Iraq aftermath

[Back]

Where are those weapons of mass destruction? Tony Blair dosen't know. George Bush dosen't know. The saudi base is closed, so at least that was accomplished. Saddam is still loose. Isreal and Palastine are no where near peace. Gas prices have gone way up.

Halliburton, which Dick Cheney is an ex-board director, made out pretty nice though. I'm not in the least bit suprised.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56429-2003Aug27.html

[imported_Kranar]

George Bush thought this was going to be a simple piece of cake mission where he goes, "shock and awes" his population, does a nice photoshoot flying to a carrier, and then the Iraqi people would dance and sing welcoming the liberators.

In one year time, just like with Afghanistan, people will forget about it and it will be a thing of the past.

[Back]

In one year time, just like with Afghanistan, people will forget about it and it will be a thing of the past.

Americans will. Not so sure about the rest of the world.

[theotherjohn]

It will last longer than one year. I have friends still in the Balkans

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by Backlash
Isreal and Palastine are no where near peace.

They were such peace loving people before that evil Dubya showed up too!

Everything else i can agree with though.

[Betheny]

A GS friend of mine is being deployed to Iraq pretty much the moment he gets out of boot camp.

Over? No. Worthwhile? I don't know. If I lost a friend to this war, I might lose my mind. I guess until then, since it hasn't really affected me personally, I should just keep my yap shut.

[StrayRogue]

The iraqis will not forget a pretty much unprovoked attack, for seemingly, no reason. I assure you.

[Warriorbird]

Everyone all defending it before. Now maybe they'll release it'll basically be open season on lone US soldiers for the next 5 years.

[Tendarian]

I still think it was the right thing to do. Saddam was a bad bad man and that he doesnt have the power to kill so many people now is a good thing. Its too bad our intelligence on the wmd's was so cruddy but personally the ends justify the means.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Now maybe they'll release it'll basically be open season on lone US soldiers for the next 5 years. >>

Hey, that's fine. Just remember what the Commander in Chief said:

"Bring it on!"

Spoken like a true intelligent leader of a first world nation.

[Ravenstorm]

Mark Twain on war:


"An inglorious peace is better than a dishonorable war."

"Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out...and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel. ..And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man"--with his mouth."

"Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception."

"To be a patriot, one had to say, and keep on saying, " Our country, right or wrong," and urge on the little war. Have you not perceived that that phrase is an insult to the nation."


It's fascinating how his comments apply just as well today as they did back in his day. I wonder what he'd be saying now.

Raven

[Tsa`ah]

I've always admired his blunt honesty.

It's a shame that our educational systems want to phase his legacy out of our developing youth.

[Back]

Where are all the PRO_WAR KILLEM idiots?

Raven always makes great posts. My Grandpa would be proud of that quote. Here is another, more contemporary quote, that suits...

We have become a Nazi monster in the eyes of the whole world?a nation of bullies and bastards who would rather kill than live peacefully. We are not just Whores for power and oil, but killer whores with hate and fear in our hearts. We are human scum, and that is how history will judge us... No redeeming social value. Just whores. Get out of our way or we'll kill you.

Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands. Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush?

They are the same ones who wanted Muhammad Ali locked up for refusing to kill gooks. They speak for all that is cruel and stupid and vicious in the American character. They are the racists and hate mongers among us?they are the Klu Klux Klan. I piss down the throats of those Nazis.

And I am too old to worry about whether they like it or not. Fuck them.

- Hunter S. Thompson

From Adbusters Magazine, July, 2002

[Edited to include the publication on 9-1-2003 by Backlash]

[Edited on 9-1-2003 by Backlash]

[Back]

Talking about, nuclear war. Talking about, nuclear war.
Talking about, nuclear war. Talking about, nuclear war.

If they push that button...

Your ass gotta go.

Flash you,

So high in the sky.

You can kiss your ass goodbye,

If they push that button..."

- Sun Ra And His Arkestra

From Adbusters - Live Without Dead Time CD. Maybe May issue of Adbusters.

[Edited on 9-1-2003 by Backlash]

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by Backlash
Where are all the PRO_WAR KILLEM idiots?
[i]Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands.

What about all the innocent people Saddam was killing or is that just propaganda? If we hadnt gone in there more innocent people would have died,tell me im wrong.

[edge]

Yer not wrong. But by letting them die France was making lots of money so it was ok. Darn it. France got 100k per person killed over there! No wonder they didn't want us to go in.

They just made up all those people that was tortured and all those mass graves the keep finding. It's ok, they was infidels!

[Back]

Originally posted by edge
Yer not wrong. But by letting them die France was making lots of money so it was ok. Darn it. France got 100k per person killed over there! No wonder they didn't want us to go in.

They just made up all those people that was tortured and all those mass graves the keep finding. It's ok, they was infidels!

Stick with dirt bikes, dude. Math maybe. Economics? Possibly...

Don't believe everything you read.

[imported_Kranar]

<< What about all the innocent people Saddam was killing or is that just propaganda? >>

I can't believe how true it is, some people just can't grasp this concept that you can hold two different ideas about something simultaneously.

Seems like some people think that being against the war means being pro-Saddam, and being for the war means being pro-American.

It's really not that hard to be against Saddam, and still be against the war. It involves this rather complex idea that just because you can't solve a problem, doesn't mean you can throw bombs at it and hope it will fix itself.

Check up on some history... you'd be surprised how many DEMOCRACIES the U.S. has overthrown, how many dictatorships the U.S. has instituted, and done all this without even having to send in one single troop or launch one single bomb.

