Companion Mechanics

[Messianic Manic]

Looking for information on the mechanics of the different types of companions to help me choose one.

I am using the chart at http://drfuturepast.com/GSIV/GECP/ for my info but I am looking for information on how the different moves work in the game.. what is good, what is useless.

Avian
Moves: Wing buffet, knock down, stance
Not sure what wing buffet is, I can already knock down with my spells and force stance with feint.

Pros: Attacks flying creatures. I'm probably going to use arrows later on so this might not matter.

Cons: Puncture damage and the various things immune to it. And someone told me their bird sucks and never does anything, for whatever that is worth.

Canine
I think I've already ruled this out.. Puncture damage, not sure I care about my pet dragging me back, only move is disarm.. unless disarm is way more awesome than I think canine seems weak. Also disarm is available on the cman list.

Feline
Moves: Pounce, knockdown, double attack.
Pounce and knockdown sound very tame, I am imagining what pumas and stuff can do to a character, no wound.. some RT.. might even miss entirely. Double attack sounds intriguing.

Pros: Slash damage. Double attack? How well does it work?

Cons: ??

Rodent
Moves: hamstring, knockdown
Again knockdown doesn't sound like much, but hamstring sounds good. When I've been on the receiving end of hamstring I get wounds, RT lock, and knocked over.

Pros: Slash damage. Hamstring sounds awesome.

Cons: Am I overhyping hamstring? I can learn it from the cman list. Also rodent cannot drag but I don't think I personally care about that ability.

Also, side question, can companions go in warcamps and is it even a good idea? I'm thinking the thing would get killed while I'm swarmed and RT locked.

[thefarmer]

AC's in general are useless.

Pick whatever animal you like for personal or RP choice. Choosing on mechanics is a generally a waste of time.

[kgolfer]

Companions can go in warcamps.

[kgolfer]

Also, I quit spelling my wolf up a long time ago, they almost never get hit (at least mine doesn't).

I use mine the most to drag someone from greater constructs.

Companions are more of an RP aspect, not combat useful. They take to long to attack IMO. Once in a while they save you when you get stunned.

[WRoss]

I used to have a cloud sloth. That thing hit hard as shit when it did attack. Slow, though.

[Latrinsorm]

"I can already ... force stance with feint." "Also disarm is available on the cman list." "Am I overhyping hamstring? I can learn it from the cman list."

Rangers have too God damned many CMANs.

Signed,

The Player of a Warrior

[Messianic Manic]

Wow, so they can go in warcamps. Can you trust it to at least keep one Grim occupied? Or not even that?

[kgolfer]

My wolf goes with me where ever I go. He hasn't died in a long time.....years. Their DS is actually quite high.

[Drew]

Wow, so they can go in warcamps. Can you trust it to at least keep one Grim occupied? Or not even that?

No, they have a lower chance of being swung at then players. Much lower. ACs are combat useless past level 50. Like other people said. Pick based on what suits your character.

[Divinity]

I have an avian. It can send messages but you can get enough lore for 605 where you can whisper. It is slow on attacking but the GUARD ability is pretty awesome; saves me whenever I'm stunned.

My gyrefalcon has died once in the time I've had it and that was during a warcamp. It was attacking and got pwnt. That sucked but it recovered quickly on the affinity so it's no big deal.

Agreed with everyone else.. it's mostly for RP.

[Messianic Manic]

I guess I should have clarified this from the beginning - assume the spell would not even be casted if it was for a pure RP purpose.

However weak or inefficient the combat effectiveness may be, it is apparent from the posts that the companion affects combat in some way. It guards.. it hits hard as shit.. helpful input would be appreciated.

[thefarmer]

... helpful input would be appreciated.


AC's in general are useless.


Agreed with everyone else.. it's mostly for RP.


ACs are combat useless past level 50. Like other people said.


Companions are more of an RP aspect, not combat useful.

^

[Showal]

I'll add my 2 cents here. It is largely for RP, but that being said, there's more than a few times where I have been knocked on the ground and stunned when my companion has just automatically stepped in and stunned or knocked down the critter I'm fighting.

