When keeping it real goes right

[Stretch]

http://deadspin.com/5477230/nyu-business-school-professor-has-mastered-the-art-of-email-flaming

Professor hands out massive e-mail pwnage to entitled student.

Take that, pretentious douchebag b-schooler.

xxxx, let me be more serious for a moment. I do not know you, will not know you and have no real affinity or animosity for you. You are an anonymous student who is now regretting the send button on his laptop. It's with this context I hope you register pause...REAL pause xxxx and take to heart what I am about to tell you:

xxxx, get your shit together.

[Asile]

I read the whole article, which included the student's original email and the entirety of the reply. Thank you, Scott Galloway, for pointing out the need to have manners.

I guess I'm lucky in that the training I do is so specific, and on such a tight timeframe (the bulk of my classes are 4 - 8 hours long, depending on the specific training) that I have the luxury of telling folks who are even 5 minutes late "Tough cookies, sign up for another session" (though I tend to admit folks up to 15 minutes after class start time, since they don't miss much by seeing the introductory video segment).

But I just hate late people in general, so I really like seeing this guy taken down 3 notches.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Hilarious.

But, re: late people.. I am perpetually late. Usually because I underestimate how long it will take me to get ready/go to a place and because I figure no one will care or notice if I slip in a little late. I don't do well with people who take it personally and get butthurt. Hopefully my classes in the fall have professors who don't give a shit.

[AnticorRifling]

I hate people that are late some of that comes from my parents and a lot of it comes from the Marine Corps. I strike to be 15min early to everything. My wife hates it.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I dunno where I got it from. My parents are the 'early' types and growing up I did the whole, try to be 15 minutes early thing.

I can say that I am never late to getting to work on time. It's more social events, etc that I never arrive to on time.

[Ker_Thwap]

Tough love. He gave the student some great life advice.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I hate people that are late some of that comes from my parents and a lot of it comes from the Marine Corps. I strike to be 15min early to everything. My wife hates it.

I'm with you. I am always early to everything unless overcome by a more pressing/critical meeting or obligation. For the exact reason Galloway listed - it's easy and respecting others time is important. Very frankly in the corp. America I've worked in, people notice those that are always late. Those that are always late are also usually those who hold up getting shit done.

Socially speaking, if my girl is always late, I'll factor in the time she normally takes and tell her to meet me earlier, or that the dinner is earlier, whatever. I think being on time with friends also shows respect for their time and is appreciated. Those that always run late and never make the effort, I stop hanging out with. All of this assumes a formal start time like say a dinner out with friends or meeting up somewhere. If it's just happy hour, come when you can.

I guess it's situational, but being on time is important to me.

[Kithus]

Socially speaking, if my girl is always late, I'll factor in the time she normally takes and tell her to meet me earlier, or that the dinner is earlier, whatever.

I do that to my fiancee all the time and it pisses her off. Hey hun I want to head to my parents for 2:30. At 2:45 she's ready to go and I'm finishing a few things up. Aren't we supposed to be there already? No we're supposed to be there at 3:00 but I wanted to leave around 2:45 so I told you 2:30.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I do that to my fiancee all the time and it pisses her off. Hey hun I want to head to my parents for 2:30. At 2:45 she's ready to go and I'm finishing a few things up. Aren't we supposed to be there already? No we're supposed to be there at 3:00 but I wanted to leave around 2:45 so I told you 2:30.

I really prefer it when people are this way with me, ha.

I text/tell the person when I'm running late.

[Kuyuk]

I loathe being late to shit.

I'm almost always 20-30 mins early for most things.

(edited to add: I was brought up that if you were late it was a show of much disrespect)

[Keller]

I hate people that are late some of that comes from my parents and a lot of it comes from the Marine Corps. I strike to be 15min early to everything. My wife hates it.

You mean to tell me your wife doesn't like you being 15 minutes premature?

[Atlanteax]

Anyone else picturing TheE as the student in this situation?

[Keller]

Anyone else picturing TheE as the student in this situation?

Nope.

[Tisket]

I'm usually early for most things but I don't stress too badly if I'm running behind. Shit comes up sometimes. I always try to notify anyone waiting for me, and really, with cell phones, there is really no excuse to make someone wait without a call.

[Drisco]

Ugh, I don't know why but I thought the teacher was kind of critical. His late policy is a hassle I guess.

The only way I could see this working and the teacher not be a douche is.

1. If you are going to be late and have a reason can you let the teacher know via email? It seems like a lot of work on the teachers end but if he's cool with it.

2. I feel like when someone is an hour late my first thought would be he actually had something going on and couldn't make it on time.

3. I feel like kicking people out of a class because of tardiness is kind of ridiculous especially if you don't know the whole situation. There are a lot of things more important in ones life then school that could make them late.

This is all Moot if the teacher complies to 1 though because who can't send an email explaining why, and it would allow the people who are late with a legitimate reason in.

I just think that I know a lot of people who have to work full time for school because they can't afford it and are late to class or have to leave early. Also some people have shit going on in their lives that they can't ignore and being late is sometimes inevitable.

[Tisket]

I think that a teacher chewing out a tardy student is more of a class disruption than the kid just slipping in and sitting down. But the other students watching are much less likely to come late to future classes so I can also see the benefit to a little ass chewing too I guess.

[TheEschaton]

I'm never late. I show up 3 hours before domestic flights. Being late is the thing that annoys me the most.

Of course, the 3 hours before domestic flights thing also has to do with me expecting to be strip searched every time I go to the airport.

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

Anyone else picturing TheE as the student in this situation?

LOL, it must be amusing to live in your world, where you can assign all negative attributes to the people you disagree with.

Having read the article now, let me also comment: I hate class shoppers. Most aren't there because they truly have an interest in three different things that happen to be taught at the same time, their only interest tends to be their perception of the professor and whether or not they think the class'll be easy.

-TheE-

[Kithus]

I'm never late. I show up 3 hours before domestic flights. Being late is the thing that annoys me the most.

Of course, the 3 hours before domestic flights thing also has to do with me expecting to be strip searched every time I go to the airport.

-TheE-

"Excuse me sir you've been randomly selected." It's not profiling, it's statistics. ;)

[Archigeek]

I'm never late. I show up 3 hours before domestic flights. Being late is the thing that annoys me the most.

Of course, the 3 hours before domestic flights thing also has to do with me expecting to be strip searched every time I go to the airport.

