Wikileaks releases video showing purported murder of 12 civilians in Baghdad

[Cephalopod]

http://collateralmurder.com/



5th April 2010 10:44 EST

WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff.

Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.


The military did not reveal how the Reuters staff were killed, and stated that they did not know how the children were injured.

After demands by Reuters, the incident was investigated and the U.S. military concluded that the actions of the soldiers were in accordance with the law of armed conflict and its own "Rules of Engagement".

Consequently, WikiLeaks has released the classified Rules of Engagement for 2006, 2007 and 2008, revealing these rules before, during, and after the killings.

WikiLeaks has released both the original 38 minutes video and a shorter version with an initial analysis. Subtitles have been added to both versions from the radio transmissions.

WikiLeaks obtained this video as well as supporting documents from a number of military whistleblowers. WikiLeaks goes to great lengths to verify the authenticity of the information it receives. We have analyzed the information about this incident from a variety of source material. We have spoken to witnesses and journalists directly involved in the incident.

WikiLeaks wants to ensure that all the leaked information it receives gets the attention it deserves. In this particular case, some of the people killed were journalists that were simply doing their jobs: putting their lives at risk in order to report on war. Iraq is a very dangerous place for journalists: from 2003- 2009, 139 journalists were killed while doing their work.

[Cephalopod]

Pretty powerful, chilling stuff.

[AnticorRifling]

Iraq is a very dangerous place for journalists: from 2003- 2009, 139 journalists were killed while doing their work.


..... a whole 139.


Can't see the video here but I'd be interested to hear the whole story, not just what's going to be "reported" (IE media blasting "all" the facts). Were they in the way, someplace they shouldn't be, was it a strike on a target based on bad intel, what?

[AestheticLife]

It was just a group of people (probably media/spectators) out in the middle of a courtyard. The listed video was clipped up to the portion of the engagement, but the guys in the chopper identified two camera men holding cameras as having "AKs", then suggested one had an RPG. Shortly thereafter, they reported five to seven armed targets, one of which had been firing, etc.

It was just a group of innocents... sad stuff. They reeled off a solid half clip, and considering the rounds... Pretty friggin uncalled for.

To the gunner's credit, he sounded sincerely concerned for his own wellbeing just before the initial engagement.

[Cephalopod]

Honestly, you really need to watch the video. It's pretty damning, although I suppose there's a possibility it was doctored.

There's a textual timeline of what's occurring int he video:
http://collateralmurder.com/en/timeline.html

[Cephalopod]

To the gunner's credit, he sounded sincerely concerned for his own wellbeing just before the initial engagement.

I had written up a synopsis for AR, but decided to just drop the timeline instead. You're right, though, this is war and these guys are clearly trying to keep themselves alive. It's the cover-up after the fact (and some of the comments during, like "Well it's their fault for bringing their kids into a battle") that are the worst.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

They thought they had an RPG and AK-47's. Got approval to engage, two diff helicopters fired on 8 people. Then people came in to help the one survivor in a van, they asked for permission to engage again as they thought they were more insurgents, got it, and destroyed the truck.

You don't get any context of why they were watching them in the first place, so everything prior to that is unknown. After the fact it's pretty easy to say oh it wasn't an AK-47 it was a camera. Doesn't say if they found more than one weapon (they did say there was one AK-47) or not.

It goes on to criticize that the two children injured went to an Iraqi hospital instead of the US military hospital and thus wouldn't get as good treatment (probably factual). The pilots can be heard saying it's their fault for bringing their kids to a battle. Again, hindsight is great after the fact with zoomed in video.

It's tragic, and it's war.

[AestheticLife]

Agreed, though to some extent that's expected of you in that setting. You're encouraged to have an extreme distaste for the enemy, to say the very least.

These guys weren't hooting and hollaring, and revelling in their kill. They had a much less celebratory demeanor about the whole thing, so I can't sit here entirely outraged.

