What Do You Think Is The Number One Reason For Gemstone 4's Population Today?

[Coin]

Is It:

A. The Price?

B. World Of Warcraft?

C. The Economy?

D. Loss Of Interest In Text Games?

E. No Promotional Contracts With Other Big Companies?

F. Starcraft?


PS - Please don't post All of the above. Just pick one for cryin out loud and go with it.




Just kidding about the Starcraft.

[Parkbandit]

I think the lower population is because of the mean, mean, mean GMs that take it upon themselves to kick paying customers out of the game during the Christmas Holidays... and then PERMA-BAN them! Do they not have ANY COMPASION!? It's CHRISTMAS FFS!

They also don't take into account that some people were in vehicle accidents involving a 90 degree hill and a scooter.

[Me]

I think the lower population is because of the mean, mean, mean GMs that take it upon themselves to kick paying customers out of the game during the Christmas Holidays... and then PERMA-BAN them! Do they not have ANY COMPASION!? It's CHRISTMAS FFS!

They also don't take into account that some people were in vehicle accidents involving a 90 degree hill and a scooter.


heh

[AnticorRifling]

I think the population is due to claids being thrown to the ground because deeds are more expensive than claids.

[Calbren]

Lack of advertising and marketing. Either because there is no funds or they don't care (or both).

[Loyrl]

Think it is from the population of stupid people growing and it is making people leave. Just look at the amount of stupid threads that have been popping up lately.

[Cephalopod]

I voted 'price', but I really meant 'you'.

[phantasm]

A better question would be, "Why was the population so large in the past?".

The answers to that question will explain why it is so small today.

[Berylla]

the reason is because Simutronics makes more money off the sale of the system that Gemstone is based on, than the actual game. They're letting Gemstone die a long slow death. GM's don't care, don't put anything into the game and players get tired of being jerked around eventually.

Gemstone isn't a money maker for Simu. End of story.

[Calbren]

the reason is because Simutronics makes more money off the sale of the system that Gemstone is based on, than the actual game. They're letting Gemstone die a long slow death. GM's don't care, don't put anything into the game and players get tired of being jerked around eventually.

Gemstone isn't a money maker for Simu. End of story.

It has to be or they would have shut it down.

[Atlanteax]

Where is the selection for "absurd mis-management" ?

[ElvenFury]

HEY COIN...

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a1188/a1188_bm.gif

[Celephais]

Jokes on you! I don't brush my teeth!

[phantasm]

So your Coin?

[Celephais]

So your Coin?
I wish I could pull something like that off... but I don't own a scooter.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

My 10 lb neutered dog is giving it to my 80 lb spayed lab right now while I'm in some motel room in the middle of Texas on the way home for Christmas is more interesting than this poll and I've still got 10 hours to drive and not use punctuation

[Stanley Burrell]

lol.

[Drevihyin]

Just running a little poll of my own in hopes that the results will let me sleep better at night.

http://www.apopularitycontest.com/vote.php?ID=9155

[Methais]

It's because of the stupid gay ass nerfs they've made to almost every class. Shit like growing pains but it started before that, that's just when they went nuts with it.

The old 160 level cap probably ran a ton of people off too.

[Celephais]

Admittedly the game got pretty broken as people got to absurd levels. The exp gain formula was based off level, where at a certain point you would absorb all exp in your mind instantly (and even worse at a certain point it would cause a division by zero if they weren't checking for that). The means of gaining exp was also a major issue, with picking/healing being the only two effective/legal means after outgrowing all the hunting grounds.

I don't think they solved the problem correctly, but it was a problem they needed to solve, there are several different ways they could have gone about it but that's what they settled on, and who knows, it could have been worse, what I do know is that I don't think they really understood the mentality of the people playing the game and instead looked at the technical issue (providing content for such an infinite level range).

As it stands right now in gemstone there is a complete void of what I would call 'legends' in the game. There is nothing to aspire to. There is no feeling that you can accomplish anything unique.

This was huge for me when it came to playing GS... as it stands right now being capped, or even 30+ capped wouldn't really set me apart, I'd still just be another person grinding away in one of three zones. Equipment has become bland, I have to attend a pay event, and then win a raffle or auction, there is no excitement in that. The community has become bland, there are a few shining stars but the population is too independant and sparse to make them have any real impact.

These are things I may never have actually accomplished had GS 'stayed the same', but I always could, I could always make my character develop into what I wanted him to be. I feel like his potential for developing into the character I had originally imagined isn't there anymore.

... damn, sorry guys I didn't mean to respond seriously.

[LOL BRIELUS]

probably a combination of all of the above, but mostly that people who played in the 90's and were younger, now all have lives and careers, and don't have 8 hours a day to devote to grind it out in the game.

Also, cyber isn't as popular.

[Drunken Durfin]

now all have lives and careers, and don't have 8 hours a day to devote to grind it out in the game.

This.

[CrystalTears]

probably a combination of all of the above, but mostly that people who played in the 90's and were younger, now all have lives and careers, and don't have 8 hours a day to devote to grind it out in the game.

Also, cyber isn't as popular.
It's more than that. There are plenty of people who played a lot in the 90's, moved on, got lives, and quit GS to play WoW for almost the same amount of time. It isn't the lack of investment in the game as much as the game itself that sucks and does not evolve. Why would you WANT to spend so much time in a game that has nowhere to go once you're capped?

[Atlanteax]

I don't think it was an issue of "not much to do once capped" in GS ... as much as it was lack-luster invasions to keep the 100s engaged/entertained (trying to do a balanced invasion to cover a broad spectrum is half-arsed ... vs one lowbie invasion and then one high-level elsewhere) ... the handling of problem players (we know who they are) with kiddie gloves (because they didn't want to lose the subscription or the MA-ed subscription) which lead to other otherwise loyal players frustrated with the constant BS going on (Assist/Report should have had much harsher/assertive responses) and trying out new pastures (ie WoW) where they were sufficiently entertained to not really consider returning to Gemstone.

[Sean of the Thread]

I would consider playing again if they started another new server. It would take like a $15 hard drive to do it.

[zhelas]

Did the WoW thing for 6 months when the Burning Crusades came out. Capped my toon easily in that time and then what? Raids?(Did that) PvP?(Enjoyed that) Grinding for gear?(Eh) How many times have you done the same instances over and over just to hope and get that one piece of armor or weapon, only to not have it show up? Or have someone Ninja it?

Wasn't what I was looking for so I stopped playing.

Don't get me wrong WoW is a pretty game. I enjoyed seeing what Blizzard created. It was nice playing a game that had development.

Peace

[CrystalTears]

It wasn't really to make a comparison with WoW. It was just an example that time invested isn't really the issue, it's the game in question. Whether it be to play another MUD, or WoW, or Star Wars, or whatever. The problem is that Simu made so many changes to GS that weren't worth staying for.

The assists and warning systems really, really did not win me over. I wouldn't be surprised if that killed the fun for a lot of people who enjoyed policing themselves.

[Calbren]

It wasn't really to make a comparison with WoW. It was just an example that time invested isn't really the issue, it's the game in question. Whether it be to play another MUD, or WoW, or Star Wars, or whatever. The problem is that Simu made so many changes to GS that weren't worth staying for.

The assists and warning systems really, really did not win me over. I wouldn't be surprised if that killed the fun for a lot of people who enjoyed policing themselves.

It's much more enjoyable when the law is made by the characters in the virtual world. The only thing that should be policed is blatant OOC. Leave the rest up to the characters.

I too played WoW for a while. When someone would bring their high level guy and kill one of my low level guys I would login with me and my buddies and gank him continuously. They would bring friends and it turned into an awesome battle.

[Celephais]

GS isn't the only game to lose it's luster, after GS I went onto EQ, I have some fantastic memories of EQ in the Original, Kunark and Velious ages of the game, even some of the next expansions but after velious they did the same thing WoW has been constantly doing, pandering. It was a hell of an accomplishment to get an Epic in the Kunark age ... as a Ranger I needed something from the plane of hate (I think it was), and you had to bring a rather large raid, and it involved zoning into a location that could be camped by mobs ... you could literally wipe because it took someone longer to load into the zone than others... people timed when groups started zoning in based on how fast their computers were.

