Men-And why they suck.

[Shari]

This is kind of long, so bear with me.

SO...

This morning my boyfriend and I get into an argument about him using my toothbrush, I admit, I was being a bitch and apologized for being one before he left for work, all was fine.

I call him in the middle of my 5 hour photo print session to see how he's doing and he's had a shitty day, bad interview with a guy they're hiring and his car ran out of gas. I tell him I'm sorry about that and we chit-chat a bit.

I get home, starving...I struggle to unlock the door with a load of prints in my hand, so boyfriend gets up and opens the door, says hi and proceeds to eat his leftovers that he made JUST FOR HIMSELF as I'm setting all my shit down. He is completely absorbed in the tv..which is odd because usually when one of us gets home we talk about our days. So clearly he's pissed.

So I attempt to strike up a conversation with him. He's still in a pissy mood. He says its over work. Okay fine. We talk about it and I try to comfort as best I can.

As I'm now making a dinner for myself, I suggest to him that we go see a movie on Friday night. He says he has to help my parent's neighbor move a big screen tv (since we just got a $5000 dollar dining room set from a friend of his for FREE <wets self> anyhow, I say that's cool..we'll go when he gets done, and would likely go around 7 or 8pm anyway. He agrees.

So THEN, his brother comes over to show off his big bad new diesel truck. Nice truck, yadda yadda yadda. So as he's pulling out boyfriend says, "So I'll see you on friday to move the tv?" His brother says yes, and boyfriend says "Cool, that way we can have dinner and hang out afterward."

WTF?

Of course I don't say anything til after his brother leaves, and I'm like, "Uh..wern't we going to see a movie friday night?"
His response, "You know Shari, sometimes its a give and take, we have this nice dining set now and I have to help move a tv." Gives me a shitty look.

I say, "Yeah that's fine and all but I thought we agreed to go out friday night afterward, not to have dinner with your brother (his "I'm better than you" wife, and his two rugrats, one of which is totally out of control and beats up our dog) and his family"

He goes off into this whole schpeal on how I've been a bitch since I got home, and that I'm totally selfish for not wanting to have dinner with his brother.

WHAT THE FUCK, I ASK AGAIN.

We had already made plans and all of a sudden its like "I am man, I put foot down, what I say, go." <bangs fists against chest>

I don't care if we have dinner with his brother, I wouldn't mind bragging and showing off what we got for FREE <wets self again> but for christ's sake, why couldn't he say something like, "Hey, do you think it's cool if we do dinner instead of going to the movies?"

:?:

Sometimes I wonder if he forgets the fact he owns like 6 guns, that of which I know how to shoot...accurately. <stare>

[Hulkein]

You can't argue with the foot being put down, I'm sorry.

[crazymage]

clean up your puddle then MAKE ME A PIE BITCH

[Hulkein]

Hey hey, I didn't say that. I just said it is futile to argue since the man has already put his foot down. It's an act that carries more weight then all judicial systems set in place in the Western world. It's irrefutable.

[Snapp]

Give him some midol.

[Shari]

Snapp, that was hilarious..you other two can fuck off. <smiles prettily>

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Jesae
So I attempt to strike up a conversation with him. He's still in a pissy mood. He says its over work. Okay fine. We talk about it and I try to comfort as best I can.


That's probably where you went wrong. Speaking for myself, I hate it when someone tries to get me to 'talk about it'. If I'm pissed, I want to be pissed. If I want to talk about being pissed, I'll start talking about it. I don't want to be coaxed or soothed or guilted into 'opening up'.

I'm a lot more reasonable when left to my own to get over something instead of ending up resenting the person who nags me into sharing.

Note: this does not apply to many domestic problems where communication is critical. But if he was just pissed over work you should have just let it go until he was ready to bitch.

Raven

[peam]

Someone owes somebody a blowjob.

[crazymage]

Originally posted by peam
Someone owes somebody a blowjob.

nah i just want the pie

[Hulkein]

Haha, nice posts.

Anyway, honestly, I don't see why you're mad.

You're not married and it is his brother after all. You're also going to be with him that night, they're not going to a strip club or a bar alone to get smashed without you. Seems to me you're more pissed at him being mad at you then his actual choice of what to do that night.

