Halfling Rogue Help

[f3hdp]

Like a lot of posts I have read recently i;ve been gone from Gemstone for a while and looking to make a come back.

I would like to make a Halfling rogue that uses two daggers (or shortswords like some suggested) that can still pick when hunting gets frustrating.
Planning on hiding and hamstringer what I can and then going for the eyes like most have suggested.

I've been playing with stat cruncher and the character spread sheet from Tsoran and this is what I came up with. Looking for suggestions on Stat placement and Training. Based on my Training plan I need 53PTP and 39 MTP to do what I want to do.

Here we go.......

STR 100 (figured that would help considering the -15 bonus)
Con 25
Dex 100
AGL 80
DIS 70
AUR 80
LOG 89
INT 70
WIS 25
INF 21

This was my favorite one that the stat cruncher generated for 53ptp and 39mtp with STR being 100

My Training Plan

1x armor till 35 (What you need for brig right?)
2x OHE
2x TWC
2x CM (alt between 2x 1x each lev)
2x AMB
1x PT (alt between 1x 2x each lev)
2x Dodge (alt between 2x 3x each lev)
2x Disarm
2x Pick
2x Stalk
2x Percep

Along the way work in 20 ranks of climb and swim, 5 ranks of HP for Col and 25 ranks of MIU and Arcane

Thanks in advance for the constructive criticism.

[Farn]

The problem with a dagger-using halfling is that you're too short to immediately ambush eyes. This was my original ideal vision for my halfling rogue as well, but the inability to immediately go for eyes, head or neck and the penalties to sweep were too much. I switched to ranged weapons as well as almost 3xing pick/disarm and toning down hiding to a bit under 2x (used pretty much only for roleplay purposes). I was then able to hunt ridiculously effectively (shooting eyes) and pick all my own boxes, plus boxes a good twenty to thirty levels above me (depending on the critter) when I learned the elemental pick and trap lore spells.

If you're going to stick to the two-daggers approach, I'd say master sweep or cheapshots for kneebash as soon as possible so you can knock down, then poke the thing's brain through its eyes for a quick kill. Kneebash might be your better option, as I believe you won't get any size penalties as you would with sweep (plus, you'll learn the swiftkick cheapshot which can be handy), though more critters resist kneebash than sweep.

2xing pick and disarm will start to give you trouble picking your own boxes after a bit, so stock up on pick- and trap-lore scrolls/magic items to make up for it. It should be easy enough to get a wizard to embed them into some items for you.

[Endlin]

Don't tank wisdom or constitution that badly.

And don't start with a 100 in dexterity or strength. They will both grow fairly quickly as a rogue.

[faloon]

I swing dual shortswords and am a gnome. It is really annoying to not be able to aim eye for the first hit but now that i am in the high 30's I seem to be one shotting most of the time. First Short Sword takes out the leg and then the other random one usually strikes hard enough to kill the mob but below 30 i definatelly was annoyed that i chose a gnome lol.

[Stretch]

I would like to make a Halfling rogue that uses two daggers (or shortswords like some suggested) that can still pick when hunting gets frustrating.
Planning on hiding and hamstringer what I can and then going for the eyes like most have suggested.


For RP reasons, or for the massive DEX boost?

Aside from being unable to one-shot most things (basically doubles duration of your hunt at higher levels, unless you go the e-wave route), the single most frustrating thing will be the massive encumberance penalty. I wouldn't advise it, especially for a square class.




STR 100 (figured that would help considering the -15 bonus)
Con 25
Dex 100
AGL 80
DIS 70
AUR 80
LOG 89
INT 70
WIS 25
INF 21


STR grows reasonably quickly for rogues, and DEX / AGI grow very quickly. Try to get to level 15 or so in the first 30 days when you have multiple skill / stat reallocations available, which will make it somewhat easier to place stats for growth. You will not like having low WIS / CON.

My suggestion would be to put STR, AGI, and DEX no higher than 75-80, if even that high, and pump up WIS, INF, and CON a bit.




