bullseye

[i remember halloween]

this morning an israeli helicopter turned the founder and spiritual leader of hamas into a blood spatter on the road. this is a good day.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by i remember halloween]

[Hulkein]

It's Bullseye.

/end bob

[i remember halloween]

yea whatever

Woohooo!

[Hulkein]

Good news it is.. Another step in the right direction.

[Siefer]

That's real good. Now 20 Israeli kids are going to die in response sometime this week.

[GSTamral]

I'm rather ambivalent. Chop off the head, another grows. I view the muslims and the jews as equally irresponsible children who are causing all kinds of problems for everyone else.

The United States, feeling like a father figure to Israel, and bowing to Jewish lobbying, have taken an unequivocal siding with Israel, even though it is plainly obvious to anyone who isnt a fuckup that this problem isnt one sided, and that there is more than just a simple issue of land involved.

Devout and Fundamentalist Muslims are by definition uneducated and extremist in their beliefs. Taking away holy land, (which they are currently classifying as anything in which Muslim feet have ever stepped on, including the massacres and genocide the muslim fundamentalists are imposing in Sudan), is a crime that can only be punished by death.

Israel is doing much the same. Continuing to take more and more land away, and using the terrorism as a vehicle to take even more land. In the case of Israel, the government of Israel itself is the terrorist organization.

I honestly think more than half the world's problems would end if both countries were firebombed to the ground with no survivors. No children, no dogs, no women, nothing. If muslims and jews cannot be responsible adults as a people and stop fucking around, it should fall upon the shoulders of the rest of the world to kill all the jews and muslims in that entire region in order to protect world stability.

Other muslim nations are using it as a launching board to make their own terroristic and childish activities. Muslims are committing genocide in Sudan and Nigeria. I dont see the pope doing much to help aside from just token condemning just about everything.

When religion drives us to violence, it is the worst type that can last for ages. The Jews of Israel have elected a terrorist for president, and Muslims are too childish to separate religion from state. Survival of the fittest should have removed these people from existence long ago but alas, it has not. We can only hope a few nuclear warheads accidentally blow up in the region and stop the violence by eliminating the people...

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by GSTamral]

[i remember halloween]

i would support the mutual destruction of the muslim and jewish worlds too.

[GSTamral]

You know, maybe you misconstrued the basic point. I would support the destruction of fundamentalist anything, not just muslims and jews. It's just that currently, they are the ones making the most problems. Fundamentalist christians arent saints either. Neither are fundamentalists from any religion.

I actually like the change in france that bans religious wear in schools. Teach kids now to seperate beliefs from law, and maybe we might have law at some point in time.

Being agnostic, I believe it is entirely possible to believe in God however one wishes, be it christianity, islam, judaism, buddhism, hindu, or anything without attempting to impose those beliefs upon others and employing those beliefs into actions against others. Someone who intrudes on my doorstep and rings the doorbell promoting a bible will meet the same fuck off as someone with a copy of the Quran.

You may not think of active conversion as being extremist, but in truth, thats where it starts. If I was interested in becoming christian, I'd fucking show up at a church and ask about it. Don't hand me a scare pamphlet about how people go to hell if they arent Christian. I'll concern myself simply with good morals as opposed to murdering people and then confessing, as though that makes it all ok.

Its about time humanity grows up a little and realizes this, but it hasnt happened for most of the world, because they are raised in a way that prevents them doing anything other than hurting other people in the name of their god. It is sad, but one could look simply at history and see how fundamentalist culture and law has set the world back hundreds upon hundreds upon thousands of years back from where it could be.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by GSTamral
I'll concern myself simply with good morals as opposed to murdering people and then confessing, as though that makes it all ok. You have a very tenuous grasp on Christian teachings. I'll be sure to send you a pamphlet.

[i remember halloween]

i don't argue that religion is the plague of humanity at this point of civilization, but that is irrelevant now. the battle lines have been drawn and the flames of war rage. destroying religion will not extinguish this fire, only death will.

[peam]

Looks to be the start of an interesting week in the Middle East.

[i remember halloween]

definitely, peam, definitely.

[GSTamral]

Latrinstorm, it was an exaggeration, but I would consider my grasp on general christian teachings to be more than enough to know that it isnt for me.

By my eyes, a person who swears 12 times a week and confesses to them will still go to hell faster than someone who swears 11 times a week and doesnt because that isnt their custom. That's truly how simple it is.

Religion to me is nothing more than attaching a nice story to a set of morals that teaches people to act in a respectable manner. If you understand and grasp the morals without the story, then it is unnecessary to read or believe the stories.

And tell me then, does Christian teachings tell you to seize the properties and assets and arrest anyone who publicly speaks out against you? Does it further teach you to disavow knowledge of ever having arresting him, without a public apology to his kin and grandchildren once you found out he was indeed right?

When the pope grows enough balls to give restitution to the current relational kin of the likes of Gallileo and others who's lives the church destroyed because they said the earth wasnt the center of the universe, I'll look at the institution and the politics of the christian religion in a different light. Give the family the assets along with 600+ years of compounded interest that were seized. Give them an apology. If the pope is incapable of apologizing, well then, in my mind, he is a bad man, because he has a god complex.

