Polearm vs Sword board?

[Jukes316]

I just made a bard about a week ago. And usually I can never decide what route I want to go with my characters.
I was just wondering if someone can give some input from there own experiences with sword and board, and with polearms.

Also if you guys could check my stats, ect.

Level 11.
Strength (STR): 88 (19) ... 88 (19)
Constitution (CON): 62 (6) ... 62 (6)
Dexterity (DEX): 75 (17) ... 75 (17)
Agility (AGI): 73 (26) ... 73 (26)
Discipline (DIS): 61 (-10) ... 61 (-10)
Aura (AUR): 85 (22) ... 85 (22)
Logic (LOG): 57 (3) ... 57 (3)
Intuition (INT): 53 (1) ... 53 (1)
Wisdom (WIS): 63 (6) ... 63 (6)
Influence (INF): 75 (22) ... 75 (22)


Armor Use..........................| 54 11
Shield Use.........................| 54 11
Combat Maneuvers...................| 54 11
Edged Weapons......................| 108 26
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 10 2
Physical Fitness...................| 54 11
Dodging............................| 54 11
Harness Power......................| 54 11
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 54 11
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 54 11
Climbing...........................| 35 7

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 1

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 11

Also the reason I only have 2 MOC is because I had 5..but then had to switch it for something else.
And same with climbing. Usually don't do it, but a buddy wanted to hunt a particular area.

[Farn]

I prefer (or preferred, when I played) just about anything to using a shield. As a bard, you've got some good defensive and set-up abilities, both maneuvers and spells, to counterbalance the lack of defense resulting from not using a shield. Also, if an area is particularly hairy, you can always grab a polearm that can be used with one hand (trident, spear) and pick up a shield in your other for some extra DS and, particularly, bolt DS.

My polearm bard's philosophy was always to prevent casters from bolting in the first place rather than bringing a shield, though. Song of Noise works to prevent spells completely (though isn't group-friendly), or just lullabye them before they can do anything. Lullabye is amazing for a 5-mana spell.

I've always thought any weapon users besides ambushers (mainly rogues and rangers) who use shields are insane for putting up with the amount of tedium involved in plinking away with a one-handed weapon. I suppose warriors could mstrike the heck out of something to make up for it.

[Jukes316]

ya... I just don't know what polearm I would use then? They all seem slow as heck.
And also I was thinkin I would use a edged to get more out of flares.
With a polearm seems like I would one shot things and not really get a lot out of flares.
Maybe I'm thinkin over it too much.

[Lumi]

Polearms are pretty sweet, they hit hard, they have great maneuver support in the form of Charge, and they're cheaper for bards than any other class except warriors.

Edged weapons are lighter, faster, and will let you maximize the power of sonic flares. They also give you the flexibility of using a shield.

1012 will let you customize your weapon type regardless of the path...I'd say this is slightly more useful as a polearm user.

1017 will let you trounce spellcasters regardless of path...I'm not sure if this is more useful to one path over another.

If you do go poles, you can swing a lance in 6 seconds, which is decent. I'm not sure what race you are, but I'm guessing it's something fast, so you'll probably eventually be able to do it in 5.

With either path, MoC is a good idea, but it's particularly vicious with a polearm. Ewave + mstrike == mass death.

Later on in life, when you have 1035, you'll get more proportional benefit out of the haste effect with an OHE (swinging a longsword in 1 seconds vs. swinging a lance in 3, for example), which also means more chances for sonic flares. On the other hand, with a lance, you usually don't NEED a second strike ;)

Either path can yield a devastatingly powerful character, so it's pretty much a matter of what you'd rather play with.

[Farn]

While flares are fun, I found the consistent damage factor and crits of polearms to be more satisfying overall than the random occurrence of sonic flares, even with air lore benefits. Besides, you'll still get the flares with a sonic polearm.

I did fixskills to two-weapon combat for a while, just for fun - a sonic dagger or short sword plus another flaring dagger/short sword was great fun, especially with mstrike. Add in Song of Tonis and you're a whirlwind of death.

[Lumi]

While flares are fun, I found the consistent damage factor and crits of polearms to be more satisfying overall than the random occurrence of sonic flares, even with air lore benefits. Besides, you'll still get the flares with a sonic polearm.

I did fixskills to two-weapon combat for a while, just for fun - a sonic dagger or short sword plus another flaring dagger/short sword was great fun, especially with mstrike. Add in Song of Tonis and you're a whirlwind of death.

It's a matter of opinion and playstyle; I like them both, but I happen to believe that bards are capable of generating more DPS via flares than any other class in the game, and that adds some kind of entertainment value for me. YMMV, of course.