When I got my epic though it was indeed, epic for my character. That type of experience keeps getting wiped out as games evolve, even if there was an equally tough item to get in wow right now, you'd know that in six months it would be trivialized, at the time I got my epic in EQ there wasn't a thought in my head that "boy this is nice, but will be worthless in 6 weeks".

[Atlanteax]

When I got my epic though it was indeed, epic for my character. That type of experience keeps getting wiped out as games evolve, even if there was an equally tough item to get in wow right now, you'd know that in six months it would be trivialized, at the time I got my epic in EQ there wasn't a thought in my head that "boy this is nice, but will be worthless in 6 weeks".

I'd say that any game that decides to target being a "niche" game where epics are *indeed* epics ... they will have an extremely loyal player-base.

Even Aion (NCSOFT game like EQ) is starting to pander a bit now. =(

[Coin]

My current strategy for when my character gets capped is to create a new one under a different profession and then cap that one as well. And then I'll sell that one when that one gets capped, because I won't need 2 capped characters, and then when I sell that one I will create another character under yet a different profession and then cap that one too.

I will repeat this cycle over and over so that I don't get bored. And in the process I will have made some money. There are 9 different professions at the moment, so it would take years for me to complete the entire cycle. And by the time the cycle is complete, then after years of not using the first profession I had originally capped, I would be more than ready to cap another one and start the cycle all over again.

This is what I believe most people who sit around with capped characters wondering what to do next should do to keep themselves busy in Gemstone.

[Methais]

My current strategy for when my character gets capped is to create a new one under a different profession and then cap that one as well. And then I'll sell that one when that one gets capped, because I won't need 2 capped characters, and then when I sell that one I will create another character under yet a different profession and then cap that one too.

I will repeat this cycle over and over so that I don't get bored. And in the process I will have made some money. There are 9 different professions at the moment, so it would take years for me to complete the entire cycle. And by the time the cycle is complete, then after years of not using the first profession I had originally capped, I would be more than ready to cap another one and start the cycle all over again.

This is what I believe most people who sit around with capped characters wondering what to do next should do to keep themselves busy in Gemstone.

Ever consider McDonald's?

[Soulpieced]

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/5/11/633776648155155965-life.jpg

[Coin]

By the way I am doing my part to help raise the population of GS. Make sure to visit my facebook page at Gemstone Simutronics under people search. Feel free to send me a friend request.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Lack of development and slow development.
The time sinks that are implemented and released that burn people out and turn them off of playing.
Lax enforcement of the no OOC policy.
Contradictory GM decisions.

I think all of these are contributors as to why the population is declining.

[RichardCranium]

Gays with laser beams.

[Methais]

Gays with laser beams.

Enegue was gay?

[zhelas]

This is what I believe most people who sit around with capped characters wondering what to do next should do to keep themselves busy in Gemstone.

Why?

I have a capped character whoopi! What do I do next! Well ... I can hunt Nelemar, OTF, Scatter and a war camp if I am in GoS. But wait the loot system is being over hunted!

Okay well I could start the soul sucking Alchemy.

If you want a life draining experience wait till you do the tedious tasks to learn guild reps. Especially with Alchemy.

PVP is not a great option..Especially at cap. First one to hit the key on their keyboard wins.

I remember when Sylvarraend was a War zone. Pretty much you entered it and it was PvP. The GMs were pissed. Folks were having a blast. There are some posts here on this forum of the battles. Eventually the justice system of illistrim watched Sylvarraend. Ah well.

To bring more players back. We need more developement. 10 plus year old bugs fixed on all professions and mechanics. Lower prices.. Less tedium.

and

The Juggernaut!

Peace

[Coin]

Why?

I have a capped character whoopi! What do I do next! Well ... I can hunt Nelemar, OTF, Scatter and a war camp if I am in GoS. But wait the loot system is being over hunted!

Okay well I could start the soul sucking Alchemy.

If you want a life draining experience wait till you do the tedious tasks to learn guild reps. Especially with Alchemy.

PVP is not a great option..Especially at cap. First one to hit the key on their keyboard wins.

I remember when Sylvarraend was a War zone. Pretty much you entered it and it was PvP. The GMs were pissed. Folks were having a blast. There are some posts here on this forum of the battles. Eventually the justice system of illistrim watched Sylvarraend. Ah well.

To bring more players back. We need more developement. 10 plus year old bugs fixed on all professions and mechanics. Lower prices.. Less tedium.

and

The Juggernaut!

Peace

I'm just saying it is always an option. I'm not going to sit around with a capped character waiting for the game to catch up with me. All video games, all games period, can't keep up with the speed of accomlishment. Unless you are hella slow at accomplishing things. It's just a fact. I can't count how many times I have reached max level in some of the video games with sort of a sad feeling that there isn't much more left to do. So what do I do? I roll up a different character, with completely different abilities than the one I had before, and I do it all over again, only with a completely different experience.

Being capped is an accomplishment, but it's the path to being capped at least in my opinion that's where the true fun is to be found. Along the way to being capped, you will face tough creatures, you will meet many friends, and with an entirely new kind of character you will gain new spells, new items, new abilities that your other character didn't have, you will have a completely new experience.

By the way, I don't use this strategy just for playing Gemstone. I would use this same strategy whether I was playing any other game where you go from start to finish. Which is probably 99% of them. Only with games like Grand Theft Auto and Oblivion and such will you be able to run around and do different things after you have capped your character or completed all the missions. But I have never found the running around and messing around part to be as fun as actually taking the path to conquering the game. That part always seems more fun to me because each time I do it I feel like I accomplished something in the process.

[Coin]

Why?

I have a capped character whoopi! What do I do next! Well ... I can hunt Nelemar, OTF, Scatter and a war camp if I am in GoS. But wait the loot system is being over hunted!

Okay well I could start the soul sucking Alchemy.

If you want a life draining experience wait till you do the tedious tasks to learn guild reps. Especially with Alchemy.

PVP is not a great option..Especially at cap. First one to hit the key on their keyboard wins.

I remember when Sylvarraend was a War zone. Pretty much you entered it and it was PvP. The GMs were pissed. Folks were having a blast. There are some posts here on this forum of the battles. Eventually the justice system of illistrim watched Sylvarraend. Ah well.

To bring more players back. We need more developement. 10 plus year old bugs fixed on all professions and mechanics. Lower prices.. Less tedium.

and

The Juggernaut!

Peace

I think PVP should be completely allowed outside of town in Gemstone 4. I am in completey agreement with you on that. I don't believe people should be allowed to kill eachother in town period, because I believe that the town should be a safe place where people can go when they don't want their head blown off.

But outside of town, in the wilds, I believe anything should go. I do believe that this whole death sting thing should go away, because people can abuse it and cause you a shit load of problems if they are way older than you and they want to mess with you. I'm glad they did away with permadeath, but in order for PVP to be fun but safe at the same time, I think the death sting needs to be eliminated. I don't care if I have a level 20 character and a level 70 character keeps kicking my ass everytime he sees me. What I do care about is if he gives me a death sting that lasts for months because of it, simply because I couldn't take him because it was an unfair match. I'll die, that's fine, but don't fuck over my gaming experience because of it. That's taking things too far.

[Coin]

An example of a company that has successfully figured out a way to promote itself with the current times is Zynga, the creator of Mafia Wars. Mafia Wars was the 2009 Webby Award People's Voice Winner in the Games category. Mafia Wars is available on Facebook, MySpace, Tagged, Sonico, and Yahoo. To my understanding, the game is free, although there may be some way where players have to pay for certain things to get certain benefits. I'm not sure because I've never played it. Mafia Wars has more than 25.9 million monthly active accounts. The point being that Zynga, which started out with a game that had not been marketed yet, figured out a way to promote through some of the most popular online companies out there today, and they are reaping in the benefits like you wouldn't believe.

Their player base is so diverse it's not even funny. I can't tell you how many old ladies have sent me a free shotgun on my facebook page. lol. Or how many little kids have asked me to join their mafia family.

But here's the deal. As fun as a game as mafia wars is, I would bet you hands down that Gemstone 4 is more complex, more in depth, more interactive, and more entertaining.

So if the marketing team at SIMU can figure out how to convince a major popular online company to accept a promotional deal with them, they can reap in the benefits just as easily. If it's pop up pictures that gamers want these days (because I think that's what Mafia Wars uses, I'm not 100% sure though) than I'm sure that pop up pictures can be incorporated into the Wizard, and Stormfront, just as easily.

