Forest Gnome Rogue.

[Sietzer]

Currently only Level 5.

Need Help with Stats/Skills.

Planning on Either Going Voln Fu Route or Edged/Shield. Locksmithing of course.

[Widgets]

Currently only Level 5.

Need Help with Stats/Skills.

Planning on Either Going Voln Fu Route or Edged/Shield. Locksmithing of course.

Better off as a Burghal Gnome...

[Sietzer]

Better off as a Burghal Gnome...


Why is that?

[Celephais]

He meant Burglar Gnome!

:(

[Sietzer]

I see. So what stats should I go with and skill build?

1x Armor
1x Shield
2x Brawl
2x CM
2x Health
2x Lock
2x Disarm
2x Perception
2x Pickpocket
1x Arcane Symbols till 15

This is kinda my ideal build but I dont think I'll be able to get it. XD

[Endlin]

looks pretty doable to me...

I can't fathom why you'd want to...

but it looks doable....

[Sietzer]

looks pretty doable to me...

I can't fathom why you'd want to...

but it looks doable....

Forest Gnome for RP reasons. Brawl for Fu, Pickpocketing for roleplaying reasons, and lockpicking for it as well.

Though what would be a more viable way?

[DaCapn]

Dodge? If you're not even going 1x in it as a rogue, you're bat-shit insane.

[Sietzer]

Dodge? If you're not even going 1x in it as a rogue, you're bat-shit insane.

Oh ok. So put 1x dodge somewhere in there. Would there be a way to work in 2x?

[BigWorm]

Oh ok. So put 1x dodge somewhere in there. Would there be a way to work in 2x?

You don't need to 2x CM, especially if you are going to do fu. I would recommend 1x-ing that and trying to get close to 2x dodge.

[Sietzer]

You don't need to 2x CM, especially if you are going to do fu. I would recommend 1x-ing that and trying to get close to 2x dodge.


Alright. Cmans would I need to go for surge?

[BigWorm]

Alright. Cmans would I need to go for surge?

As a gnome I'm sure that surge would be useful. Crowd press is probably going to be useful to you as a brawler.

Also you probably don't need to be 2x in PT. You could do fine with 1.5x or even 1x, and though I personally like having more PT I consider it more of a luxury.

[Sam]

Do you just want someone to play for you?

You should research all the skills you think you want, and then try to train in them.. Look at a list of cmans, see which ones seem cool, and train in them.
I'd recommend using your first 30 days to try out different skills, and figure out how much you can train in each skill per level.. I'm assuming 2x brawl and 2x is very expensive for a rogue, and probably not worth it. But then again, if you're playing a gnome, you're probably not concerned with being the best mechanically.

[Sietzer]

Do you just want someone to play for you?

You should research all the skills you think you want, and then try to train in them.. Look at a list of cmans, see which ones seem cool, and train in them.
I'd recommend using your first 30 days to try out different skills, and figure out how much you can train in each skill per level.. I'm assuming 2x brawl and 2x is very expensive for a rogue, and probably not worth it. But then again, if you're playing a gnome, you're probably not concerned with being the best mechanically.

Not nice. I just dont want to fuck up my skills/stats. I've done that to much with my previous characters. I want this one to be good to go. I was told to tank logic on my paladin. Soo I just wantto be sure and such.

[Sam]

I wasn't trying to be mean. I'm just sayin' everyone will give you their bullshit opinion, but you're the one that's stuck with the character. If you're going to be investing a lot of time playing, you should invest a lot of time researching the class/race that you want and what skills you think are interesting..

Maybe you'll think MoC looks cool.. so then ask or search for MoC info.. But just asking, "how do these stats/skills look?" is probably not going to help you much..

[Sietzer]

I wasn't trying to be mean. I'm just sayin' everyone will give you their bullshit opinion, but you're the one that's stuck with the character. If you're going to be investing a lot of time playing, you should invest a lot of time researching the class/race that you want and what skills you think are interesting..

Maybe you'll think MoC looks cool.. so then ask or search for MoC info.. But just asking, "how do these stats/skills look?" is probably not going to help you much..

I pretty much have the brawl build outlined I just need some final advice. Like the 2x Dodge thing. I didnt know rogues used dodge more than cms. Stats is where I always get fucked. My paladin is one of my favorites, but without a fixstat potion he's kinda useless. It takes far to long to level up then it should have. Because I put logic probably in the 40s. I'm not sure on stats for gnomes or Rouges.

