View Full Version : Rogues And Warriors
I was wondering if someone could tell me real quick the advantages of being a warrior as opposed to being a rogue. I already know that rogues can train more than anyone in hiding and stalking, but what can warriors train more than anyone else in? I'm pretty sure it's armor...but need to double check on that.
Both rogues and warriors can double and tripple train in weapons right?
Just trying to weigh out the possibilities here.
Endlin
10-23-2009, 07:41 PM
Nobody can triple train in a weapon type.
Nobody can triple train in a weapon type.
Alright so thats out. Can rogues and warriors both double train then?
Endlin
10-23-2009, 07:51 PM
They can both double.
http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Warrior
http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Rogue
Androidpk
10-23-2009, 08:20 PM
Warriors can berserk.
kgolfer
10-23-2009, 08:42 PM
Warriors can make cool sheaths........
Rogues can put locks on containers.....
AK
Fallen
10-23-2009, 08:49 PM
I was wondering if someone could tell me real quick the advantages of being a warrior as opposed to being a rogue. I already know that rogues can train more than anyone in hiding and stalking, but what can warriors train more than anyone else in? I'm pretty sure it's armor...but need to double check on that.
Both rogues and warriors can double and tripple train in weapons right?
Just trying to weigh out the possibilities here.
Warriors can 3x Physical Training, making them (along with Empaths) the square profession that can do so. Warriors can also 3x Shield use, making them walking tanks if they go the sword/board route. Warriors CAN 3x dodge, but it is prohibitively expensive.
Basically, warriors are less versatile than rogues. They can't normally pick their own/others boxes, nor can they viably learn spells. Rogues pay 67 magical TPs for spells, warriors pay 120 magical TPs per spell. A Rogue can effectively hunt like a semi halfway through the game.
Warriors have Berserk, which next to a Paladin's Beseech, is the best defensive tactic in the game. Rogues have Stun Maneuvers, which largely are ineffective when weighed against the fact that they are a square.
Build a warrior right, and you will have a beast that can wade into swarms, take a hit, and eventually walk away with everything dead. Versatility in my mind for a warrior would be training in MIU and Arcane Symbols so you can spell tank, effectively letting you call your shots via AMBUSH from the open.
Build a Rogue right, and he will be able to hunt in lighter armor, be able to evade the majority of attacks thrown his way, use magic to augment his powers, and get quick effecient kills from the shadows. Unfortunately, without the magic, rogues are simply not as adept in fighting in swarms as warriors, and it is unclear they ever will be. What they gain as a "Jack of all trades, master of none." profession, they lose in crowd control. Archery is more viable for a rogue than it is a warrior. Sniping from hiding while wearing plate is a one of several standard Rogue builds.
For more information on training, look here.
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/professions/rogues.asp
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/professions/warriors.asp
Note the links to their respective guilds. The skills available also help make the two professions more distinct, though there is some degree of overlap.
Fallen
10-23-2009, 08:54 PM
I just woke up and wrote that, so if any of it is poorly written, it is because I suck.
Thank you very much for the info.
So a warrior can triple train in armor correct? Can a rogue do the same?
Also, which profession has a better attack strength? If a warrior trains the best he can towards his attack strength, and a rogue does the same, which one ends up with the best AS in the end?
Just curious...
Warrior will have slightly better AS but if AS is your end goal, be a paladin. Also if you don't want to pick boxes as a rogue just be a ranger :)
Latrinsorm
10-23-2009, 10:06 PM
They can't normally pick their own/others boxes, nor can they viably learn spells.I'm currently testing the second half of this. My premise is that 2x PF, CM, weapon, dodge, and a little armor is more than a warrior needs to be physically viable, and that leaves plenty of points for spells. There's not going to be much point to it until I get to 410, but that won't take too terribly long.
Gelston
10-23-2009, 10:18 PM
Theres a few posts about warriors getting up to 425 on the officials(Before cap). A lot of people are against it, but Drizzsdt seems to say its awesome. I don't know though.
Drunken Durfin
10-23-2009, 10:51 PM
I'm headed that way myself. The in addition to the bonus of being able to cast it, it frees up 21 mana for other spells in spellburst areas.
Fallen
10-23-2009, 11:40 PM
What are you guys going to do for armor? Can't cast in plate unless you're a pali. A rogue can evade like a madman, a warrior not so much.
Gelston
10-23-2009, 11:48 PM
You can cast in plate in a sanct. I don't think anyone was discussing hunting with the spells much. And you could imbed your own 410 items.
Widgets
10-23-2009, 11:49 PM
What are you guys going to do for armor? Can't cast in plate unless you're a pali. A rogue can evade like a madman, a warrior not so much.
Most warriors that cast, tend to remove the armor before doing so just for spelling up. Any warrior who offensively uses spells while hunting in Plate, is very very very rare...
Sylvan Dreams
10-23-2009, 11:58 PM
Most warriors that cast, tend to remove the armor before doing so just for spelling up. Any warrior who offensively uses spells while hunting in Plate, is very very very rare...
How would it even be possible with the spell hindrance?
Widgets
10-23-2009, 11:59 PM
How would it even be possible with the spell hindrance?