It can be done. Gemstone 4 can be successfully promoted. Somebody just has to take the initiative and put forth the effort. You reap what you sow.

[Coin]

I should also add that Zynga is responsible for promoting yet another successful game, FarmVille, which has recently become the most popular game application on Facebook. And as far as I know Facebook is the only company that it is currently being marketed too.

But this is what will blow your mind. FarmVille's active userbase was recorded at 72,015,037 active users on December 11, 2009. You read that right, 72 Million active users. And it's a fairly new game.

Now you can't tell me that collecting different looking farm animals beats gaming in the World of Gemstone 4. I'm sorry, I love animals, but give me a break.

If Gemstone 4 was able to tap into even just 1% of the amount of fanbase that compromises Farmville, it would be a MAJOR accomplishment. Just 1 itty bitty percent.

[Drevihyin]

If Gemstone 4 was able to tap into even just 1% of the amount of fanbase that compromises Farmville, it would be a MAJOR accomplishment. Just 1 itty bitty percent.


If you think that the Gemstone IV community can absorb 170,000+ accounts/characters you need to cut back the dosage of whatever drugs you're using. What your proposing would be a totally new organization and it's very doubtful that Simutronics would be able to pull it off. If another company bought out Simutronics or acquired the rights to Gemstone then maybe it could happen.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

and Farmville is free...

[Coin]

If you think that the Gemstone IV community can absorb 170,000+ accounts/characters you need to cut back the dosage of whatever drugs you're using. What your proposing would be a totally new organization and it's very doubtful that Simutronics would be able to pull it off. If another company bought out Simutronics or acquired the rights to Gemstone then maybe it could happen.

lol. I believe it's possible. Not sure if the actual game could handle that many players playing at once though.

But if that number bothers you so much, then make it .1%

[Coin]

In the meantime, someone who is really good at coding programs (I'm talking about a player even, doesn't have to be someone that works or volunteers for SIMU), could create a basic Gemstone 4 page on both facebook and myspace, and then create a program that automatically sends out around 7-9 friend requests per day per every 3 hours or so. Don't make it send more than that though within the 3 hour timeframe, because there is a new security feature on facebook where if you send out more than about 10 friend requests at once, in rapid fashion, than it will give you a warning telling you that you are in danger of being locked out of facebook due to too many requests at once.

The problem would be to find somebody who is good enough at coding to make the program. But I figure, 7-8 friend requests on both myspace on facebook every 3 hours or so leading directly to a page that promotes Gemstone 4's website, and maybe has a few snappy pictures and info and stuff, would come out to about 112 friend requests per day. I have noticed that usually about 70% of the people who you send a friend request to with a page that promotes a game (I have tried it already) will agree to be your friend. It's actually probably around 80-85% but i'm just being safe with that estimate.

So 112 friend requests per day (myspace + facebook included) comes to 40,880 friends per year. Make two pages on facebook/myspace, both related to GS, and use the program to promote both of them, and that comes to 81,760 friends per year. There is currently no limit to the amount of accounts/pages you can create on facebook and/or myspace, so of course one could use their imagination for as far as they wanted to go with it. Just make sure to somehow create a secondary program that posts a message on all of your friend's walls/homepages at least once per day. Why not? Mafia Wars gets away with it. I get like 3 posts on my homepage/wall per day relating to that game. I delete them of course.

[thefarmer]

I get like 3 posts on my homepage/wall per day relating to that game.

So you make multiple accounts to carry on conversations with yourself on facebook too?

Teh interwebs r srs bizness!

[Coin]

On second thought, you wouldn't need a program for it. Just hire 3 people who's sole job is to divide the 112 friend requests/224 friend requests/however many are sent out per day between themselves, and you would get the same result. No program necessary.

[Celephais]

Good thinking about hiring people instead of writing a program, and instead of paying them we could just give them each one capped character a year, seriously that's a sweet deal, sure capped characters sell for around $500, and they would starve to death if that was their sole job, but if they held out and sold the capped character for what it's worth, well, forget going to law school, that'd be where the money's at.

[Coin]

Good thinking about hiring people instead of writing a program, and instead of paying them we could just give them each one capped character a year, seriously that's a sweet deal, sure capped characters sell for around $500, and they would starve to death if that was their sole job, but if they held out and sold the capped character for what it's worth, well, forget going to law school, that'd be where the money's at.

lol. That last post was hinted towards SIMU. Not the players. I doubt any player is that devoted to Gemstone 4 that they would pay 3 other people to promote the game for them. You would have to be the #1 most devoted fan of Gemstone in the World. If there is such a title to be given.

Fact is, no one from SIMU would get in trouble for going behind the scenes and creating pages on facebook/myspace related to Gemstone and if they sent out an enormous amount of friend requests if they did it undercover. In fact I think that's exactly what the Mafia Wars staff does. It can't all be players that harass my page daily with mafia wars requests.

[Sean of the Thread]

http://blog.kjstyle.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/retard.jpg

[Coin]

Just adding this all up:

If SIMU can pay 3 people to set up two different pages each (1 for facebook and 1 for myspace, all relating to Gemstone 4), and the pages can be identicle or slightly different it wouldn't matter, because neither facebook or myspace frown upon having the same exact named pages under people search because it's the same thing as having 100 Bob Johnsons located in New York, New York, but if just 3 people have 2 sites each pumping out 122 friend requests per day, that comes to a total of 732 friend requests per day. Factor out that 85% of the people will accept the requests and you come out with a total of 613 friends per day. 613 friends per day for all 6 pages combined comes out to 223,745 friends per year.

And the beauty of all of this is that it wouldn't take long for Gemstone 4 to see results, because SIMU wouldn't have to change a thing that it's doing at all right now. Because as anyone knows who is familiar with facebook, when you type in any message/comment or update on your profile/wall/photo section/notes/links or any of the other options, it automatically gets sent to all the friends you have on your list. This means that if Simu pays 3 people to set up 6 pages total pumping out those friend requests daily until it reaches that total of 223,745 friends for the year, then one single message relating to the 1 month free trial would reach all 223,745 of those friends in an instant. And I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt that Zynga is currently using this exact same strategy with it's two most popular games.

You send out a message relating to the 1 month free trial to 223,745 people all within a few seconds time, and I guarantee you that you will have some traffic headed your direction.

[Coin]

And there is a cherry on the top for all of this as well if SIMU went ahead with this strategy, because I currently have 400 friends on my publicly viewable page on facebook at the moment, and because of the public view status of my page I receive roughly 3-4 friend requests daily from people who want to join my friends list.

So you figure if we apply the same concept to the 223,745 friends that would be on all 6 pages combined, then all 6 pages would get literally thousands of daily automatic friend requests sent to their pages for doing nothing other than having their pages be available for public viewing. I mean it doesn't get much easier than that.

Before you know it, together with the friend requests being sent out and the friend requests that would be coming in both on a daily basis, it wouldn't take long for the 6 sites to reach the point where the friends would total in the millions. And then each time the SIMU staff wants to send comments/updates on those pages then they would reach millions of people in an instant rather than hundreds of thousands. And it really wouldn't take that long for all of this to become a reality either.

The more pages put up, and the more people pumping out requests, the faster the process would complete itself.

[LOL BRIELUS]

i think the general idea sounds good. Anyone ever bother to send this thread to Simu about advertising on facebook?

[Coin]

i think the general idea sounds good. Anyone ever bother to send this thread to Simu about advertising on facebook?

I basicly have the same exact posts running over at the official board as well.

[Ker_Thwap]

I have to chuckle when someone whose business acumen consists of working the counter at McDonalds starts giving advertising and pricing advice to a company that's been established for several decades.

Has anyone even bothered to track the population over the last few years? I mean properly, accounting for seasonal variance and comparing the appropriate time frames?

Or is the just another "The Sky is Falling" thread because someone is stressed out around the holidays because they spent all their money on drugs and can't afford to feed their kids, support their gaming habit and buy presents?

[Coin]

It would appear to me, at least on the surface, that both Mafia Wars and FarmVille were designed to work almost perfectly for benefiting from myspace and facebook, before they were ever even marketed towards them. Obviously they had their eye on the prize, long before they had ever even sealed the deal.

