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Celtic
04-18-2004, 09:51 PM
Category For Sale, Auction or Barter (4)
Topic For sale over 1 million silver (158)
Message To Lord Celtic and others (4296)
By Edited by me so no one spams! (tamral)
On Jun 26, 1999 at 15:43

Celtic, I have read your posts here regarding the sale of the silver star and I have a few simple comments for you.

1) How dare you tell Jalius what he can and cannot do with items YOU possess no authority on. A fool who thought thus started the first World War because he felt the same way about land controlled by the Austrian Government.

2) When you twist the words of another to form a lie to get your way on something that not only does not affect you, but bears no direct concern upon you, it is immoral and considered beneath the standards of common folk, enough said.

3) The silver star was powerless in the hands of another, and only had that simple intrinsic value, therefore it was just that. an ITEM to enhance a character. just like your deed to wehnimers or whatever else you've obtained (notice how we dont question ANY of the methods by which others items, including yours, were obtained or dealt with, its called common courtesy)

4) We noted that Aelsidhe SPECIFICALLY said that such an item in the hands of another was acceptable in the case of jaelus, therefore setting a precedent, therefore any movements thereagainst would have to be carried out by her, not you.

5) Your insult regarding thats why we are leaving the lands. Celtic, I will step above and gratify you with a response, even though you do not deserve one. It is not your business, nor will it ever be, what the reasons are behind our actions or our feelings unless they conflict with a written law, or they concern you, neither or which was done. SO, what you did was create a stir to further insult a deputy (Jalius), insult Jaelus and myself, and act like you are something of a higher stanced being in all of this. Well, all I can say is, your complete lack of morals or ethics in not even bothering to email us or ask nicely about the item before bringing such harsh and classless statements will forever bear in the minds of all who leave with us what kind of sorry excuse for a sentient being you call yourself. The mere fact that you dont care who or how you insult people just to get your way on something that has nothing to bear with you, well I simply hope you learn from this and take the pacifier out of your mouth sometime soon

Lord Tamral


Category For Sale, Auction or Barter (4)
Topic For sale over 1 million silver (158)
Message To Lord Celtic and others (4310)
By Edited by me so no one spams!
On Jun 28, 1999 at 11:17

First off Tamaral,

You really need to count to 10 before you hit that post button.

2ndly, who I am is someone that cares about the integrity of the game and one that doesn't run out and sell every shoelace I have found or collected over the years.

As to some of your comments..

>1) How dare you tell Jalius what he can and cannot do with items YOU possess no authority on. A fool who thought thus started the first World War because he felt the same way about land controlled by the Austrian Government.

For you to compare me to someone as despicable as that corporal, you need to visit someone to have YOUR head examined. Dictator I am not. Someone that gets sickened by watching going away sales then two months later see the person back playing their character more often then not. You want to leave the game, give your items away and cancel and walk away. Not make a big production of a going away sale, then soon as you get a few bids, off you go conviently dropping off the going away portion from your posts.

>2) When you twist the words of another to form a lie to get your way on something that not only does not affect you, but bears no direct concern upon you, it is immoral and considered beneath the standards of common folk, enough said.

I twisted nothing. I posted VERBATIM what he posted, and then reposted VERBATIM what she posted. How is that twisting words? Hmm?

>) The silver star was powerless in the hands of another, and only had that simple intrinsic value, therefore it was just that. an ITEM to enhance a character. just like your deed to wehnimers or whatever else you've obtained (notice how we dont question ANY of the methods by which others items, including yours, were obtained or dealt with, its called common courtesy)

I don't care if the silver star could transport the holder to the moon and back, the biggest problem is what the star signifies, and then to degrade the star by including it in a going away auction.

Of course, I forgot. Your leaving the lands, what the heck do you care.

>4) We noted that Aelsidhe SPECIFICALLY said that such an item in the hands of another was acceptable in the case of jaelus, therefore setting a precedent, therefore any movements thereagainst would have to be carried out by her, not you.

