Dodge & Hauberk vs. MBP

[xsammaritan]

Although this might be better posted in rogues - I'm still a victim of the old school mentality that MBP was the end all armor for higher train pure ambushing rogues. That being said, I have a 48 train double-CM & double-dodge trained rogue with armor evasion learned and armor mastery. Shoud I shift back to chain ASG armor to gain the benefit to dodge from armor evasion and armor mastery, or fixskills my CMANS/Armor use to other ventures and remain in MBP?

[Endlin]

I've always found opinions to be pretty split here.

I'm an advocate of MBP myself. But I can certainly see the argument for staying in chain.

But my personal opinion is that if you aren't wanting to cast spells while hunting, MBP is the way to go. 10 better CvA than hauberk (I think?), a lower DF against all weapon types, and the action penalty is only higher by 2.

[droit]

The DS difference between the two is negligible at most, even at high levels of dodge training.

[Drew]

The only reason to stay in hauberk is if you are casting spells.

[xsammaritan]

So should I even waste my CMANS on evade mastery or ARMOR skills on armor evasion since their formulas seem to bottom out with Plate class armors?

[droit]

Emastery isn't worth it at all, but armor evasion helps with maneuver defense. If you find you have problems with critter maneuvers (not CMANs), armored evasion is worth learning.

[Endlin]

Armor evasion is not a complete waste.

I'm pretty sure if you're trained fully for MBP, you can have 3 ranks of armor evasion which is a reduction of 3 to AP.

Then when you consider the overtraining benefits and getting up to Rank 5 armor evasion, you could be walkin around in plate class armor with the AP a leather breastplate (unless my quick math is fucked up).

Granted that's nearly 200 ranks of armor use but... The potential is kinda cool.

[Morrff]

35lb full plate + 2x armor use + armor evasion + 2x dodging + 2x hiding and sniping seems to work pretty good for me. I still dodge quite a bit when in the open. Of course I'm going by post cap abilities so this wouldn't work for lower levels but it's what seems to work for me.

[xsammaritan]

Thanks for the inputs everyone, time to get back those emastery CMANS...

[DaCapn]

Thanks for the inputs everyone, time to get back those emastery CMANS...

Isn't that what everyone advised you to NOT do? Are you confused about which ones people are talking about or did you just make a typo? Or are you going into lighter armor?

Armored evasion : (armor specialization) Incredibly great for the plate AG. Incredibly useless for soft/rigid leather AGs.
Evade mastery : (combat maneuver) Great for soft/rigid leather AGs. Bad in the chain AG and abysmal in plate.

Depending upon your training/race I think the top CM picks are:
- Combat Mobility (For all rogues)
- Surge of Strength (For ranged users and small races)
- Dirtkick (Mostly vs. perceptive critters and repeat hiders)
- Evade Mastery (AG <= 3)
- I wish I could say Shadow Mastery deserves a formal mention.

EDIT: I may have been a bit overzealous in saying that armored evasion is incredibly useless for soft/rigid AGs but I certainly wouldn't train in it personally unless I had 0 ranks in hide.

[Endlin]

Isn't that what everyone advised you to NOT do? Are you confused about which ones people are talking about or did you just make a typo? Or are you going into lighter armor?

Armored evasion : (armor specialization) Incredibly great for the plate AG. Incredibly useless for soft/rigid leather AGs.
Evade mastery : (combat maneuver) Great for soft/rigid leather AGs. Bad in the chain AG and abysmal in plate.

Depending upon your training/race I think the top CM picks are:
- Combat Mobility (For all rogues)
- Surge of Strength (For ranged users and small races)
- Dirtkick (Mostly vs. perceptive critters and repeat hiders)
- Evade Mastery (AG <= 3)
- I wish I could say Shadow Mastery deserves a formal mention.

EDIT: I may have been a bit overzealous in saying that armored evasion is incredibly useless for soft/rigid AGs but I certainly wouldn't train in it personally unless I had 0 ranks in hide.

I think he just meant that he's going to unlearn it and get his cman points back.

And up until I started hunting OTF I would have agreed that shadow mastery is pointless. I had zero ranks of it when I started there, but quickly went up to 5 ranks. The RT reduction is pretty much a necessity for me.

[DaCapn]

I think he just meant that he's going to unlearn it and get his cman points back.

And up until I started hunting OTF I would have agreed that shadow mastery is pointless. I had zero ranks of it when I started there, but quickly went up to 5 ranks. The RT reduction is pretty much a necessity for me.

Yeah, I'm mastered in smastery. It's just a bit silly that the most expensive cman in the game to train in with its huge cooldown penalty really only works to mitigate a lack of patience.

[Endlin]

Yeah, I'm mastered in smastery. It's just a bit silly that the most expensive cman in the game to train in with its huge cooldown penalty really only works to mitigate a lack of patience.

Heh... Agreed.

[DoctorUnne]

One other thing to consider is the AvD vs MBP is usually 10-12 higher than it is in hauberk. It's a factor that is often overlooked and a much bigger factor than the difference in DS.

However I still come down on the side of MBP if you're not casting. I think MBP has become an extremely attractive armor choice given the recent disclosure on manuever rolls and release of armor evasion.

[Gibreficul]

I'll be casting in MBP as a rogue in 67 armor ranks. MBP is the best! That is all.