Open vs. Sniping

[cakewitharse]

My rogue archer is 45 and is an open archer. For the first 30 or so levels, I ran him as a sniper with surge and smas, but around 40 did a fixskill into open, so that I could pick.

Now, I'm not sure that I care enough about 3x disarm/pick as opposed to 2x. If I were to drop down from 3x to 2x in picking skills, it would give me quite a few points. I'm debating between staying in brig and going back to a stalking and hiding build, staying in brig with 3x dodging, or going for 80 ranks in Armor right away for MBP, possibly to full plate in the future. Also, Armor is at 35 ranks because I'm stupid and was originally planning to add spells to the 3x picking.

Does anyone find that one (open vs. sniping) truly shines above the other?

Current skills:


Archer (at level 45), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 194 94
Ranged Weapons.....................| 194 94
Ambush.............................| 194 94
Physical Fitness...................| 90 20
Dodging............................| 194 94
Arcane Symbols.....................| 20 4
Magic Item Use.....................| 20 4
Harness Power......................| 15 3
Disarming Traps....................| 238 138
Picking Locks......................| 238 138
Perception.........................| 194 94
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 50 10
Training Points: 0 Phy 10 Mnt (24 Mnt converted to Phy)

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Garrote garrote 5
Specialization I wspec1 4
Combat Mobility mobility 1
Combat Toughness toughness 1
Surge of Strength surge 5

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 3

I'm looking for any critique and guidance possible. Should I fixskill him into a sniper or push armor? Is 3x dodging even worth it? Is the old "3x in perception & ambushing" still true - should I drop ambush to 1x? Should I drop CMAN to 1x, since I was really only using garrote in case of disarming - I don't truly use it. I can't think of any CMAN I'd use except toughness, which is why I started that (aside from smas, and that's if I got back to a sniping build).

Thanks.

[Kitsun]

I thought a triple hiding rogue sniper was the most awesome thing from Blighted to Maaghara's Tower. It only fell apart for me in OTF. It was a pretty cool experience to see all the random creature actions when they believe no one is in the room.

I would probably just 2x perception and ambush. That gives the most AS benefit to the ranged equation. I'd rather put the points into spells and nab 403/404 if you're going to keep picking.

[cakewitharse]

I would probably just 2x perception and ambush. That gives the most AS benefit to the ranged equation. I'd rather put the points into spells and nab 403/404 if you're going to keep picking.
So continue the same 2x Perc/Ambush, no matter which build I go to? Or is this suggesting to drop the CMAN as well?

[DoctorUnne]

Pick up the second rank of combat mobility. You will never have to worry about being knocked over again unless you're stunned.

[Kitsun]

Oh wow, I didn't even notice all those ranks in CM.

I'm going on memory here but my training used to be:
Armor ranks to fit into torso chain
2x Ranged
CM enough for a couple ranks of Surge and max Shadow Mastery. It was a max of 1x and I toned it down after I had enough points for the above two.
3x Pick/Disarm
2x Ambush/Perception
3x Hide/stalk
1x PT
2x Dodge
Some climb/swim training
Crap ton of spells depending on the level

I don't see CM worth doubling as an archer. Heavier armor is really awesome and well worth it but you can now also use Armor Evasion or Stealth which might just make the sniper build even better at staying hidden while sniping.

[cakewitharse]

When you say "torso chain," I think of chainmail. Are you saying the 10 ranks are worth it? Like... worth it to stop armor training and sit there? I would have thought augmented chain or something.

[cakewitharse]

If I'm right about my above post, this is what I'm looking at:

Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 130 35 40 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Combat Maneuvers...................| 194 94 47 68 days, 5 hours, 43 minutes
Ranged Weapons.....................| 194 94 94
Ambush.............................| 194 94 94
Physical Fitness...................| 90 20 20
Dodging............................| 194 94 94
Arcane Symbols.....................| 20 4 4
Magic Item Use.....................| 20 4 4
Harness Power......................| 15 3 2 7 hours, 30 minutes
Disarming Traps....................| 238 138 141 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Picking Locks......................| 239 139 141 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Stalking and Hiding................| 20 4 141 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Perception.........................| 194 94 94
Climbing...........................| 105 25 25
Swimming...........................| 50 10 20 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
The 47 ranks of CMAN will give me full SMAS, 1 rank of mobility, and 2 ranks of Surge (1 pending rank).

Thoughts?

[Endlin]

Unless you're going heavy on spells why do you feel like you need to choose between open archery and sniping? You can easily do both.

And you need to be 1x PF, 20 ranks as a square is bad mmkay.

1x PF
1x CM
2x dodge
2x ranged
2x perception
2x stalk/hide
3x disarm
3x picking

That should be pretty doable.

As an aside... My personal opinion is that 3x pick/disarm is overkill. Especially at earlier trains. 2.5x is probably the sweet spot.

But some people like to be super pickers so.. If that's your thing stick with it. Either way you're going to need lores eventually though.

[cakewitharse]

Upping PF to 1x requires a substantial drop in something else. I'm able to do it by sticking w/ brig (until I finish CMAN SURGE), then jumping to chain if I wanna do that. I think brig is fine for a few levels, since I'll be hiding most of the time, anyhow.

Killing my MIU and taking swimming down to 10, when added to the Armor change, do the trick.

I guess that puts me in the market for a fixskills. :(

[Endlin]

Nothing is going to break if you aren't exactly 3x picking/disarm for a while... Skip some for a bit and get other things caught up.