1x armor till 35 (What you need for brig right?)
2x OHE
2x TWC
2x CM (alt between 2x 1x each lev)
2x AMB
1x PT (alt between 1x 2x each lev)
2x Dodge (alt between 2x 3x each lev)
2x Disarm
2x Pick
2x Stalk
2x Percep

Along the way work in 20 ranks of climb and swim, 5 ranks of HP for Col and 25 ranks of MIU and Arcane


That looks like an okay build, but 2x CM is pretty aggressive. You will also be unable to pick your own boxes without 403/404 after a certain point if you're only doubling.

[Bumpur]

My thoughts are that you are trying to do too much, with not enough training points. If you became more focused on one thing (hunting for example) and gave up picking and disarm and focused on fighting in the open, I could think up a devastating fighter that would rarely be frustrated hunting.

I'm a very successful two weapon using halfling warrior, and I'd have to say that the race is not a factor at all. People will differ from my thoughts on what to do, but if I were you, I would do something like what I have below.

Again, the aim is to have a devastating fighter that does not need to hide.

STATS
Str 88
Con 79
Dex 75
Agi 75
Dis 60
Aur 90 - gives you 10 spirit for CoL very soon
Log 50
Int 50
Wis 70 - enough so that your TD is not overly penalized
Inf 23 - not sure if rogues use this at all for guild.

This stat gives you pretty close to peak physical effectiveness (close to 100 for physical stats) at around level 50. I am not a fan at all of maximizing stats for cap. Your physical stats suck for a long long time. I think it's important to have fun and be effective during the long journey to cap.

WEAPONS
Forget 2 daggers and forget two short swords. Pitiful weapons, especially if you're not mstriking. What happens if you miss with an ambush and fail to crit? You want to hit the mob as hard as possible (stun, knockdown) and for as much damage as possible. Right off the bat at level 0, you will be using a Falchion / short sword combo (5 RT mainhand, 3 RT offhand), a longsword / longsword combo (4RT mainhand, 4 RT offhand) or a longsword / estoc combo (4 RT mainhand, 4 RT offhand). At level 0, you will be swinging with a 5 RT, and ambushing with a 7 RT. At level 6, your agi/dex bonus rises so that you will have a 6 RT for ambushing. It doesn't get better than this. Even if you dropped down to 2 rapiers, you'll still have a 5 RT for ambushing always. So, 6 RT for ambushing is ideal for the punch it packs. Each of the weapon combos has its own advantages. Falchion/short sword - falchion is the hardest hitting OHE you can get and from a mechanics standpoint of open ambushing legs, has the best chance of knockdown on first shot. Longsword/Longsword - if you train in cman wspec for longsword, it will give you AS bonus in both the primary and offhand. Longsword/estoc - estocs only pierce, so if you aim for the eye and the estoc hits, chances are the mob is dead. This gives you a better chance of critting on the eye than a longsword/longsword combo. Estoc/estoc does not work because you can't cman hamstring with an estoc.


TRAINING will look something like this:
Armor Use - 1x (till 27 ranks for brig, get 1 rank of armored evasion)
Edged Weapon - 2x
Two Weapon Combat - 2x
Combat Man - 2x
Multi Opps - 5 ranks (for open mstrike)
Ambush - 1x (till 40 ranks then stop - this is all you will need for open ambush)
Physical Fitness - 2x
Dodging - 2x
Climbing - 0.5x
Swim - aim for 20 ranks at level 67 (rift)
Perception - 1x (till 40 ranks then stop)
Harness Power - 0.5x
Spell Research - you will average 1 spell every 5 levels, for ewave at level 50 if you use my training plan above.

STRATEGY
So how do you kill stuff? You won't be able to open ambush head or eyes outright, so you'll need to start with legs. With any of the hard hitting weapon combos above, open ambush legs should do the trick. Cman hamstring will be another effective option. Sweep and kneebash will be 3rd and fourth options. At level 50, you will have ewave on top of all this. After that, go for the head or the eyes. Keep in mind that when swinging 2 heavier weapons, attrition is also a very viable way to kill stuff when they're lying down, even if you miss.

