Sunfist?

[Wrathbringer]

As a long time player who is uncomfortable with change, I'm just getting around to looking at Sunfist as a possible society convert. In the past I've mastered both other societies, so I know what they have to offer. Surprisingly/unsurprisingly, the gemstone.net home page doesn't yet have sunfist under the Organizations>Societies link. I just read the guide on Sunfist at gsguide.net and it seems to explain things fairly well. Only thing it didn't list was the stamina/mana costs of each sigil. If anyone can point me to somewhere that does, that'd help too. Mostly, I'm just wondering about how useful people find the abilities (crit/damage weighting/padding for 1 minute? Doesn't sound the best). I'm sure profession makes a difference, my main is a paladin. Also wondering how long it takes to master the society compared to the other two. Just trying to figure out if it's worth it for me to convert. Appreciate any help here. :thanx:

[Drew]

What level are you?

[Wrathbringer]

46

[droit]

http://gsguide.net/index.php?title=The_Guardians_of_Sunfist_Guide

I'm not going to rehash the argument why Sunfist is a superior society because it has been done ad nauseum on the boards. Just look back at some previous threads.

[Drevihyin]

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Guardians_of_Sunfist#Gaining_Ranks_and_Obtaining_S igils

[kgolfer]

The only thing I will add is......be prepared for a long angonizing path that has a lot of death along the way......

AK

[Wrathbringer]

The only thing I will add is......be prepared for a long angonizing path that has a lot of death along the way......

AK

heh. How long? COL is quick, Voln takes longer and Sunfist?

[BriarFox]

Time to completion, in order: CoL, GoS, Voln (by a long shot). You can master GoS as quickly as you want - you get points for killing every creature of the right type, and they add up fast. Quickest way, though, is to get a group and raze camps, and do other society tasks. Belnia did it in, what, 2 days?

[Wrathbringer]

Oh wow, 2 days? Really? Thanks Briarfox. And the usefulness of the abilities aspect?

[AMUSED1]

Oh wow, 2 days? Really? Thanks Briarfox. And the usefulness of the abilities aspect?

Extremely useful if you have the stamina and mana to keep them up constantly. Or even some of them up constantly.

[dacatchman]

Voln is in serious need of a touch up....

I've mastered voln on two characters prior to the release of GOS, and I'm never doing it again.

Next character is going into sunfist for sure. Padding and weighting for a little mana and stamina?

Sign me up!

[Marl]

soloing sunfist ranking up is taking me quite awhile... have yet to reach rank 10 on either char

[Fallen]

For a Paladin, i've been told that while Sunfist is nifty, COL was just as mechanically useful. You've set it and forget it COL signs as opposed to babysitting short-lived sigils which can be extremely mana/stamina intensive unless you mix and max. Do you run lich or PSInet? I am told Lich is ideal for Sunfist as you can have several scripts running in the background, including an intelligent one which will restore your sigils as your free stam/mana allows.

[Wrathbringer]

For a Paladin, i've been told that while Sunfist is nifty, COL was just as mechanically useful. You've set it and forget it COL signs as opposed to babysitting short-lived sigils which can be extremely mana/stamina intensive unless you mix and max. Do you run lich or PSInet? I am told Lich is ideal for Sunfist as you can have several scripts running in the background, including an intelligent one which will restore your sigils as your free stam/mana allows.

I just run the plain wizard front end (back to my resisting change thing), though lich sounds interesting. I'm currently COL, but the only signs I ever use are striking, smiting, swords, defending, shields, warding and darkness, and those give me +35 AS, +30 DS, +5 TD and the ability to transport back to town. If my current stamina (107 stamina) and mana (140) will allow me to refresh the necessary sigils to equal those numbers, have the padding running, and still leave mana for 1615 for each hunt, conversion a no brainer. But will they?