-TheE-

This is a perfect illustration of how screwed up air travel is in the US. You show up 3 hours before a domestic flight leaves, which is longer than all but about 10% of all non-stop domestic flights take to complete. Now imagine that you're paying someone to fly, aka it's a business trip. You're probably paying $500-800 for a last minute ticket, paying them a bill rate while they wait for the plane, do the business meeting, and fly back. This is a nasty hamstring for business.

Loved the letter though. Even though I'm occasionally late, I was almost never late for class: it's very disruptive, except perhaps in huge lectures where it doesn't matter nearly as much. Sorry for the sidetrack.

[Showal]

Having read the article now, let me also comment: I hate class shoppers. Most aren't there because they truly have an interest in three different things that happen to be taught at the same time, their only interest tends to be their perception of the professor and whether or not they think the class'll be easy.

This has generally been my experience with "class shoppers" as well.

[Clove]

Ugh, I don't know why but I thought the teacher was kind of critical. His late policy is a hassle I guess.

The only way I could see this working and the teacher not be a douche is.

1. If you are going to be late and have a reason can you let the teacher know via email? It seems like a lot of work on the teachers end but if he's cool with it.It really isn't a professor's job cater to a college student's schedule simply because life is complicated.


2. I feel like when someone is an hour late my first thought would be he actually had something going on and couldn't make it on time.That might me a professor's first thought too; however that doesn't buy the student a pass to disrupt the class for those that were able to attend (on time).


3. I feel like kicking people out of a class because of tardiness is kind of ridiculous especially if you don't know the whole situation. There are a lot of things more important in ones life then school that could make them late.Of course there are more important things. And if one of those things happened to you, well you've just missed a class because something important happened. The professor (and class) isn't obligated to tolerate your late arrival or extend you grace because you were unable to come to class when it started.


I just think that I know a lot of people who have to work full time for school because they can't afford it and are late to class or have to leave early. Also some people have shit going on in their lives that they can't ignore and being late is sometimes inevitable.Having worked full-time while going to school full-time I can personally vouch that it's complicated and difficult and sometimes conflicts arise. It's your job to prioritize and (for myself at least) that meant the difference between a 3.9 GPA and a 4.0. Just because you've taken on a challenging goal and as a result encounter life doesn't obligate anyone to give you a pass for it. I have had professors who have been very gracious (for which I was grateful) but that was their privilege and the ones that didn't weren't douches, they simply maintained firm attendance standards.

[Drisco]

LOL, it must be amusing to live in your world, where you can assign all negative attributes to the people you disagree with.

Having read the article now, let me also comment: I hate class shoppers. Most aren't there because they truly have an interest in three different things that happen to be taught at the same time, their only interest tends to be their perception of the professor and whether or not they think the class'll be easy.

-TheE-

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize me paying tens of thousands of dollars to get a teacher who doesn't hate life and will be a fair marker makes me a bad person.

I've walked into classes who the teacher straight up says you won't get over an 80% in this class. Why should I stay in his class when clearly he isn't going to give me a good mark and allow me to get scholarships?

Being smart and trying to get easy teachers isn't a bad idea.

[Drisco]

It really isn't a professor's job cater to a college student's schedule simply because life is complicated.

That might me a professor's first thought too; however that doesn't buy the student a pass to disrupt the class for those that were able to attend (on time).

Of course there are more important things. And if one of those things happened to you, well you've just missed a class because something important happened. The professor (and class) isn't obligated to tolerate your late arrival or extend you grace because you were unable to come to class when it started.

Having worked full-time while going to school full-time I can personally vouch that it's complicated and difficult and sometimes conflicts arise. It's your job to prioritize and (for myself at least) that meant the difference between a 3.9 GPA and a 4.0. Just because you've taken on a challenging goal and as a result encounter life doesn't obligate anyone to give you a pass for it. I have had professors who have been very gracious (for which I was grateful) but that was their privilege and the ones that didn't weren't douches, they simply maintained firm attendance standards.


I never said it was the teachers job to cater to a students life schedule. I think a little compassion and empathy goes a long way.

Disrupting a class for about what 30 seconds as a student gets into a seat and quietly sits down and starts to listen to the lecture? I could see it if the student was making a big ordeal and asking questions that were previously stated. But to be an asshole and tell a student to leave because one arrived late for an unknown reason.

[Androidpk]

I hate douchebag professors like that.

[AnticorRifling]

I'm pretty sure if I walked into a client meeting an hour late I'd get my ass handed to me. If I knew I was going to be late I'd call. This student knew he was going to class shop he should have called and made arrangements (I don't know how this works since I'm not a student).

[Clove]

Disrupting a class for about what 30 seconds as a student gets into a seat and quietly sits down and starts to listen to the lecture? I could see it if the student was making a big ordeal and asking questions that were previously stated. But to be an asshole and tell a student to leave because one arrived late for an unknown reason.I think you're making assumptions on how great or little the disruption is. Regardless why should the students who were able to meet the schedule tolerate any disruption (however minor)? It may not be the tardy student's fault he's late, but it definitely isn't the fault of the students who arrived on time and they shouldn't have to be inconvenienced. It's simply rude to assume that because you've had a problem others are expected to accomodate you. Personally I think that's more of a douche attitude. None of us are entitled to grace.

[Clove]

I'm pretty sure if I walked into a client meeting an hour late I'd get my ass handed to me. If I knew I was going to be late I'd call. This student knew he was going to class shop he should have called and made arrangements (I don't know how this works since I'm not a student).And by class shopping he elected to disrupt and disrespect three classes (to suit his convenience). Personally I think that only made his case worse. He should have said his car broke down :D

[Drisco]

I think you're making assumptions on how great or little the disruption is. Regardless why should the students who were able to meet the schedule tolerate any disruption (however minor)? It may not be the tardy student's fault he's late, but it definitely isn't the fault of the students who arrived on time and they shouldn't have to be inconvenienced. It's simply rude to assume that because you've had a problem others are expected to accomodate you. Personally I think that's more of a douche attitude. None of us are entitled to grace.

I am making the assumption that the student didn't make a huge ordeal. I have been late to classes. I walk in 200 students look at me for 5 seconds and I take a seat and the class continues. I'm sorry that I made you look at me for 5 seconds. You are making it sound like this is a big deal. Do you honestly think a student is like OMGWTFBBQ a guy walked in late and he has totally thrown me off!!1

If you are such butthurt that someone walked in late you shouldn't be teaching.

