Lighten/Deepen rules -- GM Fixes -- !@$!@

[Inspire]

Backstory:

Yesterday I had a back worn "cloak" changed to a cloak worn "cloak." The GM popped in, did the fix, everything looked fine. Upon further testing, she removed 20 pounds from the capacity of the item. Basically taking away 2 deepenings worth of capacity.

Needless to say I was pissed when I found out what she did, without even mentioning it to me.



My assist to fix their mistake was today, and went something like this.

WE NEED RULES ON LIGHTEN/DEEPEN capacities.

GM Itzel is saying a cloak can now be no DEEPER than 120 pounds, it has been 140 pounds up until her notice today.






*** GameMaster Itzel is here to answer your assist. ***

J>
Speaking to you, Itzel says, "Good morning."
J>
J>'Hello there
You say, "Hello there."
J>remove cloak
You remove a woven cloak from your shoulders.
J>give ITzel
You offer your woven cloak to Itzel, who has 30 seconds to accept the offer. Click CANCEL to prematurely cancel the offer.
J>
Itzel has accepted your offer and is now holding a woven cloak.
J>'If you'd like to have a look
You say, "If you'd like to have a look."
J>l
[Jade Serpent Table]

Also here: GameMaster Itzel
Obvious exits: out
J>
Itzel asks, "What seems to be the problem today?"
J>
Itzel smiles.
J>'I thought I was doing a good thing yesterday, I had that changed from back worn to its supposed cloak worn spot
You say, "I thought I was doing a good thing yesterday, I had that changed from back worn to its supposed cloak worn spot."
J>
Itzel nods.
J>'Unfortunately when she made the switch, I think she filled in the numbers herself
You say, "Unfortunately when she made the switch, I think she filled in the numbers herself."
J>
Itzel says, "Let me see what I can find out, one moment."
J>
Itzel says, "Looking at it, your item was worn in the back slot, and while it was within container limits for that, when it went into the cloak-worn slot it had to be brought in line with cloak-worn standards."
J>
Itzel says, "I'd be glad to move it back to the old slot for you, if you want to have the old capacity."
J>'It was within cloak worn standards
You say, "It was within cloak worn standards."
J>
Itzel says, "I'm sorry, it wasn't."
J>
Itzel shakes her head.
J>'It held 140
You say, "It held 140."
J>'At 8 pounds
You say, "At 8 pounds."
J>'That is well within weight and capacity allowed
You say, "That is well within weight and capacity allowed."
J>
Itzel says, "I'm sorry, looking at the notes on your item, it was outside of guidelines."
J>
J>'Then change it back
You say, "Then change it back."
J>
Itzel says, "That isn't necessary."
J>
Itzel nods.
J>'That's completely unacceptable
You say, "That's completely unacceptable."
J>
Itzel asks, "So you want it to be back-worn again?"
J>'And back to the original weight and capacity
You say, "And back to the original weight and capacity."
J>
Itzel says, "Certainly."
J>'Can I get a referral as well for a SGM?
You ask, "Can I get a referral as well for a SGM?"
J>
Itzel asks, "If you'd like, sure. Would you still like to have this fixed now, or would you prefer to wait for them?"
J>'I'd like it fixed
You say, "I'd like it fixed."
J>
Itzel nods.
J>
Itzel says, "Just a moment then, I'll get you all set up."
J>'She should have told me yesterday
You say, "She should have told me yesterday."
J>'And I wouldn't have to waste your time today.
You say, "And I wouldn't have to waste your time today."
J>frown
You frown.
J>
Itzel says, "You're not wasting my time."
J>
Itzel smiles.
J>
The shrill cry of laughter erupts from a nearby table, and then slowly diminishes to the low sounds of close conversation.
J>'Well you guys are busy, I hate making you do things
You say, "Well you guys are busy, I hate making you do things."
J>'Especially silly tasks like this
You say, "Especially silly tasks like this."
J>
J>'I do want to confirm though, maximum capacity is now 120 instead of 140 for a cloak?
You ask, "I do want to confirm though, maximum capacity is now 120 instead of 140 for a cloak?"
J>
Itzel says, "I can't discuss technical numbers with you, but I can tell you that your item was not within guidelines for a cloak-worn item."
J>'My concern is that every cloak I have, is exactly like that one
You say, "My concern is that every cloak I have, is exactly like that one."