So whoever created these games, definately knew that facebook and myspace HAD TO BE the kind of companies they marketed to otherwise the games as they are currently designed would be total failures. Luckily they placed their bets right, because it would appear that they ended up getting exactly what they were hoping for.

So either two things happened in this case. Either myspace and facebook both approached Zynga asking it to produce games that would be designed to work well with their applications, or.....Zynga guessed right and had enough foresight to know that both myspace and facebook would sign a conctact with it. It can't be both, so it has to be one or the other.

[Coin]

I have to chuckle when someone who's business acumen consists of working the counter at McDonalds starts giving advertising and pricing advice to a company that's been established for several decades.

Has anyone even bothered to track the population over the last few years? I mean properly, accounting for seasonal variance and comparing the appropriate time frames?

Or is the just another "The Sky is Falling" thread because someone is stressed out around the holidays because they spent all their money on drugs and can't afford to feed their kids, support their gaming habit and buy presents?

You're completely entitled to your opinion of my advice. But one thing I have over you, is that you haven't offered any at all. So either way I look at it, I got you beat.

You can sit back and tell yourself you could offer better advice. But until I see you actually do it, all you are is smoke.

[AnticorRifling]

No advice > ramblings of a retard. Point Ker_Thwap.

[Kithus]

I just wish he'd keep it to one board. Preferably here where he can be properly insulted and its easier to skip over his posts.

[Ker_Thwap]

Oh, you want advice? Take a shower once in a while, get a hair cut, get another job and move out of your mother's basement.

Create a character that isn't universally regarded as a retarded griefer before you ever expect Simutronics to take your advice. Stop with drugs, stop lurking around these boards every minute of the day in the desperate hope that someone will reply to your thread and somehow validate your pathetic life.

Oh, and wash your own laundry you lazy slob, it's bad enough that you're taking up valuable basement space, your mom shouldn't have to clean up after you too.

Glad to help, and you're welcome in advance.

[CrystalTears]

Or is the just another "The Sky is Falling" thread because someone is stressed out around the holidays because they spent all their money on a stupid rogue and can't afford to feed their kids, support their gaming habit and buy presents?
Fixed. :D

Oh sorry, thought Widgets posted this thread. Or did he? :D

[Coin]

Look I'll make this as clear as possible so that some of you who might not be understanding me at the moment will finally get the picture.

FarmVille. FarmVille doesn't have 72,015,037 active users. That's not what it really has. What FarmVille really has is 72,015,037 Facebook Friends.

[CrystalTears]

You're not seriously comparing Farmville to GS are you?

[Coin]

You're not seriously comparing Farmville to GS are you?

WTF?

[ElvenFury]

You're not seriously comparing Farmville to GS are you?

CT, don't be obtuse. Life is all about power, and power is all about having a positive attitude. That's why your life is pathetic, and Coin makes Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have cage matches in his basement for amusement. GET WITH THE PROGRAM.

[CrystalTears]

WTF?
WTF indeed.

[Coin]

CT, don't be obtuse. Life is all about power, and power is all about having a positive attitude. That's why your life is pathetic, and Coin makes Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have cage matches in his basement for amusement. GET WITH THE PROGRAM.

Life is all about power. Life is about experience. Experience leads to knowledge. Knowledge = power.

[4a6c1]

!SCUSE ME COINZ!

I did not see the option for 'Ewok/Paupers'. So I voted WoW.

[Coin]

!SCUSE ME COINZ!

I did not see the option for 'Ewok/Paupers'. So I voted WoW.

Ha. Must have forgot to add that one to the list. :thinking:

[CrystalTears]

Life is all about power. Life is about experience. Experience leads to knowledge. Knowledge = power.
Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. HATE... leads to SUFFERING.

[Coin]

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. HATE... leads to SUFFERING.

lol. Look I don't hate none of yas on here. Not a single one of yas. In fact I have fun chattin with you guys. Believe it or not.

[4a6c1]

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. HATE... leads to SUFFERING.

Reason number 347390.08874 Crystal Tears is goddess of PC.

[CrystalTears]

http://www.bbea.ws/WHOOSH2.gif
lol. Look I don't hate none of yas on here. Not a single one of yas. In fact I have fun chattin with you guys. Believe it or not.

[Celephais]

Wait... Coin, why just hire three full time people to post on facebook? What if you hired seven people (seven is my favorite number), and had them post on facebook, you could more than DOUBLE the friends. Then GS could get back to it's glory, maybe with that many people in game they could implement dragons in gemstone, and everyone playing at once would be needed in order to kill them!

[Ker_Thwap]

An even better idea would be to make dragons a playable race, but only let the really cool people (like you and me) play them. Dragons should just start out about level 200 for the sake of fairness. They should just allow like one new dragon player a year. They should have claws, breath fire, have magical and mental attacks and make them immune to all damage. Just to keep it fun for everyone there should be strict RP guidelines about their behavior: like them being entirely chaotic and disliking contact with mortals, except for the cool mortals of course, and of course they could adopt Gnomes into their families because Gnomes are the equals of dragons for reasons only the dragons can understand in their infinite wisdom.

Simu should really get on board with my idea before the sky falls in on them, I've put a lot of fact based research into this plan and Simu could triple their cash flow from all the fun new people this idea attracts. When I have time I'll post up my entirely original idea about teenage hot vampires being added as a race.

[Cephalopod]

Simu should really get on board with my idea before the sky falls in on them, I've put a lot of fact based research into this plan and Simu could triple their cash flow from all the fun new people this idea attracts. When I have time I'll post up my entirely original idea about teenage hot vampires being added as a race.

Will they sparkle?

Really, though, I think we know the best way Coin can go about all this. (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=22817)

[Ker_Thwap]

Will they sparkle?

Damn skippy.

[Cephalopod]

Damn skippy.

http://i.imgur.com/Viiit.png

[Coin]

But seriously, Facebook does have a great system for marketing things with. And that's what games like FarmVille and Mafia Wars uses to market their games. Whether they are free or not. And as I mentioned before I really do believe that if Gemstone 4 can somehow utilize their request system to promote itself with, than it will have a far more powerful effect than if it doesn't take advantage of their system.

The Facebook request system is what Zynga uses so well. If Zynga can use the system to promote it's games, than so can Gemstone 4. I don't think Gemstone 4 will reach even close to the amount of people that Zynga has reached with it's games (because they are mostly free), but I do believe that Gemstone can reach an enormous amount of people by using the same request system that Zynga did.

The fact that Gemstone 4 costs money I don't think will negate the fact that it could reach far more people than perhaps it has ever been able to reach in it's history. Even with it's days on AOL and when it was free. I don't believe that there was ever an AOL game that was able to tap into over 70,000,000 players like Zynga has been able to do with FarmVille on Facebook.

Someone mentioned before about trying to promote through some of the old magazines or whatever that Gemstone 4 used to promote through. I don't think that will work as well as it would with some of these newer companies like Facebook and Myspace, because of the simple fact that you can reach a huge amount of more people through them with less effort put into the process. The magazine idea should not be counted out though, and it wouldn't hurt to use that as well, but I believe that as with anything that method is slowly becoming obsolete compared to what you can do with online applications these days. Doing both though is better than doing one or the other.

Tsoran had a great idea that he mentioned in the other thread over on the official boards that I thought it was amazing. The only problem I see with it is I'm not sure that you can just start coding an interface for Facebook without first getting Facebook's permission. If Facebook would allow Gemstone 4 to do such a thing, it might just be the smartest tactic that Gemstone 4 has ever used before. But even if Facebook doesn't allow for Gemstone to do that, than there is still the option of utilizing the Request System without ever having to get permission to do so. And in that case, Gemstone 4 wouldn't have to pay a red penny for doing that. And it would still gain the benefits from it.

Someone also mentioned that Gemstone 4 currently already has a Facebook and Myspace page. Well that's nice to hear, but guess what, so do I, so do probably most of all of you. It's not having the Myspace or Facebook page that matters as much as how you use it. I don't have a game to promote (although I do what I can for Gemstone 4 through my own personal page), but SIMU and Gemstone does have a game to promote. They would have to use the request system on both of those companies in the same or at least a similar way that Zynga does with it's Mafia Wars and FarmVille applications. If it can do that, it can reach many many many many people. As of right now, I doubt that Gemstone 4 sends out friend requests to people at all, probably due to the fact that they want to look as professional as possible in their opinion, and would rather have people come to their pages and join them instead. This is where the problem comes in, because sitting back and waiting for people to join your page - and in turn sign up to play your game, is not how Zynga has been so successful with it's games. Zynga has been successful because of the fact that it has been proactively going out and gathering it's userbase, by utlizing the request systems that both Myspace and Facebook have in common, and which Zynga's games are designed to take full advantage of.

