again that more and more voters don't know or care who to pick to be their president. It's best to let those who do know, and whose job it is to know, pick who their leader will be.

You pick your senator, and your representative, and let them pick the president.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Ben
We have one it is called Israel.

Ben, I don't care how hot some people think you are. Please don't delude your self into thinking you're clever.