Spellburst, revisited

[Gibreficul]

So, I want to share with the rest of the group my recent findings on Spellburst with hopes we can get some further testing.

First, a quick review of what we think is true, and know to be true:
A) Spellburst effects Temple Wyneb, OTF, and Nelemar.
B) Only unknown non-group spells count toward spellburst
C) Level IS a factor
D) Ranks / 3 IS WRONG
E) Learnable spells count as half mana for spellburst cost.
F) Some spells have modified cost values for spellburst purposes.

So, where does this take us? Well, I'll show you...

((AS Ranks + MIU Ranks + HP Ranks + Spell Aiming Ranks) + 0.5(Control ranks + Lore ranks)) / (225 / level) = wearable mana.

That's what I'm working with right now. It seems to fit. A level 91 warrior just tested against his calculated max and it was spot on. If anybody out there is effected by spellburst and could test their known limits versus that formula, especially non-capped characters, your input is greatly appreciated. I'm hoping that maybe, with the above formula, we can end this discussion for good.

:club:

[Mogonis]

G) I should really be using affect.

[Nuc]

B) Only unknown non-group spells count toward spellburst



Just to clarify, are you saying spells like mass blur and bard songs don't count towards spellburst?

[Sylvan Dreams]

I believe Arcane circle spells don't count towards your max either.

[Izzy]

Just to clarify, are you saying spells like mass blur and bard songs don't count towards spellburst?

There's a difference between active group spells and group-cast spells. Group-cast spells: Blurs, mass colors, and mass guards do count against you (blurs rather heavily, IIRC)
Active group spells: 310, 307, and bard songs do not.

This is my understanding of the matter, at least.

[Asrial]

920 will make you spellburst!

[Nuc]

There's a difference between active group spells and group-cast spells. Group-cast spells: Blurs, mass colors, and mass guards do count against you (blurs rather heavily, IIRC)
Active group spells: 310, 307, and bard songs do not.

This is my understanding of the matter, at least.

What about paladin group spells and spells that become group spells as a result of lores?

[DaCapn]

Does 511 count against you for purposes of spellburst?

[Sylvan Dreams]

Disk doesn't seem to count from my experiences. I bet most paladin spells don't count with the exception of Mantle of Faith (1601) since that is directly cast on another person.

[Mogonis]

You don't "wear" 511. Are there any areas that actually blow up your disk?

[Izzy]

What about paladin group spells and spells that become group spells as a result of lores?

Which do you mean? The only paladin group spells I can recall are 1605, 1609 and 1617 which are always group spells. I don't know for sure, but I would suspect that similarly to the others they do not count against spellburst. The only spells that I can think of that become group cast are 211, 215, and 219. My thoughts would be the same: these would not count against your burst.

Again, this is all pure conjecture on my part base on what I've read. I've done absolutely zero testing on the matter.

[Kitsun]

211/215/219 don't seem to affect spellburst when you have the lores to push them into group form. At least my rogue has never burst.

[BigWorm]

211/215/219 don't seem to affect spellburst when you have the lores to push them into group form. At least my rogue has never burst.

I can confirm that this is my experience as well with 211/215. Haven't tested with 219 but now that I think about it that would be a damn useful one to have in Nelemar.

[crb]

211/215/219 don't seem to affect spellburst when you have the lores to push them into group form. At least my rogue has never burst.

When you have lores, or when the person in your group has the lores?

Whether or not the person in the group actually did the casting?

[crb]

So, I want to share with the rest of the group my recent findings on Spellburst with hopes we can get some further testing.

First, a quick review of what we think is true, and know to be true:
A) Spellburst effects Temple Wyneb, OTF, and Nelemar.
B) Only unknown non-group spells count toward spellburst
C) Level IS a factor
D) Ranks / 3 IS WRONG
E) Learnable spells count as half mana for spellburst cost.
F) Some spells have modified cost values for spellburst purposes.

So, where does this take us? Well, I'll show you...

((AS Ranks + MIU Ranks + HP Ranks + Spell Aiming Ranks) + 0.5(Control ranks + Lore ranks)) / (225 / level) = wearable mana.

That's what I'm working with right now. It seems to fit. A level 91 warrior just tested against his calculated max and it was spot on. If anybody out there is effected by spellburst and could test their known limits versus that formula, especially non-capped characters, your input is greatly appreciated. I'm hoping that maybe, with the above formula, we can end this discussion for good.

:club:

And the problem of course is... your point F

Gotta know those values.

