Spell training question.

[AnticorRifling]

I want opinions so I can take from them and make an educated guess for myself regarding my spell training.

Currently, at lvl 51 I have:

Your spell lists:
Minor Elemental...63
Major Elemental...20
Wizard Base.......20

(I'm missing one spell but I'll get it before I lvl)

Now since they changed the wording on the official doc regarding the bonuses to to 425 AND 430 stating that neither gleen a bonus when training over the caster's lvl I was wondering if it is still worth it to be so overly trained? I still get the bonus to my minor CS for the spells in that circle and that gives me a CS of 285 when casting 415, 413, etc. this is good at lvl 51 but is it worth not having say enchant?

I'm debating dropping down to 51 spells in minor and dumping the other 12(13) into wizard.

Thoughts?

[Bobmuhthol]

Having enchant = Having money.

And when you have money, spells are useless. Protect yourself with a bunch of 10x items.

I say more wizard ranks.

[Varsus]

what bob said.

even if your wiz can only do 5-6x enchants, it is still nice.

-Varsus

[Kitsun]

Keeping my minor list at level, I have never really had a problem using any 400's CS based spell on a creature(+5-7).

I would highly recommend dumping down to like level and try to bring the other lists up to 2/3.

Major elemental is good for mana leech, recharging and other cute things.

Wizard is good for others.

Both provide more sheer DS than 400's.

You are a wizard damnit! Train like one!

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Having enchant = Having money.

And when you have money, spells are useless. Protect yourself with a bunch of 10x items.

I say more wizard ranks.

While it is a good suggestion, just the number of ranks that we're talking about won't turn him from not having the spell into a profit-capable enchanter. I don't have the numbers offhand but I'd wager that 30 ranks of Wizard base and probable undertraining in MIU don't make for a successful enchanter.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Kitsun

You are a wizard damnit! Train like one!

Hahaha!

Anticor (at level 51), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 70 15
Combat Maneuvers...................| 90 20
Polearm Weapons....................| 152 52
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 152 52
Magic Item Use.....................| 152 52
Spell Aiming.......................| 203 103
Harness Power......................| 175 75
Elemental Mana Control.............| 58 12
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 114 28
Survival...........................| 152 52
Perception.........................| 152 52
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10
First Aid..........................| 152 52

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 20

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 63

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 20

[AnticorRifling]

How's this?

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 20 22 ASAP

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 63 51 146 in-game hours

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 20 30 ASAP

[Kitsun]

Was just toying with the numbers to see if it was cost efficient to do it the way you did, I'm not even sure if I proved anything but it does offer an alternative.

================================================== ===========

From what you pasted, I can't tell if you converted PTP to MTP or the other way around.

The 20 ranks of CM cost you 240/160 TP's at 12/8 per rank.

The 20 ranks of CM give you +10AS, limited maneuverability, some lame ass overcosted cman ability.

If you cut Air Lore down to 24 ranks(for the -1 effect to haste), gives back 24MPT's...

Total = 240/184


Now if you put those points in Earth Lore and overtrain one rank to put it it +30. Your Strength would give you a bonus of +20(Or +5 over the value, half of what the CM gave), bonuses to Stone Skin, DF increase to 510.

E-Lore is 0/6 per rank so it'd be 186MTP's. Leaves you with approximately 230PTP's left to work with.

You could use it to pick up 3 more spells. More spells would put you closer to 2/3 trained so your CS based spells in other circles have combat value and depending on the spread would add a couple points in DS.

From the vantage of a pure, looking at a warmage, it makes more sense to me to have more magical skills to increase the relative power of casting. No idea if you would see this as worthwhile.

[Edited on 3-12-2004 by Kitsun]

[AnticorRifling]

Haste is still buggy though I still swing a naginata in 2 seconds even with the air lore I have. It should be at 1 swing a second.

Combat manuevers I've always wanted but I see your point as to their cost and I might consider dropping them for earth lore but it's unlikely. Hell even my original plan in GS was to be in torso chain and have 85 ranks in CM by lvl 160 it's just something that's been in my head.

[Kitsun]

I'm not sure what your base swing speed is with your pole, but with 67 ranks in Major Elemental, I swing at 1 second with a runestaff(base 5). I don't have any air lore ranks.

My vision of my wizard changed over time. My original wizard that I had back during AOL wore paper tissue for armor and snapped like a twig. It stuck with me when I came back. I was actually trained for torso chain by level 50ish.