[Shari]

Okay first....we've been together for 6 years. Second...we live togther. I'm just getting fucking sick and tired of having him change plans instantly without see what I want to do. I mean when you've been with a person that long you tend to want their input. I don't make a decision on plans until I've gone over with it with him first.

Oh and the bitching about work thing..I don't sit there and coo at him, I let him throw it all at me while I nod.

[peam]

Accept your vagina.

[Shari]

Oh and for the record..if this situation was flipped, and he had made plans and I suddenly changed them without going over with it first, he would have went ballistic.

[Ravenstorm]

Well, if it's an ongoing problem and one you can't ignore, then talk to him about it. Sounds like one of those domestic problems that requires communication.

Or is this a thread just so you can bitch and everyone else nod at you while you get it out of your system?

Raven

[Hulkein]

They're not terribly switched though... You're still going to be together, you're just having dinner for like an hour or two. I know I wouldn't mind really if my girlfriend switched a movie into dinner. Still going to be with her and have the better part of the night together.

[Shari]

Yeah, we will be talking about it later. His brother didn't leave until late so when I tried to talk to him about it he went on this whole "You're a selfish bitch" rant and told me he didn't want to "talk" about it anymore, and went to bed.

Yeah I wanted to get it off my chest, but I don't want people nodding with me. I wanted input, I got some. Even though its from single 18 and younger boys who haven't the faintest idea what I'm talking about. Aside from Sergey and Peam...who will probably be single for a very *very* long time. :D

Oh and I don't care about the dinner, its fine with me. I just wish we would COMMUNICATE together before he makes plans without me. I don't do that to him, why should he do it to me?

By the way, my boyfriend's sister in-law hates me because I discipline her kid when he throws rocks at my dog, or throws our couch pillows in the house, thus breaking shit. She does nothing to stop him and then wonders why I'm telling him to quit injuring/breaking my things. She says I don't *understand* because I don't have children.

Then I smile at her and say, "And thank god that I don't yet."

Probably moreso why she hates me. <giggles>

[Tsa`ah]

I'll have to side with Raven on this one.

The last thing I want after a shitty day leaves me pissed even when I get home is having my wife try and pick my brain and pull a conversation out of me. Most guys don't want to talk about their shitty day until they're ready.

We don't even want to talk about plans for later in the week and we'll agree to anything just to be left alone for a few more minutes.

So he said sure to a movie on Friday, but didn't really let it register. On top of that he doesn't want to come off as a chump to his brother whom is helping him out with this TV move that garnered you two a dinning room set. It's a sense of obligation.

Finally his foot stomping and chest pounding were just to give him a feeling of control on a day where he had none.

This won't be the last time something like this happens, but good communication will leave you with fewer WTFs.

[Drew2]

Yeah. I'll agree with the general mood of "If I'm pissed, go away".

You may not like it, you may think it's not the best way to handle it, but really it works. If you disappear for just a short while, guys usually snap out of it after less than an hour.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Tayre
If you disappear for just a short while, guys usually snap out of it after less than an hour.

That's something you'll have to gauge for yourself.

If I've dealt with corporate morons all day on my day off, airport security, flight delays, idiots in cars, compensating cops, and what have you; it may take several hours.

Run of the mill bad days? I'll buy an hour or less. It just depends on how much stress/shit has been tossed my way on any given day.

Sometimes my wife will pick up on my mood, sometimes she doesn't right off.

[Shari]

Alright. I'll give it a shot. So what the fuck am I supposed to do? Just stay mute and not talk to him the whole night? Or just try to talk about a totally off-topic subject?

[Drew2]

Nah, not mute. Just only talk if it's needed. Be quiet... if he's watching TV, just sit and watch it with him. Don't ask him to change it or anything.. just be around. If you don't want to do that, go read, do your own thing, whatever. He'll talk to you when he's ready.

If it's easier for you, just tell him "I'll be around if you need me" and then he'll know you're not angry or ignoring him, you're just giving him space. It should make things 1000x easier.

By sit and watch it with him I mean sit on another piece of furniture or the other end of the couch or whatever. Don't attempt to snuggle with him while he watches it or whatever.