[waywardgs]

I dropped picking entirely and went 3x dodge and learned up to 411 for ewave and the convenience of eblading my own arrows because at around 70 I felt I was unable to pick a lot of my own boxes with about 2.3x in picking/disarming anyway. I've only died hunting once since I made the switch. I'm 2x hiding and really only hide against critters that can cast, otherwise I don't bother because I'm basically untouchable DS-wise and kill very quickly. 3sec eyeshots from aimed or hiding with a composite bow, btw. Also, I just wear doubles.

[kookiegod]

This is my open rogue archer build...3x dodge, mbp, enough MIU/AS to use scrolls and other magic toys without fail and good durations, 2x pick. All odd skills are various enhansives.

I really don't see the point in ambush yet, lot of points for little benefit. I'll probably pick it up later once I get into plate training for armor/armor skill (probably won't go past 1/2 plate with my camo breastplate and enhansive greaves).

I'm right around your level, I don't get hit, and with haste imbeds (thanks Sharnath!!!!!!!!!!!!!) nailing 2s aimed crossbow shots, I finish a hunt in pyros in under 5 minutes.

3x dodge and the armor, I really don't get hit often, and if i do its minimal.

Doing stunman cause I refuse to do it in the guild, and after will pick up evade mastery.

~Paul



(at level 44), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 192 92
Shield Use.........................| 15 3
Combat Maneuvers...................| 146 46
Ranged Weapons.....................| 196 96
Physical Fitness...................| 169 69
Dodging............................| 241 141
Arcane Symbols.....................| 120 30
Magic Item Use.....................| 120 30
Harness Power......................| 131 35
Elemental Mana Control.............| 10 2
Disarming Traps....................| 192 92
Picking Locks......................| 192 92
Perception.........................| 192 92
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 90 20
Training Points: 0 Phy 19 Mnt

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Stun Maneuvers stunman 2
Specialization I wspec1 5
Combat Mobility mobility 1


You are a Master of Sweep.
You are a Master of Cheap Shot.
Working on subdue, LFM, and gambits.

Master of CoL (considering seriously going to sunfist, as my archer ranger is really loving it)

[Gan]

This was my rogue at 89. I'm not currently active in the game now else I'd give you a snapshot of him at 91.

I've been through open archery, sword and board, and hiding archery and I always enjoyed hiding archery the most.

-My two cents.


Ganalon (at level 89), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 221 121
Ranged Weapons.....................| 282 182
Ambush.............................| 236 136
Physical Fitness...................| 190 90
Dodging............................| 280 180
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Magic Item Use.....................| 66 14
Harness Power......................| 120 30
Disarming Traps....................| 341 241
Picking Locks......................| 341 241
Stalking and Hiding................| 340 240
Perception.........................| 329 229
Climbing...........................| 130 35
Swimming...........................| 130 35
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10
_______________________________________
Ganalon, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Dirtkick dirtkick 3
Specialization I wspec1 3
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 5
Cutthroat cutthroat 3
Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 8
________________________________________
>gld
You are Guild Master of the Rogue Guild.
You currently have 266 ranks out of a possible 372 for your training.
You are a Master of Sweep.

You have 9 ranks in the Subdue skill.

You are a Master of Stun Maneuvers.

You have 35 ranks in the Lock Mastery skill.

You have 39 ranks in the Cheap Shot skill.

You are a Master of Rogue Gambits.

__________________________________
Name: Ganalon O'Grady Race: Human Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 44 Expr: 6449657 Level: 89
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 83 (21) ... 83 (21)
Constitution (CON): 73 (11) ... 49 (0)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Agility (AGI): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Discipline (DIS): 95 (22) ... 95 (22)
Aura (AUR): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Logic (LOG): 95 (27) ... 95 (27)
Intuition (INT): 86 (23) ... 86 (23)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Influence (INF): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Mana: 100
(Stats set for max TP's)

[Endlin]

I thought a triple hiding rogue sniper was the most awesome thing from Blighted to Maaghara's Tower. It only fell apart for me in OTF.

I'm curious why it didn't work for you in OTF?

[Gan]

War Griffins (insanely perceptive)

[Endlin]

War Griffins (insanely perceptive)

Yeah... I know that. I just don't see how that ruins hiding as a hunting strategy there.

[Gan]

It didnt ruin my strategy. Damn sure made it challenging. And in some cases made for a very quick/dead trip.

Griffin screech sucks.

Sneaking into a room which has been webbed also sucks.

[Endlin]

Yeah... It's exactly what I do. Screeches suck, webs suck. But I find that between keeping shadowmastery up all the time, and doing careful things like not running through rooms, and taking the time to peer hiding works pretty darn well in OTF.

Which is why I was curious about them having a different experience.

[Gan]

Yea, it will change the aspect of a 'quick' hunt and trying to tank your way through the market road.

Sneaking requires smastery up, room peering, selective targeting and in some cases waiting for the Ithzir groups to break up and following the ones you want to take out.

[Endlin]

Yea, it will change the aspect of a 'quick' hunt and trying to tank your way through the market road.

Sneaking requires smastery up, room peering, selective targeting and in some cases waiting for the Ithzir groups to break up and following the ones you want to take out.

Heh... Yeah. It certainly isn't the fastest way to do it.

But I survive more often than not, so that's okay with me.

[Gan]

I might actually reactivate my subscription so I can hunt OTF again. I miss hunting my rogue.