I get a decent amount of assistance from my companion in hunts. I also mainly solo hunt, so any assistance is a lot. Don't rely on them to act like another PC fighting alongside you, they attack very slowly (it seems like every 30 seconds, but I'm just guessing). However, if I'm not asking my companion to fight, but just follow me, that strike when I've been stunned is incredibly quick (as long as they are in the room and see it, if they walk in and you're already stunned, they'll just watch you die).

I have a rat.

[zhelas]

I won't repeat what the others have said because I agree with them.

Animal companions can go into Warcamps.. I personally wouldn't send mine in there. She got stuck and I needed help getting her out. Now all she does is sit outside the warcamp while I hunt inside.

The dragging aspect of the canines and felines can be VERY useful. They can on occasion drag a deader up or down a bank when you can't drag the corpse.

[droit]

Don't get me started on companions. Fuck them. Fuck them right in the ear.

Don't use one in combat (post-50 or whatever). They actually significantly reduce your efficiency and generally cause more frustration than they're worth.

[AMUSED1]

Don't get me started on companions. Fuck them. Fuck them right in the ear.

Apparently companions are good for some people's....habits. (joking)

[droit]

Apparently companions are good for some people's....habits. (joking)

Don't hate on my bestiality RP.

[BriarFox]

There are specific uses for companions. Archers do not incur AS negatives when using a companion's "guard" ability, for instance, which I find particularly useful in warcamps or in invasions. Someone already noted the dragging ability (very useful in OTF to get past constructs with a corpse). I also find it entertaining to have my fox destroy lower-level annoyances (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=41755). Overall, however, I agree with the above assertions.

[Celephais]

They actually significantly reduce your efficiency

How so?

[BriarFox]

How so?

They're slow. Using them significantly impairs your exp/time ratio.

[Celephais]

They're slow. Using them significantly impairs your exp/time ratio.

I don't really know much about the companion mechanics, but can't you just continue to fight as normal and let them either get in the occasional rare hit in a swarm, or just jump in when you get stunned?

If you're not actually waiting on them to attack, I don't see how it would impair you.

[BriarFox]

I don't really know much about the companion mechanics, but can't you just continue to fight as normal and let them either get in the occasional rare hit in a swarm, or just jump in when you get stunned?

If you're not actually waiting on them to attack, I don't see how it would impair you.

You have to input commands to use them effectively - tell them what to attack, to stop attacking, to follow you once the thing is dead, etc. It's slower. If you're an efficient hunter, chances are you won't even give the thing a chance to attack even once before the creature is dead, so you're just putting in useless and time-wasting commands.

[Showal]

I don't really know much about the companion mechanics, but can't you just continue to fight as normal and let them either get in the occasional rare hit in a swarm, or just jump in when you get stunned?

If you're not actually waiting on them to attack, I don't see how it would impair you.

I'm no pro at this game, so maybe I'm not getting what BriarFox is saying ... but you're right, Celephais, at least in my opinion.

They don't affect my hunting at all. I just ask it to attack something in a swarm and if it doesn't help much, it doesn't.

[BriarFox]

I'm no pro at this game, so maybe I'm not getting what BriarFox is saying ... but you're right, Celephais, at least in my opinion.

They don't affect my hunting at all. I just ask it to attack something in a swarm and if it doesn't help much, it doesn't.

You *can* do it, but it's usually not worth your while if you're quick to kill things.

Example:
Uber ranger enters room. UR tells companion to attack. Companion feels aggressive. UR shoots an arrow into critter's eye. Critter dies. Companion sniffs critter. UR moves on to next room, notices companion isn't following, tells companion to follow, and moves on.

Repeat ad nauseam.

[BriarFox]

You *can* do it, but it's usually not worth your while if you're quick to kill things.

Example:
Uber ranger enters room. UR tells companion to attack. Companion feels aggressive. UR shoots an arrow into critter's eye. Critter dies. Companion sniffs critter. UR moves on to next room, notices companion isn't following, tells companion to follow, and moves on.

Repeat ad nauseam.

Oh, and if you're above level 50ish, this is what happens if it does, on that rare occasion, get a chance to hit a creature:

Example:
Uber ranger enters room. UR tells companion to attack. Companion feels aggressive. UR shoots an arrow into critter's leg. Critter falls over. Companion bites critter's toe for 5 damage. UR shoots arrow into critter's head, stunning it. Companion attacks and misses. UR spikethorns critter. Critter dies. Companion sniffs dead body. UR moves on to next room, notices companion isn't following, tells companion to follow, and moves on.