[Shada]

I'm just saying it is always an option. I'm not going to sit around with a capped character waiting for the game to catch up with me. All video games, all games period, can't keep up with the speed of accomlishment. Unless you are hella slow at accomplishing things. It's just a fact. I can't count how many times I have reached max level in some of the video games with sort of a sad feeling that there isn't much more left to do. So what do I do? I roll up a different character, with completely different abilities than the one I had before, and I do it all over again, only with a completely different experience.
I recently quit FFXI after about a year and a half. One of the best things about it was that you could change your class and play a completely different one with the same character, with each class having its own separate XP total. And you get to use a second class at half level which adds more variety. Capped one class? Start another. This is a good solution to the "capped and bored" problem. I capped two classes myself. There's even a special item you can get if you cap all of the first 15 or so classes in the game. But then again, many players still couldn't wait to start on the life sucking lottery treadmill that is the FFXI endgame.

Also, you can have extra characters on the same account for a dollar a month each, but mostly they were used for two reasons: 1) storage for all those items that only one or two classes can use, and 2) the crafting system will only let you cap one skill per character. But only one login per account, so these characters could never meet. (There's a mailbox system where you can mail items to someone anywhere in your server, and that's what you use to transfer stuff for storage.) $15 Gemstone IV: one character. $15 FFXI: three characters. And 3D graphics, even if they are a bit dated.

As to the poll question, I have to say All of the Above (except Starcraft, duh), but mostly A and D. I still have my account through the inertia of having played since the last month of GS2 beta. (yes, TWO, and Shada's index number is below 500) I would log in from time to time, but never got hooked enough to start playing again until after I quit FFXI.

And I also have to say that the low population is probably also contributing to the low population. It just isn't as fun to play with so few people around, which surely has caused a few folks to leave. A big problem is that the place is so damn huge. Most of the big games like WoW and FFXI have multiple servers, and can consolidate servers if population goes down. GS only has one (Prime doesn't count), and it was so big to handle the days of 2000 people online. Now that the population has shrunk, half the place is a ghost town.

What should Simu do? I think the basic rate should lowered back to $10. They could also allow three or more characters per account (with only one logged in at a time, so some means of transferring items would be needed) for the $15 they charge now. And a little cheap advertising wouldn't hurt.

[Drew]

But seriously, Facebook does have a great system for marketing things with. And that's what games like FarmVille and Mafia Wars uses to market their games. Whether they are free or not. And as I mentioned before I really do believe that if Gemstone 4 can somehow utilize their request system to promote itself with, than it will have a far more powerful effect than if it doesn't take advantage of their system.

The Facebook request system is what Zynga uses so well. If Zynga can use the system to promote it's games, than so can Gemstone 4. I don't think Gemstone 4 will reach even close to the amount of people that Zynga has reached with it's games (because they are mostly free), but I do believe that Gemstone can reach an enormous amount of people by using the same request system that Zynga did.

The fact that Gemstone 4 costs money I don't think will negate the fact that it could reach far more people than perhaps it has ever been able to reach in it's history. Even with it's days on AOL and when it was free. I don't believe that there was ever an AOL game that was able to tap into over 70,000,000 players like Zynga has been able to do with FarmVille on Facebook.

Someone mentioned before about trying to promote through some of the old magazines or whatever that Gemstone 4 used to promote through. I don't think that will work as well as it would with some of these newer companies like Facebook and Myspace, because of the simple fact that you can reach a huge amount of more people through them with less effort put into the process. The magazine idea should not be counted out though, and it wouldn't hurt to use that as well, but I believe that as with anything that method is slowly becoming obsolete compared to what you can do with online applications these days. Doing both though is better than doing one or the other.

Tsoran had a great idea that he mentioned in the other thread over on the official boards that I thought it was amazing. The only problem I see with it is I'm not sure that you can just start coding an interface for Facebook without first getting Facebook's permission. If Facebook would allow Gemstone 4 to do such a thing, it might just be the smartest tactic that Gemstone 4 has ever used before. But even if Facebook doesn't allow for Gemstone to do that, than there is still the option of utilizing the Request System without ever having to get permission to do so. And in that case, Gemstone 4 wouldn't have to pay a red penny for doing that. And it would still gain the benefits from it.

Someone also mentioned that Gemstone 4 currently already has a Facebook and Myspace page. Well that's nice to hear, but guess what, so do I, so do probably most of all of you. It's not having the Myspace or Facebook page that matters as much as how you use it. I don't have a game to promote (although I do what I can for Gemstone 4 through my own personal page), but SIMU and Gemstone does have a game to promote. They would have to use the request system on both of those companies in the same or at least a similar way that Zynga does with it's Mafia Wars and FarmVille applications. If it can do that, it can reach many many many many people. As of right now, I doubt that Gemstone 4 sends out friend requests to people at all, probably due to the fact that they want to look as professional as possible in their opinion, and would rather have people come to their pages and join them instead. This is where the problem comes in, because sitting back and waiting for people to join your page - and in turn sign up to play your game, is not how Zynga has been so successful with it's games. Zynga has been successful because of the fact that it has been proactively going out and gathering it's userbase, by utlizing the request systems that both Myspace and Facebook have in common, and which Zynga's games are designed to take full advantage of.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/backwardhatclub/cool-story-bro.jpg

[Methais]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/backwardhatclub/cool-story-bro.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/backwardhatclub/cool-story-bro.jpg

[waywardgs]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/backwardhatclub/cool-story-bro.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/chirag_t/Cool_story_bro.jpg

[Stanley Burrell]

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/chirag_t/Cool_story_bro.jpg

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5031/bitchshrugokstory.jpg

[RawR]

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/chirag_t/Cool_story_bro.jpg

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/3/36790/1067629-cool_story_bro_super.gif

[RawR]

And for everyone on this thread.
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/stfu.gif

[Methais]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3217/3015062728_6b27f9a6ae.jpg

[Tilnam]

I have always wondered what simu actually does with the money they get from their player base. They are running a text base game. The hardware costs obviously aren't that expensive. They have a low population, so I can't see the network costs being that expensive either..

They don't pay their staff. They don't do any sort of advertising at all...

Yet they still think they should charge $15 for a text game.


Honestly, one of the main reasons I don't play this game is simu. I feel they are making profit on this, but not doing anything with it. They are slowly letting the game die. GS4 is the most expensive MMO I have ever played, and yet it is the most outdated.

Another reason is the volunteer staff focus their time on implementing verbs and titles, and more areas in the game. Do we really need more areas when the population is already so thinly spread out? Sometimes it feels like I was playing a single player text RPG because no one was ever around. After 20? (i don't even remember how old the game is) years, they still haven't completed spell sets for every profession they have? Really?? I mean props to the volunteer staff, they should be able to program whatever they feel. But simu should really be reinvesting some of the money they get into paid programmers who add real content and balancing to the game.

And probably the final reason simu doesn't make new players, is the current player base itself. Sorry guys, but it's true. It is sad how many 50-cap players are just plain assholes. They bully people around lower level than them. Sure a veteran player might just get a ton of spells, blue crystal, and chop off the guys head. Or die trying. They might enjoy this. but a new player who doesn't know of such things can only get bullied around and die. Thus they quit. Honestly, I have never played a game before in my life that has as many asshole players as gemstone. And please stop using the excuse that you are roleplaying an asshole. You aren't. That is just how you are I guess.

tldr:
Simu doesn't reinvest their profit into balancing and creating content in their cheap game. Veteran players are assholes to new players.

[Coin]

Sean of the Thread;1041671]I would consider playing again if they started another new server. It would take like a $15 hard drive to do it.

More servers...not a bad idea at all.

[Coin]

Here is a copy of a message I am about to post on the SIMU boards so that hopefully their marketing team can take a look at all of our suggestions I have collected both from the official Board and from here for bringing up the population of Gemstone 4:

To the SIMU staff:

There is currently a poll going on over at the Players Corner as to why the population of Gemstone 4 is the way that it currently is today. Here's the link to it for those who want to follow it:

What Do You Think Is The Number One Reason For Gemstone 4's Population Today? - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

Things people have been saying about the reasons Gemstone 4 is slowly dying:

1. One player has stated:

"I would consider playing again if they started another new server. It would take like a $15 hard drive to do it."