Also your logic "It's simply rude to assume that because you've had a problem others are expected to accomodate you" is lacking. I'm in a wheelchair oh that's your problem learn to climb stairs. Oh, your family died in a horrible accident, your problem deal with it. Oh Haiti disaster, clean it up yourself.

I feel like that's what your look is on this.

Maybe I'm wrong for having a little compassion and empathy for people. Even if they were late because it was their own fault. I don't think life is that serious that I need to kick someone out of my class because of an interruption of tardyness 1 time.

[Kithus]

Oh Haiti disaster, clean it up yourself.



Parker?

[AnticorRifling]

I am making the assumption that the student didn't make a huge ordeal. I have been late to classes. I walk in 200 students look at me for 5 seconds and I take a seat and the class continues. I'm sorry that I made you look at me for 5 seconds. You are making it sound like this is a big deal. Do you honestly think a student is like OMGWTFBBQ a guy walked in late and he has totally thrown me off!!1

If you are such butthurt that someone walked in late you shouldn't be teaching.

Also your logic "It's simply rude to assume that because you've had a problem others are expected to accomodate you" is lacking. I'm in a wheelchair oh that's your problem learn to climb stairs. Oh, your family died in a horrible accident, your problem deal with it. Oh Haiti disaster, clean it up yourself.

I feel like that's what your look is on this.

Maybe I'm wrong for having a little compassion and empathy for people. Even if they were late because it was their own fault. I don't think life is that serious that I need to kick someone out of my class because of an interruption of tardyness 1 time. One big problem here. HE MADE THE CHOICE TO CLASS SHOP SO NO EMPATHY IS WARRANTED.

But even if it was car breaking down, family on fire, wheelchair blowjob, earthquake, etc...you're an hour late skip it. Or is it only ok to expect compasison and understanding from the group (class) to you, the indvidual, and say fuck the compassion and and understanding from you to the group?

[Androidpk]

I see no problem with class shopping with the amount of money that is involved in going to college.

[Drisco]

One big problem here. HE MADE THE CHOICE TO CLASS SHOP SO NO EMPATHY IS WARRANTED.

But even if it was car breaking down, family on fire, wheelchair blowjob, earthquake, etc...you're an hour late skip it. Or is it only ok to expect compasison and understanding from the group (class) to you, the indvidual, and say fuck the compassion and and understanding from you to the group?


Class shopping? We pay fucking out the ass for University and I'm suppose to purchase a teacher blindly? No, fuck that I want the best opportunity to get the best marks, to get the best scholarship and education I can get. So fuck all of you who just go blindly into a class without knowing how the teacher is.

Why would I ever skip a class if I can make the last 5 minutes? I'm paying for it and if I happen to be late for a reason I can't control then I am gonna go. You are a teacher and I pay your wage. This is more a service. I am paying you to teach your class so shut up and teach. Kick me out of a class because I showed up late but I'm paying for the class? This teacher is the one with entitlement issues. Because all of his students can't meet his expectation.

I'm saying I interrupted your class for 5 seconds so I could find a seat. I'm paying for it just like the rest and if someone can't concentrate because someone walked into a class then I'm not your only problem.

[AnticorRifling]

You're paying for it just like everyone else who showed up on time and you interrupted them.....

If they can't concentrate because you walked in late you are the problem.

This is another snowflake issue imo. You are paying for the opportunity to learn, not be coddled. You're not in high school anymore you're an adult act like one, if showing up late means you're removed from class then you don't show up late and if you do you don't get ass hurt that you're removed.

I don't think class shopping is bad per say. The method is suspect however. Go to a whole class. Be on time and take it seriously.

[Archigeek]

I see the investment in grad school the other way around: if you're dolling out $45,000 a year for grad school, you should do your research and shop and figure out what you need to figure out BEFORE classes start. Protect that giant investment! Also, what the hell did he think he was going to learn in 15 minutes anyway? You can't tell if a professor is going to be for you by missing the first half hour and catching minutes 31-45. That's idiotic.

Make some calls, ask people who've taken the class, call the professors office and ask to talk to them, ask them if it's OK to audit the class for the first couple of classes because you are unsure of the direction you want to take. Then show up ON TIME. In fact, show up early so you can chat with the professor or a TA before class begins.

Having said all that, there are more than a few professors who are absolute dicks. Some have serious inferiority issues, (maybe because they are small dicks), or god complexes, and some are truely horrendous teachers and should stick to research. I bet if you play this guys rules though, I bet he's a pretty good teacher.

[Drisco]

You're paying for it just like everyone else who showed up on time and you interrupted them.....

If they can't concentrate because you walked in late you are the problem.

This is another snowflake issue imo. You are paying for the opportunity to learn, not be coddled. You're not in high school anymore you're an adult act like one, if showing up late means you're removed from class then you don't show up late and if you do you don't get ass hurt that you're removed.

I don't think class shopping is bad per say. The method is suspect however. Go to a whole class. Be on time and take it seriously.

I see your point but it's school. You are an adult be realistic, if you are signing up for a class with the expectation that you will never be interrupted, never be distracted then you are batcrazy. Being coddled is considered being able to stay because you arrived late? The whole issue is the Professor has entitlement issues. He's some hotshot who thinks the students obey him and only him. Well guess what guy, we are paying for your salary, you are working for us and if you don't like it don't teach. If he pulled that shit on me I would do something about it.

[Androidpk]

If they can't concentrate because you walked in late you are the problem.


If someone walks into your class and suddenly you lose control of body functions and can't continue to concentrate, a university is the last place you should be.

[Clove]

I see the investment in grad school the other way around: if you're dolling out $45,000 a year for grad school, you should do your research and shop and figure out what you need to figure out BEFORE classes start. Protect that giant investment! Also, what the hell did he think he was going to learn in 15 minutes anyway? You can't tell if a professor is going to be for you by missing the first half hour and catching minutes 31-45. That's idiotic.

Make some calls, ask people who've taken the class, call the professors office and ask to talk to them, ask them if it's OK to audit the class for the first couple of classes because you are unsure of the direction you want to take. Then show up ON TIME. In fact, show up early so you can chat with the professor or a TA before class begins.