How convenient. You accuse me of twisting words, and then you go and twist Aelsidhe's. She said she had no problem with it being kept as a keepsake, not being sold to someone in a board auction.

>Well, all I can say is, your complete lack of morals or ethics in not even bothering to email us or ask nicely about the item before bringing such harsh and classless statements will forever bear in the minds of all who leave with us what kind of sorry excuse for a sentient being you call yourself. The mere fact that you dont care who or how you insult people just to get your way on something that has nothing to bear with you, well I simply hope you learn from this and take the pacifier out of your mouth sometime soon

I did Email you both and asked you to remove the deputy star as it was something that means something to the deputy's and should not be sold on an open board to just anyone. That email went un-answered.

As far as your childish behaviour during this whole course, the one question hasn't been answered. That question is, do you think so little of this place that you have to simply step all over it's waining values to offer for sale a deputy badge? One that was provided because the GM's felt the holder was someone that could be trusted. Now as it is clearly posted, that maybe that trust was one not founded.

Yes, I have a serious problem with this sale of this star. The precedent it sets is frighting. Imagine a mentor deciding to leave the game and sells his armband.

Imagine a Game Host leaving the game but before doing so, gives away or sells something that was created specifically for them.

It's more then just the sale of an ingame item that does nothing. THe mentor armband is simply a show piece. It has NO powers either, but someone having one on their arm people will mistake them for a mentor. Just as having the deputy star in the wrong hands could provide for the same mistaken identity, causing undue hardships on the remaining deputies.

These insults you sling, with the exception of the first one, really doesn't bother me.

But to compare a Jewish person whose lost family in the Holocaust, to Adolph Hitler shows that your someone that has no morals yourself, and are completely clueless as to it's meaning and to compare me to him on a board about selling lines of code shows total ignorance to what Adolf Hitler did. If you *do* know what he did, then maybe you should re-evaluate your slanderous statement and retract it, not for me, but for the other Jewish players in the game.

Oh yes, one more thing. This post is not from Celtic the Character, it's from his player Alan. Maybe you should remember that when your signing your posts on something that is obviously so OOC.

Good Day Tamaral or whatever your name is.

Board Monitor.. I would certainly hope you leave this thread. While it is not on topic of the sale of an item, it is directed to those that are watching with interest the outcome of this sale.

Celtic's Player Alan.

Celexei
04-18-2004, 09:53 PM
i stand beside ya Alan :aww: some people are just fucking retarded. IE: the whole holocaust shtuff..

Latrinsorm
04-18-2004, 09:58 PM
Tamral didn't mention the Holocaust, or anything at all relevant to the Holocaust. Hitler did not start WWI. Then again, I'm reasonably sure the assassin who did start WWI was concerned with land that was his peoples', so the comparison doesn't really hold up anyway.

Celtic
04-18-2004, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Tamral didn't mention the Holocaust, or anything at all relevant to the Holocaust. Hitler did not start WWI. Then again, I'm reasonably sure the assassin who did start WWI was concerned with land that was his peoples', so the comparison doesn't really hold up anyway.

The original post did make reference to a WWI issue (which I'm sorry, I don't have the original post) and that's what we worked out nearly 2 years ago, that yes, I was wrong about his reference.

HOWEVER...

He clearly stated that I made this post while being on staff, and since I didn't start staff until summer of 2000. For him to point to my GM character and say that as a GM I did blah blah when it's clearly not true is just another case of memory getting a bit fuzzy when you get older.

Funny thing about all this is that I actually had forgotten all about the posts until he cornered me at Simucon one night and we had a good heart to heart talk.

Was I drunk? Probably. But I still remember the conversation and was a bit taken aback that here it is nearly 5 years later and he's still as bitter about it as he was the day it was posted.

<shrug> Who knew?

Tsa`ah
04-18-2004, 10:10 PM
I don't think that you, the player of Celtic, has any right to ask let alone suggest that someone not sell an item.

It is none of your business and does not affect you in any fashion.