2. Another player has stated:

"I'd say that any game that decides to target being a "niche" game where epics are *indeed* epics ... they will have an extremely loyal player-base."

3. Another player has stated:

"But I'll tell you this much, If I had only one wish to use on a game right now I would wish it for this one to go back to the way it once was, and to somehow get the thousands of players back that it has lost.

I know this is not a dream and that it could happen. If it's one thing I've learned in life it's that you never count something out just because it's old and forgotten about at the moment. I want Gemstone 4 to be like one of those super freaks on Ripley's believe it or not where the 72 year old lady is using her leg muscles to lift more weight than any of the younger 20-30 year olds competing with her in the gym. I want Gemstone 4 to show the true potential that a game like this deserves. And I really do miss the way the environment of the game was back then.

It just sucks too because in many ways Gemstone 4 is way better than Gemstone 3 ever was. And there's less people playing. It just doesn't seem right.

You know I was thinking...why doesn't Gemstone just go back to it's roots? Why not do exactly what it did the first time successfully and see if it works again? Make a contract with AOL so that AOL members who use the chatrooms and stuff can play for free. And I don't know maybe what worked the first time will work again."

4. The same player has stated:

"Just curious, but what if Gemstone 4 was to go ahead and lower it's regular subscription price to say, $10.00 a month? Thats only $120.00 a year. I would pay that.

That might bring some more people to the game. Might help a little bit.

A second option would be to go even further, and lower the normal subscription price from $15.00 to $5.00 a month. Now you're talking. The fact is that there are some really good FREE MUDS springing up all over the place. MUDS themselves will never die. It's just a fact. There will always be people who love to play MUDS. The problem with Gemstone 4, however, is that it's a great MUD, but it charges too much now for it's monthly fees. And the World Wide Recession is not helping things. If it lowered it's basic subscription to $5.00 a month I guarantee you that people will jump on board. More people and in the end the company would probably make the same as they are making now with less people paying more.

The last option, and I don't think it bodes too well for those who get payed By Simutronics for Gemstone 3, is to go ahead and eventually just make Gemstone 4 free of charge. Just like some of the other MUDS like those over at Iron Realms Entertainment. I mean those are great muds over there, and as far as I know they don't charge anything. It was only a matter of time before people started creating MUDS that were just as good as Gemstone 4, so why not just catch up with the times and make it free? That would obviously increase the player base by an enormous amount. I've had people tell me that Gemstone 4 looks really cool, and that they want to play it, but that they don't have the money. I mean is this really what Gemstone 4 is all about at this point? It should be available for all to play. Because it really is a staple of MUDS.

Instead of everyone talking about Gemstone 4 dying, why don't we (those who love the game) talk about different ways of keeping it going? I mean really, there is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever that Gemstone 4 should ever have to go away. Unless computers become obsolete or the power grid gets knocked out by some kind of disaster or something. Other than that, if I was SIMU corp, I would never take it away from those who wish to play it. That would just be a waste.

Currently, there are less and less people playing gemstone 4 every two years or so. Maybe it's dropping at an even faster rate now due to the recession everyone is experiencing. I am not sure, thats for those who run the books for Gemstone 4 to know about.

If 200 more people drop from the game than I don't know how much Gemstone 4 has already made over the years for Simu but I can guarantee that Simu won't be racking in the dough at that point. And, that the game won't be as much fun. The lower the player base, the less fun the game becomes. This is my view anyways. And if the player base is almost non-existant, than that's even worse.

SIMU is not stupid. They know their player base is dropping and dropping. The free option was the very last option I presented. It was last for a reason, it was last because if nothing else works to save Gemstone 4, than thats what needs to be done in my opinion. Starcraft and games like that still have a pretty fairly large player base and thats because the game is free. It never really loses too much because people play it all the time in different countries, etc.

The gemstone 4 player base is NOT expanding at the moment, it is declining, with no end in sight. This does not need to be the fate of the player base. Perhaps the fate of the current pricing, but not the player base. The Gemstone 4 player base I believe could be saved in a number of different ways. 3 of which I listed above.

I believe and know for a fact that $15 every month for people who have no job due to the recession is an expense they can do without. No job means no money. No money means no $15 every month for Gemstone 4. It's easier to scrape together $5 or even $7-10 a month than it is to scrape together $15 every month. Now just exactly how much easier it is is up for debate, but the fact thats it's easier can not be debated.

For kids who don't have any money whatsoever, and who might play gemstone 4 (trust me I seen some of the free games these kids play at the library and Gemstone 4 would be a 100% increase in terms of quality) can't because they don't have a credit card and their parents wouldn't think of getting it for them unless they had already played Gemstone 4 before themselves. Many of the teenagers today are out of work as well. And can't pay for Gemstone 4 either. I saw on the news that what was it like 70% of teens in the United States (The country I live in) are not working. Thats a HUGE amount.

The two biggest things I can see that would increase the user base is 1) more advertising. (I think banner ads on rpg/gaming webcomics with 60 day free trials would help) and 2) more new content. I guarantee you if monks ever come out you'll see a marked increase in old players coming back to try them.

Of course what do you do once those people start playing to keep them in the game? I'm sure simu has some crazy stats about how the average trial account logs in for half an hour then never returns. I know when there were 1k+ people it was easy to find someone to hang out with and hunt things with. You also had a lot of conflict with people which brings you closer to the game. It's not as easy when there's 350 people on and you rarely see anyone that level. (Of course I'm not sure how the levels are distributed, I picked a lot of sub level 10 boxes whenever I was in the east tower..and this was a couple of months ago)

Community events are nice, but having friends to hang out with whenever you're playing are better. Take a look at wow. See how many people are in guilds and play because they feel needed. I don't particularly feel needed when someone just brings their rogue or empath or whoever in instead of interacting with someone.

I'm not sure GS can attract more people without already having more people. Or maybe if we start playing and not just idling at tables when we're not hunting. Maybe if we looked around and asked others for help instead of relying on our extra accounts for healing, picking, spells, blesses, etc.

The bottom line is that if Simu doesn't figure out a way to market the game to the 8-14 year old range (the next generation of G4 players) then there is probably little hope of a major revival.

That generation will play just about anything if it sparks their interest. And the kids these days are highly intelligent. If SIMU doesn't start going to the places that these kids hang out at online, the websites, message boards, etc., and start making deals with those companies and sites, where if they will place an add that runs everyday on their site for G4 and in return SIMU will pay them a small amount and that if the kids from those sites sign up to play gemstone 4, through those sites, and in return they will receive a free 1 year membership, or a free 6 month membership, or some kind of deal like that, so that the kids can get used to that game for the time period, and that when their membership is up they will no doubt be addicted and come up with ways to pay for the game on their own (like pre-payed credit cards that anyone can get), then there won't ever be a serious revival in my opinion.

The next generation of gamers is always the key. Every major video game corporation knows this, every company in the world knows that they MUST market to the next generation in some way if they expect to be around for a long time.

It's not rocket science. But it HAS to be done if Gemstone 4 is to grow it's userbase exponentially (which benefits SIMU in the long run, because it will generate larger and larger profits instead of the slow trickle down of decreased profits that they must be experiencing at the moment, and have been experiencing for years now).

Thats what needs to be done. It SIMU can't figure out how to do what all other successful companies have done in the past, and are doing in the present, then yes, I fear that it can eventually kiss Gemstone 4 goodbye over time because it would be slowly digging it's own grave."

5. The same player has stated:

"I'm also a realist, and I don't pretend that corporations keep things going purely for the Customer's benefit. This is America, and SIMU is an American company is it not? Money is usually the bottom line. But that's what I'm getting at here. If Gemstone dies, and it very well could, and you and I both know this, then Gemstone no longer becomes profitable. In other words the money tree completely runs out of money. And for the customers, the fun tree stops producing it's fruit as well. So it's a lose/lose situation if that happens.