Having said all that, there are more than a few professors who are absolute dicks. Some have serious inferiority issues, (maybe because they are small dicks), or god complexes, and some are truely horrendous teachers and should stick to research. I bet if you play this guys rules though, I bet he's a pretty good teacher.What? You mean take responsibility and put effort into determining the best classes for your dollar when it's so much easier to be disrespectful and disruptive? How fucking DARE you!!!!11!!1!!!

[Clove]

I see your point but it's school. You are an adult be realistic, if you are signing up for a class with the expectation that you will never be interrupted, never be distracted then you are batcrazy. Being coddled is considered being able to stay because you arrived late? The whole issue is the Professor has entitlement issues. He's some hotshot who thinks the students obey him and only him. Well guess what guy, we are paying for your salary, you are working for us and if you don't like it don't teach. If he pulled that shit on me I would do something about it.I wouldn't expect to be deliberately distracted and disrupted. I think the class has reasonable expectations that the environment should be protected. Showing up whenever you fucking feel like it goes against that expectation.

[Keller]

Put it this way - college (and much less grad school) is NOT the appropriate time to regress in your social grace.

If you're going to be intentionally late to a class, tell the professor. If you were going to be late to grammar school, your mother would tell the teacher. If you're going to be late to work, you tell your colleagues. College is not the land of no-rules.

Kudos for this professor for teaching this douchebag a lesson.

[AnticorRifling]

I see your point but it's school. You are an adult be realistic, if you are signing up for a class with the expectation that you will never be interrupted, never be distracted then you are batcrazy. Being coddled is considered being able to stay because you arrived late? The whole issue is the Professor has entitlement issues. He's some hotshot who thinks the students obey him and only him. Well guess what guy, we are paying for your salary, you are working for us and if you don't like it don't teach. If he pulled that shit on me I would do something about it.

Personally I'd prefer for the doors to lock 5min after class starts and have crash bars on the inside (for the fire codes zomg).

See I would think the student has the entitlement issue(s). I pay your salary I can do whatever I want and come and go as I please. Guess what student, you applied here, were lucky enough to get in, follow the rules and be thankful you're in a place lots of people only dream of.

What would you do about it? Write a strongly worded letter about how you demand that you can come and go at your leisure because you're better than those students who take it seriously enough to plan properly and show up on time?

If you're not 15 minutes early you're 15 minutes late.

[Clove]

If someone walks into your class and suddenly you lose control of body functions and can't continue to concentrate, a university is the last place you should be.Right. Because in your opinion you don't think you're "enough of a disruption" your behavior should be imposed on and tolerated by the group. It's convenient for you and the inconvenience you're imposing isn't enough to matter (as far as you're concerned). And yet generally those that hold this attitude are the first to bitch and moan the second they face the slightest inconvenience caused by others, themselves.

[Latrinsorm]

The student's email was polite and professional. I would suggest to this professor that a different party needs to "get [their] shit together" than the one originally suggested.

[AnticorRifling]

The student's email was polite and professional. I would suggest to this professor that a different party needs to "get [their] shit together" than the one originally suggested.

You're saying the prof should be blaming the parents? I agree.

[Clove]

The student's email was polite and professional. I would suggest to this professor that a different party needs to "get [their] shit together" than the one originally suggested.I don't think it is polite OR professional to assume that deliberately arriving to a class, meeting, job, church, workshop (fill in social engagement) will be welcomed or considered polite, let alone tolerated and understood.

[Androidpk]

Right. Because in your opinion you don't think you're "enough of a disruption" your behavior should be imposed on and tolerated by the group. It's convenient for you and the inconvenience you're imposing isn't enough to matter (as far as you're concerned). And yet generally those that hold this attitude are the first to bitch and moan the second they face the slightest inconvenience caused by others, themselves.

No.

[Drisco]

So lets throw an example into the mix shall we!

You wake up for the last class before the final exam when he goes over all the material. You get up extra early do some studying before class and leave early. You go outside and you get on the highway and your tire goes flat in the middle of the free way. You deal with all that shit and you finally get to class but you are 40 mins late already! You get in there and the teacher is like gtfo of my class you are late.

Now you think that's right... Apparently I missed something.

[AnticorRifling]

So lets throw an example into the mix shall we!

You wake up for the last class before the final exam when he goes over all the material. You get up extra early do some studying before class and leave early. You go outside and you get on the highway and your tire goes flat in the middle of the free way. You deal with all that shit and you finally get to class but you are 40 mins late already! You get in there and the teacher is like gtfo of my class you are late.

Now you think that's right... Apparently I missed something. The moon fell and hit me on the head so I couldn't be here!

No, this is about someone class shopping and showing up whenever the fuck they wanted on purpose.

But I'll play your game:

Define leave early. A flat tire takes all of what 20min max to change, so if you are 40min late that means you left late.

I have to be at work by 8AM. I leave my house every morning by 7:20AM it's a 7 minute drive with no traffic and perfect weather. When someone gets in a wreck, when it's shitting snow, when I need to stop for gas, etc I still make it by 8.

For job interviews I figure out how long it takes to get to the place and then give myself an extra HOUR to get there. Then I sit in the parking lot and read a book and walk in 15 minutes before my scheduled interview time.

Why? Because these things matter to me. If the exam mattered you'd be there.

[Latrinsorm]

I don't think it is polite OR professional to assume that deliberately arriving to a class, meeting, job, church, workshop (fill in social engagement) will be welcomed or considered polite, let alone tolerated and understood.What I said was that the student's email was polite and professional, not the student's conduct. Nowhere in this email did he or she demand welcome, tolerance, or understanding. The student was merely bringing a concern to the professor, who responded by being an asshole. It's not that hard to act like an adult and say:

"Xxxx,

In my classroom, lateness is fundamentally unacceptable. I did not and do not consider your one-time lateness an indictment of your character, because I did not and do not know you.

-Professor Galloway"

No random tirades, no pompous diversions about "risk analysis", no boorish posturing. Being an asshole to someone because you think they were an asshole is childish.

[AnticorRifling]

And yes if I walked in 40min late to interrupt everyone else taking their final exams I'd expect to be told to leave. Then afterwards I'd talk to the professor and see what could be done.

[AnticorRifling]

What I said was that the student's email was polite and professional, not the student's conduct. Nowhere in this email did he or she demand welcome, tolerance, or understanding. The student was merely bringing a concern to the professor, who responded by being an asshole. It's not that hard to act like an adult and say:

"Xxxx,

In my classroom, lateness is fundamentally unacceptable. I did not and do not consider your one-time lateness an indictment of your character, because I did not and do not know you.