[BriarFox]

I just run the plain wizard front end (back to my resisting change thing), though lich sounds interesting. I'm currently COL, but the only signs I ever use are striking, smiting, swords, defending, shields, warding and darkness, and those give me +35 AS, +30 DS, +5 TD and the ability to transport back to town. If my current stamina (107 stamina) and mana (140) will allow me to refresh the necessary sigils to equal those numbers, have the padding running, and still leave mana for 1615 for each hunt, conversion a no brainer. But will they?

With your mana and stamina, you'll have to pick and choose the weighting and padding signs - you could fairly easily keep heavy damage weighting and heavy damage padding up, even constantly if you don't use much mana otherwise, but you don't have the energy pools to use crit padding and weighting constantly.

[Fallen]

I just run the plain wizard front end (back to my resisting change thing), though lich sounds interesting. I'm currently COL, but the only signs I ever use are striking, smiting, swords, defending, shields, warding and darkness, and those give me +35 AS, +30 DS, +5 TD and the ability to transport back to town. If my current stamina (107 stamina) and mana (140) will allow me to refresh the necessary sigils to equal those numbers, have the padding running, and still leave mana for 1615 for each hunt, conversion a no brainer. But will they?

I do not believe it is easy to maintain the equivalent of COL sign AS and DS in GoS as a Semi. The problem is part of that AS and DS comes from running the sigils which provide you with padding and weighting, and those signs are designed to be expensive. If you want consistent AS/DS gains on par with what COL gives you, I think you may be in for a bit of disappointment.

[Wrathbringer]

With your mana and stamina, you'll have to pick and choose the weighting and padding signs - you could fairly easily keep heavy damage weighting and heavy damage padding up, even constantly if you don't use much mana otherwise, but you don't have the energy pools to use crit padding and weighting constantly.

Alright, understood. Thanks. And the AS DS boosts? Also, is Escape like darkness and sends you back to town?

[Fallen]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=30420&highlight=Sunfist+Sigils

This is a good thread for detailing Sunfist powers and costs. I believe everything is accurate.

[AMUSED1]

I just run the plain wizard front end (back to my resisting change thing), though lich sounds interesting. I'm currently COL, but the only signs I ever use are striking, smiting, swords, defending, shields, warding and darkness, and those give me +35 AS, +30 DS, +5 TD and the ability to transport back to town. If my current stamina (107 stamina) and mana (140) will allow me to refresh the necessary sigils to equal those numbers, have the padding running, and still leave mana for 1615 for each hunt, conversion a no brainer. But will they?

Umm, those signs give you 35 DS, not 30.

[Wrathbringer]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=30420&highlight=Sunfist+Sigils

This is a good thread for detailing Sunfist powers and costs. I believe everything is accurate.

Appreciated, I'll run the numbers and count the costs. Appreciate everyone's responses, they've been very helpful. Still curious about Escape though...

Rank 20: Sigil of Escape. Teleports you to a safe place. If used while stunned, webbed, bound, or suffering from roundtime then it transfers your a shorter distance and costs more. Not Hindered cost: 75 Stamina and 15 mana points. Hindered cost: Need a minimum of 10 stamina and mana points. Will drain you into the negative in both. Also only usable once in a 24 hour period.

Safe place? The next room? or...?

[Wrathbringer]

Umm, those signs give you 35 DS, not 30.

Isn't defending +10 and shields +20?

[Fallen]

Plus warding which is 5

Warding: 5 DS
Defending: 10 DS
Shields: 20

I think.

[kgolfer]

What's the best Gos lich program to keep all the sigils running?

AK

[Wrathbringer]

I thought warding was +5 td? Anyway, with the sigils that boost AS and DS 1 point per rank, at rank 20, that should at least be +20 each, right? Not too shabby, even if they don't stack with the +5 AS and DS sigils.

Edit: Just looked, warding is indeed +5 DS, my mistake. +35 AS and DS is nice... but the padding may make up for that. I'll have to weigh the costs. Thanks again all.