You know, I was always wondering, because I have read the King James Bible and I never saw anywhere within it does Jesus, or even God argue for an institutionalization of priests. From where in the bible does the roots of a position like the pope come from?

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by GSTamral]

Only problem with what France is doin Tamral is they are imposing the" Lack of a God "on the subjects of the French government. As long as once beliefs do not do harm to others people should be free to do as they wish.

[GSTamral]

Edine, wearing religious garb is basically free advertising of religion. In my department at the office, I will give someone a stern warning if they are wearing anything that symbolizes a religion out in the open. I don't care what your beliefs are, but don't advertise it. No Yamakas, no crosses, no muslim women headdresses. That's what grown up environments should be like.

And you will get fired for doing so, I highly doubt there is anything in your companies Dress Code against wearing things of a religious nature.
Im sure you will tell me otherwise though.

[Hulkein]

Even a small crucifix on a chain? You'd give a warning for that?

[i remember halloween]

forbidding people to practice religion in an establishment which they do not control is hardly wrong on any level. as much as i hate the french, i applaud their efforts.

he said exposed hulkein. under a shirt i'm sure the chain would be acceptable.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by i remember halloween]

[GSTamral]

Actually, corporate policy does not allow for any type of religious garb of any sort. MOST companies in America that have a formal dress code have in place such policy. If you are wearing a cross outside your shirt whilst wearing a suit, that is extremely inappropriate. Even in environments that are business casual, even beards are banned, let alone elaborate religious get-ups. You can wear whatever the fuck you want at home, and outside the office environment.

and if one comes into work with ash on their forehead?

[GSTamral]

Hulkein, if you wanted to wear a cross, thats fine. If you want to carry around a copy of the Quran, knock yourself out. Other people better not be able to see it though. Under your shirt is fine. In your inside jacket pocket, no problem.

[GSTamral]

<<
and if one comes into work with ash on their forehead?
>>

They'd be sent home and written up. In 3 years, I have only once seen someone be written up for dress code, and that was a new employee who wore open toe shoes to work, because she honestly didnt know they were unacceptable. We run a professional environment, and luckily, everyone working there likes the money they make enough not to make a ruckus over something so stupid as being able to flaunt something with clothing.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Hulkein, if you wanted to wear a cross, thats fine. If you want to carry around a copy of the Quran, knock yourself out. Other people better not be able to see it though. Under your shirt is fine. In your inside jacket pocket, no problem.

Yeah, I agree with keep it under the shirt too. I didn't really think about that right away.

[GSTamral]

I tell you what Edine. The first job you get, during a meeting, stand up, face south-southeast and kneel and chant.

When people ask you what you were doing, tell them you have to pray 5 times a day, and this is a scheduled time. Just watch what happens.

I would like to see said policy, Living in the area I do there are a large number of people from India who wear turbans, my work being in the middle of the largest corporate area outside of the city of Chicago, they more often than not come in wearing suits... Mind You I rather enjoy taking care of them, many are partial to Cartier, and at $750-$1500 the spiffs are nice.

Originally posted by GSTamral
I tell you what Edine. The first job you get, during a meeting, stand up, face south-southeast and kneel and chant.

When people ask you what you were doing, tell them you have to pray 5 times a day, and this is a scheduled time. Just watch what happens.
The first job I get? I happen to work in the medical profession, as an Optician both ABO and NCLE certified.

ABO= American Board of Opticianry
NCLE= National Contact Lens Examiners

[GSTamral]

Edine, what you are saying does not actually encompass much of anything of a defense to your point. Being a large corporation somewhere in chicago, and being a large multinational corporation are two entirely different animals. Secondly, those people wearing turbans may not necessarily be employees of said corporation, but might be consultants who work there every day. If that is the case, no corporation can force them to not wear such things. They can only force them to wear the jacket and tie to work. Secondly, a turban is not a religious garb for a south Indian. For some sects of the muslim religion it may be, but Hinduism has nothing regarding the wearing of a turban. That I can tell you for a fact as both of my parents are Hindu. The Turban is more of traditional garb than religious. But either way, it is a moot point. Most larger multinational corporations have strict policies regarding the wearing of religious garb in the officeplace environment.

[GSTamral]

Edine, let me rephrase. Your first job in a professional business environment then.

Tamral, Walmart does not force its associates to remove their religious items

And Tamral look up luxottica Group if you question what kind of multinational corporation, if you need I can and will gladly get a handbook and send you the page where in it states that certain things will only be allowed to be warn for religious purposes

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by The Edine]

[GSTamral]

Walmart associates? are you KIDDING me?? Store clerks and managers are not part of corporate you idiot!

And Walmart's corporate offices in Nyack most certainly DO have a ban on just about everything. They are even stricter than we are regarding office clothing.

you should be more specific in your statements then, it is a corporate entity just like any other

And Tamral Walmart's Home office is in Bentonvile AK.

Edit: There is only a store in Nyack.

Then again if you think thats a office....

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by The Edine]

[GSTamral]

Store clerks and managers have to wear a red apron. They don't HAVE a business or even business casual dress code. Inside a Wal-Mart store is not a professional business environment. The assembly line people don't have a dress code either. They can turban up or wear a veil all they want as long as it isnt a safety concern. Inside a corporate office, however, is an entirely different matter, and its also the subject at hand.