After all the armor changes and everything, I didn't feel it was worth it anymore so I went to being a pure pure.

Plus all the spell durations are based off spells known. It drove me NUTS trying to keep them all running when my ranks were lower.

[AnticorRifling]

Spell duration isn't a big deal. With 184 mana, wracking, and giant spirit regen I can put up 4 hours of spells with little trouble. And my hunts are always over before 430,425,520,913, and my signs drop.

Base speed of the weapon I use currently is: Base Speed: +6

I swing it in 5 seconds without haste, 2 with. I would think that with my air lore trainig I'd get the extra -1 knocked off so it would be a one second swing. I might be crunching the numbers screwy though.

[AnticorRifling]

Well I moved my spells. It will be 128 more hours till it's done (started at 146) but I think I'll be happy with the move. I'm gonna lose alot on my Minor Elemental CS but that's life and it's not my bread and butter currently so it's not a huge loss.

I went from 63 minor elemental ranks to 51
I went from 20 major elemental ranks to 22
I went from 20 wizard ranks to 30

Now, Kitsun brings up an interesting point. (See a few posts up ^ ) about dropping CM training (currently 20 ranks) and putting those points towards earth lore. I would only end up losing 5AS because of that change and I do like the premise but in my heart of hearts I'm not sure I could wear the title War Mage with no CM training.

Your thoughts?

[AnticorRifling]

Bump, input from/on last post ^ would be appreciated.

[Tophal]

You are about as battle mage as they come, and that's from a wizard that came up hacking critters with a sword and no round time. I wanted to stay a battle mage, but I feel I lose so much trying to justify it. CM don't mean as much as that weapon your slinging, so whatever is gonna make you a more bad ass wizard that swings a weapon is basically gonna make you a more bad ass battle mage, period.

Ok, I have a question related to CS with 415. Do I gain CS in 415 training above my level in minor elementals, or do I gain nothing above my current level?

-Toph

[Kitsun]

War Mage is HOW you strut your stuff and not the backdrop of how you got the stuff that you strut.

No one else knows you don't have any CM!

Who the hell is going to say you aren't a WAR MAGE when you knock their head off with a boulder?

[AnticorRifling]

True. I'm still milling it over.

Tophal you gain CS because you have ranks in that spell circle you don't gain a bonus to 425 by training in the minor's above your lvl. So yes you get CS from overtraining but you don't get 425 bonus and CS bonus. Clear as mud? Good.

[Celexei]

I have never seen anyone overtrain that much in minor elementals, but it does make each mage individual, personally if it were me i'd swap where your wizard and minors are, I find my Wizard spell circle to be way more primary, but then again i've never delved much into minors. *shrugs* just my worthless imput

[Tophal]

I dislike intensely the fact that I feel my wizard's most powerful spell is sorc-like, 415. Having said that, I am starting to hunt places a little over my head where a little boost to my 415 would be a great help. I use the heavy orbs sometimes, and they do make a difference in a lot of areas for me. I have tripled a lot, and I don't mind putting some more of those extra spells in minorE if I can get that 415 CS boost.

And by the way, Anticor, I have been living vicariously through your battle mage for a few years now, reading through your posts. They are fun to watch, and sometimes I wish I had taken the time to tweak my wizard into a weapon handler like yours. Obviously it is and had been a harder road in the game for a few years now, but I applaud and encourage you to keep at it.

-Toph

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Tophal
I dislike intensely the fact that I feel my wizard's most powerful spell is sorc-like, 415. Having said that, I am starting to hunt places a little over my head where a little boost to my 415 would be a great help. I use the heavy orbs sometimes, and they do make a difference in a lot of areas for me. I have tripled a lot, and I don't mind putting some more of those extra spells in minorE if I can get that 415 CS boost.

And by the way, Anticor, I have been living vicariously through your battle mage for a few years now, reading through your posts. They are fun to watch, and sometimes I wish I had taken the time to tweak my wizard into a weapon handler like yours. Obviously it is and had been a harder road in the game for a few years now, but I applaud and encourage you to keep at it.

-Toph

Heh, thanks. Me I still think 415 is my bread and butter when I actually decide to cast at things (which is rare) I'm trying to see if I like have fewer spells in minor and more in the other better but time will tell I can always switch back (just takes 6 days to switch heh).

Come out hunting with me sometime we'll have some fun.