[Kitsun]

I can confirm that this is my experience as well with 211/215. Haven't tested with 219 but now that I think about it that would be a damn useful one to have in Nelemar.


When you have lores, or when the person in your group has the lores?

Whether or not the person in the group actually did the casting?

At least one person understood me.

My rogue, who does not have Bravery/Heroism/Opals, does not burst when he gets the group cast benefit from my Cleric, who does have the lores to make it a group cast spell.

[mgoddess]

The only paladin group spells I can recall are 1605, 1609 and 1617 which are always group spells.
Add 1618 to that list... and yes, 1605/1609/1617/1618 are group spells. If you leave the paladin's group, the spell wears off within a minute or so (like bard songs, cleric spells, etc.).

[phantasm]

Group spells that aren't affected by spell burst

211/215/219 (group version)

307
310

1605
1609
1617
1618

Bard songs

[Asrial]

Does 511 count against you for purposes of spellburst?920 does because it actually says "Call Familiar" in your spell active list. Sucks!

[crb]

At least one person understood me.

My rogue, who does not have Bravery/Heroism/Opals, does not burst when he gets the group cast benefit from my Cleric, who does have the lores to make it a group cast spell.

What I was wondering is if there was a bug whereby if you cast 215 from say a scroll but then joined the group of a cleric who could group cast it, it'd not burst because it thought it was group cast.

[Kithor]

1125 is also a group spell that does not count toward spellburst

[Gibreficul]

:ohshit: 3 pages (well, 2 and the start of a 3rd.)

Alright, let's see where I can elaborate. First, great replies from all you with the "group" spells. Saved me the effort.


And the problem of course is... your point F

Gotta know those values.

Right. That's what I was getting to.

From my experience, a handful of spells have a "greater" value than our current system of determining the spell value. (base spell cost of the spell, unless it's learnable, then it's halved.) These few spells seem to start with Strength (509) and include spells like 215, 219, 511, 618, 712. Someone said they're "spells of power" or some BS like that. Whatever. The important part is that the error, or "modification" never seemed to be more than 1 mana increase, and in most cases, a .5 mana increase made all the numbers play real nice. (I've been trying to locate the drive with those damn spreadsheets on em.) I'll elaborate more when I'm not going off what I remember from 2 years ago about my "elemental mana debacle." Cliff's Notes version, elemental mana seemed to be slightly more volatile than spirit mana.

So... to the Lich people out there... one of my many many undertakings of late has been a script to calculate your wearable mana using the formula I posted. That part is done... I'll share it in a code box below. The second part is going to take some doing, because I'm not Tillmen and don't know the easy way to do it. I want it to check all the spells you're wearing and calculate whether or not you're safe in a spellburst environment and if so, let you know if you have "open mana" available.

Here's the script:


#gibs_burst_calculator.lic
# Calculates potential spellbursts and whatnot
# Another script from Gibreficul.

level = Char.level
miu = Skills.magicitemuse
as = Skills.arcanesymbols
hp = Skills.harnesspower
sa = Skills.spellaiming
emc = Skills.emc
smc = Skills.smc
mmc = Skills.mmc
ela = Skills.elair
ele = Skills.elearth
elf = Skills.elfire
elw = Skills.elwater
slb = Skills.slblessings
slr = Skills.slreligion
sls = Skills.slsummoning
sld = Skills.sldemonology
sln = Skills.slnecromancy
mld = Skills.mldivination
mlm = Skills.mlmanipulation
mlte = Skills.mltelepathy
mltc = Skills.mltransference
mltm = Skills.mltransformation

prime_stats = as + miu + sa + hp
second_stats = emc + mmc + smc + ela + ele + elf + elw + slb + slr + sls + sld + sln + mld + mlm + mlte + mltc + mltm
burst_factor = (225.0 / level)
burst_mana = (prime_stats + (second_stats / 2.0)) / burst_factor
respond "*** gibs_burst_calc has calculated your wearable mana is #{burst_mana} ***"

Enjoy.

Any input on the accuracy or lack thereof of the current formula is greatly appreciated.

[Gibreficul]

gibs_burst_calc.lic is up on the repo... gives an output something like this...


--- Lich: gibs_burst_calc active.
Gibs spellburst calculator has determined you are wearing the following outside spells: 101, 103, 107, 202, 503, 509, 601, 911, 9505
you are wearing 31.5 spellburst mana.
Your calculated limit is 53.78
you are 22.28 mana under your calculated limit
--- Lich: gibs_burst_calc has exited.

Enjoy. Fair warning, it's probably not accurate for pures, and the more ranks you have, the less accurate it will be, since I don't know how to compensate (or have the ranks myself to test) for depreciating returns.