My point is that Gemstone dying is not a good thing for anybody. Not for SIMU, not for anybody. Not after all the work people have put into it, both staff and player alike. It's also not good for the World, because if the best text best game ever created (in my opinion) dies, then the World will have lost a gem. A gemstone 4. =)

It may not be how SIMU generates most of it's money at the moment, and that's fine. But if Gemstone 3 can die, than the HERO engine can become obsolete as well one day. And that could stop producing money as well. The key is to protect your assets on every level, and to not let a single productive entity slip away from your grasp. That's the way they should be viewing it. I mean I'm not gonna say...."So what if Bobby gives me $5000 a week? Joey gives me $10,000. So Bobby can take his $5,000 and shove it where the Sun don't shine!" Yeah that'll show um. I mean that's just fricken retarted. Who loses in the end on that deal? I do. And this case if Gemstone dies than so does SIMU.

I think we are mostly all already in agreement that it is indeed dying. I mean you know, and that's true thats true. I guess, in some ways, I was just wondering if you know, and everything is sweet in game by the way, but you know, when it comes to the dying, I just thought, you know and I mean I don't know....the wind, the seasons, they change...you know..., but about the dying part, I don't know I mean I just thought maybe somethin could be done about it. :shrug:"

[Coin]

6. The same player has stated:

"An example of a company that has successfully figured out a way to promote itself with the current times is Zynga, the creator of Mafia Wars. Mafia Wars was the 2009 Webby Award People's Voice Winner in the Games category. Mafia Wars is available on Facebook, MySpace, Tagged, Sonico, and Yahoo. To my understanding, the game is free, although there may be some way where players have to pay for certain things to get certain benefits. I'm not sure because I've never played it. Mafia Wars has more than 25.9 million monthly active accounts. The point being that Zynga, which started out with a game that had not been marketed yet, figured out a way to promote through some of the most popular online companies out there today, and they are reaping in the benefits like you wouldn't believe.

Their player base is so diverse it's not even funny. I can't tell you how many old ladies have sent me a free shotgun on my facebook page. lol. Or how many little kids have asked me to join their mafia family.

But here's the deal. As fun as a game as mafia wars is, I would bet you hands down that Gemstone 4 is more complex, more in depth, more interactive, and more entertaining.

So if the marketing team at SIMU can figure out how to convince a major popular online company to accept a promotional deal with them, they can reap in the benefits just as easily. If it's pop up pictures that gamers want these days (because I think that's what Mafia Wars uses, I'm not 100% sure though) than I'm sure that pop up pictures can be incorporated into the Wizard, and Stormfront, just as easily.

It can be done. Gemstone 4 can be successfully promoted. Somebody just has to take the initiative and put forth the effort. You reap what you sow."

7. The same player has stated:

"I should also add that Zynga is responsible for promoting yet another successful game, FarmVille, which has recently become the most popular game application on Facebook. And as far as I know Facebook is the only company that it is currently being marketed too.

But this is what will blow your mind. FarmVille's active userbase was recorded at 72,015,037 active users on December 11, 2009. You read that right, 72 Million active users. And it's a fairly new game.

Now you can't tell me that collecting different looking farm animals beats gaming in the World of Gemstone 4. I'm sorry, I love animals, but give me a break.

If Gemstone 4 was able to tap into even just 1% of the amount of fanbase that compromises Farmville, it would be a MAJOR accomplishment. Just 1 itty bitty percent."

8. The same player has stated:

"Gemstone's/Simu's staff should use their Facebook and Myspace pages to send out friend requests within the acceptable amount of friend requests per hour limit. So 112 friend requests per day (7 every 3 hours or so - myspace + facebook included) comes to 40,880 friends per year. Make two pages on facebook/myspace, both related to GS, and use the program to promote both of them, and that comes to 81,760 friends per year. There is currently no limit to the amount of accounts/pages you can create on facebook and/or myspace, so of course one could use their imagination for as far as they wanted to go with it. Just make sure to somehow create a secondary program that posts a message on all of your friend's walls/homepages at least once per day. Why not? Mafia Wars gets away with it. I get like 3 posts on my homepage/wall per day relating to that game. I delete them of course. They could just hire 3 people who's sole job is to divide the 112 friend requests/224 friend requests/however many are sent out per day between themselves, and they would reach many many different people."

9. The same player has stated:

"Fact is, no one from SIMU would get in trouble for going behind the scenes and creating pages on facebook/myspace related to Gemstone and if they sent out an enormous amount of friend requests if they did it undercover. In fact I think that's exactly what the Mafia Wars staff does. It can't all be players that harass my page daily with mafia wars requests. Just adding this all up: If SIMU can pay 3 people to set up two different pages each (1 for facebook and 1 for myspace, all relating to Gemstone 4), and the pages can be identicle or slightly different it wouldn't matter, because neither facebook or myspace frown upon having the same exact named pages under people search because it's the same thing as having 100 Bob Johnsons located in New York, New York, but if just 3 people have 2 sites each pumping out 122 friend requests per day, that comes to a total of 732 friend requests per day. Factor out that 85% of the people will accept the requests and you come out with a total of 613 friends per day. 613 friends per day for all 6 pages combined comes out to 223,745 friends per year.

And the beauty of all of this is that it wouldn't take long for Gemstone 4 to see results, because SIMU wouldn't have to change a thing that it's doing at all right now. Because as anyone knows who is familiar with facebook, when you type in any message/comment or update on your profile/wall/photo section/notes/links or any of the other options, it automatically gets sent to all the friends you have on your list. This means that if Simu pays 3 people to set up 6 pages total pumping out those friend requests daily until it reaches that total of 223,745 friends for the year, then one single message relating to the 1 month free trial would reach all 223,745 of those friends in an instant. And I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt that Zynga is currently using this exact same strategy with it's two most popular games.

You send out a message relating to the 1 month free trial to 223,745 people all within a few seconds time, and I guarantee you that you will have some traffic headed your direction.

And there is a cherry on the top for all of this as well if SIMU went ahead with this strategy, because I currently have 400 friends on my publicly viewable page on facebook at the moment, and because of the public view status of my page I receive roughly 3-4 friend requests daily from people who want to join my friends list.

So you figure if we apply the same concept to the 223,745 friends that would be on all 6 pages combined, then all 6 pages would get literally thousands of daily automatic friend requests sent to their pages for doing nothing other than having their pages be available for public viewing. I mean it doesn't get much easier than that.

Before you know it, together with the friend requests being sent out and the friend requests that would be coming in both on a daily basis, it wouldn't take long for the 6 sites to reach the point where the friends would total in the millions. And then each time the SIMU staff wants to send comments/updates on those pages then they would reach millions of people in an instant rather than hundreds of thousands. And it really wouldn't take that long for all of this to become a reality either.

The more pages put up, and the more people pumping out requests, the faster the process would complete itself."

10. The same player has stated:

"It would appear to me, at least on the surface, that both Mafia Wars and FarmVille were designed to work almost perfectly for benefiting from myspace and facebook, before they were ever even marketed towards them. Obviously they had their eye on the prize, long before they had ever even sealed the deal.

So whoever created these games, definately knew that facebook and myspace HAD TO BE the kind of companies they marketed to otherwise the games as they are currently designed would be total failures. Luckily they placed their bets right, because it would appear that they ended up getting exactly what they were hoping for.

So either two things happened in this case. Either myspace and facebook both approached Zynga asking it to produce games that would be designed to work well with their applications, or.....Zynga guessed right and had enough foresight to know that both myspace and facebook would sign a conctact with it. It can't be both, so it has to be one or the other.

FarmVille. FarmVille doesn't have 72,015,037 active users. That's not what it really has. What FarmVille really has is 72,015,037 Facebook Friends. This is because it uses the exact same system for increasing it's games player bases that other members of Facebook (such as myself) use to bring friends to their pages as well. The system is identicle in these cases."

11. The same player has stated:

"Facebook does have a great system for marketing things with. And that's what games like FarmVille and Mafia Wars uses to market their games. Whether they are free or not. And as I mentioned before I really do believe that if Gemstone 4 can somehow utilize their request system to promote itself with, than it will have a far more powerful effect than if it doesn't take advantage of their system.

The Facebook request system is what Zynga uses so well. If Zynga can use the system to promote it's games, than so can Gemstone 4. I don't think Gemstone 4 will reach even close to the amount of people that Zynga has reached with it's games (because they are mostly free), but I do believe that Gemstone can reach an enormous amount of people by using the same request system that Zynga did.