J>'They weigh 8 pounds, they hold 140.
You say, "They weigh 8 pounds, they hold 140."
J>'Analyze shows that as the maximum capacity and minimum weight
You say, "Analyze shows that as the maximum capacity and minimum weight."
J>'and I've also taken many containers to that, very recently
You say, "And I've also taken many containers to that, very recently."
J>
Itzel offers you a woven cloak. Click ACCEPT to accept the offer or DECLINE to decline it. The offer will expire in 30 seconds.
J>accept
You accept Itzel's offer and are now holding a woven cloak.
J>
Itzel says, "There you go."
J>
Itzel says, "Let me set you up with that SGM referral."
J>
J>i
You are holding a woven cloak in your right hand.
You are wearing a tiny silk pouch suspended from a twisted black ora chain, an ancient black ora cloak clasp, a sleeveless dark chainsil tunic, some sleek sylvan body leather, a pair of black ora armlets sporting extended wings, a rune belt, a small dark elven satchel, some shady black sylvan trousers, and some shady black sylvan boots.
J>tunic
In the dark chainsil tunic you see some light leather (x14).
J>cloak
In the woven cloak you see some light leather (x4).
J>remove tunic
You take off a sleeveless dark chainsil tunic.
J>empty tunic in cloak
You try to empty the contents of your tunic into your cloak, but you fill up the cloak with 10 items, leaving the rest in the tunic.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
JR>l in cloak
In the woven cloak you see some light leather (x14).
JR>i
You are holding a woven cloak in your right hand and a sleeveless dark chainsil tunic in your left hand.
You are wearing a tiny silk pouch suspended from a twisted black ora chain, an ancient black ora cloak clasp, some sleek sylvan body leather, a pair of black ora armlets sporting extended wings, a rune belt, a small dark elven satchel, some shady black sylvan trousers, and some shady black sylvan boots.
J>
Itzel asks, "Might I ask, what would you like the reason for your referral to be listed as, so you get the correct SGM?"
J>'This cloak
You say, "This cloak."
J>'I want it cloak worn, while keeping everything I've worked to accomplish on it
You say, "I want it cloak worn, while keeping everything I've worked to accomplish on it."
J>'I've never had this issue prior to this incident.
You say, "I've never had this issue prior to this incident."
J>
Itzel says, "Ah. I see. Well, I'll give you the SGM referral, but I'll let you know now, that isn't likely to happen."
J>
J>nod itz
You nod to Itzel.
J>
Itzel says, "Just so you're prepared."
J>'I'd like to take my chances.
You say, "I'd like to take my chances."
J>
Itzel nods.
J>
Itzel says, "Certainly."
J>
Itzel says, "There you go."
J>
J>'Thank you Itzel.
You say, "Thank you Itzel."
J>
J>'saved me from losin a lot of work
You say, "Saved me from losin a lot of work."
J>i
You are holding a woven cloak in your right hand and a sleeveless dark chainsil tunic in your left hand.
You are wearing a tiny silk pouch suspended from a twisted black ora chain, an ancient black ora cloak clasp, some sleek sylvan body leather, a pair of black ora armlets sporting extended wings, a rune belt, a small dark elven satchel, some shady black sylvan trousers, and some shady black sylvan boots.
J>
Itzel says, "It may be some time until your SGM Referral is answered, as these things aren't on regular shifts."
J>empty cloak in tunic
You try to empty the contents of your cloak into your tunic, but you fill up the tunic with 10 items, leaving the rest in the cloak.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
JR>
Itzel says, "So please, be patient."
J>nod itzel
You nod to Itzel.
J>
Itzel smiles.
J>'Not a problem
You say, "Not a problem."
J>i
You are holding a woven cloak in your right hand and a sleeveless dark chainsil tunic in your left hand.
You are wearing a tiny silk pouch suspended from a twisted black ora chain, an ancient black ora cloak clasp, some sleek sylvan body leather, a pair of black ora armlets sporting extended wings, a rune belt, a small dark elven satchel, some shady black sylvan trousers, and some shady black sylvan boots.
J>l in cloak
In the woven cloak you see some light leather (x4).
J>
Itzel asks, "Is there anything else I can do for you today?"
J>
Itzel exclaims, "Have a nice day!"
J>
Itzel waves.
J>'You as well
You say, "You as well."