[AnticorRifling]

Ft Meyers FL phone number? ZOMG he's selling fiber and time shares!

[Gibreficul]

I blew up and my script said I had six mana to spare! It took mobiles to do it... fixskills is coming up. I think I'm going to have to be a misreable bastard while I retest. Big on the agenda is spell cost modifications...more to come in may, I guess.

Posted via motodroid.

[Durgrimst]

I am not smart at all when it comes to spell burst, but... I did just think of something.

You can probably determine all the spells that have extra cost by testing to see how much they charge at the ADV Guild to recharge an item with that spell in it. I highly doubt there will be a direct relationship between recharge cost and spell burst value, but it might help to determine which spells are throwing a kink in your formula.

[Morrff]

Here's how a 2x capped pure wizard bursts in style!

You suddenly feel the essence surrounding you shift and writhe chaotically!
Spell Spell Shield (219) ended. [-30BoltDS, -30STD]
(Effect lasted for approximately 31m 49s.)
The opalescent aura fades from around you.
... 60 points of damage!
Horrifying jolt of electricity fries abdomen to a crisp. Upper torso falls to the ground. Talk about repugnant!
Spell Sign of Defending (Defending) ended. [-10DS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15m 43s.)
Your SIGN OF DEFENDING is no longer effective.
Spell Spirit Barrier (102) ended. [+20PhysAS, -20DS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 31m 26s.)
The air calms down around you.
Spell Prayer of Protection (303) ended. [-59DS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 8s.)
A white glow rushes away from you.
Spell Sign of Smiting (Smiting) ended. [-10AS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15m 50s.)
Your SIGN OF SMITING is no longer effective.
Spell Elemental Defense III (414) ended. [-20DS, -15ETD]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15h 48m.)
The brilliant luminescence fades from around you.
Spell Prismatic Guard (905) ended. [-28PhysDS, -43BoltDS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 13h 50m.)
The shimmering multicolored sphere fades from around you.
Spell Spirit Shield (202) ended. [-10DS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 48m.)
The dim aura fades from around you.
Spell Elemental Focus (513) ended. [-63BoltAS, +20PhysAS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15h 44m.)
You no longer bristle with energy.
Spell Sign of Warding (Warding) ended. [-5DS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15m 43s.)
Your SIGN OF WARDING is no longer effective.
Spell Disease Resist (104) ended.
(Effect lasted for approximately 18s.)
You lose your extra internal fortitude.
Spell Thurfel's Ward (503) ended. [-44DS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15h 45m.)
The glowing specks of energy surrounding you suddenly shoot off in all directions, then quickly fade away.
Spell Strength (509) ended. [-15Str, -15PhysAS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15h 45m.)
You feel your extra strength departing.
Spell Elemental Bias (508) ended. [-20ETD]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15h 45m.)
You feel your extra magical awareness leave you.
Spell Elemental Barrier (430) ended. [-37DS, -37ETD]
(Effect lasted for approximately 48m 32s.)
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves you.
Spell Elemental Defense II (406) ended. [-10DS, -10ETD]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15h 46m.)
The bright luminescence fades from around you.
Spell Sign of Swords (Swords) ended. [-20AS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15m 47s.)
Your SIGN OF SWORDS is no longer effective.
Spell Sign of Shields (Shields) ended. [-20DS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15m 48s.)
Your SIGN OF SHIELDS is no longer effective.
Spell Heroism (215) ended. [-25AS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 31m 39s.)
The brilliant aura fades away from you.
Spell Purify Air (207) ended.
(Effect lasted for approximately 48m 03s.)
Your breathing becomes more shallow.
Spell Water Walking (112) ended.
(Effect lasted for approximately 4h 40m.)
The misty halo fades from you.
Spell Dauntless (1606) ended. [-10AS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 31m 09s.)
Your boosted confidence and fearlessness fade.
Spell Sign of Striking (Striking) ended. [-5AS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15m 50s.)
Your SIGN OF STRIKING is no longer effective.
Spell Mobility (618) ended. [-20Dodging]
(Effect lasted for approximately 3h 36m.)
You no longer feel so dextrous.
Spell Spirit Warding I (101) ended. [-10STD, -10BoltDS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 49m 18s.)
The light blue glow leaves you.
Spell Phoen's Strength (606) ended. [-10AS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 32s.)
You feel the inner strength leave you.
Spell Resist Elements (602) ended. [-15BoltDS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 1h 12m.)
The air about you stops shimmering.
Spell Spirit Defense (103) ended. [-10DS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 48m 09s.)
The powerful look leaves you.
Spell Bravery (211) ended. [-15AS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 31m 31s.)
You feel less confident.
Your sense of faith and conviction wanes.
The brilliant, rapidly shifting aura around you shimmers and bursts in a bright flash!
Spell Lesser Shroud (120) ended. [-20STD, -25DS, -25BoltDS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 5s.)
The very powerful look leaves you.
The white light leaves you.
Spell Natural Colors (601) ended. [-10DS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 3h 36m.)
You return to normal color.
Spell Unpresence (204) ended.
(Effect lasted for approximately 48m 07s.)
You feel less secure.
Spell Warding Sphere (310) ended. [-20DS, -20TD]
(Effect lasted for approximately 16m 04s.)
You suddenly feel less protected.
Spell Stone Skin (520) ended.
(Effect lasted for approximately 48m 38s.)
The layer of stone surrounding you crumbles away.
Spell Poison Resist (105) ended.
(Effect lasted for approximately 4h 40m.)
You notice your blood flow go back to normal.
Spell Sign of Staunching (Staunching) ended.
(Effect lasted for approximately 15m 42s.)
Your SIGN OF STAUNCHING is no longer effective.
Spell Elemental Targeting (425) ended. [-50AS, -50ECS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 48m 35s.)
You feel less confident than before.
Spell Sign of Deflection (Deflect) ended. [-20BoltDS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15m 42s.)
Your SIGN OF DEFLECTION is no longer effective.
Spell Spirit Warding II (107) ended. [-15STD, -25BoltDS]
(Effect lasted for approximately 13s.)
The deep blue glow leaves you.
Spell Elemental Defense I (401) ended. [-5DS, -5ETD]
(Effect lasted for approximately 15h 47m.)
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.