[Edited on 3-25-2004 by Tayre]

[Tsa`ah]

Well the damage is done, he's gone to bed pissed, and that's never a good thing.

Next time just ask him if he wants to talk about it and go from there. When he's ready to talk, he'll talk. If you attempt to coax it out of him, you'll be branded a nag, and women shouldn't be branded nags until well after 40.

This doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrong however. He shouldn't have said sure to a movie and he should have been a bit more considerate about dinner.

Ya he was pissed but he doesn't need to kick over a hornet's nest because of it.

He almost sounds like he wanted his day to get shittier.

[Shari]

I don't snuggle.

And he DID want to talk...about how selfish I was being. <stare> The part that sucks is every time I tried to voice my side of the store I was interrupted and told to grow up. <stares still> So basically I get to sit there and listen to him tell me I need to give in and that it isn't always about me, that I should suck it up and deal, and quit being in such a bitchy mood. <stares YET AGAIN>

[Sean]

Thats what you get for dating someone Tsa'ahs age. They get all moody when you forget to change them or their arthritis kicks in.

[Shari]

You keep bagging on him youngin and I'm going to start using your single status against you.

You have been warned.:saint:

[Tsa`ah]

Heheheh... [EDIT].

Don't sit there and take that crap. Give him that space! Tell him your going out to buy 1500 dollars worth of dinner ware to go with the dinning set.

Never take verbal abuse.

Edit: Bad Tsa'ah go read CT's post about death threats!

[Edited on 3-25-2004 by Tijay]

[peam]

A single status can never be used against anyone, except maybe in taxation.

[Mint]

From reading your initial post it sounded like he was still sulking over the argument you had earlier in the day. Either way, you shouldn't have to tiptoe around someone who is in a crappy mood. It is unfair to you. It sounds like the way he was acting was a punishment of sorts. Just my opinion.

[TheEschaton]

It sounds like to me, a classic case of avoiding conflagration in the family unit. You have to realize, men have a different hierarchy than women. While he may trump all your friends, his brother trumps you. Probably always will, if they're close (this is a mere expression of "bros before hoes"). If the brother unit comes in says, "We are going to have dinner this night", to avoid seeming weak, he'll just go along with it, and break the news to the lower ranks when he sees fit.

Remember, men are very tribal. And you're the lone female from the other pack, trying to incorporate herself into the pack. It may have been six years, but my parents have been married 25, and known each other for something like 30, and my mother still tiptoes around her in-laws, because my dad's highest priorities are his immediate family.

Edited to add: And if someone harmed my dog, they'd be dangling by their ankles over Niagara Falls while they pissed themselves and it ran down to their face.

-TheE-

[Edited on 3-25-2004 by TheEschaton]

[DeV]

I agree with Mint.. why pussy-foot around the issues. Sounds like a break down in communication to me. He may have been pissed after a long day which happens but that still he could be civil.

Men communicate, they probably gossip just as bad a women, now if they'd just do it with their girlfriend/wife.

[Myshel]

I've been married to a moody man for years. When he has had a bad day or in a pissy mood, I ignore him, completely. I don't want to know why he had a bad day or is pissed off at me, (most of the time he thinks in some way its my fault anyway). I go on with my life, and let him be the snarly lump on the couch, until he gets over it. I used to try and get him to talk about it and be the supporting little woman, blah blah blah, always ended up with me being in a bad, pissy mood too.
When he wants sex again, his pissy atitude will evaporate and there is one less argument over nothing to obsess over. The plus is since I've ignored the whole situation, I didn't get pissy too and he can spend quality time kissing my ass, to get above mentioned sex.
Him changing plans to accomendate his family? Get used to it, family always come first, and its not like a night at the movies was in stone. Go Saturday night, as in.. ok friday night we are doing the family night so Sat. night can we do what I want? Then ask for something better. ;)

[AnticorRifling]

I agree with theE on this one. My wife beats all of my friends and family except my brother. After being together for over 6.5 years she's learned that it's just one of those things. I will go to the ends of the earth to make her happy but when my little brother is around she knows that plans are going to change and will normally involve me and him and not her.