-Professor Galloway"

No random tirades, no pompous diversions about "risk analysis", no boorish posturing. Being an asshole to someone because you think they were an asshole is childish.


How many first impressions do you get to make? Because last I checked most of us only get one. He walked in late and then told the guy hey sorry I was scoping out other shit.

[Clove]

So lets throw an example into the mix shall we!

You wake up for the last class before the final exam when he goes over all the material. You get up extra early do some studying before class and leave early. You go outside and you get on the highway and your tire goes flat in the middle of the free way. You deal with all that shit and you finally get to class but you are 40 mins late already! You get in there and the teacher is like gtfo of my class you are late.

Now you think that's right... Apparently I missed something.And yet that scenario happens all the time in university classes. Why should the students working on their final have to tolerate an interruption? Or should the professor have a dialogue with the student until the student satisfies that he had bad luck (and didn't just get up late). No. He shouldn't be admitted to the final 40 minutes late, simply because he had a bad morning. A sympathetic professor may allow him to take the final at another time, however.

[Clove]

What I said was that the student's email was polite and professional, not the student's conduct. Nowhere in this email did he or she demand welcome, tolerance, or understanding. The student was merely bringing a concern to the professor, who responded by being an asshole.His "concern" was a criticism of his policy, which quite frankly was inappropriate given that he didn't appear to have any intention of even taking his class. He didn't know the professor's policy. He found out the first day. He's taking another class. Great.

[Latrinsorm]

Why? Because these things matter to me. If the exam mattered you'd be there.It is not possible to plan for every combination of circumstances. No matter how much something matters to me, or to you, or even to Batman, the universe can (and often does) make it impossible for us to achieve them to our satisfaction.

[Latrinsorm]

How many first impressions do you get to make? Because last I checked most of us only get one. He walked in late and then told the guy hey sorry I was scoping out other shit.I don't understand why you will continue to make excuses for the professor's breach of polite conduct but not the student's.
His "concern" was a criticism of his policy, which quite frankly was inappropriate given that he didn't appear to have any intention of even taking his class. He didn't know the professor's policy. He found out the first day. He's taking another class. Great.Wasn't that easy? I'll bet that didn't take you more than 30 seconds. That's all the professor could have said (if he wanted to say anything at all) but he chose to go out of his way to be a douchebag. Hence, he's the one who needs to get his shit together.

[Archigeek]

I don't understand why you will continue to make excuses for the professor's breach of polite conduct but not the student's.Wasn't that easy? I'll bet that didn't take you more than 30 seconds. That's all the professor could have said (if he wanted to say anything at all) but he chose to go out of his way to be a douchebag. Hence, he's the one who needs to get his shit together.

The professor took the oportunity to teach. I think it could be argued that lesson wasn't really his to teach, but on the other hand, I bet everyone shows up on time for his class and respects him. They might not like him, but they respect his authority. He used this particular student as an example because he wanted to make a point: don't be late for my fucking class or I'll kick your ass. It looks like it worked.

[Drisco]

I said last class before the final exam where they do review...

This issue has totally turned from Class shopping and being late because of that to the fact of being late in a university class..

Class shopping = Being a prepared individual and making a good investment in life. You don't buy a stock at random, you research and if you could test it out you would. Much like a car.

The fact is the teacher is an asshat. Coming late to class is a very VERY minor thing. You disrupt the class for 5 seconds. If this throws off everything then you shouldn't be in a university setting. That's all. There is 500 people and this teacher expects everyone to make it on time. Well he's an idiot and has issues.

It just shows how bitter people have become that they can't look past being late for a class. I could see if a person did it consistently for no reason other then them being lazy, but until you look past the obvious I think you are a douche for throwing a tantrum because 5 seconds of your time was "wasted".

[Latrinsorm]

The professor took the oportunity to teach. I think it could be argued that lesson wasn't really his to teach, but on the other hand, I bet everyone shows up on time for his class and respects him. They might not like him, but they respect his authority. He used this particular student as an example because he wanted to make a point: don't be late for my fucking class or I'll kick your ass. It looks like it worked.We have no information on what the professor's or student's behavior was beyond the student being late or the professor kicking him or her out. If he leaked a private email exchange to make a public point, I have even less respect for him. If he made a big show of it in class, as Drisco has pointed out, he's cutting off his nose to spite his face. Shit happens, and people are going to be late. Making a production out of it only serves to fan the professor's ego - I really hope you aren't buying into the "this is a life lesson for you!!" nonsense.

[Jorddyn]

If you're 5 minutes late for work, but have nothing scheduled first thing in the morning, I don't care.

If you're meeting a whole group of friends at a bar for drink 6-ish and show up at 6:30, I don't care.

If you're driving to your parents' and tell them you think you'll be there at 2 - well, be nice, call your mom if you're going to be significantly late so she doesn't think you're in a ditch.

If I'm holding a meeting at work with 20 colleagues and you show up 5 minutes late, you bet your ass I care. You have declared that your 5 minutes is more important than the combined total of time for everyone in there. And unless you're the CEO, you're probably wrong. Hell, even if you are the CEO, you might still be wrong.

[Drisco]

If you're 5 minutes late for work, but have nothing scheduled first thing in the morning, I don't care.

If you're meeting a whole group of friends at a bar for drink 6-ish and show up at 6:30, I don't care.

If you're driving to your parents' and tell them you think you'll be there at 2 - well, be nice, call your mom if you're going to be significantly late so she doesn't think you're in a ditch.

If I'm holding a meeting at work with 20 colleagues and you show up 5 minutes late, you bet your ass I care. You have declared that your 5 minutes is more important than the combined total of time for everyone in there. And unless you're the CEO, you're probably wrong. Hell, even if you are the CEO, you might still be wrong.


You are putting it in the perspective that he's the head hancho.

Put it in the perspective that he is an employee and he has a meeting with the board of directors and one of them shows up an hour late. Is he gonna tell him to gtfo? Because in reality, the professor is just 1 guy out of thousands of teachers and anyone would take his job in a second*.

He is payed to teach us. We pay for him to teach us. Just fucking teach us and take the stick out of your ass.

[Asile]

If you are such butthurt that someone walked in late you shouldn't be teaching.

. . .

Maybe I'm wrong for having a little compassion and empathy for people. Even if they were late because it was their own fault. I don't think life is that serious that I need to kick someone out of my class because of an interruption of tardyness 1 time.

