Enlistment

[Sean]

Because the Clarke thread was starting to take a turn towards this concept I figured it deserved a thread of its own.

What are your personal feelings on enlistment? good? bad? necessary? unnessary? ultimate act of patriotism? ultimate joke? etc.

Personally if you feel you are ready to enlist and think you can commit to the responsibilities that come with it go for it. More power to you. I wont pretend to understand everything that enlisting entails or what it's like because thats not a step I personally am ready to take.

However I do not think its the ultimate act of patriotism or the best thing you can do for your country. I will never condem anyone for making the choice I cannot but I hope they are doing it for the right reasons and didn't just fall for some recruiters fancy schtick.

Anyhow I was just wondering what some of you other posters felt about enlisting or other military endeavors.

[Edaarin]

For me, the only way I would enter the military would be through conscription. There's too much invested in my life right now (by myself, my family, and the government in the form of a $9000 a year high school education) for me to go gallivanting around the Middle East waving an AK around. For most of the (admittedly small number) people that I know who enlisted, the reason was either to start over in life because they fucked up, or for financial aid.

Beyond that, if you signed up to protect your ideals or what not, that's wonderful, but don't act like your shit don't stink.

[TheEschaton]

I don't like the military, and I don't care who knows it. I would never join it, because I would never kill for anybody, least of all my country.

The mindset of "Dont ask, don't tell" just sums up a philosophy of the military I don't like. Not questioning authority (and you can say that you're technically allowed to question your CO's decision, but how often does it happen?), blindly following, all these things - they seem to me to be antitheitical to the very freedom the military is supposedly protecting. And we know the line, repeat after me: "The ends never justify the means."


-TheE-

[Warriorbird]

I think enlistment is an act of bravery. I also think conscientious objection during a time of a draft is an act of bravery.

My problems with the military usually only come in with what it is directed to do.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think the military is a 'last resort' for some, but regardless of what circumstances you join under, I think for a lot of people it is a good thing.

Structure, skills, respect for authority, patriotism and self confidence are what a lot of people get from the military. At least those I knew who joined and those I knew when I worked for the government on a base.

I respect and admire folks in the military.

[Wezas]

You shouldn't join the Military unless you want to. I'm not saying anyone is forced, but in these times, if you want to further your political career, your military record will come into question. So many people are using the military as a stepping stone.

Personally, I don't think I need a president that is a "war veteran". He has advisors for that. I'd rather him be un-bias to military threats and listen to his advisors. He needs to be a good decision maker. He needs to be a good businessman. He needs to care about making this country a better place.

I wouldn't join the military unless it was totally necessary. Hypothetical: If all of the US was wiped out except VA (Because VA kicks ass) and they needed me to fight to save the country, then I would. I have family and friends here that I care about. But that's not the case. We have plenty of people right out of highschool that are dying to get into the Military. If my child wanted to, I'd support him fully.

[Galleazzo]

I'm a veteran. I think there should be compulsory national service coming out of high school or college. Not compulsory military; I don't want ANYONE standing next to me with a gun, and I got to depend on him for my life, who doesn't want to be there. But something like Peace Corps for everyone.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tijay
good?No.
necessary?Yes.
ultimate act of patriotism?No.

The military, to me, should be an intermediary step. We should eventually not have a military, and by we I mean humans. It really really sucks when you have something like a World War comes along, lots of people die, and we're back to where we were before. Hurray for the status quo, sorry about the millions of kids being dead, the politicians are going to go make sure we'll have more wars in the future by making shitty treaties.

Dying for one's country is commendable, living for one's country is a whole other level.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I always thought letting the other poor bastard die for his country was the best policy.

[Galleazzo]

That's kinda the idea.

I was real down with standing 10 miles back from the coast and Wisconsin flipping Tomahawks off at Saddam's ass back in Desert Storm.

[i remember halloween]

the only people that know what the military is like are those who have been in it. it's sad how bad of a misconception there is regarding life in the military. it's already reared its head several times in this topic pathetically. military service, at least in today's world, should definitely not be mandatory. when people don't want to be in morale suffers and that is a very bad thing.

i personally don't think anyone needs to do anything in service to the country as long as they are willing keep their mouth shut and not complain. what pisses me off most are these pseudointellectuals who sit around all day posting on internet message boards, leeching off the system of freedoms, and taking shots at those who support it without any founded basis.

[Hulkein]

If there was a World War or large scale war in which my country needed me badly and the draft was re-enacted, I would probably enlist in the Air Force before I was drafted. I have two cousins in the Air Force, and from what they've told me it sounds very interesting. I have great eyesight and have always been good at driving/boating that type of thing, I'd hope that carried over into being a good pilot.