Nothing you can really do in a case like this but after the fact make it known that when he does things like that it makes you feel like shit, it won't change anything but you'll get some free stuff out of it :cool:

[Atlanteax]

As for the brother thing... I'm assuming that he doesn't see his brother often, maybe once a week or less?

So you should expect him to change plans to include his brother, when he otherwise sees you everyday. Especially if it's a good relationship between the two.

Boyfriend probably thought that the movie on Friday was "no big deal" as it was just you two going out to "hang out". He may have hesitated if it was something "important" like "date night".

.

As for the sister-in-law, you're just screwed there. Sounds like one of those "my kids can do no wrong" twits.

You're doing the right thing in discipling them, as it is *your* house.

What I'd suggest, instead of confronting her which will never work, is if you talk to your boyfriend about how the kids are being problematic, or your boyfriend's brother.

Not to be sexist here, but fathers are more reasonable in listening to complaints or commentary about their kids than mothers.

So just tell your boyfriend's brother that you wish that his kids would be more respectful of the property and of the dog. He'll recognize that it's a behavioral problem (which guys hate) and attempt to fix it.

As it seems that if you tell a mother, she'll immediately think you're insulting her.

Now, talking to your boyfriend's brother won't work if you and him don't get along, or he has a dislike of you on some level. Then your only resort is talking to your boyfriend and hoping that he squares it off with his brother.

Men are more willing to say things as it is with each other, as they just want to express what the problem is, and get it resolved.

However, I'll warn you that be prepared for some additional anger from your boyfriend's sister-in-law after you talk to his brother, or he talks to his brother. But don't worry about that, just shrug it off... nothing really you can do.

Ideally though, once the kids start behaving (after their father sets them straight), the tension should subside on its own, as you should no longer have to discipline them yourself, which negates any resentment on her part towards you in regard to disciplining her kids.

.

That's my take on this whole thing.

Btw, I'm in agreement with the other male posters in that if a guy is pissed off... just leave him alone, he does NOT want to talk about it as talking about problems in an empathic way is a women's thing (again, not to be sexist, but saying as it is). He'll cool off on his own, and will likely appreciate you even more for not compounding the situation.

He probably went to bed mad, because he had originally hoped that he'll burn off the anger after watching some TV, but then you kept it going by trying to talk about it, and ended up making the situation worse instead.

[Hulkein]

For the record, I said that it was his brother first, and that's why he chose to change the plans, not E.

<<Even though its from single 18 and younger boys who haven't the faintest idea what I'm talking about. Aside from Sergey and Peam...who will probably be single for a very *very* long time.>>

Seeing as that leaves me, I will take this time to tell you your statement is innacurate. Don't get mad and attempt to insult me because I would personally enjoy a night with my girlfriend no matter what we were doing as long as we were together, and (judging by what you've said in this thread) you can't say the same for yourself in your relationship.

[Edited on 3-25-2004 by Hulkein]

[CrystalTears]

Pissed off man = leave him be.

Many men don't like talking about their problems, least of all on command. I'd like to know what's ticking off my fiance, even though I can't really do anything about it other than listen, but most times it's either work or something at school pissed him off. Either way he knows I'm there to talk when he's ready. The very few times I've asked what's wrong and he says "I don't want to talk about it" I just say okay and leave him alone. He eventually comes around and tells me.

The prodding is what men don't like. Hell I don't like it either however my girlish ways will kick in and I'll say "nothing is wrong" and we all know that's a crock but it's just that I don't want to talk about it.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think we (the general we) should stop taking ourselves so seriously in relationships.

How big a deal is it to change plans from a movie to dinner? I'd say, not very big.

2 hours at a dinner you don't like, rest of your life with someone you do? Compromise and go to the movie the next day.

Mention to him how much it bugged you AFTER you've done it, and in a rational manner, and hopefully he'll consider that the next time. AND, the next time you are thinking of changing plans on him, consider how upset you were THIS time.

I'm very laid back in my personal and work life, rarely do I get REALLY upset, and usually, an hour, or a day later, I feel foolish for it.

One last thing... 6 years? Get married already.