It seems you have died, my friend. Although you cannot do anything, you are keenly aware of what is going on around you...

You mentally give a sigh of relief as you remember that the Goddess Lorminstra owes you a favor.

...departing in 10 mins...
Spell Minor Sanctuary (213) ended.
The sense of peace and security passes away from the area.

[Drunken Durfin]

--- Lich: gibs_burst_calc active.

Outside spells: [101, 103, 107, 120, 202, 211, 401, 406, 414, 503, 506, 509, 601, 606, 911, 1712]

Limit: 117.00
Current: 77.50

You are UNDER by 39.50 mana

--- Lich: gibs_burst_calc has exited.

You suddenly feel the essence surrounding you shift and writhe chaotically!
You feel less confident.
... 5 points of damage!
Mild electric jolt jolts your whole body. Talk about a nervous twitch.
You are stunned for 1 round!
You suddenly feel the essence surrounding you shift and writhe chaotically!
The glowing specks of energy surrounding you suddenly shoot off in all directions, then quickly fade away.
... 10 points of damage!
Burst of flames to head catches ears on fire! Yeeoww!



Calculation seems to be off just a bit.

My skills at present:


Durfin (at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 341 241
Combat Maneuvers...................| 302 202
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 318 218
Ambush.............................| 145 45
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 50 10
Physical Fitness...................| 380 280
Dodging............................| 302 202
Arcane Symbols.....................| 201 101
Magic Item Use.....................| 201 101
Harness Power......................| 140 40
Elemental Mana Control.............| 90 20
Spirit Mana Control................| 90 20
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 15 3
Survival...........................| 201 101
Stalking and Hiding................| 25 5
Perception.........................| 140 40
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 180 80
First Aid..........................| 203 103
Trading............................| 210 110

[Taluric]

Just a passing thought, but has anyone considered a formula penalty when wearing over X number of outside spells which could possible account for the differences at extreme numbers of them?

I'm not well versed in spellburst so this may have been addressed / accepted / disregarded or even out of possibility due to NIR posts.

Tal, player of.

[mgoddess]

Just a passing thought, but has anyone considered a formula penalty when wearing over X number of outside spells which could possible account for the differences at extreme numbers of them?
Or if you're over X amount of mana in outside spells?

[Gibreficul]

Just a passing thought, but has anyone considered a formula penalty when wearing over X number of outside spells which could possible account for the differences at extreme numbers of them?

I'm not well versed in spellburst so this may have been addressed / accepted / disregarded or even out of possibility due to NIR posts.

Tal, player of.

Or if you're over X amount of mana in outside spells?

I'd almost lay bets this isn't the case, but it can't be disregarded. It seems way more likely that the benefits from the ranks depreciate. The problem, once again, is not what we know, but what we don't know.