[m444w]

Yeah... She shot me down for trying to alter robes into a shirt, even though they're both chestworn. This shit is getting ridiculous.

Edit: That's also why you never hand nice shit over to GMs to change.

[upperguy]

They shot me down for trying to get a 'loot sack' made...because there's no way of telling a normal sack from a loot sack...


(OOC) Ledirth's player whispers, "Not doing veniom, or a "loot sack" as I'm not sure how to differnetiate it from a normal sack."

[Inspire]

My post on the officials:

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=8&topic=3&message=46198



I will wait for my SGM referral to voice my concern and depending on that I will write to feedback.

I just want rules I can understand and show the GM's when they don't know themselves what can and cannot be done.

[AnticorRifling]

They shot me down for trying to get a 'loot sack' made...because there's no way of telling a normal sack from a loot sack...


(OOC) Ledirth's player whispers, "Not doing veniom, or a "loot sack" as I'm not sure how to differnetiate it from a normal sack." Ask them if they no the difference between a sea bag and a grocery bag.

[Kitsun]

I don't understand why the lightening and deepening rules need to be so nebulous. We can tell weight/capacity of items with accuracy via loresong and testing. Posting the actual restrictions would save so much headache when lighteners and deepeners come around and people are unsure what can and can not be done.

[phantasm]

So, my little project cloak is at 7lbs and hold 140.

You analyze your black linen cloak and sense that the item is free from merchant alteration restrictions.

You can tell that the cloak's pockets could not possibly get any deeper, but you might be able to have a talented merchant lighten the black linen cloak for you.


If I start getting it lightened will the GM be secretly lowering the carrying capacity without telling me?

[Inspire]

So, my little project cloak is at 7lbs and hold 140.

You analyze your black linen cloak and sense that the item is free from merchant alteration restrictions.

You can tell that the cloak's pockets could not possibly get any deeper, but you might be able to have a talented merchant lighten the black linen cloak for you.


If I start getting it lightened will the GM be secretly lowering the carrying capacity without telling me?


Does it inspect as having a material, if any?

One other thing that they changed, is that they added the material cloth to the backpack.

Which makes me wonder, is weight and capacity defined by material as well as location?

[WRoss]

That is interesting. I have a vruul skin longcloak that holds 155ish and weighs 8. I have seen other vruul skin items that are able to hold quite a bit.

[LMingrone]

They shot me down for trying to get a 'loot sack' made...because there's no way of telling a normal sack from a loot sack...


(OOC) Ledirth's player whispers, "Not doing veniom, or a "loot sack" as I'm not sure how to differnetiate it from a normal sack."

That's kind of funny, since the GMs themselves released "loot sack"s and "lewt sack"s.

[Loyrl]

I forget who I was talking to about the vruul skin cloaks, but there were two versions that were released in different years. The older one holds more. So depending on which year you got it might hold more than other raven-black vruul skin cloaks.

[Inspire]

To my knowledge, the maximum capacity currently allowed outside of GM Auctions is 140 pounds. The item must also weigh at least 7 pounds.

[Methais]

Itzel says, "I can't discuss technical numbers with you, but I can tell you that your item was not within guidelines for a cloak-worn item."

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/facepalm.png

[Asrial]

Given that stuff doesn't come already max lightened/deepened.. I can see why the GM who changed it from back worn to cloak worn might have put it to a default value. Until we can see the code.. there's no telling how they have it set up.

For all we know.. cloaks/backpacks from the store come at 80% (is that the right math?) capacity. 100 lbs = 80%, 120 = 100%, 140 = 120%.

..and yes.. I can see that if they manually put in numbers it may have not played nice with old old code. If you really want an explanation of my train of thought on this I can post two old backpacks I had that required a GM to fix them and they came out different (even though they were the same item).

I think a better way of resolving this is to say "hey, this isn't what I was expecting.. can we undo the changes until I research this better?" versus "wtf you dumbass, fix this shit before I fuck you up."

[Methais]

Given that stuff doesn't come already max lightened/deepened.. I can see why the GM who changed it from back worn to cloak worn might have put it to a default value. Until we can see the code.. there's no telling how they have it set up.