[Sweets]

Men can be great big, whining babies.


Now that I got that off my chest, I'd say he is lucky that you didn't take your mood out on him and instead asked why he was in a bad mood. (You didn't say you were in a bad way...it just comes out that way in the explaination). You let him whine and talk and get nothing in return. That's men. I would just blow him off when he gets pissy. As for your 5000$ dining room set (wets herself with just the image), I'm very jealous. Yeah...trumping the night out for the movies is a slide since it was his brother and the you got the dining room set.

Kick the brat that's hurting your dog....smile through diner and make him BEEEGGGGG for sex.

It all evens out.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Sweets
Men can be great big, whining babies.


And women can't? I'll do Maimara's role of devils advocate on the gender wars from the male POV.

No offense intended to Jesae for this, but I think this thread is a good example of the counter point. He changed a stupid little thing from a movie (which to me it seems he was fairly non commital about anyway since he turned it down once and then later accepted it when it was rebrought up) to a dinner and BANG insta thread material. He didn't write her out of the plans. He didn't kick her to the curb. He just opted for a change in plan. And because it annoyed her and she let him know him making comments of his own is whining and being a baby? come on now.

[Madmox]

I don't know Suppa, personally i hate it when my girlfriend brings things up afterward. I would rather have her tell me about it before hand because even if i can't change it i do recognize that next time to take that into consideration and it does'nt quite come across as whining as much.
In a sense i likewise agree with the whole leave him alone thing. I'd say just don't talk about whats bothering him. Bring up something you both enjoy something lite(not deep or controversial) and conversationish not agknowledging that he's in a bad mood(i.e not tip toeing around him) . Just something to take his mind off of it. But thats just my take and what'd work for me as a guy.
-Colin

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Sweets
You let him whine and talk and get nothing in return. That's men. Yeah, men are such big talkers, after all. :?:

[Shari]

Okay, I think some of you are missing the point. My main frustration is that he suddenly changed plans. And yeah the movie wasn't a huge deal and we can go another time, but he does this CONSTANTLY. And it isn't necessarily family involved either. If he wants to do something else, there is no argueing with him. THAT is where my frustration lies. If you make plans, fucking stick with them, or involve me in the change of plants instead of saying, "This is what we're going to do and that's that."

And just to conclude this conversation, he called this morning and apologized, stating that the dinner wasn't even set in stone and he doesn't even really know WHAT we're doing that night.

As for the sister-in-law, I just tolorate her. About a year ago she had the nerve to call up my boyfriend, and tell him to tell ME not to discipline her kid. I was so irate that she was cowardly enough to not come to me and tell me this. I would have been more willing to listen to her if she had just told me so that we could have talked about it instead of her hiding behind my boyfriend. Bullshit. Oh well, thats what in-laws are all about, right? <groans>

[Edited on 3-25-2004 by Jesae]

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

My thoughts...

Either you've been putting up with it for 6 years, what is different now that bothers you

or

It's something new, so why has he changed?

[CrystalTears]

I don't have children and I haven't had to deal with bratty family children, however I know that child discipline done by someone else that's not family is very sensitive territory.

Even in my house, if something a child did in my home bothered me, I'd address the parent, and really just talk sternly to the child, if anything. They are not my children to discipline, regardless of what they are doing in my home. It's the parent's job to monitor their kids, so it's them that's going to get the lecture so that they can do what they have to do.

It was probably the stepping over and scolding them without speaking with her that has gotten her upset. Hell my aunts get teary-eyed when my grandmother yells at their kids because.. well.. it's their kids.

As for the constant changing of the plans, I would talk to him about it. Although now that someone else said it, if it's been 6 years and it's always been this way, why is it bothering you now and why haven't you said something to him before? If this habit just started, why don't you confront him about it? Although do it when you're both in a good mood, not when you're having a spat about something and you end up throwing it in there for good measure.

People (especially men from my experience) don't like when you're having an argument and you start chuking in things about the past or things that have bothered you that you never mentioned before out of the blue. They hate that shit. Cause not only are they upset that you're having a fight, but that you're bringing up shit that they're supposedly were to know about and now have something new to work out. One thing at a time, people.

