Looking for shield Build info

[zhelas]

Today I don't know what it is.. but the Temple has been been on a disarming kick. Disarmed 3 times in less than 1 hr and I lost one runestaff.

I know I could Pick up Cmans and get 5 ranks of Disarm. That is an option.

I do know that Shield builds have the benefits.. So I am looking for info from folks who have shield builds.

1. Do you need to have a combination of Shield and Brawl or is Shield by itself all that is needed? Looking at my skills below. I can reclaim all my summoning lores and bring my arcane symbols down to 101 ranks. Doing so will allow me to be fully 1x in shields.

2. Since Dodge is expensive for Sorcerer's to obtain. What size shields do you carry? Small, Medium or Large?

Thanks for your help.

Peace

Zhelas (at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24
Arcane Symbols.....................| 302 202
Magic Item Use.....................| 201 101
Spell Aiming.......................| 302 202
Harness Power......................| 201 101
Elemental Mana Control.............| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 201 101
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 132 36
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 150 50
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 200 100
Perception.........................| 150 50
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 160 60

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 75

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 50

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 120

[Swami71]

.5x Shield use and a decent enchant tower will do you (you have no dodge ranks so tower). I got by with that for awhile when I first capped. 1x shield and 1x brawl is optimal of course. Use scrolls too. 40 ranks of cman for 5 ranks of disarm and you still have a chance to be disarmed so don't go that route. Shields give better DS in offensive too so good when you get feinted and 100% no disarm.

Check this thread out. Fallen estimated 100 brawl ranks gave him 75 DS in guarded.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=41188&highlight=brawling+ranks

[Celephais]

What I think you'll find most amazing is how effective you will be with only a single rank of shield use, if you have the points I would obviously suggest training more, but you could likely get by without. If you want to save yourself the fixskills before jumping in head first, get a single rank of shield use (and I've heard conflicting reports about the benefits of a single rank of brawling), and check out your DS with a shield (keeping in mind that you'll likely get a better shield and enchant goes directly into DS regardless of stance).

Try it out for a couple hunts and see how you feel about it. Asrial posted a pretty comprehensive guide to calculating DS: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=43815

(As far as the shield vs brawling, go shield... if you're picking up a gem or whatever you will lose your brawling DS, same as a runestaff would, that and shield DS is substantially improved against ranged attacks, and you won't be barehand parrying as a sorc.

[zhelas]

.5x Shield use and a decent enchant tower will do you (you have no dodge ranks so tower). I got by with that for awhile when I first capped. 1x shield and 1x brawl is optimal of course. Use scrolls too. 40 ranks of cman for 5 ranks of disarm and you still have a chance to be disarmed so don't go that route. Shields give better DS in offensive too so good when you get feinted and 100% no disarm.


What I think you'll find most amazing is how effective you will be with only a single rank of shield use, if you have the points I would obviously suggest training more, but you could likely get by without. If you want to save yourself the fixskills before jumping in head first, get a single rank of shield use (and I've heard conflicting reports about the benefits of a single rank of brawling)

Good points.

I thought it was tower shield when you have zero dodge.

I was originally going to finish my summoning lore project. Then pick up physical fitness. However, I may do the testing As Celephais mentioned to see if I like it. Then test out a shield build just before the new anual fix skills comes out.

I to have heard conflicting reports about the benefits of a single rank of brawling.

Peace

[Celephais]

I'm mixed on the automatic choice of tower shield. I haven't scoured Asrial's data or tried to reconcile what I had seen, but I believe the "innate" bonus you get just for having a shield is reduced with larger shields, so you're not automatically better having a tower shield if you aren't trained in shield use. Technically I have more dodge ranks than shield use at any given momment on my wizard (thanks to blurs). I just rock an unconverted tower shield... so when I finish off my other goals and start working on shield ranks I can convert it to tower.

[Fallen]

If you're spell tanking hard, you can likely get away with no brawling training. However, I wouldn't skimp on shield use. In defensive/guarded with a Tower you will get a decent amount of blocked shots with a full 1x shield. In my own research I found Towers win out, especially because you really no longer have to worry about bolt/thrown attacks. They simply wont hit you with a high enchant Tower in hand and 1x shields. The middling amount of DS varience between lesser shields, and the lessened dodge penalty really means nothing as we are sorcs..we don't dodge shit, and you GAIN more outright blocks and Bolt DS.