As both an instructor and one who trains others how to be instructors, I have to go ahead and comment on this.

This is a matter of respect and setting the atmosphere for your class. I don't care if you disrupt my class for 5 seconds or 5 minutes, a disruption is a disruption, and I don't have to stand for it nor do I have to allow my other students to accept it. It is incredibly rude to all of us who were on time, and as the instructor, it makes it seem to me that you don't respect my time.

Especially because this douche made it clear he was class shopping, I'm all for telling him that he won't be in my class until he feels it's important enough to fully commit to it under the normal parameters everyone else seemed to be just fine working within. If you're not sure if you want to take the class, then talk to other students who've taken it before and get their feedback on it, or try to contact the professor before the class starts to see if you can get some additional information about the class. Neither of those seem to be all that hard to me, especially at the graduate level where a higher level of maturity is expected.

When I was in college, the idea of signing up for more than one class at the same time slot and visiting each on the first day, being up to even 10 minutes late for one of them, never crossed my mind. Of course, I'm in the group that sees being on time as actually being late, and I've begun to resort to telling my husband that we need to be someplace 30 minutes before we really do need to be there just so we can be on time.

[Androidpk]

As both an instructor and one who trains others how to be instructors, I have to go ahead and comment on this.

This is a matter of respect and setting the atmosphere for your class. I don't care if you disrupt my class for 5 seconds or 5 minutes, a disruption is a disruption, and I don't have to stand for it nor do I have to allow my other students to accept it. It is incredibly rude to all of us who were on time, and as the instructor, it makes it seem to me that you don't respect my time.

Especially because this douche made it clear he was class shopping, I'm all for telling him that he won't be in my class until he feels it's important enough to fully commit to it under the normal parameters everyone else seemed to be just fine working within. If you're not sure if you want to take the class, then talk to other students who've taken it before and get their feedback on it, or try to contact the professor before the class starts to see if you can get some additional information about the class. Neither of those seem to be all that hard to me, especially at the graduate level where a higher level of maturity is expected.

When I was in college, the idea of signing up for more than one class at the same time slot and visiting each on the first day, being up to even 10 minutes late for one of them, never crossed my mind. Of course, I'm in the group that sees being on time as actually being late, and I've begun to resort to telling my husband that we need to be someplace 30 minutes before we really do need to be there just so we can be on time.


Who the hell "commits" to a class?!? I'd say maybe less than 5% of the entire college population. :lol:

[Stanley Burrell]

Being late is an excuse for not driving fast enough. Some guy recently pulled up next to me and started honking because I was going 70 in a snowstorm on local roads, then he took out his cell phone and made a serious face, so I rolled down my window and shouted about how he was breaking the law by using his cell phone at the wheel. Some people are so inconsiderate.

[Androidpk]

Being late is an excuse for not driving fast enough. Some guy recently pulled up next to me and started honking because I was going 70 in a snowstorm on local roads, then he took out his cell phone and made a serious face, so I rolled down my window and shouted about how he was breaking the law by using his cell phone at the wheel. Some people are so inconsiderate.

You should have t-boned him.

[Stanley Burrell]

Nah, he had his wife and kids in the car.

It's like, if you want to drive at patrol speed to bask in an aura of self-righteousness by setting a good example for your passengers, do it a parking lot, or something. Some people.

[Croda]

..Nah, he had his wife and kids in the car.


Man he had it bad enough you didn't have to yell at him..

Nah but really, i hate people that get all pissy over shit like that. btw, 70 in a snowstorm.. balls my friend..you have them.

[Clove]

I am making the assumption that the student didn't make a huge ordeal. I have been late to classes. I walk in 200 students look at me for 5 seconds and I take a seat and the class continues. I'm sorry that I made you look at me for 5 seconds. You are making it sound like this is a big deal. Do you honestly think a student is like OMGWTFBBQ a guy walked in late and he has totally thrown me off!!1

If you are such butthurt that someone walked in late you shouldn't be teaching.

Also your logic "It's simply rude to assume that because you've had a problem others are expected to accomodate you" is lacking. I'm in a wheelchair oh that's your problem learn to climb stairs. Oh, your family died in a horrible accident, your problem deal with it. Oh Haiti disaster, clean it up yourself.

I feel like that's what your look is on this.

Maybe I'm wrong for having a little compassion and empathy for people. Even if they were late because it was their own fault. I don't think life is that serious that I need to kick someone out of my class because of an interruption of tardyness 1 time.In my opinion a professor's job is to instruct during the time the classes are held. Not waste his time determining if every student who decides not to attend class on time had a damned good reason or not. If a professor wants to allow students to attend his class late, or not; it's their privilege. If a professor wants to use up time she could be spending with students who were where they were supposed to be when they were supposed to taking your phone call and deciding whether or not to let you in class; that's her privilege too.

However, if the professor does strictly enforce the class times that is their privilege too- not yours. And they aren't being a douche for holding everyone to an equal standard. It is both foolish and rude to assume that you can show up to a class an hour late and expect to be admitted.

Frankly I've had professors that locked their doors at when class began. None of them were douches.

[Clove]

I don't understand why you will continue to make excuses for the professor's breach of polite conduct but not the student's.Wasn't that easy? I'll bet that didn't take you more than 30 seconds. That's all the professor could have said (if he wanted to say anything at all) but he chose to go out of his way to be a douchebag. Hence, he's the one who needs to get his shit together.If the professor had asked for this student's opinion and then blasted him because he didn't like it; I could concede your point.

Instead the student went out of his way to be late, discovered his behavior wasn't appreciated and then went out of his way to contact the professor, justify his unappreciated behavior and criticize the professor's policy. He got exactly the sort of response he demanded.

I will add that it was a douche thing to distribute the letter (if he did). It was unnecessary to broadcast the communication.

[Stanley Burrell]

Man he had it bad enough you didn't have to yell at him..

Nah but really, i hate people that get all pissy over shit like that. btw, 70 in a snowstorm.. balls my friend..you have them.

After I exit my vehicle, I just run/walk fast and don't hold the door for people too, I'll usually feign pretending to look awkward about not holding the door, but I manage to stay on my toes. The second I notice a crowd I can't sidestep, I walk into the eye of the storm and just start gently pushing people with like 9 or 17 "sorry, excuse me"'s as well.

It's weird because this is not who I am -- It's like, I swear to God, my commute is just point A to point B and everything in-between is an OOBE.