I give people who enlist a lot of credit, no matter their reasons they are doing a great service to the country.

[TheEschaton]

I like G's idea of compulsary service to the nation.

Do a tour of duty, whether it's in the military, or in the Peace Corps. Your choice. Neither one should be more economically advantageous than the other. Neither one should be considered "braver" than another. Neither one should be considered "opting out" than the other.

The military does impose discipline and self-worth, and for that, I guess it's good. But discipline at the cost of what? I can gain discipline in the Boy Scouts, but they don't order me to kill someone if they deem it necessary.

But yeah, that compulsary service thing rocks my world. I've thought of it before, and if I was ever in gov't service, to propose a bill to counter the G.I. Bill, where the option was given. Two years in the armed services, two years in the Peace Corps, whatever.

That all may be biased by the fact that I'm going into the Peace Corps, but whatever. ;)

-TheE-

[Edited on 3-25-2004 by TheEschaton]

[TheEschaton]

If you're looking to be a fighter pilot, I hope you're not over 5'8" or something like that. I knew a guy who wanted to be one, and apparently that's the height restriction.

-TheE-

[i remember halloween]

5'8 is not true.

[Hulkein]

5'11"... I didn't think about that, but I think I'd fit, heh.

[i remember halloween]

you can be 6'4 and be a fighter pilot

a little off topic
but one thing i found intresting was that "not" having been a member of the Peace Corps was a requirement for quite a few jobs including mine.

[TheEschaton]

Are cockpits bigger now? Cause I specifically remember my friend not getting a pilot gig because he was too tall....and he's not all that tall, in my opinion.

Females supposedly make better pilots anyways, Hulkein.

-TheE-

[i remember halloween]

lol, stop talking out of your ass TheE, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about

[TheEschaton]

but one thing i found intresting was that "not" having been a member of the Peace Corps was a requirement for quite a few jobs including mine.

Like what? And for what reason? ;)

I'm not allowed to be a member of the intelligence community, to be in the Peace Corps.

-TheE-

heh then it goes the other way around as well TheE
you can not be a member of the Intelligence comunity if you were a member of the Peace Corps

[TheEschaton]

And why not? I can see the connection with not being in the intelligence agency going into the Peace Corps, because you're working with foreign gov'ts who might be leery of spying.

When you come back, what's to prevent you from working with the CIA?

Maybe that Namibian gov't'll "flip" me, and turn me into a double agent (even though I wouldn't even yet be an agent) in the two years I'm there. Heh.

-TheE-

[AnticorRifling]

Actually it's a well known fact that governments around the world put "bugs" on their trees. So if you are a tree hugger chances are you have at least one of these "bugs" on your person and you don't even realize it. This is why cannot be in the intelligence community after you have been a tree hugger. There is just too much risk involving you bringing a "bug" into the mix.

I think the reasoning why is that foreign governments are known to try to recruit spy's from the peace crops, I asked cause I thought it was amusing and that's the only response I got.

For example if i had traveled to say Saudi Arabia and spent three months there, it would have been very hard for me to get a high level security clearance... so that could have come into play as well i think.

[TheEschaton]

Actually it's a well known fact that governments around the world put "bugs" on their trees. So if you are a tree hugger chances are you have at least one of these "bugs" on your person and you don't even realize it. This is why cannot be in the intelligence community after you have been a tree hugger. There is just too much risk involving you bringing a "bug" into the mix.

Much like the U.S. bugged the EU offices last spring before the Iraq war to see which way it was going to head. ;)

-TheE-

[Sean]

Hey hey. Lets play nice. Before this turns into another one of the 30 Iraqi war threads.

[Galleazzo]

Hey, I respect the Peace Corps. Working in some shithole in the back of beyond for no better reason than to help.

Reasons I want national service is to put some discipline into the kids and to give 'em the chance to belong to something bigger than themselves. There's plenty of work to do that doesn't mean the military.

And I'm down with anyone who doesn't want to opting out of the service. Only that means they're flipping off their country, and so they should never get to vote, hold office, get government student loans or Social Security or welfare or any other handout. Treat 'em like permanent green card folk.

[Sean]

By the time most of us are eligible theres a good chance social security will be dried up anyway. But I see what your getting at and I can't say that I disagree. However, personally, I'd like to think I have a certain level of discipline and after spending 5 years (the amount of time required to get a Bachelors of Architecture) I'm already behind the curve. Doing mandatory service unless I'm a weekend warrior just further delays my progress and entry into the real world.

[Galleazzo]

Hell, just a couple years'd be enough. Do a couple years, you proved you support your country.