WTF are all your points? I think you can free up a good bit if you're looking to scavenge for shield/brawl ranks by dropping down to 73 ranks of Minor Elemental and not lose any sorcerer CS. You could also shave a few ranks of necro lore and you likely wouldn't miss it too much. Between those two, you should have enough to get all the training you need. I wouldn't fuck with Arcane Symbols ranks, as there are a few spells which give a pretty massive duration with full 2x ranks.

As a general piece of advice, I would definitely recommend going up to a full 1x Physical Fitness. It is a pain to do so because you don't really see the benefits as you train the skill up, but believe me, they exist. Doing so will help with your critter maneuver defense, but also with your swimming/climbing checks. It will also help against the Triton drowning maneuver.

[Archigeek]

Shield use does have its advantages, though my perspective (warrior) is surely different. One thing to also keep in mind is that it isn't all about DS anymore. Blocking counts for something too, and that bigger shield will give you more blocks.

I've got two decent shields for sale: a 5x illthorn wall shield that gives you an extra 10 bonus to shield use, and a 6x rolaren one for sale that changes size from medium to large to tower.

[Asrial]

..but I believe the "innate" bonus you get just for having a shield is reduced with larger shields..Your comments are exactly why I hate the staff of Simutronics and their "don't tell" policy.

Bare out the f'ing formulas so we can all make accurately informed decisions about our f'ing training.

OMG, someone's going to steal the concept and use it in their own game!

/rant

To get to your quoted comment...

If you're talking about the +20 innate bonus, it's best to think of it as added to the shield enchant (whether it's +0 or +50). It never changes regardless of the shield size or stance. Also, I think every shield BUT the wooden shield has this (and it's been so long since I've looked at a wooden shield that maybe it's been updated too; it used to be that a wooden shield didn't have the innate bonus but a reinforced shield did (maybe so they could give the wooden one to creatures and make them not have the bonus?))

As to your lingering uncertainty about the 1 rank of brawling.. what are you wanting more clarification about? I'm not saying this to be sarcastic or anything. I'm honestly asking so I can provide you with log style data to illustrate what I'm talking about :)

[Asrial]

Actually.. I just went ahead and captured some data for you Celephais.

.

[0 ranks of brawling, empty hands, stance defensive]

You swing a closed fist at Arianiss!
AS: +16 vs DS: +407 with AvD: +4 + d100 roll: +95 = -292
A clean miss.

You hurl a small surge of electricity at Arianiss!
AS: +292 vs DS: +441 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +68 = -57
A clean miss.

.

[1 rank of brawling, empty hands, stance defensive]


You swing a closed fist at Arianiss!
AS: +16 vs DS: +416 with AvD: +4 + d100 roll: +21 = -375
A clean miss.

You hurl a small surge of electricity at Arianiss!
AS: +292 vs DS: +391 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +91 = +16
A clean miss.

.

[EDIT: For the record, for anyone not mechanically familiar with the parry formula, the melee DS I gained going from 0 ranks to 1 rank is the formula activating and I'm gaining DS from my stats; going from 1 rank to 2 ranks is NOT as dramatic.]

[Celephais]

Asrial, would I see the effect of having 0 ranks of brawling if I had a gem in hand? This would make it a no-brainer for me to just keep the 1 rank, because I could "swap" to a bolt defense by just holding something random.

[Asrial]

I'm sure I've tested that but I don't remember the results. I'll poke at it when I get home from school.

[Asrial]

Sorry this is so late Celephais, been busy and forgot about it a little bit.

.

[defensive, empty right hand, 0 ranks of brawling]

You swing a closed fist at Arianiss!
AS: +16 vs DS: +391 with AvD: +4 + d100 roll: +47 = -324
A clean miss.

You hurl a small surge of electricity at Arianiss!
AS: +292 vs DS: +439 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +71 = -52
A clean miss.

.

[defensive, empty right hand, 1 rank of brawling]

You swing a closed fist at Arianiss!
AS: +16 vs DS: +400 with AvD: +4 + d100 roll: +36 = -344
A clean miss.

You hurl a small surge of electricity at Arianiss!
AS: +292 vs DS: +389 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +80 = +7
A clean miss.

.

[defensive, herb in right hand, 1 rank of brawling]

You swing a closed fist at Arianiss!
AS: +16 vs DS: +391 with AvD: +4 + d100 roll: +14 = -357
A clean miss.

You hurl a small surge of electricity at Arianiss!
AS: +292 vs DS: +439 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +63 = -60
A clean miss.

[Celephais]

So one rank of brawling is indeed the way to go, and if you're in an area where you need to worry about caster bolts, just whip something out (yup).