Damage/Redux.

[Stunseed]

I know it's late. That being said...

A mastodonic leopard claws at you!
AS: +275 vs DS: +160 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +92 = +214
... and hits for 6 points of damage!
Quick slash to your upper right arm!
Just a nick

That's in full plate. 6 damage is enough to give a minor?

[Danical]

Damage Reduction (which technically isn't redux as most people know it in GS3) reduces both crit damage and raw damage instead of simply the DF of the weapon as it used to in GS3.

What happened is your damage reduced was greater than the crit suppression/inflation.

[DoctorUnne]

Redux reduces the damage needed to give you a wound, but it's still better than having no redux at all. A character with no redux would need 11+ raw damage to take a rank 1 in full plate. Depending on your redux, you may need 13 or 14 raw damage using the same damage factor, but because of your redux the actual damage you receive will be less. So it will appear that your crit divisor is artificially lower but you're still better off. It's kind of complicated...

[Stunseed]

< Depending on your redux, you may need 13 or 14 raw damage using the same damage factor, but because of your redux the actual damage you receive will be less. >

Completely understandable, but at 14 raw damage, even going halfsies would lead to 7 damage. I know the character's redux isn't THAT great, but it just seems odd, is all.

[DoctorUnne]

Not to mention the crit itself is giving 3 damage as well, so the total damage before redux would be whatever the raw damage is plus 3.

I agree that the numbers look weird, more because you only took 6 damage than because you took a rank 1 crit. Put aside for a second whether or not that should have happened - it DID happen, which means 3 damage. The raw damage would have to be at least 10.5 to give you a crit even with no redux. That's 13.5 minimum total unreduced damage which would be a minimum 52% redux (assuming you took 6.49 damage rounded to 6).

What level are you? And you're 100% positive it is full plate and no damage padding?

[Jace Solo]

Just full plate? No padding or anything?

[Stunseed]

5x dcp plate.

You carefully inspect your fluted golvern plate.

Your careful inspection of a suit of fluted golvern plate allows you to conclude that it is plate armor that covers the torso, arms, legs, neck, and head. You also notice that it is spiked.

Gracile lines and fluted surfaces lend an air of regal grandeur in golvern flecked with vaalin-embossed rivets. The sallet, though simple in shape with a ridged visor, is etched with an interwoven pattern that captures the flair of the armor's sleek construction and contrasts with a fauld of four lames bearing rows of geometrically aligned keys. Opalescent vaalin slashes the vambraces and greaves and is inlaid in a flourish across the breastplate.

Another ballin' set that I own in Platz. :)

< What level are you? >

Auvreaian (at level 48), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 198 98
Armor Use..........................| 240 140
Combat Maneuvers...................| 198 98
Blunt Weapons......................| 198 98
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 149 49
Physical Fitness...................| 198 98
Dodging............................| 198 98
Arcane Symbols.....................| 2 0
Harness Power......................| 86 19
Spirit Mana Control................| 50 10
Perception.........................| 111 27
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 70 15

[DoctorUnne]

I did the math and I think it's conceivable to get the numbers you did with 55-60% redux. It's a stretch and the stars would have had to align almost perfectly but I think it's possible. Do you have any shots from a weapon so I can calculate your redux? The redux on a given shot can vary +/- 5% or so from your actual redux.

I think as a warrior you could hit that redux by level 48 with 2x PF. It maximizes and plateaus pretty quickly.

[Stunseed]

Raidek swings a fel-hafted vultite war maul at you!
AS: +490 vs DS: +136 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +67 = +457
... and hits for 58 points of damage!
Your right leg is mangled horribly.
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 5 rounds!

There you go.

[Danical]

This is what I have in my notes for "natural" attacks:

CREATURE|ROBES|LEATHER|SCALE|CHAIN|PLATE
Charge|.175|.175|.150|.175|.150
Claw|.225|.200|.200|.175|.175
Viper bite|.225|.200|.200|.175|.175
Charge w/tusk|.350|.325|.315|.300|.285
Bite|.400|.375|.375|.325|.300
Pound|.425|.350|.325|.325|.275

[Jace Solo]

I find bite most disturbing. That's "DF" right? .3 on plate? Strong jaws

[Riltus]

I know it's late. That being said...

A mastodonic leopard claws at you!
AS: +275 vs DS: +160 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +92 = +214
... and hits for 6 points of damage!
Quick slash to your upper right arm!
Just a nick

That's in full plate. 6 damage is enough to give a minor?


The 6 hp result is not possible for this character unless there is damage padding involved. Are you sure the plate is DCP? Is it possible the character is in sunfist and had Sigil of Minor Protection active?

The subsequent hit that you posted (maul attack) also indicates damage padding. A redux factor of .54 is too high for a level 48 character with 320.6 redux points.


Let's assume that this character has a .54 RF. The minimum amount of unreduced raw damage required for a rank 1 crit in plate is 16.4 with a .54 RF.