For all we know.. cloaks/backpacks from the store come at 80% (is that the right math?) capacity. 100 lbs = 80%, 120 = 100%, 140 = 120%.

..and yes.. I can see that if they manually put in numbers it may have not played nice with old old code. If you really want an explanation of my train of thought on this I can post two old backpacks I had that required a GM to fix them and they came out different (even though they were the same item).

I think a better way of resolving this is to say "hey, this isn't what I was expecting.. can we undo the changes until I research this better?" versus "wtf you dumbass, fix this shit before I fuck you up."

What would be even better is either:

- The merchant takes 5 seconds tells you they have to lower the capacity in order to perform the alter.

- The GM knows how items and their code work before working on them.

[Asrial]

- The GM knows how items and their code work before working on them.Bwahahahaah.

[Stanley Burrell]

You've got a 120-capacity cloakworn still.

[Inspire]

You've got a 120-capacity cloakworn still.

It's back to being a woven cloak, that's worn on the back, weighs 8, holds 140.


Now I'm going to find a cloak worn backpack and totally fuck up their world!!!!!!!@111123!!!!!!OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stanley Burrell]

Bwahaha.

[Latrinsorm]

I am apparently in the minority here, but it doesn't appear that the initial GM made any mistake from a mechanical perspective. She had a rule that said cloakworn max is 120, backworn max is 140, so she followed it. It's also not her fault if most (or even all) of the other GMs don't know of or follow the rule.

Now, she probably could have mentioned it, but it's conceivable she had a rule that she couldn't.

Finally:

<<
J>
Itzel shakes her head.
J>'It held 140
You say, "It held 140."
J>'At 8 pounds
You say, "At 8 pounds."
J>'That is well within weight and capacity allowed
You say, "That is well within weight and capacity allowed."
J>
Itzel says, "I'm sorry, looking at the notes on your item, it was outside of guidelines."
J>
J>'Then change it back
You say, "Then change it back."
J>
Itzel says, "That isn't necessary."
J>
Itzel nods.
J>'That's completely unacceptable
You say, "That's completely unacceptable."
J>
Itzel asks, "So you want it to be back-worn again?"
J>'And back to the original weight and capacity
You say, "And back to the original weight and capacity."
>>

Did you cut something out in that section, right after Itzel said "...it was outside of guidelines." and right before you said "Then change it back"?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<100 lbs = 80%, 120 = 100%, 140 = 120%.>>

100 lbs = 83.3%, 120 = 100%, 140 = 116.7%

[Mr. Dallas]

Now I'm going to find a cloak worn backpack and totally fuck up their world!!!!!!!@111123!!!!!!OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I have one of those laying about somewhere.

On another note - at least you caught it early enough to get it switched back. I had a doeskin vest altered years ago that ended up being changed to "a few items" without me knowing about it until I went to put stuff into it much later.

D.

[Kitsun]

I think I have one of those laying about somewhere.

On another note - at least you caught it early enough to get it switched back. I had a doeskin vest altered years ago that ended up being changed to "a few items" without me knowing about it until I went to put stuff into it much later.

D.

I would poo bricks.

[waywardgs]

What I don't understand is how they think they can make changes to your stuff without telling you. Like when items get nerfed... the least they could do is tell people what they're doing and why...

[crb]

Yeah... She shot me down for trying to alter robes into a shirt, even though they're both chestworn. This shit is getting ridiculous.

Edit: That's also why you never hand nice shit over to GMs to change.

When I had a pin worn frock (10x db mind you) it took me 6 or 7 alters to change it to a pin worn ribbon. I slowly morphed it every alter doing a little bit at a time. frock to robe to cloak to cape to sash and so on.

I tried at first to just skip ahead, thinking a less than 1 pound pin would make more sense than a 1 pound pin worn frock, they wouldn't do it.

So, 7 alters later, I had it.

[Morrff]

I forget who I was talking to about the vruul skin cloaks, but there were two versions that were released in different years. The older one holds more. So depending on which year you got it might hold more than other raven-black vruul skin cloaks.

Yes there were two different cloaks sold, one I believe was 7lb's @ 100lb's and prior to that EG02 or the artisan faire some time around then they sold the same description cloak off the shelf at 7 or 8lb's and 140lb capacity(including weight, so really 132lb capacity).

I remember buying about 50-100 of those or so and selling them on the amunet for years after, good profits.