Personally I never thought those stars were a well thought out item and never should have been given out to begin with. That one is now being auctioned is rather poetic.

I think the player of Celtic needs to worry about Celtic and keep his nose away from circumstances that do not pertain to him.

Why a company like Simutronics keeps catering to folk like you just astounds me.

[Edited cause that bastard Tijay]

[Edited on 4-19-2004 by Tsa`ah]

Sean
04-18-2004, 10:13 PM
Where did celtar come into this?

Tsa`ah
04-18-2004, 10:18 PM
Heh... call it a fault of mine.

I hear Celtic my mind rambles through lists of characters and players that give me a migrane and Celtar pops up.

We can start with Celtar and degrade to Celtic with the same process.

I'm editing.

Bastard.

Jay
04-18-2004, 10:28 PM
1. Celtic has just as much right to complain about something being sold as anyone here as any right to complain about any topic at all. Including others right to complain about him complaining.

2. I too think that a unfortunate precedent was set by allowing that star to be sold. It was a sign of office and as such had a specific meaning attached. Allowing someone else to own it was tantamount to supporting fraud and impersonation of authority. Alas, mechanics were not attached that would have made it impossible.

3. Perhaps the deputy system suffered from too little oversight and control but it was certainly well intentioned. "The best –laid schemes ‘o mice and men Gang aft a-gley An’ lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain."

4. Celtic is not Celtar and visa versa. I don't know if either man considers it a complimentary misidentification.

~Jay

"In addition, you've got Jay... reason enough to quit right there and run screaming."

Tsa`ah
04-18-2004, 10:43 PM
You know, I can see a legitimate complaint about selling a character. I simply think bitching about an item auctioned is just stupid.

I used to be able to log on and play any character and run into someone else with a quest item or an artifact item and think, "That's cool, Whatsitsname must be some stellar role-playing guru."

Slowly yet ever so surely I noticed the same people in RP plots, the same people selected by merchants, the same people awarded quest items and artifacts. So much so that I didn't notice the new, yet few, faces in the crowd.

It irritates me that anytime I see someone with a silver star, a shard from that fire elemental thingie, or whatever, the first thing that pops into my mind is "who's ass did they kiss?”

Even though the above instance took place 5 years ago (and I'm baffled why it's being mentioned now) I can't help but feel gratified in some fashion. There were a few deputies that should not have been deputies. The selection seemed to be more of a who's who in the game than who is actually an upstanding law abiding character.

Soulpieced
04-18-2004, 10:47 PM
The selection seemed to be more of a who's who in the game than who is actually an upstanding law abiding character.

.

And how exactly is that any different than what happens in real life? It's not what you know, it's who you know... My opinion.

Tsa`ah
04-18-2004, 10:50 PM
You don't make thieves and murderers police officers.

Ravenstorm
04-18-2004, 10:54 PM
I was a deputy once upon a time.

Could never find another one to patrol with and it took two to do anything. After a couple weeks, I stopped looking. My star is still with my character.

Raven

Anebriated
04-18-2004, 11:05 PM
In most cases I would say that the person can sell what they wish, here I am not so sure. With a 'specialty' item things get hairy. Imagine Falgrin selling his deputy star and deed to the park. Someone else would come in and claim ownership and most likely would not control it as Falgrin does. This goes along with my general opinion of alters, if you get something altered then it should be altered for you and you only. It may not be sold to another. This cuts back on merchant hunters, inflation of prices and situations such as this. Simu wants them to remain sellable then make alters more accessible to everyone. Anyway back on topic, an item like this star should go to the grave with the person. If someone else wants it so bad they can have one made for them...

Celtic
04-18-2004, 11:20 PM
Tsa'ah,

At that time, the game was a bit different then it is today with respect to items and such being sold.

At that time, as I pointed out in the following post, that he was selling something that had a different meaning to it other then "just and item".