[Showal]

You *can* do it, but it's usually not worth your while if you're quick to kill things.

Example:
Uber ranger enters room. UR tells companion to attack. Companion feels aggressive. UR shoots an arrow into critter's eye. Critter dies. Companion sniffs critter. UR moves on to next room, notices companion isn't following, tells companion to follow, and moves on.

Repeat ad nauseam.


Yeah ... it's not "efficient", as you're calling it, by really any means.

haha i'm admittedly an inefficient hunter.

[droit]

Right. What I was trying to say was that if you try to use companions for hunting, it's inefficient. But even if you're not actively commanding them, they start to get on your nerves because they're always getting stuck in rooms, despite repeated commands for them to follow, they get stuck in obnoxious mode while resting and pull people out of hiding, and generally don't even function well as RP tools thanks to the significant lag between command and action (if they ever actually fucking DO the action).

Basically, IMO, they're more frustrating than useful. Their entire script needs to be reworked.

[Celephais]

What about just setting and forgetting? The whole attack when you get stunned thing? You shouldn't be getting stunned, but it happens on occasion.

That and if uber ranger really wants to be efficient they shouldn't be manually entering commands anyway (unless there's some RT associated with telling them to do something, it's effectively free).

[droit]

What about just setting and forgetting? The whole attack when you get stunned thing? You shouldn't be getting stunned, but it happens on occasion.

Have you used a companion? It doesn't work at high levels. Just straight up doesn't work. Sure, you can just have him follow you around and possibly attack when you get stunned and it will have perhaps a 10% chance of hitting the target, with a 90% chance of that hit being a minor. Say your hunting effectiveness solo was quantified at 1.00. I'd say having a companion with you increases that hunting effectiveness to 1.02. Again, this is for the high levels. It may be more effective earlier.


That and if uber ranger really wants to be efficient they shouldn't be manually entering commands anyway (unless there's some RT associated with telling them to do something, it's effectively free).

I personally don't script hunt at all. I just use macros and a couple very simple scripts.

[Celephais]

Have you used a companion? It doesn't work at high levels. Just straight up doesn't work. Sure, you can just have him follow you around and possibly attack when you get stunned and it will have perhaps a 10% chance of hitting the target, with a 90% chance of that hit being a minor. Say your hunting effectiveness solo was quantified at 1.00. I'd say having a companion with you increases that hunting effectiveness to 1.02. Again, this is for the high levels. It may be more effective earlier.
Nope, never used one. 1.02 > 1.00 ... There are plenty of other spells that offer very minimal improvement but people still use them.


I personally don't script hunt at all. I just use macros and a couple very simple scripts.
That's fine for a personal choice, but not the case for everyone, you should also be able to encorporate the companion into macros, just tack 'tell companion to attack third orc' onto the end of your 'fire bow' macro ... most of the time there won't be a third orc, but maybe there will be, no added harm to you (squelch out the text for it so you never notice it).

You can't say a spell hinders your efficiency and then say it only offers a minimal improvement. Improvement is improvement.

[droit]

My point was that the mental aggravation you suffer from the poorly designed companion script logic is not worth the extremely slight mechanical benefit. It's seriously keyboard-crushingly horrible. Go get a companion and you'll see what I mean.

[Divinity]

There are specific uses for companions. Archers do not incur AS negatives when using a companion's "guard" ability, for instance, which I find particularly useful in warcamps or in invasions. Someone already noted the dragging ability (very useful in OTF to get past constructs with a corpse). I also find it entertaining to have my fox destroy lower-level annoyances (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=41755). Overall, however, I agree with the above assertions.

This is giggle and facepalm worthy. Nice.

[Divinity]

Oh, and if you're above level 50ish, this is what happens if it does, on that rare occasion, get a chance to hit a creature:

Example:
Uber ranger enters room. UR tells companion to attack. Companion feels aggressive. UR shoots an arrow into critter's leg. Critter falls over. Companion bites critter's toe for 5 damage. UR shoots arrow into critter's head, stunning it. Companion attacks and misses. UR spikethorns critter. Critter dies. Companion sniffs dead body. UR moves on to next room, notices companion isn't following, tells companion to follow, and moves on.

