Redux...overpowered?

[Edaarin]

Okay, here's the thing. With the new combat skills and parrying/block/evade system coming in GSIV, do you think redux should be downtweaked or done away with altogether?

It was meant as a short term fix for warriors, but right now it seems to me like it's overpowered. At level 63, half the age of these things, I couldn't get killed on a 583 end roll to the head (granted, claidhs stink against plate).

>A Jantalarian marchlord swings a massive steel claidhmore at you!
AS: +635 vs DS: +131 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +60 = +583
... and hits for 54 points of damage!
Quick flick slashes your forehead!
You are stunned for 6 rounds!

I've heard it's going to be changed, but no word on how. What are your thoughts?

Edit: I'm an idiot and put this in the wrong folder, sorry. Heh.

[Edited on 7-25-2003 by Edaarin]

[Warriorbird]

Its getting a downtweak. A lot less levels available. I imagine they'll adjust it depending on how they change the crit system, but they're wussing out on that, so who knows.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

I think it needs modification (I.E a sorcerer size downtweak) but should still be a part of the game.

[Parkbandit]

I see Warclaidhm took your poll.

[Weedmage Princess]

I picked the option where it says about rogues having to wear brig now. I did the switch from brig to chain with my character not too long ago (first time I every played a character that wore anything higher than brig) and the difference was amazing to me. But, I am sticking to that only because I'm not sure how dodge and other new mechanics that will also affect hunting will work. A rogue with unbelievable dodging ability AND unbelievable redux would be a bit unbalancing, I'd say. So I guess I probably shouldn't have voted..heh.

[Skaster]

Keep it the way it is. Plenty of spells increase, including selfcast ones, increase BOTH TD and DS. Warriors, unless spending an ungodly amount of MTPs, cannot increase their TD, and past level 60, a successful cast of a lethal spell will kill them or put them into a position to be killed.

Redux is not infalliable, I saw Cemb die because he thought he could mstrike in a group of about 20 swordsmen, they nicked him to death in about 10 seconds.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Skaster
Redux is not infalliable, I saw Cemb die because he thought he could mstrike in a group of about 20 swordsmen, they nicked him to death in about 10 seconds.

Look at the circumstances. He should have died if he stands out in offensive with 20 swordsmen.

[imported_Kranar]

I think redux is incredibly unbalanced, but at the same time I think redux is the coolest ability in GS.

I'm all for keeping it.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Kranar
I think redux is incredibly unbalanced, but at the same time I think redux is the coolest ability in GS.

I'm all for keeping it.

I'm all for having that spell deminishing effect someone here mentioned. It would give warriors/rogues a reason for hunting without spells.

[Gokkem]

Very unbalanced; was just a bandaid. I fully expect it to either go away or undergo serious modifications.

[imported_Kranar]

But it's too cool to let it go away. I picture this massive tank taking hits, roaring them off. Picture the Hulk, he gets hit but he just walks right through it as if nothing happened and then crushes you.

If there's one thing I hate about being a spellcaster is that we're just twigs. We're weak, pathetic, twigs hiding behind a wall of spells. I don't want to ever see a warrior become a twig.

[Skaster]

Cemb should have been able to do that, since the swordsmen are only around level 30, and he's around level 90. He should have at least been able to survive past his mstrike RT.

[Zentoph]

On the other hand, he was also slaughtering groups of swordsmen alone. Getting nicked to death by 500+ rolls from claidhmores is nothing to feel bad about.

My opinion on the poll.. Same thing as Kranar. Redux is way overpowered, but I like it, and wouldn't want it to be weakened.

-Soroth

[Edited on 7-25-03 by Zentoph]

[Skaster]

No, he got nicked to death by 200 endrolls with broadswords. The first swordsmen on the invasion carried broadswords and swung at around 250-270.

[Soulpieced]

I have 44% redux and can wear full plate, along with all my spells and such. Though I can't cast in battle, it is kind of fun to play warrior once in a while... for now.

[Bobmuhthol]

Warclaidhm has more redux than you, Soulpieced. You must be jealous.

[Soulpieced]

::Grins:: Yea, well... Kiera has 77 percent redux and doesn't need spells, so nyah!

.

Kiera also doesn't have a 400 DS in offensive and exceptionally padded plate armor... Pbpbpb.

[CrystalTears]

:lol: Doh!

[Edaarin]

I'm going to miss redux'ed Edaarin. When I reallocated from a pure locksmith to a war rogue (to gain as many levels as possible over the summer before the changes), his redux shot up about 20% (from 38% to 58%), and shifted from augmented chain into breastplate. Right now, I'm 5 levels from training off that last second of ambush RT from full plate and just broke 70% redux, but can't pick worth a damn. I think I've spent at least a million or two paying NPC locksmiths.