Who am I to point it out? I don't know. Perhaps I was someone that thought the mere sale of something that significant shouldn't be sold by a player. <shrug>

The reason I posted it here, to answer your question, was in response to people asking about the post and to prove the dates.

I didn't mean to restart the arguement about the star.

Cheers!

Alan.

Ardwen
04-18-2004, 11:22 PM
Falgrin sells his star I'mma kick his ass, I gave him that thing after I looted it offa dead deputy

Ardwen
Looter of All Things Nice

TheRoseLady
04-18-2004, 11:22 PM
I can see and agree with much of your viewpoint Tsa'ah. The haves and the have nots. I personally hate it when the whole Terate and "Chosen" storyline gets brought up - because it truly was who you know in that particular instance.

The one thing about the star is that back in 99 - things were different. Today the stars have nothing but history attached to them. Most players probably don't have any idea what they were used for. What is ironic is that the same degradation of the gaming environment through sales and other activities that Tamral protests so vehemently - he seemed to be actually perpetuating back in '99. Ironic.

-TRL

GSTamral
04-19-2004, 01:20 AM
Celtic, I am and always will be bitter to a degree about having been called an anti-semite when I had made no such reference.

TO THIS DAY, in another thread, YOU STILL say you called myself and jaelus akin to Nazi's because we made an anti-semitic remark.

As far as I am concerned, if you still wish to maintain and lie in other threads that I had made an anti-semitic remark, as the rose lady is so apt to point out about half truths and lies, my grudge will take hold. If you had instead simply said, I had done this after having mistaken something I said for being anti-semitic, I would have no issue.

As far as I am concerned, the matter is dead, and as far as I remembered, you were a sage at the time, but perhaps you were not. Again, I will most happily rescind my statements of you having done so whilst you were a sage (thus giving you the benefit of the doubt over my own memory), if you will do the same and edit the other post stating I had made anti-semitic remarks to you.

Case closed as far as I am concerned with that after you.

GSTamral
04-19-2004, 01:33 AM
<<<
Funny thing about all this is that I actually had forgotten all about the posts until he cornered me at Simucon one night and we had a good heart to heart talk.
>>>

Just to clear this matter up. Actually, it was during the Karaoke contest, and you came up to the bar beside me and Kittiara while we were getting drinks when this happened. And the heart to heart talk was about 4 sentences long, but needless to say, at the time, it had beaten that dead horse to death, and I had essentially forgotten the issuance except for the base. I didn't get angry again about it until you posted in that other thread that I had made an anti-semitic remark first, because I hadnt.

theotherjohn
04-19-2004, 06:00 AM
um

yeah

looking to buy mentor armbands contact me at
theotherjohn@yahoo.com

TheRoseLady
04-19-2004, 07:34 AM
>>As far as I am concerned, if you still wish to maintain and lie in other threads that I had made an anti-semitic remark, as the rose lady is so apt to point out about half truths and lies, my grudge will take hold. << -Tamral

Let's make it clear. My comment was about you accusing Alan of posting the anti-semitic comment when he was a :GM: . And he corrected you, by saying he was not on staff. You chose to pull out the anti-semite piece and focus on that, as if I were commenting on that particular statement. You historically twist dates, facts and other things providing information as fact, when it's not fact. That is, and has been the basis of my jab if you wish to call it that, to begin with. You showed exactly how often you do it in the Gm Org thread with things you said pertaining to me.

You have zero credibility. None. These past few threads have likely made it crystal clear.

-TRL

HarmNone
04-19-2004, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Tamral
As far as I am concerned, if you still wish to maintain and lie in other threads that I had made an anti-semitic remark, as the rose lady is so apt to point out about half truths and lies, my grudge will take hold.

Tamral, nobody is going to care if you decide to carry a grudge. The only one who will be impacted by that decision, really, is you. I am not saying this to put you down, or even to criticize you. I am simply pointing out a fact.

HarmNone, who figures grudges are a pretty heavy load to carry, after awhile

Tsa`ah
04-19-2004, 08:59 AM
I now realise I should have read the GM org thread.