[Lumi]

"Try short sword in 1 second, longsword and lance both get down to 2 seconds if you're a fast race- but no faster."

...did you seriously neg rep me for using a highly abstract example to demonstrate a relative comparison?

The point is you can swing an OHE multiple times more frequently than a polearm, which can be a big deal when you're swinging a powerful, double-flaring weapon.

But I'm glad it gave someone warm fuzzies to put a red box on my rep page.

[Farn]

It's a matter of opinion and playstyle; I like them both, but I happen to believe that bards are capable of generating more DPS via flares than any other class in the game, and that adds some kind of entertainment value for me. YMMV, of course.

Definitely. It seemed to me that the polearm path was overall more effective and consistent as a hunting style, though I admit it felt more fun swinging two light flaring weapons (one being a sonic) like a madman and watching the fireworks. I just got tired of having to depend on the random chance of flares and whittling away at foes rather than just nailing them with a polearm and finishing it right there.

I'm probably just impatient that way, though, as the vast majority of my Gemstone playtime was playing an ambushing/aiming rogue who was used to consistent one-shot kills.

[Monsoon]

Sword board, sard bard!

[Jukes316]

I'm an Elf Lumi.

You guys are making me go back and forth.
I switched to polearms to try it out. Using a Naginata.
Aint bad. But for some reason hunting right now, my AS dropped like 20 for no reason. but anyways.

I sort of wanted to do the twc. but I think i'd get bored of just plinking away at things waiting for flares.

So I should use a lance when I can?
6 rt seems like forever to me.
Right now i have 5 with a naginata. Which is fair to me.
Also another question. Should I try to use sonic weapon right when I get to 12.

[Farn]

The 6 seconds of roundtime can be hard to get used to, but it was worth it to me in most situations, except for some of the particularly dangerous quicker critters that you need you stance-dance with. Switch to something lighter in those cases. You can always sing up an appropriate weapon with Sonic Weapon, which is extremely handy. One fun scenario is to sing up a single-handed sonic polearm and sing up a sonic tower shield when you really need to beef up your defense.

If I recall correctly, naginatas lost their +20 to AS when the bonus got shifted to their AvD, so they have +20 to AvD instead of AS.

Sonic weapon is fun to play with, and I used it right at 12 for a while, but once some of the novelty wore off I decided to hold off till a higher level when I had more mana to burn and the AS bonus was higher.

[Lumi]

If I recall correctly, naginatas lost their +20 to AS when the bonus got shifted to their AvD, so they have +20 to AvD instead of AS.

That's correct. They're identical to halberds in pretty much every single aspect, except they have +20 AvD across the board.

Note that a sonic naginata does NOT have this feature (since it's basically a free +20 AS, that would make a sonic naginata a free 11x double flaring weightless disarm-proof halberd, which...well, I can understand why they won't let us have that, along with sonic claidhmores ;)).

Usually a lance is a suitable choice, but as Farn said, whenever it isn't, you have instant access to every other type of polearm (except a true naginata, of course). If you're going to play a polearmer, I highly recommend going to the polearm page on KP (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Polearms#Damage_Factors_and_AvDs) and memorizing a few of the weapons (specifically, which ones you think you'd want in various hunting situations that you can think of). It helps to know what you want and be able to get it on the fly.

Also, note that for all three of the sonic gear songs, you can change the base without ever stopping the song. Prep 1009/1012/1014, and then sing shield size/weapon base/armor sub-group will change the sonic gear to the newly designated type for the renewal cost of the song, and without any interruption in the song's persistence, so you'll never be without a shield/weapon/armor.


Sonic weapon is fun to play with, and I used it right at 12 for a while, but once some of the novelty wore off I decided to hold off till a higher level when I had more mana to burn and the AS bonus was higher.

Doesn't take long to get the bonus to +20, at which point the cost of 4 mana per renewal seems like a no-brainer in exchange for what you get. But at level 12, I suppose it might be simpler to use a physical weapon.

Keep in mind that you can also eblade a regular 0x naginata, and effectively end up with an 8x flaring halberd. Very, very handy :)

[Jukes316]

hm...
ya I figured why my AS dropped. for some reason I stopped singing my songs.
when is the quickest time I can get a +20 sonic. Or even +10.

[Jukes316]

Im sort of thinking of going back to sword/board.
Swing a falchion around since they seem to be the hardest hitting one handers.
But idk yet.

[Lumi]

hm...
ya I figured why my AS dropped. for some reason I stopped singing my songs.
when is the quickest time I can get a +20 sonic. Or even +10.