I Need to figure out a build for Archery as well, Incase brawl doesnt work out as much. You've seen the lil fellow though brute. :D

[Sam]

are you still in your first-30-days trial window?

[Sietzer]

are you still in your first-30-days trial window?

Ya till november 13th.

I'm using a Naginata for now. 100 STR/70 CON/80 AGL/80 DEX/90 Logic/70 DIS

I think thats the best for now, helps with leveling most.

[kookiegod]

Here is a good thread on archer rogue training to read with some varied opinions on training options/styles.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=34201&highlight=rogue+archer

[grossm]

Gemstone IV Stat Maximizer (http://home.mchsi.com/~cphillips73/StatCruncher/GS4/StatMaximizer/StatMaximizer.html)

Pick your race and profession, then enter in what you want your stats to look like at cap. In my opinion, the most tankable stats are CON, INT, and INF. If I was drunk enough to roll a forest gnome rogue, I'd probably place my stats like this:

STR 70
CON 70
DEX 59
AGI 33
DIS 70
AUR 82
LOG 73
INT 43
WIS 88
INF 72

Which gets you all 100s at cap, except for INT and INF which will be at 90 and 92, respectively. Alternatively, you can tank the piss out of INF so that you have all 100s at cap, except for INF which ends up at 79. For that placement just enter all 100s on the above website and leave the box for INF blank.

Personally, I think you might also want to consider dropping shield, decreasing PF to 1x, training in TWC and picking up Hamstring as your first or one of your first cmans. Also AT LEAST 2x dodge.

Keep in mind that even as a gnome with max strength and surge, you'll still probably be carrying less loot than a crippled dwarf. Additionally, archery might not be your best backup plan, since archery RT reduction comes from your STR bonus. As a gnome with max strength, maxed surge, and wizard strength all running you're looking at a maximum reduction of 4 seconds, which will let you aim a longbow from hiding in 5 seconds. It's doable, but certainly not ideal as you are basically foregoing your race's one strength: melee speed. So I'd say TWC, hamstring, and MOC are the way to go.

[Sietzer]

Gemstone IV Stat Maximizer (http://home.mchsi.com/~cphillips73/StatCruncher/GS4/StatMaximizer/StatMaximizer.html)

Pick your race and profession, then enter in what you want your stats to look like at cap. In my opinion, the most tankable stats are CON, INT, and INF. If I was drunk enough to roll a forest gnome rogue, I'd probably place my stats like this:

STR 70
CON 70
DEX 59
AGI 33
DIS 70
AUR 82
LOG 73
INT 43
WIS 88
INF 72

Which gets you all 100s at cap, except for INT and INF which will be at 90 and 92, respectively. Alternatively, you can tank the piss out of INF so that you have all 100s at cap, except for INF which ends up at 79. For that placement just enter all 100s on the above website and leave the box for INF blank.

Personally, I think you might also want to consider dropping shield, decreasing PF to 1x, training in TWC and picking up Hamstring as your first or one of your first cmans. Also AT LEAST 2x dodge.

Keep in mind that even as a gnome with max strength and surge, you'll still probably be carrying less loot than a crippled dwarf. Additionally, archery might not be your best backup plan, since archery RT reduction comes from your STR bonus. As a gnome with max strength, maxed surge, and wizard strength all running you're looking at a maximum reduction of 4 seconds, which will let you aim a longbow from hiding in 5 seconds. It's doable, but certainly not ideal as you are basically foregoing your race's one strength: melee speed. So I'd say TWC, hamstring, and MOC are the way to go.

So.

1x Armor
1x PF
2x TWC
2x Brawl
.5x MoC
2x Dodge
1x Arcane Symbols till around 12?
2x Lock
2x Perception
2x Disarm
2x Pickpocket

If not i'll drop pickpocketing. So I havnt played in awhile. Dont Gnomes have the highest Con, So shouldnt they carry the most?

[kookiegod]

Pickpocketing in todays GS is a waste of time and TPs. Yah, you might steal a few gems or wands, but the PvP and the time spent you could be doing another bounty.

2x brawling and 2x twc let you flail like a whirling dervish plus the MOC pretty fast. Just start buying and working on some perfects and searching out high end brawlers.

Could be fun.

~Paul

[grossm]

If not i'll drop pickpocketing. So I havnt played in awhile. Dont Gnomes have the highest Con, So shouldnt they carry the most?