The fact that Gemstone 4 costs money I don't think will negate the fact that it could reach far more people than perhaps it has ever been able to reach in it's history. Even with it's days on AOL and when it was free. I don't believe that there was ever an AOL game that was able to tap into over 70,000,000 players like Zynga has been able to do with FarmVille on Facebook.

Someone mentioned before about trying to promote through some of the old magazines or whatever that Gemstone 4 used to promote through. I don't think that will work as well as it would with some of these newer companies like Facebook and Myspace, because of the simple fact that you can reach a huge amount of more people through them with less effort put into the process. The magazine idea should not be counted out though, and it wouldn't hurt to use that as well, but I believe that as with anything that method is slowly becoming obsolete compared to what you can do with online applications these days. Doing both though is better than doing one or the other.

Tsoran had a great idea that he mentioned in the other thread over on the official boards that I thought it was amazing. The only problem I see with it is I'm not sure that you can just start coding an interface for Facebook without first getting Facebook's permission. If Facebook would allow Gemstone 4 to do such a thing, it might just be the smartest tactic that Gemstone 4 has ever used before. But even if Facebook doesn't allow for Gemstone to do that, than there is still the option of utilizing the Request System without ever having to get permission to do so. And in that case, Gemstone 4 wouldn't have to pay a red penny for doing that. And it would still gain the benefits from it.

Someone also mentioned that Gemstone 4 currently already has a Facebook and Myspace page. Well that's nice to hear, but guess what, so do I, so do probably most of all of you. It's not having the Myspace or Facebook page that matters as much as how you use it. I don't have a game to promote (although I do what I can for Gemstone 4 through my own personal page), but SIMU and Gemstone does have a game to promote. They would have to use the request system on both of those companies in the same or at least a similar way that Zynga does with it's Mafia Wars and FarmVille applications. If it can do that, it can reach many many many many people. As of right now, I doubt that Gemstone 4 sends out friend requests to people at all, probably due to the fact that they want to look as professional as possible in their opinion, and would rather have people come to their pages and join them instead. This is where the problem comes in, because sitting back and waiting for people to join your page - and in turn sign up to play your game, is not how Zynga has been so successful with it's games. Zynga has been successful because of the fact that it has been proactively going out and gathering it's userbase, by utlizing the request systems that both Myspace and Facebook have in common, and which Zynga's games are designed to take full advantage of."

12. Another player has stated:

"I think the general idea sounds good. Anyone ever bother to send this thread to Simu about advertising on facebook?"

13. Another player has stated:

"Farmville is, indeed, a successful business model. Finding a way to tap into that market would be awesome. That being said, even though I'm not sure how it could be made to work, I think this is the best marketing suggestion I've heard in a long, long time. Seriously.

Here's a 4AM idea (meaning, it's stupid, but just to get the ball rolling): Create a separate GS instance called GemStone Lite. Make the Java front end work on Facebook. The game would be free, but charge $1 or more for some of the stuff you buy in stores (say, weapons or armor made from magical metals.) Lastly, figure out how to keep the GS-Lite server from melting when it has 50,000 players logged in. Ok, maybe, figure that part out first."

14. Another player has stated:

"I would love to see some attempt at marketing for GS even at the level of flyers or some sort of enticement to players to try the game."

15. Another player has stated:

"I also have to say that the low population is probably also contributing to the low population. It just isn't as fun to play with so few people around, which surely has caused a few folks to leave. What should Simu do? I think the basic rate should lowered back to $10. They could also allow three or more characters per account (with only one logged in at a time, so some means of transferring items would be needed) for the $15 they charge now. And a little cheap advertising wouldn't hurt."

16. Another player has stated:

"I have always wondered what simu actually does with the money they get from their player base. They are running a text base game. The hardware costs obviously aren't that expensive. They have a low population, so I can't see the network costs being that expensive either..

They don't pay their staff. They don't do any sort of advertising at all...

Yet they still think they should charge $15 for a text game.

Honestly, one of the main reasons I don't play this game is simu. I feel they are making profit on this, but not doing anything with it. They are slowly letting the game die."

17. Another player has stated:

“I think the single biggest lost marketing opportunity was the failure of the Gemstone AD&D material. Now that said I haven't a clue why that fell through. I just think putting Elanthia into a D&D campaign with mention of the fact that it’s based off a currently running online game would draw people in.”

18. Another player has stated:

“I agree. I remember the "d20 supplement!" announcement and how a bunch of people were interested, but then things fell kind of quiet.”

19. Another player has stated:

“The premise of this thread is that Simutronics desperately needs to expand its player base to attain both profitability and future viability for Gemstone IV. This concern is by no means new, but we seem to be reaching a critical mass/point of no return after which it will be time to call it a night and shut er down, or drastically raise fees to play to the point where few would stay. Neither extreme is acceptable.”

20. Another player has stated:

“It's off on a tangent, but there is a game with a payment model somewhat similar... Puzzle Pirates, which is a cartoony pirate themed puzzle MMO (yeah, really), has 'Dubloon' servers.

There's 2 in game currencies, dubloons and pieces o' eight - basic items only cost pieces o' eight, and you only earn pieces o' eight as treasure. The good stuff, and badges to do the premium puzzles or captain a ship cost pieces o' eight and dubloons. Dubloons can only be purchased for real cash from the company (in game), or there's a market for trading them between players (also in game).

It works pretty well for that game.”

21. Another player has stated:

“I'd wager that the hourly AOL days and then the unlimited AOL days were the most profitable by Simu. Especially if their legal agreements were rock solid to be paid by AOL hourly regardless of AOL's payment model.

Now, it's a matter of P&L. If they employ $1m worth of overhead a year between real estate, servers, services, and people/benefits. Across all games they need only 3340 players at $24.95 for a year to break even. Entirely reasonable.

Anything above that is complete profit. The beauty of the model is that it's sustainable. They can, at any time, release GMs, scale pay, change incentives, do upsells for a little cash infusion, etc. So at any point in time, if they're not profitable, it's horrible management (or they're investing in things like the HJ engine).

It's really a great case study for an MBA student. It's sustainable, profitable, easily scalable and almost entirely run on the virtue, blood, sweat and tears of volunteers.”

22. Another player has stated:

“The biggest thing today is to bring people into our little sandbox so there are people to play with not only today, but in 2, 3, 4, 5, years.”

[Whimsi]

I'm going to hazard a guess that Coin is a manic depressive. Off your meds little guy? Or maybe you are just undiagnosed. Whichever it is, just remember..lithium is your friend.

[Coin]

Alright I posted it on the SIMU boards. Not much more we can do about it now guys except for hope that someone over there takes our suggestions seriously. If they don't, oh well, at least we can say we tried. =)

[Methais]

I don't disagree about the Facebook part (I actually posted that somewhere a couple months ago, but in one sentence instead of 4782043 paragraphs), but honestly I think Simu is too pig headed to even try to do anything like that, even if they think it'd be good too.

I seriously think they're really just that stupid and/or don't care these days.

[Tilnam]

They should just make the game like the other free to play mmos. Claim it is free but end up charging a plat service for being able to level past 20 and creating in game item for RL cash service.

Giving players the ability to create altered items for RL $$ might also promote the RP enviornment. Or it could fail miserably and produce a bunch of poor RP items like club o' death. who knows.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

!SCUSE ME COINZ!

This totally would have been more cool if the exclamation was upside down. That's how I read it anyway, as if it was Spanish.

[Stretch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peJWxqEVXPY

Referenced in Doughboy's thread, but starting at around 0:15...

[Durgrimst]

Giving players the ability to create altered items for RL $$ might also promote the RP enviornment. Or it could fail miserably and produce a bunch of poor RP items like club o' death. who knows.

This would make a lot of money for Simu, and letting people pay for fixname/fixrace/fixclass potions to change all of that stuff.

[Methais]

Simu's not interested in improving their game, sorry.

[LOL BRIELUS]

kinda a shame, i feel like a lot of these ideas are good, and could help to bring in more players, but it doesn't really seem like Simu cares...

[Methais]

kinda a shame, i feel like a lot of these ideas are good, and could help to bring in more players, but it doesn't really seem like Simu cares...

Considering how it took them 3 years to come out with a new profession title list and the pace of monks, even if they did like any of these ideas they'd never get finished and implemented.