My personal favorite is when UR kills the creature with an eye crit and the Companion stabs at a dead body. Good times.

[Showal]

haha yeah why does the critter sniff the damned body anyways??

[BriarFox]

haha yeah why does the critter sniff the damned body anyways??

The companion makes an action, and if the critter is alive, it attacks, if it's dead, it sniffs. It's supposed to add realism or something.

[Showal]

Probably also shows a "recognition" that the user asked it to do something ... mainly to keep people from REPORT MY AC ISN'T WORKING!

[droit]

Probably also shows a "recognition" that the user asked it to do something ... mainly to keep people from REPORT MY AC ISN'T WORKING!

...when really all it does is waste another 9 second round.

[zhelas]

Between Levels 30 and 50 the Animal Companions CAN be useful. When hunting shan, I would throw down some vines have my panther attack while I shot my arrows. It was pretty effective. She has killed the giants around Icemule when I was stunned.

However after level 50 they really don't do all that much anymore.

[Showal]

...when really all it does is waste another 9 second round.

I don't get RT, if that's what you mean.

and it takes me all of 2 seconds during a 5 second RT in an attack to type "Tell comp to attack <critter>" and wait until RT is up. I have everything else on macros so it doesn't hold me back or waste any time.

I think the key is don't do anything with your companion you wouldn't be capable of doing alone and think you're now going to be able to do it.

[droit]

I don't get RT, if that's what you mean.

and it takes me all of 2 seconds during a 5 second RT in an attack to type "Tell comp to attack <critter>" and wait until RT is up. I have everything else on macros so it doesn't hold me back or waste any time.

I think the key is don't do anything with your companion you wouldn't be capable of doing alone and think you're now going to be able to do it.

No, I was referring to the companions round time. It takes them between 1 and 2 rounds after your command to start attacking, then once the creature is dead it, loses a round sniffing the corpse, then it takes another 1 to 2 rounds to attack the next target. Worst designed system evar.

[Drew]

I'm really hoping for some AC improvements now that Warden is out.

[Trallihn]

No, I was referring to the companions round time. It takes them between 1 and 2 rounds after your command to start attacking, then once the creature is dead it, loses a round sniffing the corpse, then it takes another 1 to 2 rounds to attack the next target. Worst designed system evar.

Yeah, since I fully bonded to mine it completely stopped working (Picked it up at 37, at 43 now and it's pretty damned worthless mechanics wise). It might follow me to the hunting ground, it probably won't. And if it does, it gets stuck right off the bat.

And nothing like a 10-15 second RT for telling your companion to fly/land.

Strictly RP with the occassional stun save (And more than half the time thats a missed strike rather than a wing buffett). I think mines been swung at all of one time. When I did use it for hunting it MIGHT have done a combined damage of 35-50 throughout an entire hunt. Hell, not even enough to kill a kobold in most cases! So yeah, ACs are in serious need of work, but I'm content to just have a vulture (Sometimes two) circle over head and make consistantly repetitive movements.

Tom

[thefarmer]

I'm really hoping for some AC improvements now that Warden is out.

Somehow I don't think it'll make a difference.

As far as I know, Mestys has never commented in any of the AC complaint threads. More than likely, it's just not seen as an issue.

I'm sure he's too busy beefing up clerics and empaths with Estlid, and other gamewide systems.

[Drew]

Somehow I don't think it'll make a difference.

As far as I know, Mestys has never commented in any of the AC complaint threads. More than likely, it's just not seen as an issue.

I'm sure he's too busy beefing up clerics and empaths with Estlid, and other gamewide systems.

He's commented basically to say the code is old and musty and would need a lot of work to change it. He has some ideas, but they aren't on the front burner.

[thefarmer]

He's commented basically to say the code is old and musty and would need a lot of work to change it. He has some ideas, but they aren't on the front burner.

I must have missed them I guess. At least he's posted that a change is needed, all we get in the Paladin folder is silence, or nerfs due to some other game change to another system.

[BriarFox]

To this thread, I would like to add:




Creating character ... SUCCESS!