Now, you need to add the 3 crit damage to this for a total of 19.4 total unreduced raw damage. The redux factor for this hit would, minimally be (6 / 19.4) = .69, which is just not possible.

Mark

[DoctorUnne]

Raidek swings a fel-hafted vultite war maul at you!
AS: +490 vs DS: +136 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +67 = +457
... and hits for 58 points of damage!
Your right leg is mangled horribly.
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 5 rounds!

There you go.

That's 54.4% redux, so potentially consistent with the calculations I was doing.

I think it's more likely though that the redux results get wonky towards low damage levels, which I think is something I heard before. If Dan's table is accurate, then that hit from the mastodon would have been 20 damage without redux, which is more than enough for a rank 1 crit even with the redux. Adding 3 crit damage gives 23 total damage which was reduced to 6. 74% redux on that one shot seems a little farfetched but maybe it was just a big outlier.

[DoctorUnne]

Er yeah I was using 1/3 the redux number to adjust the crit threshhold and not 2/3. I agree it doesn't seem to make sense without damage padding.

[Kithus]

If you need more shots please IM me. I've been wanting to shoot Auv a few dozen times for a while. ;)

[Latrinsorm]

It could be that leopards have natural negative damage weighting, or they have a different claw DF (which is approximately 20,000x more likely). Someone take a wimpy character out there and get whomped!

Way back in the day (~2004?) we brought up situations similar to these on the official boards and were told there was a bug that sometimes caused crit damage to be subtracted from a hit instead of added in the usual way. I am not totally confident that this bug ever actually existed, but if it did it could still, and would go a long way towards explaining this event.

[Stunseed]

A half-elven mugger leaps out of his hiding place!
A half-elven mugger swings a broadsword at you!
AS: +296 vs DS: +207 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +82 = +195
... and hits for 8 points of damage!
Nice shot to the head gouges your cheek!
You are stunned for 2 rounds!

This time wearing 6x half-plate and minor protection. Is it me or is this still looking odd?

[Nuc]

Maybe the crit modifier for ambushing from hiding is the reason?

[Sam]

Maybe the crit modifier for ambushing from hiding is the reason?

It's gotta be that.

[Latrinsorm]

The ambushing crit modifier is just crit weighting, so it can't kick in until a rank one crit rank would have been achieved anyway, and the issue here is that the damage seems too low to have reached that threshold.

In this case, though, the unreduced crit divisor is 9. According to Krakiipedia minor protection is heavy damage padding, which has a very enormous effect on redux calculations. If we pick 10 as the number knocked off, you would have been hit for 18 total reduced damage, which suggests a redux factor of ~.33*, which suggests a reduced crit divisor of 8. Your reduced raw damage was 13, so everything checks out.

*Also worth noting is that the crit to raw damage ratio is very high, which explains why your redux factor measures very low on this hit.

[waywardgs]

A half-elven mugger leaps out of his hiding place!
A half-elven mugger swings a broadsword at you!
AS: +296 vs DS: +207 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +82 = +195
... and hits for 8 points of damage!
Nice shot to the head gouges your cheek!
You are stunned for 2 rounds!

This time wearing 6x half-plate and minor protection. Is it me or is this still looking odd?

A 2 round stun from 8 damage does look odd, but as has been said, the crit factor from a hiding ambush attack is what's causing it here.

edit: Latrin seems to have nailed it.

[Archigeek]

Sometimes you wear stretchy pants, just for fun:

As the destroyer attacks, his black steel claidhmore shifts his strike slightly to the right to take advantage of an opening in Kerl's defenses!
A Vvrael destroyer swings a crackling black steel claidhmore at you!
AS: +469 vs DS: +364 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +100 = +224
... and hits for 17 points of damage!
Banged your right shin.
That'll raise a good welt.
>hurl dest head
With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a perfect haon-hafted ora hatchet into flight.
You throw a perfect haon-hafted ora hatchet at a Vvrael destroyer!
AS: +603 vs DS: +333 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +84 = +380
... and hit for 77 points of damage!
Neck broken.
The Vvrael destroyer twitches several times before dying.
The Vvrael destroyer crumples to the floor motionless.

Your haon-hafted ora hatchet spins rapidly through the air, the blade whooshing audibly with each revolution. As it completes its arc, it reverses direction and lands

solidly in your right hand, ready to throw again.

Roundtime: 4 sec.

No padding fyi.

[Sam]

That makes me even more comfortable with my switch to damage padding.

[Stunseed]

That makes me even more comfortable with my switch to damage padding.

Well, that halfplate is the set from the EG Auction 6x veil-iron +10TD +10 stamina recovery.

The other set I have did turn out to be decently damage padded, so that and minor protection seems pretty hot. Part of me wants to get a set of plate enchanted like a mofo then get a bubble flare certificate.