[peam]

Damn Tamral, did you actually write the new girl up for wearing the open-toed shoes?

[GSTamral]

Edine, do you have any idea how many corporate satellite offices Walmart has? I mean technically, UPS lists their office in Atlanta, but there are 4 satellite corporate offices in NJ alone (Paramus, Ramsey, Mahwah, and Morristown).

FYI, Walmart does have a corporate office in Nyack, in fact so do we, and just about any other company that uses Welch-Allyn Scanners in operations.

You'd be best served to know what you are talking about regarding the nature of corporate environment before you yahoo information regarding corporate HQ and assume thats the only existing office.

I am afraid you are wrong Tamral, In Walmart ONLY CSM's wear a red vest, other members of management are required to wear professional attire, but you seem to think a Store is a corporate office.

[GSTamral]

nope, I didnt peam, I was just a IE supervisor at the time, so I wouldnt have dared. Not that I cared at the time either. Although, if it happened now, I'd have to.

Im afraid Walmart does not work like that Tamral. If walmart does buisness with you they require you to have a Rep in bentonvile, I worked there for four years Tamral and was in the manager training program when I left the company, I know far more about it than you. so stop making shit up.

[peam]

Edine, a WalMart store isn't a business office setting, try as you might.

CSMs wear red, cashiers and clerks wear blue aprons/smocks, and managers wear business casual.

Peam I am not debating that in the least.

[GSTamral]

Edine, I actually specifically said a store was not a professional environment. That you are not intelligent enough to read isnt my problem. You have obviously never stepped inside a professional environment, and it is so painfully obvious at this point in time, arguing out this point with you is like trying to argue Muslim rights to Ariel Sharon. You can't preach truth to the ignorant who have already made their own pre-conceived notions.

[Mint]

Can an employer regulate the religiously related dress and grooming of its employees? Well, it depends on the circumstances:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/2000e-2.html

Title VII (Equal Employment Opportunity) of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (“Title VII”) prohibit religious discrimination in employment. Specifically, these laws prohibit an employer from discriminating in hiring, firing, promoting, or granting benefits and compensation to employees based on the employees’ religion. Title VII requires that, whenever possible, an employer must offer the employee a “reasonable accommodation” based upon religion.

Employers must reasonably accommodate an employee’s religious beliefs, observances, and practices, unless the employer demonstrates that doing so would create an “undue hardship” on the conduct of the employer’s business. Undue hardship essentially means that the accommodation involves more than an ordinary administrative cost of accommodating the employee’s religious beliefs.

Originally posted by The Edine
you should be more specific in your statements then, it is a corporate entity just like any other

Perhaps you should read what i post then?

[Hulkein]

I don't think it falls under that Title unless they are specifically saying 'JEWS can't wear the Star of David' but Christians can wear a Crucifix. I may be wrong though :shrug: In Tamral's office, all religious items are outlawed, no discrimination in that I don't think.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by Hulkein]

[GSTamral]

Wow, edine, getting a bit upset there?

Edine, tell me something then, if you are so aware of Walmart Business Practices. Since you know all about how they do business and how they order equipment for their individual stores. Tell me then, where are their macro-PDF barcodes developed? Also, which models of scanners does the company use? PSC 8000, or IT 3400/3800?

Maybe if you were important enough in your company to know ALL of their business practices, you'd know all about this whole process.

Originally posted by GSTamral
Edine, I actually specifically said a store was not a professional environment. That you are not intelligent enough to read isnt my problem. You have obviously never stepped inside a professional environment, and it is so painfully obvious at this point in time, arguing out this point with you is like trying to argue Muslim rights to Ariel Sharon. You can't preach truth to the ignorant who have already made their own pre-conceived notions.
What tamral said

What tamral ment

Originally posted by GSTamral
Shit you caught me in a lie, now i gotta make it look like you don't know what your talking about and insult you to get out of this argument before I am exposed

[GSTamral]

While we're at it Edine, since the ONLY walmart corporate office is in Bentonville AK, where is their data center? Where is their automotive HQ? Where are the 4 AS/400 systems with staff that keep track of their active inventory and sales systems?

Originally posted by GSTamral
Wow, edine, getting a bit upset there?

Edine, tell me something then, if you are so aware of Walmart Business Practices. Since you know all about how they do business and how they order equipment for their individual stores. Tell me then, where are their macro-PDF barcodes developed? Also, which models of scanners does the company use? PSC 8000, or IT 3400/3800?

Maybe if you were important enough in your company to know ALL of their business practices, you'd know all about this whole process.

Gee tamral I have not worked there for over a year and a half now, and where did i say i was so important(MT program is far from being important but it seems you dont know that)? I on the other hand do know the way Walmart works.

[GSTamral]

<<
Walmart associates? are you KIDDING me?? Store clerks and managers are not part of corporate you idiot!
>>>

<<<
What tamral ment

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GSTamral
Shit you caught me in a lie, now i gotta make it look like you don't know what your talking about and insult you to get out of this argument before I am exposed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


>>>


Come on Edine, you're uninspired tonight. Is that the best you can come up with? Come on, where's all the holier than thou statements you use when you're losing an argument? Don't I deserve the same attitude and swearing behind the keyboard that everyone else does?