Sonic weapon bonus is 10 + [Songs Known/2], so when you have 19 song ranks, that'll round up to +20. It starts at +16 (10 + [12/2] = 16).

[Jukes316]

ahh
alright. ill probably try to use it right when I can then.
don't know what type of weapon i'll use though.
also do bard songs affect the whole group? I can never tell.

[Farn]

The Simu site will tell you which songs effect the whole group:

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/spells/spelllist.asp?circle=10

Off the top of my head, the following spellsongs effect your group:

Luck Song
Kai's Song
Traveler's Song
Song of Tonis
Troubadour's Rally

Songs that effect the whole room:

Song of Peace
Song of Noise
Song of Power

[Lumi]

The Simu site will tell you which songs effect the whole group:

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/spells/spelllist.asp?circle=10

Off the top of my head, the following spellsongs effect your group:

Luck Song
Kai's Song
Traveler's Song
Song of Tonis
Troubadour's Rally

Songs that effect the whole room:

Song of Peace
Song of Noise
Song of Power

All correct.

Single target (enemy):
1002
1005
1008
1013
1016
1030 (focused)

Multiple target (ungrouped):
1001 (as many targets as training allows)
1015
1030 (open)

Group:
1006
1007
1018
1020
1040

Self only:
1003
1009
1010
1012
1014
1019

Room (self, grouped, ungrouped):
1011
1017

[LOL BRIELUS]

definitely polearm. you save a few training points over twc. sword board is not worth it. Definitely lance, once your agi/dex will take your RT to 5.

[Jukes316]

Should I raise my Disc stat?

[Lumi]

Oh, yah, you're an elf. You guys have shit-tastic DIS GIs. I would raise it.

[Jukes316]

lol
well what should I change?
should I take some of my dex/agi away?
Aura?

[Jukes316]

Starting stats,

Strength (STR): 85
Constitution (CON): 60
Dexterity (DEX): 70
Agility (AGI): 70
Discipline (DIS): 60
Aura (AUR): 80
Logic (LOG): 55
Intuition (INT): 50
Wisdom (WIS): 60
Influence (INF): 70

[Lumi]

I'd skim a little from CON and INF. 10 points each?

[Jukes316]

alrighty tighty

[inso]

If you happen to want to maximize for level 100, elven bards can get some pretty nice ending stats. Here are the staring stats for mine:


Strength |(STR):| 62
Constitution |(CON):| 82
Dexterity |(DEX):| 49
Agility |(AGI):| 68
Discipline |(DIS):| 88
Aura |(AUR):| 49
Logic |(LOG):| 88
Intuition |(INT):| 68
Wisdom |(WIS):| 73
Influence |(INF):| 33

Ends up with all stats at 100 except intuition, with ends up at 90.

[Jukes316]

I don't think I'll ever be a hundred haha.
I just put them to wherever looked nice.

[Monotonous]

I had a lot of fun being a lance-swinger up to level 35. At 35 it's insanely fun with the haste song, but then I went pure caster and never looked back.

I'd definitely recommend using a lance over sword/shield. Big damage, big crits. If you have a wizard and spirit caster support for buffs you can start hunting glacier at 25 or 26 (just be ready to drop that weapon when titans weapon fire it!)



I don't think I'll ever be a hundred haha.
I just put them to wherever looked nice.
I told myself the exact same thing. I regret it so much now. I won't post my stats out of shame, but it *sucks* and is going to cost me around $240.00 when I want to fixstat out of it.

[Jukes316]

Ya. Right now I'm singing up a hammer of kai and liking it.
Chose sweep as my cman for now. So I can save mana for sonic.

[Loyrl]

I went polearms with my bard. I swing at lance at 7 seconds, Dark Elf it will go down soon I hope. Lvl 18 or 19 I haven't been playing it, bought two +mana regen enhances and I am rank 19 in GoS. 1005 & a lance = dead critters. I went with cmovement for the extra DS cause I am usually to lazy to find spells since my hunting partner ditched me! (Thanks Jayvn, 1 rank away from GoS Master!). Bards are fun, but I don't get enough playtime to remember the loresinging verbs, always gotta look them up and try to come up with a song.

[Jukes316]

Ya, i'd get so impatient with 7 rt. Mines 5 right now with a hammer of kai.
I need to join a society already. been lazy on that.

Also, just got 1013. Should I be using it at a low level or bad idea?

[Lumi]

Ya, i'd get so impatient with 7 rt. Mines 5 right now with a hammer of kai.
I need to join a society already. been lazy on that.

Also, just got 1013. Should I be using it at a low level or bad idea?

If you don't have an RP reason to avoid societies, I would suggest starting sooner rather than later, especially if you do GoS.

