Flu Shots . . . O rly?

[Khariz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScGC7nFDxM

[Doughboy]

Wtf..thats some crazy shit.

[Cephalopod]

Holy crap, I'm going to hell. I watched it with sound off and laughed hysterically.

[Paradii]

Holy bawl shits.

[Liberi Fatali]

Oh, this is rubbish. This is almost as bad as those idiots that attempt to link vaccinations with autism.

There is no clinical correlation here. Most dystonia disorders are inherited, first of all. Second of all, she is about the prime age for the more serious neurological symptoms to start revealing themselves. I'm sure if seriously questioned, there would have been an incidence of some emerging symptoms prior to her receiving the shot.

Granted, a lot of my colleagues at the hospital I work at are recommending that CHILDREN not receive the swine flu vaccine simply because it has not been tested yet. Physicians and patient care employees are REQUIRED to receive the new vaccine, though.

[Keller]

Barrack Obama doesn't care about cheerleaders.

[Drinin]

She's still got a nice rack, I'd think about it.

[Doughboy]

She's still got a nice rack, I'd think about it.

I'm glad I wasn't the only person that thought about that...

[radamanthys]

God just wanted to watch them jiggle.

[Cephalopod]

Granted, a lot of my colleagues at the hospital I work at are recommending that CHILDREN not receive the swine flu vaccine simply because it has not been tested yet. Physicians and patient care employees are REQUIRED to receive the new vaccine, though.

First, I'm pretty sure this video is a hoax. If not, I am going to hell, but damn it's funny.

Secondly, I'm surprised the people at your hospital are saying children should not receive the swine flu vaccine because it hasn't been tested -- it's true the test results from the novel flu vaccine won't be available until March 2010, but that's the same thing that happens every year with flu vaccines. The trial period doesn't complete until the season is over. This has been the case for years. It's disappointing when people in a medical field are ignorant in this way, and it only contributes to more widespread ignorance in everyone else.

The novel H1N1 vaccine this year was formulated using the same methodology as past year's seasonal flu vaccine. There's no reason why it would be more or less 'dangerous'.

As an aside, a lot of this sort of fearmongering is just poor science and improperly linking cause/effect. 3000 people have a heart attack every day in the US. If someone gets the flu shot today and has a heart attack tomorrow, you can damn sure bet the media is going to blame it on the flu shot no matter what.

[TheEschaton]

I love how the description is like, "Well, this happens to one in a million...." and then two sentences later is like "This has discouraged me from taking the risk of getting a flu shot!!"

Like you're that fucking special, you're not even 1 in 2, chump.

[Back]

I am not getting in line. The elderly and children should get it first.

[CrystalTears]

I am not getting in line. The elderly and children should get it first.
There is enough for everyone. There is no reason to not get it now for the "greater good".

[Clove]

Correlation/=causation.

But with enough restraints I don't see any reason why you couldn't tap that.

[Back]

There is enough for everyone. There is no reason to not get it now for the "greater good".

This improbable moment in human decency brought to you by the PC.

[EasternBrand]

There is enough for everyone.

Not true in all cases. Massachusetts, for instance, is having a shortage crisis. The flu-shot clinic I was planning on going to canceled their final three dates because of lack of supply, and this clinic is very well funded.

[Atlanteax]

Well, if there's any skepticism regarding the story (ie the comments on you-tube) ... it seems to be a legit story.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/health/One-in-a-Million-Shot-64189142.html

Oh, and I'm not sure if there's an intended irony with her wanting to be a Redskins cheerleader.

[pabstblueribbon]

Well, at least she has a future as a pop and lockin dancer.

Hmm. Is it getting warm in here?

[Methais]

Correlation/=causation.

This is apparently the phrase of the week on these forums.

[CrystalTears]

Not true in all cases. Massachusetts, for instance, is having a shortage crisis. The flu-shot clinic I was planning on going to canceled their final three dates because of lack of supply, and this clinic is very well funded.
I was told on good authority that the supply is sufficient. A clinic running out doesn't necessarily mean that there is no more available.

[Clove]

Not true in all cases. Massachusetts, for instance, is having a shortage crisis. The flu-shot clinic I was planning on going to canceled their final three dates because of lack of supply, and this clinic is very well funded.Yeah, like Massachusetts is the size of fucking Montana or something. Shoot on down to Connecticut, we gots tons.
This is apparently the phrase of the week on these forums.It's a common statement on these forums because many posters remain perpetually (stubbornly?) ignorant of the concept. But seriously would anyone be blaming avocados if she had eaten guacamole for the first time 10 days before the onset of her very rare and very debilitating illness? Other than timing, there's no corroborating evidence the her innoculation had anything to do with her dystonia.

[Methais]

It's a common statement on these forums because many posters remain perpetually (stubbornly?) ignorant of the concept.

I just couldn't help but notice I've seen it roughly 478230492 times this week.

[Paradii]

They are running out of flu shots in my neck of the woods, as well.

But people that get the flu are pussies.