Sad shit either way, but for once I'm not as unhappy with this sort of military report as I could/should be.

[Buckwheet]

Not defending what was shown in the video or the comments.

However it has been mentioned many times that immediately following a fight/battle whatever you want to call it or during said fight things people say really get twisted by the adrenaline rush.

[Keller]

I had written up a synopsis for AR, but decided to just drop the timeline instead. You're right, though, this is war and these guys are clearly trying to keep themselves alive. It's the cover-up after the fact (and some of the comments during, like "Well it's their fault for bringing their kids into a battle") that are the worst.

It has got to be tough for a 20 year old kid to justify firing (unknowingly) on children.

And, to be honest, what the fuck were those people doing with their kids there. I understand the good samaritan nature of the van stopping to pick up the injured dude - but have some common sense. Don't drive your kids into a live zone with helicopters circling.

[AestheticLife]

When an entire three-country-expanse is a 'live zone', it's kind of hard to avoid driving within it.

Anyway, I don't really think any defense or justification is needed for the gunner. He did his job as he was expected to. Nobody in that chopper (or anywhere outside of it, for that matter) expected him to accurately appraise and identify every target, and their potential threat. His job was to put holes in things, and that's exactly what he did.

[Keller]

When an entire three-country-expanse is a 'live zone', it's kind of hard to avoid driving within it.

I was referring to the area where a still-circling helicopter recently fired a few dozen rounds.

But I think you already knew that.

[Cephalopod]

Anyway, I don't really think any defense or justification is needed for the gunner. He did his job as he was expected to. Nobody in that chopper (or anywhere outside of it, for that matter) expected him to accurately appraise and identify every target, and their potential threat. His job was to put holes in things, and that's exactly what he did.

I agree with this. They had clearance to fire, they fired. That clearance was based on bad judgement/intel, but shit happens. I'm mostly just appalled by the military's response to this after the fact.

Also, the van was being driven by a father taking his kids to class. They attempted to rescue the Reuters guy who was trying to crawl away. He probably should have thought twice about driving over to save him with his kids in the car, but it's tough to blame the victims in a situation like that.

[Keller]

He probably should have thought twice about driving over to save him with his kids in the car, but it's tough to blame the victims in a situation like that.

I agree.

I don't think it is the drivers fault. I understand he was trying to help.

But I also don't think you can fault a 20 year old kid trying to justify to himself why he in advertently shot kids.

[TheEschaton]

How hard is it to distinguish a camera from an AK-47? That's a serious question, and it begs a serious answer.

If a camera can't be reasonably mistaken for a weapon, the gunner is at fault, if it can be reasonably mistaken for a weapon, he is not at fault.

And again, reasonableness during war is another thing to define. Considering we should have never been in Iraq in the first place, it's all pretty shitty.

[caelric]

How hard is it to distinguish a camera from an AK-47? That's a serious question, and it begs a serious answer.



Having been in combat in Iraq on multiple trips there, I can tell you it's pretty damn hard.

Hindsight is 20-fucking-20, but unless you have been in an actual combat situation, with IED's blowing up, people shooting at you, etc... then you have absolutely zero basis in which to pass judgment on someones combat judgment.

Having said that, I am perturbed by the apparent possible cover-up afterward, but I have zero problems with the actions of anyone directly involved in the battle.

[AestheticLife]

I don't see how the gunner is at fault. At no point should the man behind the cannon be the first, second, or even option for recon/intelligent analysis of any kind. His job is to kill, defend, and kill. Kill first, mind you.

[caelric]

Wikileaks releases... 04-05-2010 12:10 PM Go back to fucking Iraq and shoot some more innocents, meathead.


Took less than a minute for someone to neg rep me for my post. I feel rather butthurt now, can't even sit down.

[Cephalopod]

"But more importantly, how did he get the Chopper Gunner reward without a prior killstreak?"