Parkbandit
04-19-2004, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Tsa`ah
You don't make thieves and murderers police officers.

Damn.. Falgrin takes exception to that :P

Falgrin has a small silver star with the words "To honor and Serve" on it. He believes himself to be a 'dep'ty' of some sort.. though he really uses it as a front.

Parkbandit
04-19-2004, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Ardwen
Falgrin sells his star I'mma kick his ass, I gave him that thing after I looted it offa dead deputy

Ardwen
Looter of All Things Nice

You and what army bitch. :smug:

Suppa Hobbit Mage
04-19-2004, 09:56 AM
I'll set you on fire...

Parkbandit
04-19-2004, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Elrodin
In most cases I would say that the person can sell what they wish, here I am not so sure. With a 'specialty' item things get hairy. Imagine Falgrin selling his deputy star and deed to the park. Someone else would come in and claim ownership and most likely would not control it as Falgrin does. This goes along with my general opinion of alters, if you get something altered then it should be altered for you and you only. It may not be sold to another. This cuts back on merchant hunters, inflation of prices and situations such as this. Simu wants them to remain sellable then make alters more accessible to everyone. Anyway back on topic, an item like this star should go to the grave with the person. If someone else wants it so bad they can have one made for them...

Falgrin's "Deed" to the Park has his name squarely on it... it's not going anywhere. And the star really isn't a true deputy star that can get people arrested. It's an alteration I believe and was given to me by some big dumb warrior FOR FREE!! Sucker.

Parkbandit
04-19-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
I'll set you on fire...

Hard to recant a spell when you are choking to death...

Bitch.

Suppa Hobbit Mage
04-19-2004, 09:58 AM
Hard to choke me when I major ewave from invis...

Parkbandithm.

Parkbandit
04-19-2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Hard to choke me when I major ewave from invis...

Parkbandithm.

Ok.. that was a low blow... even from a pint sized halfling piece of trash like you.

Tayvinhm.

Suppa Hobbit Mage
04-19-2004, 10:15 AM
Oh, it burns, the flesh, it burns!

crazymage
04-19-2004, 11:54 AM
Falgrin loves weapon fire.

Parkbandit
04-19-2004, 12:19 PM
I hate you both.

Ardwen
04-19-2004, 01:17 PM
Heh the star isnt an alter, nor is the one I gave Porcell. If a star can access the amunet channel they made for deputies its real. I found both of those and 2 others at various times when I bought large lots of items. Decided to give them to folks that could use them most amusingly in their RP. Dunno what Porcell did with his but giving Falgrin one was a stroke of genius. Course I also made him a stickup note too.

Ardwen
Giver of Things

Parkbandit
04-19-2004, 01:30 PM
So what you are saying is that Falgrin is a REAL DEPUTY.

Some people are in for a world of hurt now. I can see their faces now :spaz:

Here is a list of new laws that will be enacted soon:

All citizens and visitors of the Landing must sit in the Park with good gems (ie- diamonds, rubies and emeralds) in an open container for a minimum of 2 hours per day.

Anyone caught with a cursed gem in their container will be sent immediately to jail. They are dangerous and bad.

All needles or any other anti-theft devices must be tossed in the well.

Do NOT accuse an official deputy like Falgrin of any crimes... he is obviously not only above the law.. he IS the law dammit.

Ardwen
04-19-2004, 01:33 PM
Deputies dont make the laws Goober, rich people that can bribe officials do.


Ardwen
Rich Enough to do Anything, Smart Enough to Know Better

Pierat
04-19-2004, 01:42 PM
omg, first of all, Falgrins Park..... Mustafos Steps, as some would see it my Courtyard, are property in the eyes of the beholder.

2ndly.....(new work whee!) When the heck does someone need a "right" to complain about something, especially around here!

Suppa Hobbit Mage
04-19-2004, 01:45 PM
I've been trying to get a cursed gem in my possession stolen for like a month now.