[Clove]

Class shopping = Being a prepared individual and making a good investment in life. You don't buy a stock at random, you research and if you could test it out you would. Much like a car.And yet with a little effort and intelligence you can determine which classes are ideal (and probably more effectively) without interrupting or disrespecting anyone.


The fact is the teacher is an asshat. Coming late to class is a very VERY minor thing. You disrupt the class for 5 seconds. If this throws off everything then you shouldn't be in a university setting. That's all. There is 500 people and this teacher expects everyone to make it on time. Well he's an idiot and has issues.Simply because you think it's a minor thing doesn't entitle others to tolerate it. Some teachers may be forgiving. Some will not. The point is, it is THEIR decision not yours and you have no right to DEMAND that they indulge you. Show up on time. If you can't and the professor doesn't allow late attendees, understand that you've missed a class. It's simply a standard. Life is full of them. You meet them or you don't.


It just shows how bitter people have become that they can't look past being late for a class. I could see if a person did it consistently for no reason other then them being lazy, but until you look past the obvious I think you are a douche for throwing a tantrum because 5 seconds of your time was "wasted".The problem that a professor can face by indulging late attendees is they are now in the position of gatekeeper. Hmmmm how late are you? How many times have you been late? Did you have good excuses? Okay you pass... now what about you? Frankly they have more productive uses for their time- like teaching. Once again if a professor feels indulgent and doesn't mind late attendees, fine. Otherwise suck it the fuck up. In any case whether or not you consider it rude, without knowing the class' policy; your best bet it is to show up on time and find out.

[Spectral]

After reading this I'm still unclear as to which colleges and universities actually allow a student to sign up for more than one class given at the same time. Do any of them? I know the college I attend now, and the one I attended previously wouldn't allow for scheduling that contradicts itself, and I know that if you are trying to get into a class on the first day that you consider yourself lucky if the professor concedes to let you in. You certainly do not class shop, I don't imagine telling a professor that you were class shopping would tell them you were interested enough in that class that they should make an exception for you. Here the general rule is if you are not on the roster, you can leave. Sure the professor seems a little arrogant, but it is HIS class, and he just made sure it stayed that way.

[Stretch]

You are putting it in the perspective that he's the head hancho.

Put it in the perspective that he is an employee and he has a meeting with the board of directors and one of them shows up an hour late. Is he gonna tell him to gtfo? Because in reality, the professor is just 1 guy out of thousands of teachers and anyone would take his job in a second*.

He is payed to teach us. We pay for him to teach us. Just fucking teach us and take the stick out of your ass.

There are thousands more potential MBA candidates than there are qualified industry experts / leaders to hire as professors.

I hope you have a different attitude when you interview for a job.

[Clove]

You are putting it in the perspective that he's the head hancho.

Put it in the perspective that he is an employee and he has a meeting with the board of directors and one of them shows up an hour late. Is he gonna tell him to gtfo? Because in reality, the professor is just 1 guy out of thousands of teachers and anyone would take his job in a second*.

He is payed to teach us. We pay for him to teach us. Just fucking teach us and take the stick out of your ass.I always loved hearing this attitude from classmates. The fact is it isn't a simple employer/employee relationship. But if you think it is well then it would have been as simple as the student complaining to the school "he kicked me out of class for being an hour late when I had a perfectly good reason, he should be disciplined..." to which the school will reply "show up on time next time." They aren't going to "fire" your professor for you because he didn't treat you like God's special creature.

Ultimately you ARE the boss and you DO pay the school so YOU can fire the professor. Quit the school and go to another. Not only would you be cutting your nose off to spite your face; but you'd likely face the same scenario at any other university you pulled your crap at.

Good luck convincing your professors they're your subordinates.

[Sean of the Thread]

What in the fudge is going on here.

[Geshron]

If I am paying for my education and putting myself in debt for a fair amount of years to come, I wouldn't want to hear a word out of a professor about something like this. Especially when I'm a working adult and have other things going on in life aside from moving from class to class. Nor do I owe the professor a reason or excuse. Regardless of how militant one is, no one else owns your time once you are out of the military. Just an FYI. Doesn't mean it's right to be compulsively late either but again, accept what you cannot control.

[CrystalTears]

If I am paying for my education and putting myself in debt for a fair amount of years to come, I wouldn't want to hear a word out of a professor about something like this. Especially when I'm a working adult and have other things going on in life aside from moving from class to class. Nor do I owe the professor a reason or excuse. Regardless of how militant one is, no one else owns your time once you are out of the military. Just an FYI. Doesn't mean it's right to be compulsively late either but again, accept what you cannot control.Right. So when you end up walking in half an hour late to a work meeting, tell the person running the meeting to suck it up because he can't control you.

This whole "I'm spending money so you have to kiss my ass" attitude is getting truly out of hand. How about you be a grown up and take responsibility for your actions. If you see you're going to be late to something you promised you'd attend on time, either call ahead to tell them you're going to be late, or see them afterwards with an apology. You don't stroll in late and figure that people should just accept that you're an inconsiderate jerk. Since when do other people have to suck it up when you're the one being a discourteous and self righteous person who feels their life is more important than anyone else's?

Some of the responses in this thread are amazing. Not surprising, just amazing. Not surprising because these are the kind of people who drive up a one-way street by mistake and then back out, causing people behind you to have to wait, rather than commit and continue through the street like a decent human being.

[AnticorRifling]

If I am paying for my education and putting myself in debt for a fair amount of years to come, I wouldn't want to hear a word out of a professor about something like this. Especially when I'm a working adult and have other things going on in life aside from moving from class to class. Nor do I owe the professor a reason or excuse. Regardless of how militant one is, no one else owns your time once you are out of the military. Just an FYI. Doesn't mean it's right to be compulsively late either but again, accept what you cannot control.
I disagree with all of this.

[Ker_Thwap]

It's the professor's class, he makes the rules. He has a responsibility to the other students in that class to maintain a learning environment. Late students disrupt, they ask repetitive questions, if allowed to stay they set a precedent that it's alright to wander in late, that the class isn't important enough to plan your schedule around.

Had the student in question, understood any of this to start with, he probably wouldn't have sent his ill considered Email to the professor. He compounded his stupidity by making an unreasonable assumption that the professor should have magically known the students reason for showing up an hour late.