[Edited on 9-1-2003 by Kranar]

[edge]

So you are saying that France had nothing to gain by letting Saddam stay in power and kill his own people? I think you need to get a clue if you believe that.

[Back]

Originally posted by edge
So you are saying that France had nothing to gain by letting Saddam stay in power and kill his own people? I think you need to get a clue if you believe that.

Economics.. no. Stick with dirt bikes. Forget the math too.

[edge]

Aah. Resorting to insults..... hehe.

[imported_Kranar]

<< So you are saying that France had nothing to gain by letting Saddam stay in power and kill his own people? >>

Saddam STAYED in power for 20 years because the U.S. was gaining economically from him.

When Saddam was gasing the Kurds, Donald Rumsfeld (Yes, the guy who is right now Secretary of Defense) visited Iraq and met with the Saddam and all was good and lovely.

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< What about all the innocent people Saddam was killing or is that just propaganda? >>

I can't believe how true it is, some people just can't grasp this concept that you can hold two different ideas about something simultaneously.

Seems like some people think that being against the war means being pro-Saddam, and being for the war means being pro-American.


No you didnt read the quote i attached apparently. He was quoting Thompson and they were talking about the innocent blood lost in the war. I was saying if there was no war more innocent blood would have been shed.

Do you honestly believe more sanctions on iraq would have stopped Saddam from killing people? Or what other ways do you suggest that the US should have done to stop it?

[Back]

Actually it was advice, not an insult. I can be a little cold in this medium.

[Edited on 9-1-2003 by Backlash]

[imported_Kranar]

<< Do you honestly believe more sanctions on iraq would have stopped Saddam from killing people? >>

The sanctions were killing the people of Iraq.

If you're going to put sanctions of dictators who oppress their own people, start with China, a country that's of all things... COMMUNIST. But if sanctions aren't going to work, like you suggest, then heck, start bombing them like you did Iraq.

Oh... wait... that would totally RUIN the U.S. economy.

Nevermind.

[Tendarian]

That sounds nice but it didnt answer the question. What sort of things should the US have done to Iraq or Saddam to stop him killing his own people that arnt going to war or dropping bombs?

[Back]

Oh... wait... that would totally RUIN the U.S. economy.

No more Dolce & Gabbana? Fuck no!

[Betheny]

Forgive me if this has already been posted, as I'm too apathetic about politics to read this thread.

http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Funny.

[Back]

These Weapons of Mass Destruction cannot be displayed



The weapons you are looking for are currently unavailable. The country might be experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your weapons inspectors mandate.

[imported_Kranar]

<< What sort of things should the US have done to Iraq or Saddam to stop him killing his own people that arnt going to war or dropping bombs? >>

Organize and support strategic coup. It's what the U.S. has historically done when it wants to institute a dictatorship in other countries.

Unfortunately, when the U.S. did call on the people of Iraq to form a coup against Saddam back in 1990, the U.S. ditched them afterwards and infact even turned a blind eye to them when the Gulf War was over. Well the result was that Saddam killed the rebels, and it's the reason why the Kurds don't trust the U.S.

It's the reason why most of Iraq doesn't trust the U.S.

[Edited on 9-1-2003 by Kranar]

[Back]

It's the reason why most of Iraq doesn't trust the U.S.

Its teh reason most of the world dosen't trust us.

[Tendarian]

Ok so Dubya couldnt have done that. Is there anything he could have done short of war to stop the killing?

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Tendarian
Ok so Dubya couldnt have done that. Is there anything he could have done short of war to stop the killing?

Change the scope of the War.

We went in with hell's fury and a massive army. There isn't a member of the armed forces that would disagree that we did not require that amount of manpower.

Lose the media.

The media played, and willingly, into the propaganda machine. Out of arrogance and ignorance our leaders and military heads blew sand up our asses with "Shock and Awe". A few big explosions, footage of an armored brigade, some para troopers and it's all over. We told them when, where, what, and how. Now we're still losing troops to snipers. I do seem to recall a thread on the old boards where Sintik mentioned civilians and snipers making life hell.

Feel good to be right Sintik? Baring the casualties of course.

I do also recall threads on the old board where many of us said this whole WMD thing was just a stunt. Sad that we're still losing lives over a propaganda stunt.

I still hold that a limited air strike as coverage for a small-armed force would have done a better job. We could have got nearly everyone at the head of the Bathist party and been done with it.

Planning and sincerity:

Had our leaders better planed this whole thing, had our leaders formed an agreement with countries like France, Germany and other world powers, had our leaders gathered together some supporters from within Iraq whom were capable of running the country, none of this would be happening today.

We were lied to. We were hand fed propaganda and we swallowed it with a smile. Now several months later were are literally stuck on second base and still losing troops.

Welcome to the Vietnam of the new millennium.

[Edited on 9-2-2003 by Tsa`ah]

[Betheny]

Tsa'ah, you're too smart, get to the insults and swearing and I'll read your posts.

[Tsa`ah]

:P

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Kranar
The sanctions were killing the people of Iraq.

If you're going to put sanctions of dictators who oppress their own people, start with China, a country that's of all things... COMMUNIST. But if sanctions aren't going to work, like you suggest, then heck, start bombing them like you did Iraq.

Oh... wait... that would totally RUIN the U.S. economy.

Nevermind.

Hell yeah nevermind.

I know you are not trying to say there exists a single country in the world that would willingly devestate their economy when another option is to be found.