1013 is probably not worth using yet, especially if you don't have any MMC yet.

[Stretch]

After the initial 30 day trial, I spec'd my bard to a polearm build before using a fixskill to a pure bard build.

Something like-

1x armor
2x pole
1x CM
1x spell songs
1x air lore
1x manip lore
1x HP
1x PF up to 24

I could just never deal with the terrible damage from using a one handed weapon in melee- even with air flares, it took forever to plink things to death. Charge crit deaths relatively frequently, and it would take at most two shots to finish off whatever was left.

[Jukes316]

i'm doing pretty much the same thing as you did with ur skills. except maxing poles and no manip lore. I want it. just not enough room. I have telep lore instead. which is at like .75x sorta.

oh and i love sonic :)

You swing a sonic Hammer of Kai at a grey orc!
AS: +196 vs DS: +96 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +67 = +192
... and hit for 64 points of damage!
Strike to right arm shatters elbow and severs forearm!
The orc screams and grasps at her mangled right arm as her short sword falls to the ground.
The grey orc is stunned!

** As you hit, your sonic Hammer of Kai unleashes a blast of sonic energy! **
... 20 points of damage!
Good blow to right leg!

** With a loud snap, a blast of energy bursts from your sonic Hammer of Kai! **
... 50 points of damage!
Every bone in the left arm shattered and scattered about!
The orc screams and grasps at her mangled left arm as her wooden shield falls to the ground.
A grey orc gazes upward one last time and dies.
Roundtime: 6 sec.

[Jukes316]

also you need MMC to use 1013 relative affective?

also i'd rather join COL because of the bonuses it gives.
just have to go join the damn thing.

[Lumi]

1013 can be used to strip spells regardless of your training. But you won't be able to regain mana from it without MMC.

[Jukes316]

how much mmc is need to get an amount worth it, do to it?

[Lumi]

It's a percentage based on your skill. 24 ranks will max it out for you.

[Jukes316]

when casting 1004.
can it explode on any cast? or only if you try it after it says "you don't think it can be blah blah anymore"

like can i just keep casting until it says that and i'll be fine? or no?

[Lumi]

when casting 1004.
can it explode on any cast? or only if you try it after it says "you don't think it can be blah blah anymore"

like can i just keep casting until it says that and i'll be fine? or no?

Heh. No.

There is a hidden roll on 1004. There is ALWAYS a chance you will fumble and blow up the gem.

Apart from that, the result of your 1004 attempt will be based on that roll, your songs known, your Manipulation ranks, and possibly a straight up level mod (not sure on that one). Possible results of a cast are:

1) Gem increases value. Further increases possible.
2) Gem increases value. Value is capped.
3) Gem increases value. Gem becomes an orb (further increases no longer possible.
4) Gem does not increase value. This means that the gem is either capped, or orbed already, but the messaging is the same either way.
5) Gem is destroyed. Hand injury occurs (severity is entirely random).

When 1) or 2) happens, you get a message indicating how safe it is to continue.

1) "glows luminously". As safe as it gets, keep going.
2) "hums". The next step up, still pretty safe, but pay attention.
3) "improves somewhat". This is where most bards should stop if they aren't well trained for purification.
4) "cracks and strains". Consider yourself lucky it didn't blow up. This does not actually decrease the value of the gem.

[Jukes316]

Ahh. Thank you for that list. It will help a great load. I was just doing it 3-4 times and stopping.

[SpiffyJr]

Meh, I don't see why there's so much hate on the TWC. My bard (before I sold em) was a level 30 TWC short sword/short sword, long/short, dagger/gauche, etc or any combination thereof. I kept an arsenal of nifty TWC gadgets filled to the brim with different weapon combinations/flare types. I joined up GoS, would get a few haste trinkets made, and go destroy troll camps with dual fire daggers. Hitting the same critter four times in one second was disgusting and I could solo clear a camp in no time at all.

[Jukes316]

Don't be tellin me that spiffy. Gonna make me want to switch. ;)

[Stretch]

Meh, I don't see why there's so much hate on the TWC.

TWC and polearm are viable, but if you're going for efficiency you need to go with a pure build.

Example 1 (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=794621&postcount=35)

Example 2 (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=794306&postcount=34)

[SpiffyJr]

TWC and polearm are viable, but if you're going for efficiency you need to go with a pure build.

Example 1 (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=794621&postcount=35)

Example 2 (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=794306&postcount=34)

Nah, style points. TWC wins the maximum style points hands down.

[Lumi]

I'm pretty sure serenading something until its spinal fluid boils and it explodes from within wins for style points.