CMANS: at level 50, you will have 104 points to play with. You definitely want to max out evade mastery , feint, and hamstring, which will take up a total of 81 points, leaving you 23 points to play with. I would then spread that amongst combat toughness (first rank gives you 15 more hp!), specialization (works best for boosting AS of 2 longswords), mobility, and surge of strength.

evade mastery rank 3 - automatic extra 15% evade!
Feint rank 5 – important for stancing down mobs
hamstring rank 5 – important for knockdown

Let me know if you have any more questions.

[f3hdp]

I guess I am just overthinking everything. I should be playing by now. Few more questions and I'll throw it all together and get into the lands. What does each stat govern of help with. Mainly Log, Int, Wis. Also how many ranks of MIU, AS, Climb, Swim, and HP (for col) does one need?

Still seeing myself as a Halfling rogue that hides in the shadows with a couple of butter knives hamstringing enemies and then taking their eyes out with a rusty spoon

[DoctorUnne]

Log - How much exp you can hold and how fast you absorb it
Int - Not much for a rogue that I know of, I think it plays a role in dodging maneuvers
Wis - Bonus is added to TD
Aura - Determines max spirit points. If you're CoL you want at least 75 here so you have 8 max SP and can have swords and shields drop without taking a severe AS penalty
Dis - Will affect how well you perform stun maneuvers
Str - AS, encumbrance
Con - HP recovery, stamina, natural crit padding
Agi - DS, combines with Dex for RT reduction
Dex - Helps with lock picking I think? Combines with Agi for RT reduction
Inf - Not much, prices you get at NPC stores but not a big difference

Some stats will become more important as you get to a higher level, for example once you start getting killed by CS spells you will wish your wisdom was 100.

MIU - I'd shoot for 20 ranks so you can use 120 imbeds. This should also allow you to use haste and ewave imbeds with no failure and get a decent duration boost

AS - I think 24 ranks so you can disarm scarabs, at least until your disarm training is sufficient? I could be wrong though, not a locksmith. Also useful for scrolls you come across but I prefer using imbeds.

HP - I used to have 7 ranks which I found was enough to keep up striking, smiting, warding, defending and deflection continuously without slowly losing mana. I then went up to 14 ranks which is nice because I pulse 9 mana off a node, which means I can throw up all those signs in one pulse after being at zero mana, which I am frequently because of...

SMC - I would strongly recommend getting this eventually if you don't plan on learning spells so you can send mana for them. It's a lot easier to ask for spells from others when you can replace the mana they spend on you. I find SMC more useful than EMC mainly because I have a pocket wizard but also I have a lot more problems with spiritual CS spells which means I'm constantly looking for blues. It also lets you send to rangers which is good for mobility. If you do decide to get some SMC I would recommend adding more ranks of HP so you can send a non-trivial amount of mana.

Climbing - 30 ranks is good enough I think for every area up to 70+. Then go up to 50 which should be good everywhere.

Swimming - 30 is good enough for the rift, will probably want 50 for Nelemar but again take your time. Most areas you can hunt with 10-20 climbing and 0 swimming.

[f3hdp]

Thanks all for the help, I'm fine with my training plan now, still being picky about my stats. Tell me what you think about this one.

STR 87
CON 68
DEX 100
AGL 80
DIS 70
AUR 90
LOG 21
INT 32
WIS 92
INF 20

I want to be able to hunt without getting decapitated every time out, yet I want to be able to sit on my butt and pick something other than my nose as well.

[Endlin]

Thanks all for the help, I'm fine with my training plan now, still being picky about my stats. Tell me what you think about this one.

STR 87
CON 68
DEX 100
AGL 80
DIS 70
AUR 90
LOG 21
INT 32
WIS 92
INF 20

I want to be able to hunt without getting decapitated every time out, yet I want to be able to sit on my butt and pick something other than my nose as well.