[Fallen]

I thought warding was +5 td? Anyway, with the sigils that boost AS and DS 1 point per rank, at rank 20, that should at least be +20 each, right? Not too shabby, even if they don't stack with the +5 AS and DS sigils.

Dissipation is the TD one, I believe. Deflection is Bolt DS.

[pabstblueribbon]

What's the best Gos lich program to keep all the sigils running?

AK

There is sigil.lic and society.lic.

Might be more..

[caelric]

With Sigil of Offense/Defense running, you get +20 AS/DS. Those are very easy to keep up continuously. Major Bane/Major Protection are +10 AS/DS,, and heavy crit weighting/crit padding. Problem is the one minute duration.

However, at 39 trainings, my THW swinging sorceree can keep all four of those sigils up continuously, IF he has Sigil of concentration running (whihc lasts 10 minutes and gives a +10 mana regen bonus) He is signled in PF, and has 90 Stamina. You, with 107 stamina, should be able to keep them up slightly more easily, mana dependent.

[Drew]

It's annoying how neither KP nor GSguides tell you how much each sigil costs to use.

[caelric]

They do, if you click on the individual sigils

[kgolfer]

Krakiipedia tells you also.

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Guardians_of_Sunfist

AK

[Sylvan Dreams]

I just run the plain wizard front end (back to my resisting change thing), though lich sounds interesting. I'm currently COL, but the only signs I ever use are striking, smiting, swords, defending, shields, warding and darkness, and those give me +35 AS, +30 DS, +5 TD and the ability to transport back to town. If my current stamina (107 stamina) and mana (140) will allow me to refresh the necessary sigils to equal those numbers, have the padding running, and still leave mana for 1615 for each hunt, conversion a no brainer. But will they?

Your current stamina will not be enough to keep all the signs running, allow for spells and allow for cman's. The GoS sigils are extremely short in duration - about 1.5 minutes, though some can be stacked to 3. It's incredibly annoying to have to refresh them all the time. Some of the sigils are nifty and useful yes, but in terms of ease of use, CoL is definitely a set it and forget it situation where GoS requires a lot of micromanaging. My paladin has very close to 300 stamina and that gets dropped down to about 40-50 (I don't know the exact numbers offhand) at the beginning of a hunt getting all the sigils up. Rejuvenation helps offset the loss but it's still a big drain.

GoS has the warcamps, yes, but it can be difficult to find a warcamp in some areas, as there are a few groups that like to go around and hunt the camps (if you read the officials, you'll read the complaints about it from time to time). Some people consider the warcamps to be fun, some people find them tedious. It's a personal preference. They're like mini-invasions, and if that's your bag you should have fun doing them as long as your group doesn't suck.

Progression in GoS was something that I found to be annoying, especially the task that requires you to travel all over the game to get 3 screen scrolls of speech from various NPC's. I personally found very little "fun" in progressing through GoS and one of the two reasons (one of which no longer exists) that I'm still in GoS is because of the amount of time that I invested in completing it.

[droit]

My paladin has very close to 300 stamina and that gets dropped down to about 40-50 (I don't know the exact numbers offhand) at the beginning of a hunt getting all the sigils up. Rejuvenation helps offset the loss but it's still a big drain.

I call bullshit. Explain to me how you have close to 300 stamina. Furthermore, in order to drop your stamina to levels that low, you must be putting on every single possible sigil plus surge, which is just retarded. Lrn2manage. Prospective GoSers, please don't give this statement any credence.


GoS has the warcamps, yes, but it can be difficult to find a warcamp in some areas, as there are a few groups that like to go around and hunt the camps (if you read the officials, you'll read the complaints about it from time to time).

In the highest traffic area in the game, it usually takes me about 5 minutes to find a camp. Sometimes it takes up to 15, but that's incredibly rare.