[GSTamral]

Shedine (sorry, catchy name I got from another thread), you were important enough to know EXACTLY how walmart conducts ALL of its business. According to you, all 4 of their AS/400 systems, all of their data centers and storage, and their automotive center, along with everything else corporate is located in Bentonville, AK. In fact, they have no other corporate offices anywhere else in the world because you say so. This is so laughable, thanks Edine, I needed one.

Tamral when do i get that attitude?
It is obvious you do not know what your talking about. Having not worked for the company.
Im sorry that you were cought in a lie.
By the way, Why dont you adress what Mint posted?

Ok Tamral where are the automotive offices located?

[Scott]

Working in a corperate office, we are not allow to wear (display) crosses or any religous emblems. I'm allowed to keep them in my office, however if a client was suppose to be meeting in my office, I would have to take them down (if I had them.)

[Sean]

Why don't you actually address the issue in what he said instead of just nitpicking. As it stands I'm sure we can all seperate working in a corporate office from working as a cashier in a wallmart. If thats true than I don't see why you care where the wallmart head office is and various other unimportant tidbits. Not that I'm really sure what this has to do with "this morning an israeli helicopter turned the founder and spiritual leader of hamas into a blood spatter on the road. this is a good day. " But whatever.

That being said I personally don't have an issue with religious icons being displayed. I have more issue with a person actively trying to convert me. If I walk by someones desk and they have a "Jesus saves" sign or if I walk past a woman whose upbringing says she has to veil her face I don't think twice about it. But I do agree that if you ban one type of icon from the corporate office you have to ban them all, even if its just from the line of sight.

[GSTamral]

What lie Edine? I've BEEN to their corporate office in Nyack. 4-5 miles from the Palisades Center. UPS supply chain solutions was making a bid to work with IBM on their data formatting and speeding up FTP jobs that they use for internal manifesting and inventory stock reports. I know we also work with their scanning applications people regarding the use of the IT 3400 and 3800 scanners for scanning linear barcodes.

As for Mint's point, you havent addressed that point since you chose to get into a spat that you were fighting a hopelessly uphill battle because, simply said, in addition to not knowing what you are talking about regarding a company you claim to have worked for, you simply lack the ability to put a cohesive enough thought together in proper argumentative format to win this spat even if you were right.

Now, to Mint's point, you will find, from a legal perspective, there is a tremendous gray area involved, especially when the company states it strongly values appearance, in which case it can be argued that openly visible clothing that is out of code disturbs the image and hampers/threatens the conducting of business due to possible preconceived notions on the parts of potential clients.

(in short, not wanting to lose a contract to someone who hates christians because someone is wearing a big cross in the open).

Secondly, in the corporate environment, there has yet to be a legal precedant challenging such a case or law, which in the end, for now, leaves it on a company by company basis to interpret it.

[GSTamral]

<<<
Ok Tamral where are the automotive offices located?
>>>

I have no fucking clue. I'm merely pointing out that not all of their corporate activity comes from a single building. I do know that they have an AS/400 and data center in Nyack NY.

Originally posted by GSTamral

I have no fucking clue. I'm merely pointing out that not all of their corporate activity comes from a single building. I do know that they have an AS/400 and data center in Nyack NY.

exactly.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by The Edine]

[GSTamral]

<<<<
Working in a corperate office, we are not allow to wear (display) crosses or any religous emblems. I'm allowed to keep them in my office, however if a client was suppose to be meeting in my office, I would have to take them down (if I had them.)
>>>>

Edine seems to think this is some sort of special law that doesnt actually exist. It's quite comical to see.

[Sean]

Originally posted by The Edine
exactly.

How is this in anyway relevant besides some personal victory that you know where an automotive plant is?

[GSTamral]

Edine, you said they did not have a single corporate office outside of Bentonville. You just said exactly to the point that you were wrong. Thank you for finally admitting that you did not know about any of their satellite offices and that you just wanted to argue for argument's sake. It has been a pleasure.

[Sean]

Seriously can someone tell me how debating where a Corp. HQ is has anything to do with the policies held within? Obviously I'm just refering to located within the continental US and that different rules apply in different countries. Does it really matter if the HQ is located in NJ, NY, IL, MI, etc.?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Tijay
Seriously can someone tell me how debating where a Corp. HQ is has anything to do with the policies held within? Obviously I'm just refering to located within the continental US and that different rules apply in different countries. Does it really matter if the HQ is located in NJ, NY, IL, MI, etc.?

Obviously they are a whole lot cooler if they are in Jersey.:yes:

[GSTamral]

While I'm at it, I'm going to guess that another AS/400 is probably in the Walmart.com HQ in Brisbane, CA.

Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC
7000 Marina Blvd.
Brisbane, CA 94005
650-837-5000

Whoah, holy shit Edine! That corporate office in Arizona must be HUGE!!! the building stretches all the way to California man!!!

Originally posted by GSTamral
Edine, you said they did not have a single corporate office outside of Bentonville. You just said exactly to the point that you were wrong.

no im saying exactly to your admiting that you dont know what you are talking about.
I edited it to highlight what i was talking about since you decided to answer diffrently than was obvious.