Drop strength and wisdom by 10-15 and put it all into logic. Drop dexterity by 20-25 and put that into logic too. Drop Aura by 10 too, put it... I dunno somewhere. But you don't need to start it at 90.

I wouldn't be thrilled with tanking intuition that badly either...

[f3hdp]

Endlin, or anyone else what is your take on placing stats to maximize at cap? Seen people pro and people con on that? I might just have to find a happy medium and go from there. Just worried if I go for cap I'll get too frustrated and not want to play

[Farn]

It's tempting to start out your favorite stats high, but you'll likely be hating yourself for it later. While I'm not a big stat cruncher and tend to go with what I feel makes sense for my character rather than what's mechanically most effective, I also adjust for growth, though I don't go for the ultimate maximization "how many 100s can I possibly get" build.

Starting with a dexterity of 100 is a pretty wasteful move. As a halfling rogue, that's going to be growing pretty dang quick, so you can afford to start it quite a bit lower. Besides, you get a substantial boost to the dexterity bonus as a halfling, so you won't feel the impact of a lower dexterity as badly anyway.

All that said, I've always thought it was a bit loony how much people go nuts over numbers just to add a few more points to their d100. Don't worry about it and it won't bother you - or at least, that philosophy works for me. Other people love numbers and maximization. I hated the World of Warcraft talents that would add a whopping 1% per point to the chance of something occurring. I could never tell the difference, even after getting the smashing 5% total addition after maxing the talent.

[Endlin]

Endlin, or anyone else what is your take on placing stats to maximize at cap? Seen people pro and people con on that? I might just have to find a happy medium and go from there. Just worried if I go for cap I'll get too frustrated and not want to play

In all likelihood, you won't play to cap. So I wouldn't set your stats for maximum growth.

That being said... You still don't want to make your prime stats so high that they don't have room to grow at all. You were tanking things to the point that even if you DID play to cap... They'd never get above 60, which is pretty ugly.

My advice before will allow you some room for growth without completely crippling you early on. And those numbers were way above what you'd be placing for optimization at cap.

[DoctorUnne]

I'd recommend placing them for max growth. I never found myself to be hamstrung along the way in training and I'll save myself 30 million on a fixstat potion. Most people who do cap and don't place their stats for growth end up buying one.

[f3hdp]

Two problems I have with placing stats for cap is the oldest I have ever been with a character is 33 and it doesn't let me do my training plan. Big Problem is I really don't want to change my training plan :( If you had to have two low stats what would you recamend? Inf for sure, that really doesn't play in to my character. I was thinking con as a possibility. <shrugs> Another stupid question, if you reactivate an account that you havn't played in years will it just be the characters and their stats or everything that you left on them?

[Fallen]

I would say place stats for short-term growth that will basically allow you to be maximized at 50-60. As others have mentioned, few cap. It takes a massive amount of hours to get there, and while placing your stats to peak near cap is nice, you can just buy/earn a fixstat potion and fix them yourself. There isn't any need to cripple yourself to allow for stat growth, but you do want to have SOME growth. Dont put anything at 100 as a rule. Just silly.

Endlin offered some good advice on your stats here: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=1044585&postcount=10

Tanking CON or STR as a square, and especially as a halfling would be a terrible idea. Don't do it.

[f3hdp]

If you 1x CM, 1x PT, and 2x dodge when you get some extra pts where would they best be spent between the 3?

[Endlin]

That... Is up to your preferences really. If you are going for an evasion build I'd put them into dodge. If you are planning on wearing plate, I'd put them into PF and armor use.

If you are swinging a weapon, as opposed to using ranged, you can never go wrong with 2x CM either.

Hell my rogue is ranged and I was 2x CM for a long time. Just personal preference really. But unless you're swinging a sword, dodge or PF are probably better investments.

Just start to try and understand as long as you've got the basics, what you do with the rest of your points is really about what you want your rogue to do.

Edit: Also keep in mind nothing is forever in GSIV. You can always switch things up a bit. Once you understand the basics... Stop worrying about what everyone says is the best thing to do, and try things out until you've got a rogue you enjoy playing.