[Sean]

uh oh .. dont let soupie find out you let someone open those boxes

[Edaarin]

It's not likely that hiding in anything more than double chain, maybe augmented chain will be feasible for GSIV. I'm not sure what they're going to do, maybe drop the success rate severely, or else make it so hiding in anything more than chain takes like 10 seconds, but it makes sense I guess.

[StrayRogue]

Warriors can increase their TD (or CVa) by wearing heavier armor. Plate mail is I think the equivilent of 11 trainings worth of TD.

As for redux, it was and still is over-powered, but should still remain part of the game.

[Neildo]

When looking at things by themselves, nothing is unbalanced. Redux isn't unbalanced, ambush isn't unbalanced, etc. It's when you start combining outside effects that certain things become unbalancing such as having a highly reduxed warrior with spell warding immunity and the like. When people hunt self-cast, things tend to be fine.

And then in the case of a highly reduxed ambusher, they're not unbalanced either. Yes, they may be able to kill better than an out in the open warrior and hide to protect themselves from their low warding ability, but that's a problem with the lack of a warrior's fighting skills for the warrior (which technically isn't a problem, just people have horrible one--way training plans), not the power of the rogue. With the out in the open warrior getting their manuever lists, they should be able to be more versatile.

- N

[StrayRogue]

I think Ambushing is incredibly over-powered. The sheer fact that Boomsplat can kill Drizzdst, despite him being over 100 lvls above the loveable Boom, points to some problems on the higher end of the scale.

[Bobmuhthol]

Boomsplat is like.. 130-140 levels above me. I still killed him. If you call that a problem, you have to be crazy.

[StrayRogue]

I highly doubt that was in a fair and even situation Bob, one on one etc.

[Soulpieced]

Boomsplat is like.. 130-140 levels above me. I still killed him. If you call that a problem, you have to be crazy.

.

Anyone can kill anyone with a Feras weapon. Yet another thing that needs to be changed.

[Neildo]

Feras weapons don't need to be changed. Nobody is invincible. There's ways to kill the ungodly reduxed person, ungodly high TD, whatever type character without a feras weapon.

If someone is super old and gets killed by a feras weapon, they either did something majorly wrong or their training plan sucks big time with them being limited in what they can do. A person getting hit with a feras weapon would most likely be someone not trained in shield use and that's their own fault. But hey, once GS4 comes out, they will have a better chance to dodge attacks without a shield.

And there's also nothing wrong with Boomsplat killing Drizzsdt with ambush either. Certainly someone of Boomsplat's level SHOULD have ambush maxed out regardless of what the cap is, and that should be deadly. It's Drizzsdt fault for getting hit. If he's that old, he should be able to defend himself properly. One simple warcry, tackle, whatever. And if you think ambush is overpowered all because he killed Drizzsdt, what do you think of all the magical classes that can ward warriors as well? Everyone has checks and balanced as well as minor/major weaknesses they have to put up with. And just because someone may be of a high level, it doesn't mean they're invincible.

- N

[Neildo]

There will also NEVER be a way to get rid of multi-accounting anyhow. Here's a quick quesiton. How many computers do each and every one of you have inside your home? Well me, I have four at my place, heh. I know most people tend to have two, and many easily have more. Especially with computers being so cheap these days, you can easily get more. And those are inexpensive high end computers. To play Gemstone, you can do that on a REAL cheap computer. Oh, and I have two phone lines. I used to have three until DSL came about.

People also need to realize that there's quite a few people in this game that have major cash. Those also happen to be the people that most complain about. They're the ones shelling out over a grand for a freakin character or item. So any restriction you may think of, while it may affect most people, it won't affect those you're trying to target. Even back in the days of paying by the hour, you still had people with two computers signed online at once playing GS, despite the cost. So even assuming MAing is bad, which it really isn't, it wouldn't matter either way as it'd be here to stay.

- N

[Neildo]

Err, whoops, I just realized this isn't the MAing thread. Sorry, heh.

- N

[CrystalTears]

It's okay. ElanthianSiren confused you with the end of her post mentioning MAing. I know you're not well in the head, I'll let it slide this time. :P

[Kailya]

None of the poll choices apply to me. I use redux, shield, armor, and weapon for defense and that is it. I rarely get any spells.

[Artha]

Redux is not overpowered.

Redux with spells is overpowered.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

With the recent changes to spells I would say Redux as it stands in GS3 is overpowered. If not before, pures will be readily able to eat bolts and take hits in guarded stance at higher levels. Maneuver attacks are supposed to be our bane, not regular attacks.

...Notice that the TD benifits did not go down for any of the defensive spells.