Men are simple creatures. Women tend to make them out to be more complex. Women are the complex ones in these scenarios.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
if something a child did in my home bothered me, I'd address the parent, and really just talk sternly to the child, if anything. I catch someone throwing rocks at a dog (unless it's like a Satan dog) there's going to be a lot more than talking done. I don't care what age they are.

[Myshel]

[quote]Originally posted by Jesae
Okay, I think some of you are missing the point. My main frustration is that he suddenly changed plans. And yeah the movie wasn't a huge deal and we can go another time, but he does this CONSTANTLY. And it isn't necessarily family involved either. If he wants to do something else, there is no argueing with him. THAT is where my frustration lies. If you make plans, fucking stick with them, or involve me in the change of plants instead of saying, "This is what we're going to do and that's that."

Sounds like a control issue Jasae. I think in relationships its a constant shift of control between couples. Men, when things aren't going right at work want something they CAN control and thats usually power base at home. Even the apology he gave you the next day is another way to shift power in his court and control the situation. As long as it shifts back and forth between couples, its normal I believe. I know in my relationship, my husband loves the feeling of control, so I let him think that.

:lol:

[HarmNone]

Any woman who finds herself in a building with her male significant other who is in a pissy mood should realize there is an immediate solution to the problem. Take the car keys, grab the credit card and go shopping! Do it consistently, every time you are confronted with this phenomenon. In most instances, the pissy moods will cease to trouble him. If not, you win anyway! :D

HarmNone, helpful again

[HarmNone]

Oh, and as to the beastly little rugrat...

Give his mother your most heart-warming smile and say:

"Dear, those jeans are absolutely wonderful on you, and if your little monster hits my dog one more time I'm going to kick your ass out of them and into the next county!"

Repeat as required, but leave out the talking part. Just kick her ass. :D

HarmNone, with more advice

[crazymage]

stop whining and make me and your man some PIE

[Sweets]

Originally posted by crazymage
stop whining and make me and your man some PIE

Okay...Okay..you're a pig...now stop saying that. It's getting old.

[Myshel]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Any woman who finds herself in a building with her male significant other who is in a pissy mood should realize there is an immediate solution to the problem. Take the car keys, grab the credit card and go shopping! Do it consistently, every time you are confronted with this phenomenon. In most instances, the pissy moods will cease to trouble him. If not, you win anyway! :D

HarmNone, helpful again

OH HarmNone, we so think alike! I also would like to add that this works well when your SO forgets any important occasion, like anniversaries, birthdays, ect. You just go and buy something extremely expensive, have it wrapped and bring out at the appropriate moment, gush and thank him profusely for his thoughtfulness, let him weep when he gets the bill.

[Staerin]

I forsee an insane feminist on the loose in the near future! Everytime someone asks for a pie from now on, there's going to be an assault by Sweets.

[Sweets]

Originally posted by Staerin
I forsee an insane feminist on the loose in the near future! Everytime someone asks for a pie from now on, there's going to be an assault by Sweets.


Did you say PIE! *screams, gabbers, and approaches menacingly*

[crazymage]

If she was in the damn kitchen making the men in her life pies she wouldnt be able to whine about my posting about pies!

[Betheny]

I don't understand why you'd be upset.

I mean, it seems like you kind of talked him into agreeing to plans in the first place, and it sounds also like he wasn't too keen on it... so... why are you surprised?

Another thing being, can't you just do it another night? Or do you have a tight schedule?

[Ylena]

Jesae,

Think about why this is bothering you so much. From an outside perspective, it seems like a small thing to be this upset about. Six years is a long time. I know I stayed in a bad relationship that I was unhappy with for years because of inertia -- it was easier to maintain the status quo. Are you sure that you're getting what you want and need out of this relationship? Are there other things that consistently bother you that you keep ignoring?

Originally posted by HarmNone
Any woman who finds herself in a building with her male significant other who is in a pissy mood should realize there is an immediate solution to the problem. Take the car keys, grab the credit card and go shopping! Do it consistently, every time you are confronted with this phenomenon. In most instances, the pissy moods will cease to trouble him. If not, you win anyway! :D

HarmNone, helpful again

In your world maybe, In mine the credit card would get cancled, she would get her own that she has to pay off<with her own money not mine.> so it does not affect MY credit.