Progression in GoS was something that I found to be annoying, especially the task that requires you to travel all over the game to get 3 screen scrolls of speech from various NPC's. I personally found very little "fun" in progressing through GoS and one of the two reasons (one of which no longer exists) that I'm still in GoS is because of the amount of time that I invested in completing it.

Well that's a personal preference. I still enjoy it, as do many others. Yes, the 'Round the World task was a pain, but you only have to do it once. Rank 10 was a fun challenge, and rank 20 is one of the best things I've experienced in Gemstone. To each, their own, I guess.

[Danical]

My paladin has very close to 300 stamina and that gets dropped down to about 40-50 (I don't know the exact numbers offhand) at the beginning of a hunt getting all the sigils up.

You're doing it wrong.

It will cost you under between 55-70 stamina to throw up 3 minutes of Major (15x3) or Minor Protection (10x3) and Focus (5x3) in addition to 5 minutes of Sigil of Offense (5) and Defense (5).

EDIT: Major/Minor Bane you throw up as needed for 1 minute duration.

[AMUSED1]

I call bullshit. Explain to me how you have close to 300 stamina. Furthermore, in order to drop your stamina to levels that low, you must be putting on every single possible sigil plus surge, which is just retarded. Lrn2manage. Prospective GoSers, please don't give this statement any credence.



In the highest traffic area in the game, it usually takes me about 5 minutes to find a camp. Sometimes it takes up to 15, but that's incredibly rare.



Well that's a personal preference. I still enjoy it, as do many others. Yes, the 'Round the World task was a pain, but you only have to do it once. Rank 10 was a fun challenge, and rank 20 is one of the best things I've experienced in Gemstone. To each, their own, I guess.

I call bullshit on close to 300 stamina too. As a bard with max PT, and enhancives for max stamina, I only have 140 stamina. Even if you had 303 ranks of PT that would only be 33 more stamina than someone has with 202 PT ranks.

[caelric]

So, we've confirmed that 300 stamina is BS. I also can say that at 90 stamina, I can keep off/def running, concentration, mending, and 3 minutes of major protection up at all times, with major bane up when I run into a foe. I don't have much left for cmans, but I don't have many cmans, so it's a wash. I have enough mana for ewave and for a limb disrupt if I need it.

So, thes rest of the argument is BS, as well.

[Rimalon]

Belnia did it in, what, 2 days?

Belnia and RIMALON did it in 2 days. And we would have beat Tsin, too, if I didn't have to work.

Fuck.

...Also, I'll say that as a pure, with 110 stamina, I can keep all that shit running constantly. Just have to go minor protection instead of major.

[Drew]

Belnia and RIMALON did it in 2 days.

Rima-who?

[AMUSED1]

As a purebard I can keep up defense, major prot, minor prot, concentration, and focus 100% of the time. 202 PT ranks and 140 stamina. Also while using power a decent amount. Yay for stamina recovery enhancives.

[BriarFox]

As a purebard I can keep up defense, major prot, minor prot, concentration, and focus 100% of the time. 202 PT ranks and 140 stamina. Also while using power a decent amount. Yay for stamina recovery enhancives.

Major and minor protection don't stack, though. If you're using them together, you're wasting energy.

[zhelas]

Of the 4 souls I have only one is still in COL , my Sorcerer....

My warrior, Ranger and Warpath all left COL and are now in Sunfist.

Sure Rank 5 is a time sink. But it is what it is.

Temporary Weighting, Crit padding(these do stack on pre existing padded armor and weighted weapons), Sigil of escape(You are stunned...webbed..about to die.. Sigil of escape... Try that with sign of darkness or symbol of return), Sigil of Mending, Concentration.. all good stuff.

As for the short durations. I have highlighted all of the messages telling me they have worn off. I press my macro and boom they are up again.