>info

Name: Uberranger Race: Giantman Profession: Ranger (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 10 Level: 0
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 80 (30) ... 80 (30)
Constitution (CON): 50 (10) ... 50 (10)
Dexterity (DEX): 90 (15) ... 90 (15)
Agility (AGI): 70 (5) ... 70 (5)
Discipline (DIS): 70 (10) ... 70 (10)
Aura (AUR): 70 (5) ... 70 (5)
Logic (LOG): 50 (-5) ... 50 (-5)
Intuition (INT): 90 (20) ... 90 (20)
Wisdom (WIS): 70 (10) ... 70 (10)
Influence (INF): 20 (-10) ... 20 (-10)
Mana: 1 Silver: 860

>stat

Active Players: 221

Staff on duty:

Use WHO HELP for more options.

[BriarFox]

And still going strong!



[Silverwood Manor, Courtyard]
A low stone fence, capped with a domed layer of fresh snow, separates the manor from the street. Lining the rest of the courtyard are some carefully pruned juniper bushes, adding a bit of verdant green to the white, wintry surroundings. A shoveled walkway leads through a pristine expanse of snow to the carved haon door. A large gilded plaque is affixed to the wall of the rather imposing manor, and partially hidden behind a snowbank is a donation bin. You also see a silver bell with a long silken rope.
Obvious paths: out
>
Notice: Your training grace period is scheduled to end at 3/4/2010 01:32:50 CST (more than a week from now). When this time has passed, you will no longer be able to adjust your stats by checking in to an inn, and your skill migration will proceed at the normal rate (i.e., not accelerated like it is now).

>look
[Silverwood Manor, Courtyard]
A low stone fence, capped with a domed layer of fresh snow, separates the manor from the street. Lining the rest of the courtyard are some carefully pruned juniper bushes, adding a bit of verdant green to the white, wintry surroundings. A shoveled walkway leads through a pristine expanse of snow to the carved haon door. A large gilded plaque is affixed to the wall of the rather imposing manor, and partially hidden behind a snowbank is a donation bin. You also see a silver bell with a long silken rope.
Obvious paths: out

[Showal]

I don't get it?

[Latrinsorm]

Name: Uberranger

(Uberranger uberrangers)

[BriarFox]

I'm just surprised they haven't sent me to rename myself yet.

[Showal]

hahaha oh ok, i didn't even look at the name.

[IorakeWarhammer]

Canine
I think I've already ruled this out.. Puncture damage, not sure I care about my pet dragging me back, only move is disarm.. unless disarm is way more awesome than I think canine seems weak. Also disarm is available on the cman list.



any logs of canines in action? IN GEMSTONE K NO BESTIALITY!!!

i would love to test this with someone if they're willing

[Drew]

ACs are terrible in combat and you will never use them. If you want one for PvP pick a rodent since they are ever so slightly better.

[IorakeWarhammer]

hilarious avatar btw. so canine disarm sucks?

[Drew]

Those abilities fire off so infrequently it doesn't even matter. Seriously just read this whole thread.

[Caiylania]

Me, too. And I don't even have one.

[Daragon]

So...I take it we can't get a bear as a companion huh? That sucks I would love to have had a bear with slash and puncture attacks, plus knockdown and disarm....oh wait I now see why they aren't companions...

[zhelas]

Those abilities fire off so infrequently it doesn't even matter. Seriously just read this whole thread.

Drew is right on the money.... this thread really explains their mechanics.

Animal companions are just for role play and excellent markers to sit out in front of war camp entrances.

If you want a canine then great! Get one. If you still want to see what they can do, see if there is a ranger about in prime who has a canine and will show you how pitiful they hunt. You might want to see if you can find rangers with the other classes and have them demonstrate their companions.

The best ability I think canines and felines have is being able to drag a dead body. Especially over some difficult terrains.

[Showal]

Yeah contact me if you want to see a rodent in action.

[BriarFox]

Filcher. :(

[Gnomad]

Give rangers and bards an activated passive CMAN (like stealth mastery or surge) that gives, say, a 7% chance per rank for their companion/singing sword to follow up your attack with one of their own.

I think that would help a bit, at least until people start QQing about semis getting a signature CMAN. That way, though, by training both physical and mental skills (like a semi should) they get a more useful ability.

[IorakeWarhammer]

thats a fucking awesome idea dude.

[IorakeWarhammer]

Yeah contact me if you want to see a rodent in action.

logs plox