[DeV]

In your world maybe, In mine the credit card would get cancled, she would get her own that she has to pay off<with her own money not mine.> so it does not affect MY credit. This is why every woman should have her own 'emergency' credit card on hand. One that she pays for <with her own money.>

[Betheny]

I never go shopping...

I just play GS or something.

yes but harmnone's intention was to punish the man, or at least thats how I took it.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by The Edine
yes but harmnone's intention was to punish the man, or at least thats how I took it.

You took it wrongly, Edine. There is no punishment involved or intended. The point is simple. We are both doing something that we enjoy doing.

If he wants to call the entertainment shots on his end, she is entitled to call the entertainment shots on her end. If her entertainment happens to be shopping, so be it.

His dinner out with "brutha" is going to cost something, no? As long as she keeps her spending within reasonable limits, she is being entertained and he is being entertained, each in the way they, personally, choose. :)

Oddly enough, it has proven true in my experience that men tend to stop getting quite so controlling about how leisure time is spent when the other side of the relationship finds her own entertainment. Women might react the same way. I have no idea. I only know what has worked for me, and my idea of entertainment was shopping! :D

HarmNone, recovering shop-a-holic

[Galleazzo]

Oddly enough, it has proven true in my experience that men tend to stop getting quite so controlling about how leisure time is spent when the other side of the relationship finds her own entertainment. Women might react the same way. I have no idea.
Big time. I don't want it dictated to me how I'm to spend my time. But I'll be damned if I dictate how my lady spends HER time. As long as we get us-time, I'm down with weekends away, nights doing other things, all of that. It's only fair.

[TheEschaton]

Shit, HN, if she's spending her own money, she can buy whatever the hell she wants. I, too, thought you meant take the guy's credit card (or a joint checkbook) and go to town.


-TheE-

[HarmNone]

I have never been a controlling person. It is not in my make-up to be. I do not put strings on how someone spends their leisure time, and I do not tolerate strings being placed on my leisure time. For someone to feel that they can tell anybody where they will go, and what they will do, is unthinkable to me whether that someone be myself or another.

As for the credit card, I have always maintained my own accounts. I do not need, nor do I wish, to be supported. However, if both halves of a relationship work and the money is kept jointly, then the money belongs to both people, not just to one. Entertainment expenses would be handled in the same way...as something accruing to both partners equally. :)

HarmNone

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
Shit, HN, if she's spending her own money, she can buy whatever the hell she wants. I, too, thought you meant take the guy's credit card (or a joint checkbook) and go to town.


-TheE-

She is as entitled to use a "joint" checkbook for her entertainment expenses as he is to use it for his. That's what is meant by "joint" (at least, in this case ;) ). I specified that she should keep her expenses within reason; therefore, in keeping with economic realities, did I not?

HarmNone

[TheEschaton]

As for the credit card, I have always maintained my own accounts. I do not need, nor do I wish, to be supported. However, if both halves of a relationship work and the money is kept jointly, then the money belongs to both people, not just to one. Entertainment expenses would be handled in the same way...as something accruing to both partners equally.

This is my mother's philosophy. However, here's the difference. My father makes somewhere upwards of 7 figures a year, she makes 50 grand a year. His contribution to the joint checking account is far greater. But she's the one who spends most of the cash.

Somehow, he can deal with it (he's such a simple guy, her spending a lot means nothing), but I would go apeshit, if she spent all the money, most of which I had made. Not because I spend a lot, but because it spits in the face of the "I am equal to you, I don't need your money" attitude that my mother, and many women do take. They don't need the money....but they're sure as hell willing to buy a $20,000 painting for the living room.

As you may be able to tell: I'm my father's son.

-TheE-

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by TheEschaton

As for the credit card, I have always maintained my own accounts. I do not need, nor do I wish, to be supported. However, if both halves of a relationship work and the money is kept jointly, then the money belongs to both people, not just to one. Entertainment expenses would be handled in the same way...as something accruing to both partners equally.