Note the three count of Very ;)
Sylvan Dreams
10-24-2009, 12:01 AM
They can't normally pick their own/others boxes, nor can they viably learn spells.
Ages ago, when I played a warrior on Teras, it was pretty common for warriors to train in disarm traps and perception, then bash their own boxes open.
Drunken Durfin
10-24-2009, 12:18 AM
Yeah, the only thing I would ever see myself casting in the field would be Spirit Guide, which is why I just picked up that 213 rechargable crown.
Do alot of rogues wear full plate?
Widgets
10-24-2009, 05:04 PM
Do alot of rogues wear full plate?
End-Game, most did. But now things have changed a bit with the introduction of Evasion mastery and stuff.
But I'm sure there are still alot of old rogues who prefer plate over anything else.
I personally wear robes, and even wore them at roughly 30ish trains on my younger rogue.
By the way it is official. I discovered that only a warrior can triple train in armor. A rogue can not.
It would cost 15 physical training points even if a rogue could triple in armor to get 3 ranks per training session.
It would and does only cost a warrior 6 physical training points to triple train in armor to 3 ranks per training session.
So there is at least 1 obvious major advantage a warrior has over a rogue.
Androidpk
10-24-2009, 05:23 PM
Warriors can handle swarms a lot easier then a rogue can..
Widgets
10-24-2009, 05:26 PM
Warriors can handle swarms a lot easier then a rogue can..
For the most part
Androidpk
10-24-2009, 05:33 PM
For the most part
I would think in every situation.
Berserk + MOC = meatgrinder.
Widgets
10-24-2009, 05:48 PM
I would think in every situation.
Berserk + MOC = meatgrinder.
Yea, 410 is nice to have as a rogue, it really depends on how fast he is I guess and how many are in there. Alot could clear a room with a cast or two and a simple ambush to the head.
But I'd agree...Berserk + MOC is fun to watch
BigWorm
10-24-2009, 06:20 PM
End-Game, most did. But now things have changed a bit with the introduction of Evasion mastery and stuff.
But I'm sure there are still alot of old rogues who prefer plate over anything else.
I personally wear robes, and even wore them at roughly 30ish trains on my younger rogue.
Robes would be suicide against any caster even close to high level. The difference in CvA vs. plate, chain, or even brig is HUGE.
Gelston
10-24-2009, 06:53 PM
He is also talking about his character, Tsin.
BigWorm
10-24-2009, 07:24 PM
He is also talking about his character, Tsin.
I'm pretty sure the difference in CvA between robes and plate is bigger than the TD you get from 120 and 430 combined. Just because you CAN do it doesn't make it a good idea.
Latrinsorm
10-25-2009, 04:57 PM
What are you guys going to do for armor? Can't cast in plate unless you're a pali. A rogue can evade like a madman, a warrior not so much.Leather BP to start, then aug chain after I get ewave and the extra armor ranks (which I may revise once I start field testing in it). I'm expecting evade/parry mastery and mad skills to pick up most of the slack - 15% extra dodge is really, really tasty.
I'm pretty sure the difference in CvA between robes and plate is bigger than the TD you get from 120 and 430 combined. Just because you CAN do it doesn't make it a good idea.Robes are actually a weird case because non-magical robes get you a CvA of 0. Magic full plate's CvA is -21, compared to 2 for brig and 5 for LGP. Neither 120 nor 430 will match this gap, but one of the two main reasons I personally am excited about spellwarrioring is that I won't have to fuss around with imbeds or scrolls to get all the littler spells. I had a tank warrior before, I much prefer the ability to log in and only worry about one item in my inventory (whether I remembered to put my armor back on after guild reps, of course).
Widgets
10-25-2009, 05:01 PM
I'm pretty sure the difference in CvA between robes and plate is bigger than the TD you get from 120 and 430 combined. Just because you CAN do it doesn't make it a good idea.
Along with Signs, CMAN Focus, etc...Self cast, my TD is rather hard to get through.
I don't need the extra help of plate. I'd rather take evade mastery and armor evasion over the simple benefits of plate, in my personal shoes.
Warriors have Berserk, which next to a Paladin's Beseech, is the best defensive tactic in the game. Rogues have Stun Maneuvers, which largely are ineffective when weighed against the fact that they are a square.
1040? :(
Otherwise, I agree with Evarin's post, very well stated.
Fallen
10-25-2009, 06:42 PM
1040? :(
Otherwise, I agree with Evarin's post, very well stated.
1040 has a failure rate, bersrk and beseech do not.
Drunken Durfin
10-25-2009, 06:55 PM
Using berserk is failure in itself.
m444w
10-25-2009, 06:58 PM
Along with Signs, CMAN Focus, etc...Self cast, my TD is rather hard to get through.
I don't need the extra help of plate. I'd rather take evade mastery and armor evasion over the simple benefits of plate, in my personal shoes.
your self-cast is what? all the way up to 460 and 140?
Of course it's going to be hard to get through that far post cap... that's a rather poor way to present the argument for dodge vs heavy armor.
1040 has a failure rate, bersrk and beseech do not.
Which can be trained away! And 1040 works on multiple status effects at once.
Prone, web, bind, stun, calm, and paralysis, all at once!
<3 1040, just wish it would be swapped with 1025 and that they'd buff the latter.
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