[Mint]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Now, to Mint's point, you will find, from a legal perspective, there is a tremendous gray area involved, especially when the company states it strongly values appearance, in which case it can be argued that openly visible clothing that is out of code disturbs the image and hampers/threatens the conducting of business due to possible preconceived notions on the parts of potential clients.

(in short, not wanting to lose a contract to someone who hates christians because someone is wearing a big cross in the open).

Secondly, in the corporate environment, there has yet to be a legal precedant challenging such a case or law, which in the end, for now, leaves it on a company by company basis to interpret it.

Yes, Christians and people of other religions beliefs are not required to check their faith at the door. However employers do have the right to take action and regulate religiously related activities and practices in some narrow circumstances. They do not have to accommodate their employees’ religious practices if they can show that doing so creates an undue hardship.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by Mint]

[Sean]

Originally posted by The Edine

Originally posted by GSTamral
Edine, you said they did not have a single corporate office outside of Bentonville. You just said exactly to the point that you were wrong.

no im saying exactly to your admiting that you dont know what you are talking about.
I edited it to highlight what i was talking about since you decided to answer diffrently than was obvious.

When you say I have no fucking idea out of context then yes it looks bad. He said he has no idea where the automotive office has a base of operations. Seriously this is just getting stupid. Discussing where it is and what happens inside are two seperate topics. Do you really think it matters where it is Edine? Seriously?

Religious icons, my personal opinion already posted in a previous post, do tend to make some people uncomfortable. You or I may not care that someone has a different believe but to some there is a fear of the unknown. Not knowing the significance behind an object can make someone nervous and cause them to draw their own conclusions.

[Mint]

Originally posted by i remember halloween
i would support the mutual destruction of the muslim and jewish worlds too.

Are you American? I just wonder because with an ally like you who the fuck needs enemies. I think your sole purpose in life holloween, is to serve as a warning to others.


[Edited on 3-22-2004 by Mint]

[Mint]

Originally posted by i remember halloween
i don't argue that religion is the plague of humanity at this point of civilization, but that is irrelevant now. the battle lines have been drawn and the flames of war rage. destroying religion will not extinguish this fire, only death will.

You remind me of Einsteins theory. No, not the theory of relativity. His theory that the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

[Sean]

Be nice Mint.

[Mint]

Originally posted by Tijay
Be nice Mint.

I vented, I am done now. Heh.

[SpunGirl]

This thread is proof that Wal-Mart takes over everything evenutally.

-K

[Skirmisher]

True.

"Wal-Mart Named No. 1 on Fortune 500 List"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&ncid=749&e=1&u=/nm/20040321/bs_nm/media_fortunemagzine_500list_dc

[SpunGirl]

Wal-Mart is for White Trash that doesn't care that it's White Trash.

Target is the poor man's Pier 1.

Pier 1 is for people who can't afford Ethan Allen but wish they could.

-K

[Skirmisher]

Don't resist......join us.....

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by GSTamral
<<<
Ok Tamral where are the automotive offices located?
>>>

I have no fucking clue. I'm merely pointing out that not all of their corporate activity comes from a single building. I do know that they have an AS/400 and data center in Nyack NY.

An AS/400 and data center does not a corporate office make. I can google all day about Walmart and try to guess where shit is.. doesn't mean I know anything.

Feel free to do the same with Hilton Hotel Corporation.. of which I am employed. I'll give you a clue.. there is more than one "Corporate Office" in the United States.

As big as Walmart is.. I would guess that there are many many 'offices' around the country they use.. a computer system doesn't prove it is a corporate office though.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by Parkbandit]

[longshot]

Originally posted by SpunGirl

Target is the poor man's Pier 1.

-K

We used to joke about that too.

No, no! It's not Target, it's "Tar'jhey"!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I sometimes do business in my truck, it is an automotive office.

HAHAHAHAHA

But seriously, back to your regularly scheduled pissing contest Edine and Tamral.

PS - WALMART PWNZ, poor man white trash my ass. Its a convient shop for folks at equitable prices. Don't be hating because it "won" its target audience (Like say, Microsoft, AOL, George Bush, Brittany Spears).

[Edaarin]

Some of my hallmates from Chattanooga last year were talkin about how they used to hang out at Wal-Mart after school...I thought they were just hicks but I later found out it's the cool thing to do in the south...? I digress...

I'll back up Tijay and ask what the hell does a corporate headquarter's location have to do with the original topic at hand?

[Wezas]

Hmmm, my "Does anyone else just want the US to stay the fuck out of it?" statement is a bit lost here now that we've moved on to dress code.

<long sleeve t-shirt, 3 day beard, jeans, boots>

I love being a programmer.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Where are the 4 AS/400 systems with staff that keep track of their active inventory and sales systems?

:offtopic:

God I hated working on that slow piece of shit.

[Tsa`ah]

One page of semi-on-topic jabber, 3 pages of bullshit.

I had an on topic response; I just lost it amidst the penile implant comparisons.