[ElvenFury]

Yeah, like Massachusetts is the size of fucking Montana or something. Shoot on down to Connecticut, we gots tons.It's a common statement on these forums because many posters remain perpetually (stubbornly?) ignorant of the concept.

Massachusetts: 6,497,967 people
Montana: 967,440 people

I haven't heard anything about a shortage here though. That one clinic probably just got more demand than they expected.

ETA: On second glance, it looks like you were talking about distance to the next state rather than population. Meh!

[Cephalopod]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/10/21/swine_flu_vaccine_deliveries_run_late/

[g++]

I was told on good authority that the supply is sufficient. A clinic running out doesn't necessarily mean that there is no more available.

Even with a good supply I know my area is staggering distribution by risk(They have all the shots, just not enough people to do the injections). I usually get vaccinated by hopkins but they are going kids+elderly+infirm first because some youngsters have been dying in Baltimore. They are also keeping kids from entering hospitals and any employee who does not get vaccinated has to wear a surgical mask at all times. Good times.

[Killer Kitten]

The government rushed a swine flu shot out in the 1970's and people died. There was enough of a link established between the flu shot and increased cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome that the victims were compensated in the millions of dollars. The exact way that the vaccination triggered GBS has never been established.

Now the government is rushing out another swine flu shot, which is supposed to be "completely different" and will not increase the risk of getting GBS. Since they don't understand how the disease and the original shot correlated, how can they say that? Especially since doctors are being warned to watch for GBS cases.

I'd never get the flu shot. At least I always recover from the flu, I never fully recovered from my run-in with GBS.

[Cephalopod]

The government rushed a swine flu shot out in the 1970's and people died. There was enough of a link established between the flu shot and increased cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome that the victims were compensated in the millions of dollars. The exact way that the vaccination triggered GBS has never been established.

What's interesting is that more recent research indicates that the GBS during the 1976 vaccination push may not have been triggered by the vaccine at all -- GBS is a far more prevalent side-effect of the actual flu than it was in the case of the 1976 vaccine. Since many of the people who developed GBS during the 1976 swine flu ALSO had seasonal flu symptoms despite the vaccine, it's very likely that the GBS was actually caused by a non-vaccinated strain of seasonal flu.

Of course, the government did settle a huge class-action lawsuit and paid out millions to people who were impacted, but this was more of a 'holy shit, what did we do!?' thing than actual scientific findings that the vaccine triggered GBS. At this point, it's pretty hard to revisit all of that data -- but, to quote the CDC, "In 1976, vaccination with the swine flu vaccine was associated with getting GBS. Several studies have been done to evaluate if other flu vaccines since 1976 were associated with GBS. Only one of the studies showed an association. That study suggested that one person out of 1 million vaccinated persons may be at risk of GBS associated with the vaccine." (http://www.cdc.gov/FLU/about/qa/gbs.htm)

[TheEschaton]

Not to mention that was THIRTYTHREE years ago, and the vaccines have gone through dozens of trials and tests, and the swine flu vaccine, while untested itself, has been developed directly from a safe, well known vaccine.

[Methais]

Flu shots probably have more potential side effects than all those meds you see on TV where half the commercial is the narrator listing side effects which may include dizziness, drowsiness, insomnia, nausea, oily anal discharge, sexual attraction to Andraste, bad gas (the juicy kind), stroke, driving your car while sleepwalking and not remembering any of it, heart attack, and sudden death.

[Marl]

This one is better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gj5_PFbVo

yea im going to hell

[Methais]

I really didn't want to laugh.

I really tried to not laugh.

But I laughed.

I'm going to hell.

http://i38.tinypic.com/25fsfuo.jpg

[Doughboy]

This one is better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gj5_PFbVo

yea im going to hell

God damn I shouldn't have laughed at that...

I'll be there in hell with you...first rounds on me.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Not to mention that was THIRTYTHREE years ago, and the vaccines have gone through dozens of trials and tests, and the swine flu vaccine, while untested itself, has been developed directly from a safe, well known vaccine.

Remember you said this when you are fighting off the zombies (everyone that gets the flu shot).

[4a6c1]

We gonna get RAGE?

[Killer Kitten]

Every time I ask my doctor about getting a flu shot - because I'm one of those lucky people who has at least one bout of flu a year - he turns pale and says Hell no.

When I had Guillain-Barre Syndrome I was told it's a once in a lifetime disease, you never get it again. I asked my doctor about this and he just says that I'm in a high risk group and to not take chances.

There have been lots of changes and research since I had GBS - this WAS back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, after all - but they still haven't figured out just what the link was between flu shots and GBS. So they can't say for sure they haven't replicated it in the new vax.

And I don't wanna get Rage.

[Ashlander]

Flu shots probably have more potential side effects than all those meds you see on TV where half the commercial is the narrator listing side effects which may include dizziness, drowsiness, insomnia, nausea, oily anal discharge, sexual attraction to Andraste, bad gas (the juicy kind), stroke, driving your car while sleepwalking and not remembering any of it, heart attack, and sudden death.