While gnomes may have a healthy CON bonus, they have an equally unhealthy STR bonus and are one of the "small" races, so no, they do not carry the most. In fact, they carry the least, along with halflings. No idea what exact encumbrance limits are, but I do know that both gnomes and halflings are at the bottom of the barrel. I'd say you can expect to carry maybe 2 moderately-sized boxes before your encumbrance starts to become a problem.

I second that stealing is a waste of time and TPs and I'd even expand that to include picking and disarming, but if its an RP choice I don't want to be the one to discourage you from it. The same goes for your race. Pretty much any race and profession combination is mechanically viable, along with almost any reasonably well-rounded training path. That said, here is my recommendation for your core training as a rogue, operating under the assumption that you are dead-set on brawling:

1x Armor until a minimum of 30 ranks for brig
2x Brawl
2x Dodge minimum
1x CM minimum
1x PF
2x Ambush
2x Hiding

With the stat placement I suggested earlier, you're starting with 45/42 TP per level. The above training leaves you with an additional 9/26 per level. From there add either 1x Shield for 4/0 TP or 2x TWC for a total of 6/6 level. This leaves you a minimum of an additional 3/19 TP per level for specialization or auxiliary and utility skills. Note that using edged instead of brawling will free up an additional 3 PTP per level.

Train MOC when you can. Important early thresholds are 5 ranks for 2 unfocused strikes, 15 ranks for 3 unfocused strikes, and 30 ranks for two focused strikes (double the number of strikes and some additional RT for TWC). Feel free to train this in large blocks, ie. 5 ranks ASAP, then wait until you have the points to go all the way up to 30 ranks, etc ... this will allow you to front-load other skills like extra dodge and CM ranks early on.

For a long-term look, following my suggestions will net you the following by level 29:

A full 1x in Armor (30 ranks for brig), CM, and PF
A full 2x in Brawling, TWC, Ambush, Dodging, Disarming, Picking, Hiding, and Perception
5 ranks of MOC for 2 unfocused strikes (that's 4 swings with TWC), 20 ranks of Arcane Symbols, and 2 ranks of Harness Power, with 87 MTP left over to convert for things like climbing, swimming, extra CM, extra MOC, etc.

For CM training I'd recommend hamstring ASAP for a good knock-down (small races can't ambush the head of a lot of critters unless they are prone), but you may want surge to help with carrying additional loot.

After 29 I'd drop armor unless you feel like you're taking a serious beating, then start moving extra TPs into more MOC and CM. Alternatively, you could start thinking about spell research for lock and trap lores to boost your picking skills.

I'd still recommend not picking and using those points for extra CM and MOC to assist with total melee annihilation. If you drop picking and disarming, you save 6/6 per level (6/9 if you also drop perception), which you can use to bring CM up to 2x or MOC up to 1x.

[Endlin]

I've said it in like 6 different threads now...

If you're not going to hide and ambush.. Why are you bothering being a rogue?

Be a bard, learn to pick and have a much better AS plus all sorts of other shit.

Hell be a ranger and don't hide or ambush and spke everything in the face..

Be a warrior and learn to disarm and bash everythig open..

But there is absolutely no benefit to being a swinging rogue and NOT hiding and ambushing. The reason bards and fairy paladins get a much higher AS than us is because we're expected to hide and ambush and get pushdown. If we, rogues, choose not to do those things, we're just shooting ourselves in the foot.

Edit: Brig is for empaths and bards. You're a rogue, at least get up to some chain. Especially if you manage to make it past level 30 without hiding or ambush, stopping at brig is a really stupid idea.

Also.. Placing stats for maximum growth is a waste of time. You probably won't ever cap. And if you do.. You'll be able to get a fix stat.

[Widgets]

Why is that?

Burghal Gnomes get bonuses to manuever checks/dodge.

They are better meant for Rogues...When concerning both Gnome races...Forest were meant more so for Rangers.

And if you need help doing a Gnome build, by all means send me a PM, I am like the only guy who ever liked Gnomes as rogues.

[Endlin]

I'm actually all for playing one of the less popular races. So good luck.

We have enough fucking elves.

[Belnia]

I'm all for some variety too, but the encumbrance issues for gnomes and halflings are just really, really un-fun in the extreme.

[Endlin]

I'm all for some variety too, but the encumbrance issues for gnomes and halflings are just really, really un-fun in the extreme.

Yeah.. I wouldn't pick a gnome either but... More power to ya for trying it.