[Silverona]

<Being agnostic, I believe it is entirely possible to believe in God however one wishes, be it christianity, islam, judaism, buddhism, hindu, or anything without attempting to impose those beliefs upon others and employing those beliefs into actions against others. Someone who intrudes on my doorstep and rings the doorbell promoting a bible will meet the same fuck off as someone with a copy of the Quran.>

Very well said Tamral, I just started reading this forum, and I like your posts on this thread. All except the blowing them up part, I'm not ever for killing children, they're always innocent. And if you start blowing up problem spots in the world, where would it ever stop? The stupid town I live in is right in the bible belt, and most of the people around here are completely ignorant, but ignorance isn't evil... plus, I don't wanna get blown up with it, hehe

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by GSTamral
And tell me then, does Christian teachings tell you to seize the properties and assets and arrest anyone who publicly speaks out against you? Does it further teach you to disavow knowledge of ever having arresting him, without a public apology to his kin and grandchildren once you found out he was indeed right? That really sounded like it came out of left field until you threw Gallileo in, lol. Anyhoo: no. That is not Christian teaching, obviously. Skipping ahead:
From where in the bible does the roots of a position like the pope come from? Peter. Jesus says to Peter that whatever the Rock binds on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever he looses on earth will be loosed in heaven, or slightly different wordage depending on your translation.
They'd be sent home and written up. Wearing ashes is required for Catholics. I wouldn't think it's a good idea to make people choose between their religion and their job, do you find it works out?
Originally posted by SpunGirl
Wal-Mart is for White Trash that doesn't care that it's White Trash. :( Everyone hates on Wal-mart. Except SHM, who officially rox0rz.

[TheEschaton]

Back on topic:

In other news...
Third Intifada Launched in Gaza (http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040322-060029-4289r)

Oops.

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

"promises to unleash a new wave of violence between Israel and the Palestinians."

Swell job there Israel. Although I don't know how much I can be scared of people who fire rocket launchers into the air (for fun).

[TheEschaton]

It's the simplest lesson there is: violence begets violence.


Or, to put it in the appropos words of an antiwar sign I saw once: "Waging War for Peace is like Fucking for Virginity."

Edited to add: I mean, the guy was 67 years old, a QUAD, paralyzed, bound to a wheelchair, coming out of a mosque after prayer, and Israel claimed he was the mastermind behind terrorism in recent years? Everyone is saying (in the Muslim world) that since he was released by Israel in 97, he's been mainly focusing on the socio-economic support network, in Hamas. Why the fuck would you use 3 missiles to take out a fucking cripple. I mean, geez. 15 people killed. Sonofabitch.

-TheE-

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by TheEschaton]

[Parkbandit]

So what should Israel have done then? Let the man responsible for this 'Jihad' just keep preaching about bringing about the destruction of Israel around? Let the man responsible for bringing this terrorist gang to being?

Personally, I applaud Israel for their steadfastness in this difficult time. Terrorist groups should NEVER be negotiated with. You snuff them out.

If I were Israel, I would let them have Gaza and the West Bank and continue putting up a huge wall around my country. Touch my wall with your spitwads, I'll come over it with my helocopters and shove a missle into your chest.

[Atlanteax]

I think it'd be easier to just allow Israel to forcably remove all Palestians and leave it at that. Jordan, Syria, Egypt would then have to "accept" the Palestians and support them with social programs, or leave them to their fate.

[Parkbandit]

You do realize that Hamas is a terrorist organization.. right? It's not like the local Girl Scout troop.

[TheEschaton]

Hamas is a political organization, with a militant wing, said wing being labelled by the U.S. as a terrorist organization.

The person killed, I can't get his name right, did not, as far as anyone can tell, work with the military wing since he was released from an Israeli prison in 1997.

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

The thing I'm looking forward to is the Daily Show, with Jon Stewart, tonight.


"So? How was your weekend. It was pretty uneventful here, yanno. NCAA basketball upsets, some new ads on the campaign trail, etc."

"Oh, and yeah, world war three broke out in the Middle East today..."


-TheE-

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
Hamas is a political organization, with a militant wing, said wing being labelled by the U.S. as a terrorist organization.

The person killed, I can't get his name right, did not, as far as anyone can tell, work with the military wing since he was released from an Israeli prison in 1997.

-TheE-

No, Hamas is the militant wing of a political party. Hamas in its entirety is militant. Why the fuck do you defend the scum of the Earth? Do you have something to prove?

Edited to fix a typo.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by Hulkein]

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

While I don't agree with TheE a lot of the time, I love his views. He brings a level head and sound, well thought out arguments to the table.

Even scum of the Earth deserve to be defended.

and then found guilty and lynched... but thats just me ;)

[Hulkein]

I don't even mean defend them... but actually try to make them look innocent. I understand everyone needs to be given a chance, but when something happens it is a GUARANTEE Eschaton will be defending the guilty, wrong, evil, misunderstood party not even in a way saying 'hey, cut them a break.' But in a way saying 'THEY'RE INNOCENT EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG.'

Hamas isn't a 'political organization' with just a 'teeny tiny militant wing.' They are a militant entity, through and through.

[TheEschaton]

Hamas isn't a 'political organization' with just a 'teeny tiny militant wing.' They are a militant entity, through and through.


Your lack of knowledge is overwhelming.

Hamas is a political party which was founded (and blessed by Israeli moderates) as an opposition to the PLO. Like the PLO has it's militant side, the Fatah, Hamas has its militant side. Hamas does provide social support for the Palestinian people, though.