Anebriated
04-19-2004, 02:01 PM
Falgrin's "Deed" to the Park has his name squarely on it... it's not going anywhere. And the star really isn't a true deputy star that can get people arrested. It's an alteration I believe and was given to me by some big dumb warrior FOR FREE!! Sucker.

I know, I was just using this as an example in the situation given. Even though the star still represents the same thing in someone elses possession it is not the same as they will not use it the same way.

Parkbandit
04-19-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Pierat
omg, first of all, Falgrins Park..... Mustafos Steps, as some would see it my Courtyard, are property in the eyes of the beholder.



Absolutely... you and I both know that Falgrin doesn't actually "own" the park. It's nothing more than a roleplaying gimmick that brings about some great opportunities for me as the player... especially when Falgrin owns a 'deed' to that property. Sometimes you get the idiot that will start yelling "No one can own anything here, it's only a game and this is only a room of text"... so you have to simply ignore some of them. That alteration is by far my favorite. Nothing like someone telling Falgrin "I don't see your name here" and for him to pull out the document.

Celtic
04-19-2004, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Pierat
omg, first of all, Falgrins Park..... Mustafos Steps, as some would see it my Courtyard, are property in the eyes of the beholder.

Wrong.

Celtic still has the title deed to the landing, and since all those sites are within the landing's boundries, you can follow the bouncing ball and determine that Celtic does own all of it.

<cough>

<flees before Jay tosses his IMHO in here>

LC

Mistomeer
04-19-2004, 05:39 PM
I can't believe I read any of this stupid fucking thread.

Jay
04-19-2004, 08:42 PM
omg, first of all, Falgrins Park..... Mustafos Steps, as some would see it my Courtyard, are property in the eyes of the beholder.

I always thought it was the height of lunacy when people claimed parts of buildings (i.e. the porch) and then would defend that "ownership" with a zeal usually only found amid religious extremists. I use to ridicule it by claiming to own the lintel over the door to Hearthstone. That makes about as much sense. Ownership of public areas is only marginally less silly.

~Jay

P.S. And just for Alan...IMHO!

"In addition, you've got Jay... reason enough to quit right there and run screaming."

Edaarin
04-19-2004, 08:47 PM
What's even sillier is when women do it. Like women can own property. That's like property owning property.

Blazing247
04-20-2004, 03:47 AM
<At that time, the game was a bit different then it is today with respect to items and such being sold.

At that time, as I pointed out in the following post, that he was selling something that had a different meaning to it other then "just and item". >

Come on man, you know this is a lie. Item sales for cash started even before AOL came into the picture. And "at that time", not many items were "just an item", many of them that were sold had a great deal of history behind them.

Just a few months after I started playing, Starshadow and Inashadow liquidated massive amounts of very high end gear for cash. I wish I still had the email. I don't agree with the deputy system to begin with, but the selling of the stars was not the beginning of the bastardization of "special" items, that trend was learned from pre 94. Disagree with the man, but don't act like he set the trend for something that had never happened before.

Blazing247
04-20-2004, 03:49 AM
<What's even sillier is when women do it. Like women can own property. That's like property owning property.>

Yes, quite ridiculous. Bestatte (thank God she doesn't play anymore), actually claimed ownership to the tree. Not only was she a noob, but nobody liked her. Fortunately we stole the deed from her. Come to think of it, isn't Harcourt back in the lands?

FinisWolf
04-20-2004, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by Mistomeer
I can't believe I read any of this stupid fucking thread.

I agree completely!

::exits the thread::

Finiswolf

Ardwen
04-20-2004, 05:40 AM
Claiming property as yours is easy, defending it is whats dificult. The porch was many folks before Mustafo claimed it. Meta and the original Aanalar come to mind. And as far as I know Fxg was the first person to sell GS for cash and he was gone years before AOL had access to Gemstone. Quite a few "famous" old mages sold enchants for cash, which is why owning workshops under the old system was so valuable.


Ardwen
Collector of Knowledge