[Keller]

"But more importantly, how did he get the Chopper Gunner reward without a prior killstreak?"

Methais is a clever dude.

[Parkbandit]

Honestly, you really need to watch the video. It's pretty damning, although I suppose there's a possibility it was doctored.

There's a textual timeline of what's occurring int he video:
http://collateralmurder.com/en/timeline.html

Damning? You mean how at least one guy had what appears to be an RPG? Last I checked, RPGs aren't used for self defense...

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Damning? You mean how at least one guy had what appears to be an RPG? Last I checked, RPGs aren't used for self defense...

http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/129079533528476717.jpg

[Cephalopod]

Damning? You mean how at least one guy had what appears to be an RPG? Last I checked, RPGs aren't used for self defense...

Couple the video with the military's official statement.

I believe that to be damning evidence they lied.

[Kuyuk]

Health service departments use this logo: http://www.spikestactical.com/z/images/SHIRTS_Medicle%20B.jpg So they do not get shot.

Perhaps we need a logo for journalist to distinguish themselves in war zones so they dont become corpses? One would thought before 138 of them were killed, this would have been thought of.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Health service departments use this logo: http://www.spikestactical.com/z/images/SHIRTS_Medicle%20B.jpg So they do not get shot.

Perhaps we need a logo for journalist to distinguish themselves in war zones so they dont become corpses? One would thought before 138 of them were killed, this would have been thought of.

Also distinguishes them as excellent targets to be kidnapped.

[nub]

I think the beginning of the video is stupid. I am letting it load so I don't have to read that crap.

Hmm now that I see this, it is really damn sad.

I grew up a military brat/republican, I am definetly in the middle of the road. Mainly because I am sick and tired of so many people dying (including tons of our own men) for pointless SHIT. Have more American military people died than died in 9/11 yet? And has the cost of the war exceeded that the cost of the two towers going down? I know the answer to the second, guess I'll look up the first.

[Kuyuk]

Also distinguishes them as excellent targets to be kidnapped.

True.

However, I doubt 138 would have been kidnapped by now. But ya never know.. those crazy sand devils.

[nub]

Alright, now I just watched the WHOLE thing... what they did at the end was just stupid propoganda.... They had to point out where the children were because or else the audience watching wouldn't have known that those were children, just like the people in the heli had no idea as well. But they are making it seem as though the guy saw the children then said "come on let's shoot them".

[Taernath]

I saw this earlier and was wondering how long it would take to show up other places I lurk.

It's a cherrypicked video that's designed to provoke an emotional reaction when you watch it out of context.

[caelric]

It's a cherrypicked video that's designed to provoke an emotional reaction when you watch it out of context.

Well, yeah. Thats how both sides do business these days.

[Taernath]

Alright, now I just watched the WHOLE thing... what they did at the end was just stupid propoganda.... They had to point out where the children were because or else the audience watching wouldn't have known that those were children, just like the people in the heli had no idea as well. But they are making it seem as though the guy saw the children then said "come on let's shoot them".

There's also a section that says 'the injured children were treated at an Iraqi hospital which possibly resulted in poorer care and delays'. I'll tell you from firsthand experience, US forces generally WILL NOT bring local children on base for care if it can be helped because of legal concerns.

[Barundar]

Personally, I saw this video first: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9sxRfU-ik

I walked away with a very pro-army stance after watching that. From careful observation of both videos I didn't see anything obviously cut from the guts of the videos. However, there are another 20 or so minutes on the end of the uncut video and you see someone with what looks like a weapon to the soldiers getting blown up at the end of the uncut video with zero editing talking about who it is or what kind of camera they might be carrying. Oh, and the treating soldier doesn't "eventually" decide to do anything in regards to the wounded, he calls for evac right away.

The fact that the military didn't own up to possible issues is a concern to me. What actually happened in the videos is not. The soldiers handled the situation as well as they possibly could have in my estimation.