And, Hulkein, I present ideas which are not in the mainstream. In no way do I condone what Hamas does, but I *do* defend the cause of Palestinian autonomy, which is a just cause, being suppressed by military strongarming. Hamas is ideologically aligned with the idea of Palestinian autonomy, but on moral grounds, they and I could be no further apart.

Furthermore, the positions I take do not excuse anyone of their action. My positions instead seek to show that NO ONE is innocent, in this case, Israel, which is often lauded as the shining gem in the Middle East.

I'd like to see once where I said Hamas, or any other terrorist, was innocent of their crime. What I did say is that the target in this strike was a quadraplegic senior citizen, bound to a wheelchair, and coming from prayer, and that it seemed to be serious fucked up shit to use 3 missiles to kill him (and the other 14 innocent people around him).


Please, keep your juvenile ranting under control AND BUY A FUCKING CLUE.

-TheE-

[Hulkein]

You can say Hamas was started as a legit political party and say I lack knowledge till you're blue in the face, but it is completely militant now. I'm a realist, I don't cut them slack. Great they started and were acknowledged as a political party in the past, they're nothing but terrorists now. Their main purpose isn't non-violent constructive reform, and we both know that.

And please don't tell me to keep my ranting to myself when you preach that cancer victims should die without using readily available treatments because they're not phsyically fit enough to live anymore, in your eyes mind you.

No one is lauding Israel as a gem here so why don't you take your own advice and buy a clue buddy.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by Hulkein]

[TheEschaton]

I have reasoned arguments behind what I argue, you don't.

From the Wikipedia:


...Hamas formed in late 1987 as an outgrowth of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood....

Hamas is a multi-faceted organization that engages in at least two distinct activites: charitable works and terrorism.

Various Hamas elements have used both political and violent means, including terrorism, to pursue the goal of establishing an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel's Jewish state. Loosely structured, with some elements working clandestinely and others working openly through mosques and social service institutions to recruit members, raise money, organize activities, and distribute propaganda, Hamas's strength is concentrated in the Gaza Strip and a few areas of the West Bank. Hamas also has engaged in peaceful political activity, such as running candidates in West Bank Chamber of Commerce elections.

[Hulkein]

Reasoned arguments? You're supporting a 'political party' who has two distinct activities as defined by Wikipedia, and one is terrorism. Your reason for this? Because they do charitable works towards their own people. WOW THEY SHOULD BE ABSOLVED FOR ALL THEIR MURDERS BECAUSE THEY ARE CHARITABLE TOWARDS THEIR OWN KIND. Yes E, very reasonable, let me tell you.

[TheEschaton]

Wow, WHERE THE FUCK DID I SAY THEY SHOULD BE ABSOLVED OF BLAME?


I just said Israel was fucking retarded for doing this. I *am* using reason, you're the one going off like Ann Coulter on crack.


Edited to add: I said we have similar ideological beliefs, but are as far away as possible in the moral sense, IE, in how to get it done. You remind me of my friend's uncle, Uncle John. I was at my friend's house for his birthday, and I was telling him about my boy Joe who went to Palestine with the ISM (International Solidarity Movement) to block the razing of the villages (ref Rachel Corrie), and he blurts out, "So, how long has your friend supported killing innocent Jews?" Scuse me, Uncle John (and Hulkein), but supporting the idea of a Palestinian state does not immediately mean you support terrorism.

Get out of your "You're with us or your against us" black-and-white-only mindset.

-TheE-

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by TheEschaton]

[Hulkein]

You're not absolving them?


Everyone is saying (in the Muslim world) that since he was released by Israel in 97, he's been mainly focusing on the socio-economic support network, in Hamas.

In that statement right there you are making excuses, acting as if because he does charitable work for his own people now that he doesn't deserve to be killed. No, you didn't directly say that he is innocent, but that is the overwhelming theme of your sequence of posts.

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by GSTamral
<<and if one comes into work with ash on their forehead?>>

They'd be sent home and written up. Depends. I live in a frigging RC theocracy. Ash Wednesday comes around, I'm in Boston City Hall getting some permits for my truckers. Someone comes on the frigging PA system and says that they're passing out ashes in the MAYOR'S OFFICE.


Tamral, Walmart does not force its associates to remove their religious items
No they don't, but there was a big deal in the papers last year. Walmart near Boston, people saw five Muslim guys take off their shoes, go into the men's room and heard them chanting. They call the cops and they get the customers out and cordon off the building. State troopers and National Guard show up because they're terrorists of course.

They were just guys looking for a quiet place to have their prayer.

[Hulkein]

And E, I am not saying Israel is perfect or that they're the only ones who get harmed, but this guy is a fucking terrorist and you're acting as if they have no right to kill him. I'd think by now you would know me well enough to see that I do not take racial/ethnic sides, I just dislike terrorist and rogue nations.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by Hulkein]

[TheEschaton]

A) I am not absolving Hamas.

B) I am saying that the particular target was, to quote the interior minister of the JEWISH cabinet, "not a ticking bomb", and that his targetting was not very appropos.

C) Try some fucking READING COMPREHENSION, you DUMB SHIT.