Reason enough to never get the flu shot right there.

[Doughboy]

Theres something wrong when sudden death is more preferable to some of the other side effects.

[Killer Kitten]

Theres something wrong when sudden death is more preferable to some of the other side effects.

When you get Rage you run around nonstop for a month spewing black stuff out of every opening while you starve to death. Gimme sudden death any day.

[Latrinsorm]

There have been lots of changes and research since I had GBS - this WAS back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, after all - but they still haven't figured out just what the link was between flu shots and GBS. So they can't say for sure they haven't replicated it in the new vax.Do you disagree with what Nachos has posted; namely, that there never was an actual link between flu shots and GBS?

[Stanley Burrell]

Correlation/=causation.

But with enough restraints I don't see any reason why you couldn't tap that.

For some reason, I feel like I'd be happy if she used her teeth. At worse.

Of course this doesn't matter because I'm socially awkward and suffer from anxiety: ALL BECAUSE OF MY FLU SHOT.

What Tabor "Stonewall" the Confederate said.

[Toadkin]

I apologize for bringing up a somewhat old thread but there was actually a lot going on with this flu induced dystonia case and it's interesting to analyze how the situation progressed. Shortly after this news item was picked up, Generation Rescue (which is a big anti-science/anti-vaccine group) tried to use the story as evidence for their cause. They probably made short work of convincing Ms. Jennings that the vaccine caused her "dystonia".

Despite what you might have read in the papers (notoriously poor in reporting science) Ms. Jennings never had dystonia. At least you certainly could not conclude she had dystonia from those videos. What most neurologists who viewed those videos suspected was that she had some sort of psychogenic condition, i.e. the function was functional rather than caused by some underlying pathology. Once Generation Rescue got a hold of her a few neurologists in the skeptical community predicted that they would have her cured in short order.

That's exactly what happened. One of Generation Rescue's quacks, Dr. Buttar, suspected that Ms. Jennings movement disorder was caused by mercury toxicity. Now if you know anything about mercury toxicity you know this is highly implausible. There's one particular nice example in the literature where a chemist was exposed to a lethal dose of mercury and showed no symptoms until about five months later. Ms. Jennings apparently showed symptoms roughly 10 days after getting vaccinated.

Moreover, Ms. Jennings responded almost immediately to the chelation therapy, which is the standard treatment for acute heavy metal exposure. There are two problems with this. 1) Again it's implausible that she would respond so dramatically so quickly and 2) if she really suffered from mercury toxicity, chelation would only prevent further damages. Any damage that was already done would stay.

Patients with psychogenic conditions though are classic in that they tend to respond extremely quickly to treatments. The neurologist whose blog I like to follow mentioned that a patient of his responded dramatically to an IV treatment even before the drug had entered his blood.

All in all don't be fooled by crazy anti-vaxxers.

Here's a blog post (by the neurologist Steven Novella) with more info: http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1195

[Latrinsorm]

I've heard "chelation" on House, this person gets my vote!!

[Killer Kitten]

Do you disagree with what Nachos has posted; namely, that there never was an actual link between flu shots and GBS?

Hi, sorry didn't see this. I've read one thing that says there was no link, and lots of things that say there was a link.

Often when there is a link between one event (a medication or vaccination or a treatment) and another event (illness, death, birth defect) that link is discovered too late to help the people who were profoundly affected.

Nachos article is interesting and food for thought, but having had both GBS and this new and improved strain of the flu I can state with absolute certainty that the flu caused me far less discomfort, way less down time and fewer permanent side effects.

Three weeks of flu symptoms/four days missed work vs. 5.5 months in the hospital/residual numbness and incoordination in my limbs/permanent lung damage. I'll take the flu any day.

For the record, I got GBS in June of 1977. I did not get a flu shot (damn, missed out on the settlement money) and the last time I had been sick before then was in early 1976, when I had Mono. So there is no correlation between my getting GBS and having a flu shot or flu. I'm speaking here as a person who doesn't have a strong belief in vaccinations, which I know is funny for somebody in the veterinary field. I've just observed that sometimes being vaccinated is way more catastrophic than getting an illness and getting over it.

And I still don't want to get Rage!

[Clove]

I've heard "chelation" on House, this person gets my vote!!I freaking know right?

[Latrinsorm]

Hi, sorry didn't see this. I've read one thing that says there was no link, and lots of things that say there was a link.

Often when there is a link between one event (a medication or vaccination or a treatment) and another event (illness, death, birth defect) that link is discovered too late to help the people who were profoundly affected.

Nachos article is interesting and food for thought, but having had both GBS and this new and improved strain of the flu I can state with absolute certainty that the flu caused me far less discomfort, way less down time and fewer permanent side effects.But wouldn't it explain why the mechanism of the link, in your words, "has never been established"? Medicine is a tricky field, to be sure, but it's not like they're discovering quantum electrodynamics: could it possibly take 30+ years to discern the link between a very well-defined disease and a single very well-defined variable, once their relationship has been proposed?