Peace

[The-Pwny-Express]

My warriors like rank 16 GoS. I'd have rather just put him in Col but I've already invested so much I'm just like fuck it, I'll stick with it. The extra 15 AS/DS you get from col signs (since theres no way in hell at this point I could keep up anything other than sigil of offense/defense which will be +20 at master) I miss alot. You think the HCW HCP from the other sigils is awesome, until you have to refresh for insane costs every minute. It's a huge pain in the ass compared to signs which I believe duration goes off of your level. It blows for a square unless you're training heavily in HP and at a decent level already to have plenty of mana/stamina (hope you don't use CM at all during hunts, you'll need ur stamina for sigils) and enjoy refreshing sigils constantly. If you're swinging I'd suggest just save and buy HCW/HCP gear and fuck GoS. It might be viable for a semi, especially a paladin with those stamina regen percs. Not to mention the mana regen sigil would be usefull by itself. But for my warrior it was an epic fail.

[Marl]

on my warrior (only like rank 8 in sunfist)
i keep up minor bane offense and defense constanly
usually that mixed in with some feints a surge and constant berserking...

I never have stamina problems and rarely have mana issues (10 hp at this point)

[The-Pwny-Express]

what level? Also minor bane is what 3/3 mana stamina per minute? major sigils are 10/10 and 15/10 EVERY minute. Big difference.

[Marl]

just turned 20

[The-Pwny-Express]

yeah it might work out with the both minor sigils. 13 stam/8 mana a minute since offense/defense might have to be refreshed only once a hunt I wouldn't count that into it. A loss of like 10 as/ds in exchange for a bit of a hassle throwing it up every minute/3 minutes depending on what you can stand and you get HDW/P.....much later on can probably hold up the major sigils without problem. But for me I'm already in HCW and HCP gear since I've joined GoS and it's just kind of pointless now. I basically just lost the AS/DS from signs and gained a hassle. It depends on your situation whether it's better or worse, that's obvious though.

[Marl]

yea, I will be using the HCP one and sticking with the HDW one due to swinging a claid, I can see trying to throw em all up could kick your butt mana/stamina wise

i know my wiz has a hard time with the stamina

[The-Pwny-Express]

not to mention the weighting bonus only works against trolls/giants/orcs and such anyways. It's just an AS boost against any other critter

[caelric]

not to mention the weighting bonus only works against trolls/giants/orcs and such anyways. It's just an AS boost against any other critter

Which is probably more creatures than you think (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guardians_of_Sunfist_hated_enemies)

[The-Pwny-Express]

wow, yeah searching play.net's beastiary for troll/orcs/giants FTL. I didn't know about all the others

[caelric]

Word.

Currently my THW swinging sorcerer is blazing his way through kiramon. Has been since 32 trainings, and is now at 40 trainings. Lots of gems from them, and they are hated enemies. Works out great.

[The-Pwny-Express]

All these swinging sorcs now! Wtf is going on? Did I miss something?.....


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/xxxchilidogxxx/Thread%20Topic%20Pix/27.jpg

[caelric]

No, this is in Plat, where things are ......weird.....

[zhelas]

The dwarf warrior at 34, never has problems with mana (48) or stamina (122) I basically use sigil of defense and offense, and sigil of mending while I am in a camp. I personally don't mind missing the +15 from COL. I walk into camp with a +9 Claid and the berserking just destroys them.

(at level 34), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 208 108
Combat Maneuvers...................| 172 72
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 172 72
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 130 35
Physical Fitness...................| 170 70
Dodging............................| 170 70
Arcane Symbols.....................| 35 7
Magic Item Use.....................| 35 7
Harness Power......................| 74 16
Perception.........................| 78 17
Climbing...........................| 82 18
Swimming...........................| 82 18

When I am out of stamina. I walk out the pathway and recoup just outside.

If the finger wagglers get lucky and I am getting plinked to death while stuck in RT. I have sigil of escape in my pocket.

If I get diseased, sigil of mending usually can keep it at bay until it wears off.

To be in Sunfist or not really is a personal preference. Choose what you like.