Wait, let me spell that last one out, lest you misunderstand it: You have seriously misinterpreted what I've said, and applied a logic to what I've said that NO OTHER LOGICAL PERSON would apply to it.

It's like me saying "I'm against Affirmative Action, I don't think anyone should get an unfair advantage" and you saying, "So, you're a racist?"

Me: Uh, no, I said no one shouldn't get an unfair advantage.
You: But you want to take away benefits to black people, right? You're a racist!
Me: Ummm, no. You're just a fucking moron.

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

I just dislike terrorist and rogue nations.

Then you should read "Rogue State" by William Blum, and gain perspective.



-TheE-

[Galleazzo]

Got two more things to say:

1) Anyone who goes 2 pages of challenges for what model of laser scanner WalMart uses NEEDS TO GET A FUCKING CLUE AND A GODDAMN LIFE. NO one on Earth gives a flying fuck at a diseased dead squirrel, okay???

2) I am real down with the leader of a bunch of terrorist mass murderers getting popped. They should do his 2nd in command too. And the 3rd. And the 4th. In fact I live for the day where every snotnosed wannabe who cries out in a public square he wants to be a suicide bomber too gets one in the head 10 seconds later.

The only peace with terrorists is when the terrorists are exterminated. And their bodies all set on fire. And we get to piss on the ashes.

:flamed:

[Edited on 3/22/2004 by Galleazzo]

[Hulkein]

Ok, you can call my logic messed up all you want, but what I see you doing is making excuses on why a terrorist shouldn't be brought to justice.

<<It's like me saying "I'm against Affirmative Action, I don't think anyone should get an unfair advantage" and you saying, "So, you're a racist?">>

The funny thing is, there are plenty of people who argue that getting rid of affirmative action IS racist, so I don't really see how that example shows the logic as terribly flawed.

<<Then you should read "Rogue State" by William Blum, and gain perspective.>>

No nation that has mandatory elections every four years and a maximum Presidency of two terms falls under the category of rogue nation, in my mind.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by Hulkein]

[TheEschaton]

How'd you know it was about America? ;)

And G, like I said before, violence never solves anything. It is morally bankrupt to willfully take the life of another. Period. Doesn't matter the target.

Morality is funny that way. It applies to the actual action, and not the target of said action. Namely, the ends NEVER JUSTIFY THE MEANS.

Terrorism ended by violence is not a victory.

Edited to add:

Ok, you can call my logic messed up all you want, but what I see you doing is making excuses on why a terrorist shouldn't be brought to justice.

That's the problem, he wasn't brought to justice. And, to the innocent bystanders around him, an injustice was done. And, to quote Dr. King, "Injustice anywhere, is a threat to justice everywhere."

I always like breaking out the King. I like to see people backpedal and try and make what he said irrelevent and thus justify their feelings.

-TheE-

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by TheEschaton]

[Siefer]

Hamas is a terrorist organization whose existence is a problem for Israelis, Palestinians, and all the people in the region. They need to be exterminated. End of story. I like the idea of herding the Palestinians into Jordan Syria and Egypt. If you give those cocksuckers a state, which will be used as a platform of terror against Israel, for over 50 years of killing innocent people, then I've lost hope in the human race.

[Edaarin]

Read the Crime and Punishment portion of the Metro section in the Washington Post.

I lost hope in the human race long ago.

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
And G, like I said before, violence never solves anything.
You said it, but the first person to say it was spouting crap pop psychology, and everyone since too.

Let's look back at the last century. How was Hitler and the Nazis stopped? With violence. How did Israel survive as a nation over half a century? Violently; their neighbors launched four wars against them. That film clip I saw last night of a machine gun battle in the West, how was that guy's rampage stopped? By violence -- the cops shot him dead. How is it that the Anglos took over this continent and not the French or the Indians or the Mexicans? By violence -- we fought wars against them all and nailed them all and that's why we don't speak Quebecois or Spanish or Algonquin right now.

Violence ain't pretty, and it doesn't have a lot to do with moral values, but saying it never solved anything is real numb.

[TheEschaton]

Let me clarify: Violence never solved anything constructively.


-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
TheE ... brings a level head and sound, well thought out arguments to the table.
Originally posted by TheEschaton
BUY A FUCKING CLUE.
WHERE THE FUCK DID I SAY THEY SHOULD BE ABSOLVED OF BLAME?
you DUMB SHITWell, usually anyway. All kidding aside:
Originally posted by Hulkein
you're acting as if they have no right to kill him.No one ever has the right to take the life of another. Jeez, didn't you watch Trigun? (If not, then do plz)

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
Let me clarify: Violence never solved anything constructively.

You got to be shitting me. They'd still be serving french-fried Jew with some grated Slav on the side in the canteen in Buchenwald without some good healthy violence, and lots of it. Yeah, they TRIED to talk smack with Hitler, and Adolf-boy just pointed and laughed and took over another country.

:down:

[Siefer]

^^ One of the most terrible things I've ever heard. Ever.

[Galleazzo]

What, what I just posted?

If so it was meant to be gross and shocking. If not a billionth as gross and shocking as the actual ovens were.

[Warriorbird]

Violence is sometimes the answer. Where to apply it and selection of a type is often the question.