This is my mother's philosophy. However, here's the difference. My father makes somewhere upwards of 7 figures a year, she makes 50 grand a year. His contribution to the joint checking account is far greater. But she's the one who spends most of the cash.

Somehow, he can deal with it (he's such a simple guy, her spending a lot means nothing), but I would go apeshit, if she spent all the money, most of which I had made. Not because I spend a lot, but because it spits in the face of the "I am equal to you, I don't need your money" attitude that my mother, and many women do take. They don't need the money....but they're sure as hell willing to buy a $20,000 painting for the living room.

As you may be able to tell: I'm my father's son.

-TheE-

If your father "can deal with it" and you would "go apeshit", I fail to see how you are your father's son. ;)

As for the $20,000 painting for the home, such a thing will be enjoyed by both parties in the relationship, eh? It will also be enjoyed by those they entertain in order to maintain your father's social position (I'm guessing at that one, so I might be wrong.).

Have you ever asked your father how he feels about this? I would be interested in his take on your mother's spending habits. It obviously bothers you much more than it bothers him. :)

HarmNone

[TheEschaton]

My father would of rather used the 20,000 to give to a worthwhile charity.

And I meant I'm my father's son in that sense of the phrase. Obviously, he's a bit peeved at the idea that someone would spend that kind of money on paint slathered on a canvas, but he handles it a bit better than I do.

-TheE-

[HarmNone]

In my opinion, home decor is not the sole responsiblity of the female partner in a relationship. It is shared between the two partners. However, if your father feels the way you describe, he has the responsibility to communicate that to your mother. If he does not do so, how can she know how he feels. We do not learn the feelings of another through osmosis. For the most part, we must be told.

HarmNone

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
As for the $20,000 painting for the home, such a thing will be enjoyed by both parties in the relationship, eh?Paintings are ridiculously overrated.

[TheEschaton]

He tells my mother constantly. She just ignores him. Says his career has held her down her whole life (she has two masters, working on her Ph.D., works for the state, and owns her own business. That's about as good as you can get, in social work), so she has a right to spend his money.

At the end of the day, it wouldn't bother me, if my mother accepted herself for who she was - but she's the one who flouts her Christianity/Catholicism and always acts the martyr. And when someone points out her hypocrisy, she always goes on the martyr parade. Ah well.

-TheE-
Gah, I just realized I have over 1000 posts. That's pathetic.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
He tells my mother constantly. She just ignores him. Says his career has held her down her whole life (she has two masters, working on her Ph.D., works for the state, and owns her own business. That's about as good as you can get, in social work), so she has a right to spend his money.

At the end of the day, it wouldn't bother me, if my mother accepted herself for who she was - but she's the one who flouts her Christianity/Catholicism and always acts the martyr. And when someone points out her hypocrisy, she always goes on the martyr parade. Ah well.

-TheE-
Gah, I just realized I have over 1000 posts. That's pathetic.

So, in effect, it is not your mother's profligate spending that unnerves you. It is her hypocrisy. That is another issue entirely.

Personally, I have never been a wild and crazy spender. Yet, if such behavior by your mother has been tolerated by your dad, a precedent has been set. It will have to be broken for the behavior to be mitigated.

Most women who are married to men whose careers require a great deal of maintenance (in the way of parties, entertaining, glad-handing, and other such lovely garbage) do not have it all that easy, in my experience. I have been there and done that. I did not consider it fun.

While I agree with your father that the money could have been better spent, your mother may feel that appearances must be kept up. It is something for them to discuss, really. I can see both sides; although, my own leanings would lead me to your father's side.

HarmNone

[Myshel]

Most married people have the same pocket, money wise. In mature longstanding relationship, both have an idea of needs of their financial situation. Even in the days of plenty of money in our life, I was never foolish in spending money we needed to maintain our bills, investments, so forth. I had a certain amount that I spent on household bills, the kids, shopping. Sometimes I did spend it all, sometimes I didn't and put it away until I needed it. Its irresponsible for women or men to depend on the money making party to keep check on all the financial needs of a family. Did he moan and groan when I hit the stores? Sure, he did, did I care? Nawwww, because I know if we couldn't afford it, I wouldn't do it.