I suspect had the student apologized for the class disruption, and given a valid excuse for being late, (My car broke down) then the professor would have pointed him towards some resources to make up the missing class information.

The student was selfish, and placed his time above every other student in that class, he bitched about it, and got some excellent advice in return. He can either learn from that advice and further himself as a human, or he can continue his selfish ways and struggle with certain aspects of life.

I'm not going to predict his future, there are a lot of selfish, illogical fools who do quite well in the business world.

[Androidpk]

I disagree with all of this.

I'm going to disagree with you disagreeing with that.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I disagree with all of this.

^ Same.

[AnticorRifling]

I'm going to disagree with you disagreeing with that.

I disagree with your disagreeing with my disagreement towards that. Shit I think my nose is bleeding see what you did PK!

[Clove]

Who the hell "commits" to a class?!? I'd say maybe less than 5% of the entire college population. :lol:I could not agree with this more. The top 5%.

[Androidpk]

I could not agree with this more. The top 5%.

Because you have to commit to a class in order to ace it. Yeahhhh...

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I wouldn't want to major in anything that didn't take commitment if I wanted to ace it.

[Androidpk]

I wouldn't want to major in anything that didn't take commitment if I wanted to ace it.

What major doesn't make you take BS classes though? And not committing to a class and acing it doesn't mean the class isn't worth your time, there could be other explanations as well.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Why does it feel like the people who advocate tardiness, class shopping and excusing disrespectful behavior are those who don't have careers yet?

[caelric]

Why does it feel like the people who advocate tardiness, class shopping and excusing disrespectful behavior are those who don't have careers yet?

Just a total coincidence, that's all.

[Drisco]

Why does it feel like the people who advocate tardiness, class shopping and excusing disrespectful behavior are those who don't have careers yet?


Maybe because you guys try and relate it to a business setting when it isn't one. All the examples you folks have put out so far have been, if I had a ceo and a meeting etc etc..

For a student it's a learning environment and for a teacher it is a work setting. He's there to teach and that is all. We are there to learn and that is all. If we come late continue teaching and we will sit an learn.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

What major doesn't make you take BS classes though? And not committing to a class and acing it doesn't mean the class isn't worth your time, there could be other explanations as well.

I'm going back to school in the fall. I don't/didn't see a single course in my load that looks like I'll be able to fuck around during it, not show up/show up late and generally expect to slide through let alone ace it.

I don't think you're in school for the right reasons if you can not commit to a class and ace it. IMO if you're not being challenged/pushed to really, you know, LEARN something, you're pissing 4 years of your money and time down the drain.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Maybe because you guys try and relate it to a business setting when it isn't one. All the examples you folks have put out so far have been, if I had a ceo and a meeting etc etc..

For a student it's a learning environment and for a teacher it is a work setting. He's there to teach and that is all. We are there to learn and that is all. If we come late continue teaching and we will sit an learn.

So it's all about you and teachers should have no consideration or respect at all?

So you come late and start asking questions that were covered already, who's time are you wasting? The instructor? Everyone in the class that had consideration to arrive on time? Would you demand the instructor answer the question, because hey, you are there to learn?

Do you treat the person behind the counter at the gas station the same way? Cut in line to the front, because hey, you are there to pay for your gas, fuck everyone else. Talk on your phone making everyone behind you wait, because hey, it's your time and RIGHT THIS SECOND you aren't there to pay. What about the grocery store? Fuck those 10 item or less lines, they are there to check groceries, those bitches work for you.

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. Good luck in life with that attitude you self consumed selfish piece of shit.

[AnticorRifling]

Dude college is not about getting ready for the real world so real world examples don't apply. Duh!

[Bobmuhthol]

<<IMO if you're not being challenged/pushed to really, you know, LEARN something, you're pissing 4 years of your money and time down the drain.>>

I'm not being challenged in my classes except for the heavy actuary stuff, but I still acknowledge that education is a signal of ability.

[EasternBrand]

I don't understand the generalized hostility to class shopping. I don't think it's right to sample overlapping classes on the same day as this fellow did, but I was under the impression that most universities typically offer the first week of classes as a shopping period. So, you can register for classes all week, and registration becomes final at the end of the day on Friday. This is how it always was for me, anyway: institutionally sanctioned.

[AnticorRifling]

It's not the intent, it's the method in which it was carried out in this scenario EB. Finding a good fit is great, walking in and out of classes at your whim and fancy not so much.

[Clove]

Because you have to commit to a class in order to ace it. Yeahhhh...No, but the more you commit to any goal the more successful and competitive you will be.

I repeat that "5%" that commit the most to their education are the 5% with the best academic careers.

[TheEschaton]

You are putting it in the perspective that he's the head hancho.

Put it in the perspective that he is an employee and he has a meeting with the board of directors and one of them shows up an hour late. Is he gonna tell him to gtfo? Because in reality, the professor is just 1 guy out of thousands of teachers and anyone would take his job in a second*.

He is payed to teach us. We pay for him to teach us. Just fucking teach us and take the stick out of your ass.

You're a classic douchebag. Just because you pay to be there, doesn't mean you have a right to shit on everyone else. 1) because everyone else paid to be there, and you're disrespecting them by being late, and 2) because the professor has paid to be there by presumedly studying for years, working for years, and so on and so forth. He's not your employee, douchebag.

Furthermore, your earlier comment about "Why should I not shop for teachers who give me better grades so I can get scholarships?" I'm sorry, if you're smart, and/or even passionate, you take the hard classes and still get As. I got scholarships and I only ever took classes I *loved* even when they were with shitty or tough professors. Another douchebag comment from you.

[CrystalTears]

Maybe because you guys try and relate it to a business setting when it isn't one. All the examples you folks have put out so far have been, if I had a ceo and a meeting etc etc..

For a student it's a learning environment and for a teacher it is a work setting. He's there to teach and that is all. We are there to learn and that is all. If we come late continue teaching and we will sit an learn.
WTF. Because college, especially graduate school, is about getting ready for the business setting.

And after four years, if you still haven't learned that the world does not revolve around you and people are not obligated to coddle someone who has no consideration for anyone else other than themselves, then you're going to fail at life.

[Cephalopod]

WTF. Because college, especially graduate school, is about getting ready for the business setting.


Perhaps he's in art school.

[Kithus]

Perhaps he's in art school.

Then he's doing the right thing preparing to impose his needs on others with no consideration for them.

[Atlanteax]

Or Law School for that matter.